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Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

What is Sonic's worst match up?


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
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Yeah, I'm with KID on this one.

I mean, if I went into the Mario boards for example and said they were all dumb, then said that the match-up is in Sonic's favour because I've never lost against a Mario and Sonic outranges Mario they'd all think that I'd gone snooker-loopy. It'd probably get a few reactions.
 

Mister E

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so this post is flaming, flaming, player skill, misinformation about sonic's LOLpriority, and johns for his poor behavior

and you people expect me not to react...

eff that.

ill give you all the respect in the world, if you act right, but this post deserves the comment it got from me, we dont want people like this inputting in our matchups anyway
Look... i said PERSONAL attacks... if you feel me saying that a disccusion is annoying is a personal attack well then sorry... If you feel that me saying that many of you didn't have an idea what you were talking about was personal then i'm sorry... i didn't quote ANYONE of the persons saying something that was completely wrong.... and No i don't missunderstand his Priority since Pound and Nair outbeat pretty much everything...
 

da K.I.D.

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so flaming an entire board is ok, but singling somebody out isnt?

and i posted already about the fact that sonic has no move that he should be trying to out prioritise pound with.

but i think n air loses to sonic upsmash, but i dont know for sure, i do know that it beats her back air and f air. im pretty sure it beats her n air and down air as well
 

Kinzer

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...Then I suppose I don't recall any Jiggly playas that gave me much trouble offstage...

...Then again, I always try to save my DJ for emergencies, which is pretty nice since ASC is usually enough to cancel knockback momentum and gets me back onstage fast and far enoguh where I won't usually need to use it.

As for the Jiggly Mr. E, I don't blame him, I hate matchup discussion when the other character boards are just unreasonable. I know where he comes from.

Not sure about Jiggly's Nair outprioritizing everything seeing as how we have things like Bair, but Pound is just sex in a button.
 

Mister E

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Well ok Nair doesn't outprioritice everything but it usally makes you unable to peform atacks.... you just need to rush into sonic rigth before his Backair hits him.... (Jiggs Nair Is alitle bit faster but Sonic's Bair outrange it xD)
 

Maniclysane

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This is a hard to discuss matchup, but it's in Sonics favor. 60:40 probably. The only matchup experience I have is against a Mario main who chose Sonic after losing to my Diddy. I don't know what his name was, or if his Sonic was good or not. I played his Sonic with my puff twice in friendlies and lost both, but they were close matches.

Sonic is fast, really fast. wtf wer did u go fast. Half time I pounded because it's a safe move he didn't seem to have many answers too. The other half, I nair'd and dair'd. Sonic is so **** fast I couldn't think quick enough to space enough bairs to get through him. So fuxing fast. The only rest I got on him was after (Sonic's) dair, which is practically his only move with lag, which the guy never really used.

The reason why this matchup feels like Sonic's favor, is the fact that he's so fast. He didn't need to go in the air that often, and I couldn't keep up with him. As soon as I ever got a couple hits on him he was already on the other side of the stage. The only thing I didn't have much of a problem with was his recovery. His recovery is good, and I couldn't prevent him from getting back to the stage, but I could keep him out there, off the stage for awhile and I could rack up damage. Sonic is light too, so rest kills him probably 80's, and fair probably kills around there too near the edges.

Sonic is in control during this matchup, and the only way I could put up a chance was to just spam my long lasting moves and hoped he ran into them. 60:40 Sonics favor. 35:65 at the worst.
 

Kinzer

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It's not a soft-counter, but I still agree with 6:4.

So yeah, Sonic is like in the middle of heavy/light FYI.

I would assume Fair could start killing at 110%.
 

Tenki

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What the hell!?

Sonic can't have advantages! D:

On the lolhomingattackwhilerecovering:
A knowledgeable Sonic will use side-B first (as it resets horizontal and vertical momentum, AND gives a hop with extra airspeed)... THEN save double jump until he's near the stage or in a 'safe' spring recovery position.

Now unless you hit him with a move that actually kills him, any hits from that point on aside from a spike or a semispike will put Sonic that DI's upwards in a position where he can reach up to halfway inside the stage with a spring jump.

As for rest, lol Sonic has alot of restable moves.

pretty much any aerial that he pulls that isn't autocanceled or gets shielded is restable. Arguably, if you have super matchup experience+reflexes, you could probably shield a Sonic F-air and jump rest in the 10-20 frame dead time after his F-air (though, I don't believe we have frame data for that part).

