...Goodness.
That was a year ago.
More likely than not, it was a joke...
...and if I am to remember what context that post had, if any at all, it was probably talking about a Sonic mirror match; and if that is the case, then there's no counterpick. Not back then, and certainly not now where there is more knowledge, and the skill level of every Sonic as ascended to such a point that it matters not (at least it shouldn't).
Not only is Sonic flexible on every stage, but it's a mirror match. What could one Sonic possibly abuse that the other couldn't? Player habits? That sort of thing is not bound to the character and for that it has no relevance on the mirror matchup.
... How does one begin to make a write-up for this matchup?
I may as well take a shot at it, using the old format...
Chis, get ready to put a new entry. It's time that this thread finally get updated with something, and it may as well be with a contribution I can make now that there's only so much I can do with a local community that's died off (At least I plan to resurrect it in the (soon?) future).
I'm going to slightly change the format though, I think it works better for the guideline I am working with. Bare with me, and criticism for this write-up is certainly welcomed amongst the veterans and hard-thinkers alike.
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Sonic:
Introduction: The Sonic ditto/mirror matchup. No matter what you call it, it's probably the most difficult, if not awkward matchup you may ever play in your competitive career.
Why? In essence, your opponent is you. He has the same tools; which means the same strengths, the same weaknesses, the same possibilities, and the same... Well, you get the point. Everything you can do, your opponent can do, and perhaps better. Or worse.
In theory, this matchup is suppose to be dead-even. In reality, there's no way to accurately calculate the effort you'll have to put in to get a win in this kind of battle.
Behavior: Out of all the possible combinations you could mix and match in Brawl, there's just no way to look at this particular match from a completely objective view and be able to draw any rational conclusion.
The only thing that separates you and your opponent is the playstyle. If you want to know how to counter a playstyle, you may as well look at a Sonic guide that talks about such different ways that the character programmed into this game can be played.
And then toss that mindset out the window.
Sonic is a character that lives off punishment, all the while staying uncommitted to his approaches. That's the general gist of this character, and that alone allows Sonic (the character) to be played in a multitude of ways. Amongst different Sonics (the players), playstyles will vary from the most conserved; playing by the book, to the most radical; objective analysis is null with them.
Neither of the extreme playstyles can be predicted though, despite the implication given by the former. A sonic who plays by the book is bound to do everything and anything 100% right and leave you will very little options due to the opponent playing absolutely safe. On the other hand, somebody who tends to experiment more with the abstract varieties will reap more rewards from their actions; and while the risks are still minimal, they're worth it.
A perfect hybrid mix of the two is probably the mark of the best Sonic player on this Earth. Neither extreme cannot in theory; or practice, succeed due to the not-so-obvious, but still just-as-gashing flaws in their gameplay.
Anybody that is well-versed with this character reading this will understand that Sonic as a character wasn't granted the luxury of some other characters to have any one good obvious option to abuse at any one given time, and will realize that there is only so much Sonic can do on his own before the player controlling the character will have to outperform the opponent in order to claim victory. However, Sonic was given enough that a player willing to put the effort into it can, and will come out on top of every hurdle thrown their way.
How does one face an opponent who has the same undying determination to go through with playing a mirror matchup knowing that such an opposing mindset cannot easily be dwindled?
How to Win: That question every player asks themselves time and time again, but especially now the answer becomes so blurred that only through enough experimentation and trial & error can a conclusion be drawn.
This becomes not a place or time to think about how the characters are paired, but rather, conflicting playstyles of the opponents behind the characters. It is ultimately up to you to know Sonic's options beforehand, adapt to the stimuli your opponent gives you, and answer accordingly.
A perfect mirror watch would always end in a stalemate or a tie. Both "perfect" Sonics would acknowledge that committing the first act may put them at the disadvantage, and would thus respect each others' options and never approach.
This is not to be confused with high or top level play between two persons who are skilled with the one character. To some degree, the matches will take a long time, but this is where the theorycrafting stops.
Humans are flawed, and make mistakes. This is where the battle starts to take course, and it is from the point mistakes are made that a victor shall be decided.
Not always is the aggressor at a disadvantage. For other matchups this would apply moreso, or not at all; but in a mirror match, both players will know the best way to approach their character and as the match continues to drag out, figure out ways to approach
their rival.
It truly is a battle of wits.
Commonly used moves: Sonic as a character has moves with uses at certain given times. Some options will become more apparent than others at times. As a note, he always has an answer to your response. It becomes emphasized in this matchup being that everything becomes a risk; even doing
nothing.
