Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[ROOOOY!]

I wouldn't say that Sonic is at all as mobile as Squirtle in the air. Sonic's aerial acceleration is horrible, one of the worst in the game. Sure, spinshot is good for mobility from long range, but from mid to close range if Sonic needs to go aerial against a character with a good aerial game he really suffers.

 

[Kinzer]

Rawr, feel like taking this over Wi-Fi then? I must warn you that my Sonic is no walk-in-the-park though, especially not if you're going to play Ivysaur.

Also don't quote my whole post, shave just the part that pertains to you so we can save some space on the interwebs.



Edit: Eh, well Sonic's air game is decent just because of his acceleration, but he does have the 6th fastest speed in the game.

Also Steeler, what kind of game does Squirtle play, Sonic's punishment game might be dimmed down, but it's always there, and I'm pretty sure Squirtle needs to get hits on just as much as Sonic does as well.

 

[da K.I.D.]

against ivy, its basic hit and run manuvers his lag in starting and ending (mostly ending) his moves are just too great

against squirtle, we are taller than him, which means longer arms and legs, which means more priority.
i dont think many people actually try to outprioritise ppl with sonic in the few situations that he can pull it off. and since people dont try to out range squirtle im kinda feeling that people dont play the match right, and playing the matchup wrong isnt how match numbers are made.

and charizard... eff that lizard, ill camp him to all hell...

and his last two posts are why we shouldnt let EMZ speak...

 

[~TBS~]

i heard from Tenki that Charizard is very susceptible to aerials...It still isnt that easy, though...

 

[Browny]

if you want to know why i think sonic is so good against Ivy, Check Djbrowny's sig.

Quoted for... idk. The spring also works very well if you make it hit on the outside edge so it stagespikes too

and his last two posts are why we shouldnt let EMZ speak...

QFT. Btw which way do you DI squirtles dthrow of doom lol. I figure no DI at all is safer at the very edge of the stage but DI down everywhere else?

2,500th post :D

 

[Kinzer]

Right, due to Charizard's huge hurtbox, he is combo food for Sonic

Trouble is, you won't be getting those combos off too often. If Charizard were his own character, he's be in mid-tier for sure.

Fun-Fact, Charizards "get-up" roll is horrible.

 

[~TBS~]

Its too slow?
(obvious reference is obvious)

the best i got on a charizard was fair to fair into ASC cancel to fair.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Its too slow?
(obvious reference is obvious)

the best i got on a charizard was fair to fair into ASC cancel to fair.

That's a manner of putting it, I won't lie I would lose hands down as Charizard. I won't say that Ivy has a better match up to Sonic but I'd say that they are equal.

 

[Steeler]

the problem is that every pt has a different skill level with the three pokemon. my ivysaur is pretty mediocre, for example. it's hard to do matchup discussions without getting three people with different preferences in on the convo.

i've heard that you should DI the dthrow up, but it would seem to me like that'd just kill you vertically a little sooner...

regardless, i play very, very safe with my dthrow when i want to kill. it is squirtle's most important attack. ie never use it below a certain percent and always facing the closest boundary. assuming i'm not fatigued, squirtle should usually kill sonic below 150%. near the edge, the throw can kill at about 120%.

if i'm fatigued, then i just want to switch.

you know, if sonic tries to play near the middle of the stage, squirtle will have a tough time killing with dthrow...killing sonic is my biggest issue with squirtle here, but you can work around it by switching out early so that ivysaur can KO, or even switch to charizard for an even more potent killer.

55:45 is fine with me, 60:40 might be pushing it a bit. even 5:5 as is may be fine...although i think squirtle combined with ivysaur/charizard at the end of sonic's stock has the same effect as a 60:40 does...as could ivysaur at low percent (less comboable than zard) switched to zard after the mid point of the stock because ivysaur's biggest problem is not getting gimped. zard hardly has that problem.

 

[Kinzer]

Mrgh... somebody help me out here, what numbers should I be putting down for the ratios... I would be lying if I said I just want to go with my ratios and move on, but...

GAH!

 

[ROOOOY!]

Steeler, throw some numbers at us. What do you think is reasonable?