I'm not sure if it's possible to counter-rest F-air, but I'm somewhat sure you can rest a stale U-air, but only because it's possible to airdodge between the hits.

This is an disccusion which is really annoying... I'll just post a few words cuz obvously many of you have no idea what you're talking about... i've never lost to a Sonic player... i've played many, but never lost... he's extremely annoying but Jiggly does outprioritise him... I'm to tired to get into a figth with you so i'll just say what i think... 60-40/55:45 in Jiggs Favor...
There are many Sonic players.

There are few Sonic mains. People that actually keep up with our metagame and have an above-scrub level of general smash skill.
 

MrEh

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Stupidity aside, the decent Jiggs mains said they'd pop in soon.

Trust me, the Jiggs boards aren't usually this difficult to deal with. They're probably some of the most chill people here.><
 

PND

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Okay, I think it's about time a JBRoomer came in (and wish it would have been sooner, in retrospect)

Now, I don't have much Sonic experience. The only Sonic's I've played were Damax back at ToS5, and I play Infzy fairly consistently (But I usually pick Wario) but from what I have seen firsthand, and a healthy dose of theorycraft and other player's experience, I think I can see both sides of the argument. Mind you, there is always a bit of character bias in almost every post, but I will try and look at this objectively. (Try to :p)


Range. Jiggs range is poor, but I think you're underestimating her bair. It has surprising range, more so than our fair, if you can believe it. Sonic, however, has access to a few disjointed moves (uair comes to mind) that can stop us. Now, the inherent problem with these moves, is we will try our hardest to not be in position of them, to the point that you could control us knowing that fact. Now we're getting into mindgames, but chances are we won't be above you unless we're dair resting you. Do I think uair is unusable? HELL NO. Just bear in mind that we are going to be approaching you from an upwards angle, and we will do our best to never be above you unless we're waiting for spring vulnerability. You can try and exploit than mind set as you see fit. With the exception of these disjointed moves, our range is actually quite comparable. That's where maneuverability comes into effect.

See, that's the biggest thing about this matchup. On the ground, you completely outmaneuver us. To a ridiculous degree. In the air, it's the same boat, but reversed (obviously) Now, you will go in the air, we will go on the ground. We have to reset our jumps eventually, and almost any of our moves will pop you up into the air. Our WoPs can be screwed by your ridiculous running speed and pivots, but we can lay a brickwall bair cycle (which I love to do) to keep you away from punishing. We're pretty much at a stalemate as far as this goes, which quite frankly sucks for us, as we're used to constantly weaving, and I'm pretty sure you guys are in a similar boat. Well, what would swing this in any other favor if we're at a maneuverability stalemate?

Killz. That's what. Well, this can be broken down into two parts. One, our killing power. Two, our survivability. Our killing power is significantly above average. We are pretty much the definition of a glass cannon character. We can kill with fair at 90%+, your position depending, obviously. Our Fsmash can own a techchase/trip scenario, and our Dacus kills if fresh, but chances are that won't be able to hit in this matchup barring extreme mindgames. Rollout kills well before that, as does rest. Rollout is fairly hard to hit with, Rest isn't. Yes, you read that right. The thing about Rest, and this is really prevalent in this matchup, is it interrupts everything. Everything. With perfect reflexes, the only two moves that can't be rest countered are Shine and Rest itself. (I believe that's what Veril said.)

That's with perfect reflexes, but once the timing is learned for Sonic, his moves actually aren't very difficult to interrupt. I'll leave the details to Veril, but any multihit move can be rest interrupted. Any move where you extend your hurtbox with your hitbox can be rested. Unfortunately, that is a lot of your moveset (hilariously enough, Jiggs falls victim to herself in the same regard). If you're at killing percent, simply approaching us can be deadly. But I stress the "if you're at killing percent" part, and I'll return to that later.

Onto survivability. Surprisingly, Jiggs has fairly good horizontal survivability. In tourney settings, against high level players, I'll stress, I've had her live past 200%. Our dair is xrazy for Infzy DI, and our horizontal speed and acceleration allow us get back quickly. Now, obviously that limit WILL drop. But we don't die at 90% as everyone seems to think, in fact, I'd wager that we can kill you a heck of a lot earlier than you'll be able to kill us. Horizontally.