The following is to be used as a rough guideline. Nothing here can be taken literally and be applied with great success. At the same time though, it might just give you the edge you need over your opponent, it all depends on who it is. You are expected to have an idea of which of Sonic's moves are used when, how, where, and why. You are also expecting your opponent to know/expect this too, and as a match is played out, expectations are set lower an and lower until a winner is decided.
Bair - Sonic's most versatile aerial attack. It kills, it walls, it pressures, it racks up damage, and in certain situations sets up for combos/strings. There isn't much that can be done about this attack if used properly.
Uair - Another formidable aerial. Any non-equipped attacks cannot answer to the range + agility that this attack possesses. Set-ups for strings with the first hit and if the second hit doesn't come out or connect. Virtually no cooldown lag from a short-hop, minor cooldown lag otherwise, and only minor landing lag. Mistiming can lead into minimal to heavy punishment.
Fair - The last aerial that you should be consciously aware of. It comes out fast, can slip in through shields and poke; especially on platforms, and manages to rack up some okay damage. Getting the heavy landing lag can lead to considerable punishment, can be SDI'd out of for quick aerial punishment, and most of the time will not rack up anymore than 8% even though it is capable to get 14% damage fresh; all the while stile having some cooldown lag even without receiving the previous-mentioned heavy landing lag.
Spin Dash - Sonic's "defensive" special attack. It has invincibility upon release, and can be used to counterattack. Can be jump-canceled with a double jump or go into VSDJ from its grounded charge. On hit, poorly set-ups up into combo attacks. Takes a fairly long time to charge, very weak regardless of charge, and the Spindash roll takes a while to come out and a low charge will have this move both roll out slowly and deal even lower damage.
Spin Charge - Sonic's "offensive" special attack. The aerial version possess a unique multi-hit property and works very well for racking up damage, setting up combos, and at higher percents/no decay, kills. Can be shield-canceled upon landing and double-jump canceled, and on block has a couple of ways to make this move avoid punishment assuming the opponent guesses wrong. Low range keeps this move mainly as an attack used to punish, even though more often than not it's used as an approach.
Spring Jump - Comes with more than just a spring coil. Equipped with a lot of gimmicks, there are a lot of things to mention about this one move alone. Used to complicate predicting of landing, guarantee recovery, meddle with the opponents' head, and to make Sonic just slightly harder to punish on his way down back to the ground. Can be used anytime Sonic is in the air and isn't in his Spring-Jump animation (that means it can be used as a follow-up from Spindash Jump and because the opponent usually doesn't expect a Spring, the spring coil projectile hits a lot of opponents after the first attack gets blocked/shielded). Improperly used can lead into devastating punishment, if not self-destructs.
DTilt - Quick attack on the ground meant to be used for a variety of things but loses utility as the opponent gets higher up in damage. Sets up into combos/chains, used as a quick counterattack, and can somewhat keep a shielding opponent pressured. Improperly spaced on block lead into punishment; whiffs moreso.
FTilt - Yet another quick attack on the ground meant to serve specific purposes at certain moments. Does 11% fresh if both the torso and leg hits connect, Sonic's safest + fastest ground attack, and with reasonable cooldown. Not enough to avoid quick, long-ranging punishment however.
Dash attack - A far-reaching, fairly quick attack that will occasionally set-up into strings/follow-ups, camp landings, and occasionally sneak in places. Fairly unsafe on block (unless it hits immediately as the first hitbox comes out and hits the back of the opponents shield(in most cases)), and at low percents usually leads into being punished.
Not-so Commonly used moves:
Homing Attack - Only guaranteed good as a way to stall recovery and give Sonic an extra vertical/horizontal boost in recovery. Serves as a very situational mix-up and does 8% on hit fresh. The start-up on this lag is too much for it to be used from a combo string; but that's why it's "situational." It works on opponent who aren't expecting it, and usually don't because they know that this move is bad and it shouldn't be used for much of anything. The cooldown is equally abysmal and makes this move a high risk, medium reward (if even that) type of move.
UTilt - The anti-aerial. Comes out before a normal human can react to it, does 14% fresh if all hits connect, can be used to pressure/poke opponents on platforms, and serves as a back-up/desperation killer. Unfortunately, it lacks horizontal range, has a hefty amount of cooldown, and must be used sparingly.
FSmash - Sonic's strongest kill move in terms of knockback. Comes out somewhat slowly and the cooldown is something to scoff at (for them). 14% damage uncharged fresh, 20% charged fresh. Mainly used (correctly) as a punisher, and less often properly used to punish a predicted action. High risk, high reward. "Deceptive" range, with deceptive being a loose term thrown in. Unsafe on block.