 

[Steeler]

ok so individually...

[Charizard 55/45 Sonic]
<Sonic 55/45 Ivysaur>

seem to be pretty well agreed upon.

Squirtle...i think squirtle's range is from 5/5 to 6/4 his advantage. 6/4 is pushing it a bit for individual. both 5/5 and 55/45 are pretty good. doesn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things.

so let's suppose (Squirtle 55/45 Sonic).

k the above is just individual...you have to take into account switching strategies.

for example, ivy can do a pretty solid job of stage spacing and KOing. however, its biggest weak is gimpage.

charizard can space, he can rack up damage, he can KO. but at low percents, combos allow sonic to keep pace with charizard, percentage wise.

so...ivysaur is less susceptible to combos than charizard is (and squirtle even moreso) while charizard has a great recovery that is difficult to gimp. put 'em together and it's greater than the sum of their parts. a ivysaur/charizard stock could very well have a 6/4 advantage. mixing squirtle in at the beginning of the stock is even more potent since squirtle does a tad bit better than ivy does and is difficult to combo.

overall, {Pokemon Trainer 60/40 Sonic} is pretty plausible.

 

[Tenki]

@Ivy part:
Ivysaur is kinda weird.

It has really powerful attacks that can demolish your defensive moves (predicted airdodge/roll/spotdodge <<< U-air/U-smash/'early' bullet seed [first part doesn't hit]).

Its aerials have really little landing lag (at least, N-air and B-air do). B-air is amazing at defensive spacing/countering, but only for the sake of throwing you off-balance, since its damage and knockback is pathetic. F-tilt is kind of similar in that regard as well, but I think it might be kinda punishable out of shield if you release as soon as it finishes.

Powerful punishers, weak... everything else lol.

I really wish I could learn to space better with Ivysaur, since a few setups here and there would mean more ivy paunchs and as;dlkjvz;lxdjkfa from my opponents.

i heard from Tenki that Charizard is very susceptible to aerials...It still isnt that easy, though...

I don't think that was me.

I played with one Charizard specialist though. It was pretty ****.

lol he'd go full out switch to Charizard every time he died, regardless of if I smashed or grabbed him (you're not launching a Squirtle/Ivy off-stage from center stage at 0-20% >__>). Charizard's aerial game can be pretty nice at pressuring and stuff. I can only wish I could D-air and F-air as good as that guy, but I just don't feel comfy with it XD

i've heard that you should DI the dthrow up, but it would seem to me like that'd just kill you vertically a little sooner...

It depends where you are. If you're near the edge and being sent away from the stage, then DI up is your best choice. If you're being sent the opposite way and you're at a higher %, you're better off either horizontal (same direction as throw) DI or no DI at all, and try to go for the corner.

 

[Toby.]

It really depends on how you can work in the switch though. If you are doing it mid stock like that you need to get sonic away for a decent time, which can be particularly difficult with his crazy movement speed. Although his slow aerial speed probably makes the ol' dthrow at the edge as useful as ever. Probably.

Thoughts?

 

[Steeler]

dthrow and dsmash for squirtle. maybe dair. you have to get sonic horizontal in the air. fsmash as well. it does have super armor. ummm a fresh fair at about 100%.

i'd say 85% is when dthrow will give enough time to switch, give or take 10%.

 

[Tenki]

Well one thing that you can't count on for safe switching is U-throw/on-stage D-throw. Sonic's D-air gets to the floor faster than Pikachu's Thunder, and more likely than not, he'll be doing it from a height so it 'finishes' / has an IASA landing.

I'm not sure about off-stage though. He might be able to pull off a spinshot (fast moving instant double jump) > D-air from high. But I've actually never thought of doing it when playing against PT lol.

 

[Steeler]

oh and when fatigued, add about 20% to the switch percent figures.

add bthrow to the list for squirtle, good knockback, good to use to toss sonic off stage to switch. it's all about getting sonic off stage. switching should only take 2-3 seconds on a good wii.

hey, does sonic hate playing on norfair? sonic has to be in the air a lot there...squirtle and ivysaur benefit greatly, charizard takes a slight hit though. free switches when the lava comes up!