Vertical death is another situation entirely. Remember when I said that we'll be avoiding your uair at all cost? Well, that's because Uair is the move that will net you the early percent kills if you can nail it. Work on ways on hitting it, that's the key to beating us. Now, you have to balance using it and staling it, like many great moves, but I would recommend keeping it fresh and attempting to beat us by constant retreat and catching us in our retreat. This match will be very back and forth, constant traps in effect.

Now, here's the one thing I don't know, and would effect this a lot. I have no idea how much damage Sonic's moves do on an average hit. I know Jiggs, and I know that she does over 10% for every one of her most used moves. Considering we kill you at ~90% with a fresh fair, and I think ~75% with a Rest, that's 8 to 9 moves then a lost stock. Getting those moves will be a chore, but that's what I see. Mind you, these are using rough estimates and data supplied, I don't know the proper DI kill percents for Sonic on her moves. Take that data with a grain of salt.

Now, where does this lead?

This match is so back and forth, honestly, I call it neutral. It's all about the player, I feel the character strengths effectively eliminate each others'. I personally feel it's 55-45 Jiggs, and I concede that you probably think it's a similar ratio for Sonic. It is for that reason, taking into consideration what I know about both characters, that I would call this one dead neutral.

[/wall of pain text]
 

Tenki

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hooraaayy a jiggs main!

[1]Okay, I think it's about time a JBRoomer came in (and wish it would have been sooner, in retrospect)

[2] Range. Jiggs range is poor, but I think you're underestimating her bair. It has surprising range, more so than our fair, if you can believe it. Sonic, however, has access to a few disjointed moves (uair comes to mind) that can stop us. Now, the inherent problem with these moves, is we will try our hardest to not be in position of them, to the point that you could control us knowing that fact. Now we're getting into mindgames, but chances are we won't be above you unless we're dair resting you. Do I think uair is unusable? HELL NO. Just bear in mind that we are going to be approaching you from an upwards angle, and we will do our best to never be above you unless we're waiting for spring vulnerability. You can try and exploit than mind set as you see fit. With the exception of these disjointed moves, our range is actually quite comparable. That's where maneuverability comes into effect.

[3] See, that's the biggest thing about this matchup. On the ground, you completely outmaneuver us. To a ridiculous degree. In the air, it's the same boat, but reversed (obviously) Now, you will go in the air, we will go on the ground. We have to reset our jumps eventually, and almost any of our moves will pop you up into the air. Our WoPs can be screwed by your ridiculous running speed and pivots, but we can lay a brickwall bair cycle (which I love to do) to keep you away from punishing. We're pretty much at a stalemate as far as this goes, which quite frankly sucks for us, as we're used to constantly weaving, and I'm pretty sure you guys are in a similar boat. Well, what would swing this in any other favor if we're at a maneuverability stalemate?

[4] Killz. That's what. Well, this can be broken down into two parts. One, our killing power. Two, our survivability. Our killing power is significantly above average. We are pretty much the definition of a glass cannon character. We can kill with fair at 90%+, your position depending, obviously. Our Fsmash can own a techchase/trip scenario, and our Dacus kills if fresh, but chances are that won't be able to hit in this matchup barring extreme mindgames. Rollout kills well before that, as does rest. Rollout is fairly hard to hit with, Rest isn't. Yes, you read that right. The thing about Rest, and this is really prevalent in this matchup, is it interrupts everything. Everything. With perfect reflexes, the only two moves that can't be rest countered are Shine and Rest itself. (I believe that's what Veril said.)

[5] That's with perfect reflexes, but once the timing is learned for Sonic, his moves actually aren't very difficult to interrupt. I'll leave the details to Veril, but any multihit move can be rest interrupted. Any move where you extend your hurtbox with your hitbox can be rested. Unfortunately, that is a lot of your moveset (hilariously enough, Jiggs falls victim to herself in the same regard). If you're at killing percent, simply approaching us can be deadly. But I stress the "if you're at killing percent" part, and I'll return to that later.

[6] Onto survivability. Surprisingly, Jiggs has fairly good horizontal survivability. In tourney settings, against high level players, I'll stress, I've had her live past 200%. Our dair is xrazy for Infzy DI, and our horizontal speed and acceleration allow us get back quickly. Now, obviously that limit WILL drop. But we don't die at 90% as everyone seems to think, in fact, I'd wager that we can kill you a heck of a lot earlier than you'll be able to kill us. Horizontally.