DSmash - Second strongest kill move in Sonic's arsenal. Equally as slow to come out as forward smash, this move posses more utility at a slight price of the degree of "presence" its utility has. Used to punish a landing, has hitboxes that stay out for a relatively long time, and is for the most part safe due to the low cooldown on the last part of the hitboxes, and has nice shield pushback/shieldstun from the first parts. A quick, long-reaching attack can be used to counterattack from block with some success. Nothing too bad about this attack when used correctly.
USmash - A sparingly used move meant to challenge/respond to aerial approaches upon release with its one(?) invincibility frame and disjointed hitbox that encases Sonic. May be used to rack up damage, but if the move whiffs it leads into heavy punishment, and if blocked is not that much better off. Pressures a shielding opponent on a platform, if not shieldpokes them. Can be used to camp landing situationally thanks to Sonic's blend of movement speed and traction. Mediocre damage even if all hits connect, and charged.
Dair - A quick way for Sonic to get somewhere below him. Does 6% fresh, has a hitbox around his foot, and possess a stall-then-fall property that can be used every now and then to throw off an opponent that intended to punish Sonic's "proposed" landing site. Can lead to somewhat heavy punishment if predicted, and getting the heavy cooldown lag with this attack makes it even moreso unsafe to use with an opponent nearby. The attack is usually used with a different intention aside from direct attack and is mainly used to keep the opponent guessing with him in the air.
Nair -A quick but low-ranged attack with a considerable amount of animation frames. Racks up 11% damage fresh and if the first hitbox connects. Can be used to set-up strings, and sometimes used as a finisher from a combo/string. Can kill if fresh and the opponent is at a high percent. Reasonable landing lag. Average move.
Ledge get-up >100% - Two hit attack that sometimes pokes opponents/shields waiting for you at the edge of the stage with invincibility. If blocked however, the resulting punishment afterwards becomes especially hard-hitting due to the stage boundary closely behind you. Use with extreme caution. It may be worth noting that the first hitbox has an unusual property with the angle it sends the opponent at; which in most cases is towards Sonic so that it leads into the second hit; when the second hit doesn't connect strange things happen.
Ledge get-up <100% - Nothing too special. Comes out fast with invincibility, and does slightly below-average damage. Not safe on block. High risk, low-medium reward.
Recommended stages: Go wherever you are more comfortable on, or the stage your opponent plays worse on. It's a mirror matchup, anything about a stage you pick, your opponent can abuse the same things too. Any stage hazard that isn't there, neither of you can take advantage of, or be taken advantage of.
Matchup verdict: gdjgnzuhuipznhurzhnurhnu0hurpheryje
That's the only thing that will be on your mind after this. You were probably already insane before, but after this, you will be.
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Yep. Definitely looking forward to any criticism from other people. I also specifically left out some information like Sonic being cypher-gimped because I am assuming high-top level play in my write-up, which as we all know it rarely, if never has the opportunity present itself. I'm also real skeptical of my write-ups for specific attacks, and how to counter them from there. I'd really like some input on how I could make it better, and without any input I have to assume I did a goodjob/the best possible job that could be done.
The matchup verdict I left as is because once again I've been working at this for a bit and after some time there's just really no way for me to have sum it up in a short manner. Anybody who can help is highly encouraged to tell me how to fix it/put a more proper closing in. Try to avoid more gibberish/spam though, it's already obvious it's quite difficult, no need for "confirmation" posts.
I'd also really appreciate it if anybody can tell me anything I left out/should add into the guide. Many thanks for reading! I really hope this helps out anybody that (still?) plans on playing this matchup out. I am a bit sad to see how so many from this community despise this matchup, but I suppose I can see where they are coming from.
I personally love it, being able to see what different things I can learn from, and the pursuit of knowledge is worth it to me in the end, no matter the procedure it's acquired from.
Also, while I'm not forcing anybody to play a certain way, I encourage more of you to try to go through with this. Yes, I know it's boring; yes, I know it's hard, but then again, so is Sonic. and this is just one more matchup. You may have trouble with Meta Knight, Lucario, Olimar, Pikachu, Snake, Marth, whoever.
Okay, I think I'm done with the motivational speech. I don't know how else to put it, or how to put it better. Do work, get work done, you're all doing a great job, you got this,
I still think we have a ways to go but regardless, yada yada yada. Moar Sawnik dittoz dammit!