 

[Kinzer]

Rawr, Sonic can do just okay taking the battle to the air, we've kind of learned to space better now and etc.

 

[Steeler]

defeats haunter, shellder, and all other pokemon handily

just look at him

it's like he's taunting you, tempting you

what a badass

 

[Zephramrill]

lol at being mentioned as one of the best PTs pages ago. Im probably Canada's best PT but AD, Reflex and Typh are years ahead of everyone else.

Steeler and I are both squirtle specialists thats all --'

Anyways this has to be 55/45 - 60/40 because you really only have to use Ivysaur for like 20 seconds at a time or could just skip her altogether and take 20 damage at the beginning of a life.

 

[SuSa]

Ivy specialist here if anyone wants to get some matchup experience.

Squirtle's on par with most average peeps, and my Charizard will get *****, so if you want actual GOOD experience, let me switch out my Charizard. (he's good, but... horrid at the same time -_- I have my days with him where I ****, then ones where he's horrid)

May take 1-2 rounds for my Ivy to warm up, its been a while. Random doesn't like PT.

1 :mewtwo: 431

 

[Jim Morrison]

I wanna play a PT

 

[thecatinthehat]

yeah, Im up for some PT experience.

 

[SuSa]

It seems my squirtle and charizard switched placed when I brawled (Chis?)...

My squirtle was getting *****, and my charizard was on par.

How strange.

Anyways, added both of you. Let me know when you're ready.

1 :mewtwo: 335 Created using PokeScript - by Havokk

 

[Jim Morrison]

I ready I ready (In 1 minute)

 

[SuSa]

ggs Cat, had me on my toes a lot.

Gf2tw, host.

1 :mewtwo: 334 Created using PokeScript - by Havokk

 

[thecatinthehat]

Your Ivy's a monster.

 

[SuSa]

Why thank you. : )

1 :mewtwo: 333 Created using PokeScript - by Havokk

 

[Jim Morrison]

Hausted, Havok

 

[thecatinthehat]

Well I got the gist of what he's capable of, Ivysaur.

But which way am I supposed to DI for his Bullet Seed?

That move's a *****.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Up, Up, Up!

 

[~TBS~]

Ivy? tough match right there.
I would DI left or right, depending on where I am at. You WILL take damage still, but its better than getting 40+ damage...
DIing up is good, too.

 

[SuSa]

What is with you and counterpick stages... lol ggs

lunchtime

@catinthehat

DI up/left or up-/right depending what side your closer to.

When you expect it, try to SDI towards the other side of Ivy, and the move may miss you completely...

Go for gimps more, bthrow me off, use spring, etc.

From the 3 sonics I've faced I'd say its:

60/40 Ivysaur
55/45 Charizard
--/-- Squirtle (didn't really use him often :3 but its really just a matter of who has control, I'd be willing to rate this 50/50 or 55/45 Squirtle...


1 :mewtwo: 332 Created using PokeScript - by Havokk

 

[Jim Morrison]

Laaame, Ivysaur has too much range Counterpick just owns.

 

[SuSa]

That flipee stage is a deathcall for Ivysaur.

She can't tether some of the ledges.

The stage itself just owns me though... when it flips, I get screwed up. Those platforms like saving you, but raising themselves to let me die.

It was BS. lol

1 :mewtwo: 331 Created using PokeScript - by Havokk

 

[Jim Morrison]

Don't base rating much of me, I am likely to be worst of the 3. I wanna face you again, but for a reaally long time and play tons of chars o.O

 

[SuSa]

I main Random so that'll work.

Just let me go make my lunch and eat.

Then I'll go my main on you. (Random)

My PT is rusty :/ lol

1 :mewtwo: 330 Created using PokeScript - by Havokk

 

[Jim Morrison]

I don't really main random, but I don't have a main :O I play a weak everyone, but at least I play them.

 

[SuSa]

Focus on the ones you like.

I just happen to like them all.

Host if you want to go up against my Random.

1 :mewtwo: 329 Created using PokeScript - by Havokk

 

[Jim Morrison]

HOSTED, for great justice