Vertical death is another situation entirely. Remember when I said that we'll be avoiding your uair at all cost? Well, that's because Uair is the move that will net you the early percent kills if you can nail it. Work on ways on hitting it, that's the key to beating us. Now, you have to balance using it and staling it, like many great moves, but I would recommend keeping it fresh and attempting to beat us by constant retreat and catching us in our retreat. This match will be very back and forth, constant traps in effect.
...

[7] This match is so back and forth, honestly, I call it neutral. It's all about the player, I feel the character strengths effectively eliminate each others'. I personally feel it's 55-45 Jiggs, and I concede that you probably think it's a similar ratio for Sonic. It is for that reason, taking into consideration what I know about both characters, that I would call this one dead neutral.

[/wall of pain text]
[1] yeasssss

[2] Comments on Sonic's B-air? ;__;

[3] Spinshot maybe? Though personally I'd go for a shield > shield > punish deal, but that'd be me. I don't know exactly which movement pattern you'd be using in that situation, so it really depends on whether or not you're fully retreating or weaving.

[4] I think realistically, Jiggs kills Sonic earlier than we kill Jiggs. Vertical KO's are alot harder to land 9_9;

[5] Rest-counter is so awesome lol. And yeah, you can SDI out of F-air, too =p

[6] This one I have trouble swallowing. I did do some rudimentary kill% and DI testing a long time ago and found that Jigglypuff was significantly better at surviving horizontally, surviving up to 20-25% earlier than what would be suggested by her vertical weight - but this was without testing breaking momentum with anything. However, I think the deal with surviving up to 200% is most likely because your opponent(s) didn't know and staled their kill moves a bit too early.

[7] I also thought it was 55:45 jiggs/neutral. But the last good Jigglypuff I played was over the summer, but it was on wifi, and even that was kind of a while X_x;
 

PND

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Out of order, in order of stream of consciousness

6) Past 200% was on a Peach (NikoK? It might have been Arsenic or Bentobox) and a ROB (Buenob) and it doesn't happen often, but it does happen. However I can get her to the 160% range consistently.

2) Oh, bair. Bair has great range, but it's very telegraphed. Not so much, as say Zelda or Ike's, but I usually position myself just under / over where it would hit if I'm nailing you from behind. (Sexual innuendo implied)

3) If you shield the first hit and we're high, we'll jump higher out of the way. If you shhield as we're landing it will shield poke. If you don't shield, you're hit. If we miss, we'll probably land with bair and regenerate our jumps

7) I think those numbers are correct as well. But a good Jiggs is rare. Just like I like my steak :laugh:

(That's a lie. I'm a vegetarian. And when I did eat steak, way back when, I liked it well done >_>)
 

da K.I.D.

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this is going to be hard because as rare as good sonics and jiggs are, its hard to find someone who actually plays the match consistently. i think the closest thing we have is me playing against Xiivi, but thats not conclusive either...
 

Tenki

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I'm going to say this again, just because I love saying it.

Jigg's Fair is stronger then Bowser's Fair.
My main point was that even though hypothetically, Sonic can pull a star KO on you at 70-80%, but it will most likely go down to baiting for an edge-game/F-smash, or maybe even a U-tilt if you're at 130%+.

;/

2) Oh, bair. Bair has great range, but it's very telegraphed. Not so much, as say Zelda or Ike's, but I usually position myself just under / over where it would hit if I'm nailing you from behind. (Sexual innuendo implied)

3) If you shield the first hit and we're high, we'll jump higher out of the way. If you shhield as we're landing it will shield poke. If you don't shield, you're hit. If we miss, we'll probably land with bair and regenerate our jumps
[2] Well, the thing is we're most likely going to be spacing with B-air than U-air. If it trades, then at least we get a good damage output. I don't believe the positioning will be much of an issue because both players will be performing that - and Sonic will most likely be trying to B-air you in case you approach/float inside.

[3]I'm not buying the shield-poke comment x.x; it's not like we're standing still and holding shield lol. I meant more along the terms of tapping shield while walking/running.

Any comments on spinshot vs Jiggs?

video, in case you don't know what we're talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XPazo3otHo

what % does uthrow kill jiggs at lol?
I think around 170% on FD with no DI, earlier or +- the same for forward DI, probably around 190% with good DI.

U-tilt star KO's jiggs at... around 130% with no DI and around 165-170% with correct DI.

I believe if Jigglypuff DI's B-air upwards, you can kill with a fresh B-air at around 120-130% if you catch her with a sweetspot B-air in midair.

Again, not taking attack/momentum stopping into account.
 

PND

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2) Pound will beat it. Takes a bit foresight and willingness to commit, though. I'd also dair or ff uair as a reactionary. The dair can be beat by your Uair, though, so you can easily delay your move and nail us if we attempt it. When I see Sonic's back to me, I generally try to get low.

3) Nah, I mean if you walk and shield and bair will sweep right under the shield, provided the shield has any damage done to it. (It doesn't need to be low, just a bit below full) I use it all the time. If I misspace though, I've landed and you're ready. Which is bad ;_;

Spinshot: To be honest, I've never seen that before. I think that explains a bit of what Infzy's done to me, before. :laugh: I can see how that would **** with our spacing. Are you a constant hitbox during it?
 

da K.I.D.

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the only thing i have to say is i hope jiggs doesnt get mindgamed into a f smash.

cus some thing that good sonics do is to charge f smash when they want you to dodge, and fsmash charged for the duration of a spotdoge will kill at 100 as opposed to 110-120 cus when you dont expect it, you forget to DI and stuff kills just that much sooner.
 

Tenki

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[2] Well, pound's a given. I meant Sonic's B-air vs Jigglypuff's other aerials... lol

[3] >_>... well, okay. fine. noshieldtilts. final destination.

@spinshot:

It's just an instant double jump, and we can perform it in midair as well.

There's no hitbox on it at all, We're free to b-air, spring, side-B, HA once in a while (lol screw your spacing, we fall upwards), N-air, etc.

edit: and airdodge.
 

Veril

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Okay, I think it's about time a JBRoomer came in (and wish it would have been sooner, in retrospect)...The thing about Rest, and this is really prevalent in this matchup, is it interrupts everything. Everything. With perfect reflexes, the only two moves that can't be rest countered are Shine and Rest itself. (I believe that's what Veril said.)

That's with perfect reflexes, but once the timing is learned for Sonic, his moves actually aren't very difficult to interrupt. I'll leave the details to Veril, but any multihit move can be rest interrupted. Any move where you extend your hurtbox with your hitbox can be rested. Unfortunately, that is a lot of your moveset (hilariously enough, Jiggs falls victim to herself in the same regard). If you're at killing percent, simply approaching us can be deadly.
Ah Sonic. Absolutely wrecks the unprepared.

The rest stuff: Here's a short primer on what PNDMike is trying to get across (since I'm sorta the rest guy... or something).

Rest beats all of Sonic's moves as well as 99% of the moves in the game. With most characters, rest's tiny-a** hitbox limits our ability to interrupt their moves. Not so with Sonic. His moves practically beg you to perfect rest them. There's 3 things that make moves weak against rest counters: a lack of a disjointed hitbox, a movement component, and multiple hits. Do any of Sonic's moves fit the bill?

Where do I start? I'm posting this in my thread soon so, here's the short version:

Jabs: while SDI is required it is entirely possible to rest Sonic out of his jab-combo.
F-smash: its got a little exploitable startup lag and moves forward a bit as well.
D-smash and Up-smash: move... a lot. Not disjointed.

f-air: multihit, SDI out of it, rest if he lands or if possible in the air.
d-air: if he actually uses this move. Basically like an easier version of the GW key interrupt.

Specials: all can be stopped by rest. Same goes for that spindash trick.

The trick really is that rest interrupts are hard to do. They haven't really been known long enough for the Jiggs mains to come even close to mastering them. I haven't, and I basically invented the techniques.

[4] I think realistically, Jiggs kills Sonic earlier than we kill Jiggs. Vertical KO's are alot harder to land 9_9;

[5] Rest-counter is so awesome lol. And yeah, you can SDI out of F-air, too =p
4. This is true. The Jiggs CANNOT get hit by your up-air though. That move is bad news.

5. Mah baby! Rest-counters are why I play Jiggs :)


I guess that's my bit. Fight on Sonic boards! Don't let the man keep you down.
 

PND

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2) Well, yeah. Dair (that you can Uair us out of) or FFUair. I much prefer the second option.
3) Shield tilting is why I say it has to be damaged a bit. Otherwise it won't hit. On people who don't shield tilt, I do it all the time at full shield

Spinshot: I guess if I see you coming at me like that, I'm probably going to nair or pound. In all likelihood, I'm probably going to retreating nair and judge from there. >_> See, it's stuff like this that make me unable to figure out what Sonic is doing half the time :laugh:
 

PND

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I don't believe so. Her entire body is a hurtbox.

And lolright, Canada wrecks too hard. I'm currently juggling around my plans, I don't know if I can make it, but I'm trying. Life >> Smash ;_;
 

Browny

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asdasdasfasfdasaf

afdsafasdasffdsdasdassssfsdad

-spinshot is a hitbox, im like 99.9% certain of that. at least the grounded vB version is
-Disjointed hitboxes are near impossible to determine. you cant assume sonic has no disjoints on any attack until you prove it against my hitbox pictures. Im serious, dont even bother unless you have 100% undeniable proof of it.
-fsmash moves sonic BACKWARDS not forwards. he can actually charge an fsmash to dodge a pikachu fsmash, then let it go to hit him. moving forwards in the case of say, kirbys fsmash seems more reasonable if you were to rest it
-there is no way you're going to be resting during usmash.
 

Tenki

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asdasdasfasfdasaf

afdsafasdasffdsdasdassssfsdad

-[1] spinshot is a hitbox, im like 99.9% certain of that. at least the grounded vB version is
-[2] Disjointed hitboxes are near impossible to determine. you cant assume sonic has no disjoints on any attack until you prove it against my hitbox pictures. Im serious, dont even bother unless you have 100% undeniable proof of it.
-[3] fsmash moves sonic BACKWARDS not forwards. he can actually charge an fsmash to dodge a pikachu fsmash, then let it go to hit him.
-[4] there is no way you're going to be resting during usmash.
[1] grounded down-B > jump = (SDR) > SDJ = instant spindash jump.
[2] Right, and even so, we don't have images of where his hurtbox is. djbrowny's hitbox pictures, as far as I know, only has the extent of his attackbox.
[3] Maybe leaning forwards to actually throw the punch.
[4] Maybe after it, instead lol. It's about as escapable as Zelda's U-smash, unless you hit with the beginning of the U-smash.

note:
Sonic's U-smash: If he hits you with the beginning of the U-smash (the 'hop' before the invincibility frames), it adds some extra knockback or something that launches opponents early, which is part of the reason for the 'U-smash spike'. It's really easy to assume that this is because of SDI, but it isn't.

As for escaping the middle/latter part of U-smash, vids or it didn't happen.
 

Browny

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Video proof or it didnt happen.

and wth is [1] all about tenki, in english please.
Or better, get someone to stand on a platform on BF and spinshot right into them
 

Tenki

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Video proof or it didnt happen.

and wth is [1] all about tenki, in english please.
Or better, get someone to stand on a platform on BF and spinshot right into them
When you release down-B on the ground, it immediately goes into the spindash roll. When you jump from a spindash roll, you do a spindash jump.

What you described as a grounded down-B spinshot is just a spindash jump.

Which IMO is more versatile and useful, since you can actually double jump out of it lol.

stand on the ground
press down + b ONCE
press c-stick forwards

is that not a spinshot?

meh dont bother with vids or anything cant view em @ work. maybe ive just never done a spinshot before lol

So the game reads this as...
[down]+[b ] > [b ]+[forward]+[a ].

down B > release > jump.

spindash jump.
 

da K.I.D.

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oh my god, the sonics dont even know their own moves.

spinshot does not have a hit box
it moves as fast as he runs,
it is lower to the ground
the speed scales down rapidly
takes away double jump

ISDJ= instant spindash jump
has a blue aura
has a hitbox until the peak of the jump
travels higher
is slightly slower
keeps double jump
 

Browny

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stand on the ground
press down + b ONCE
press c-stick forwards

is that not a spinshot?

meh dont bother with vids or anything cant view em @ work. maybe ive just never done a spinshot before lol
 

Tenki

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lol I just linked to that.

And also, he can't view videos atm.

back to jiggs? ;D
 

Tenki

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but... it's so punishable... and avoidable, unless Jigglypuff is throwing out moves for no reason from outside half the stage away or something.
 
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