Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Tenki]

Yeah, but she's most likely not completely approaching with aerials - more like poking in with a B-air and weaving back out.

 

[MrEh]

That's pretty much it. Jiggs will pretty much be weaving with spaced aerials or waiting for you to make a mistake.

What you really need to watch out for is Pound. That thing rips through everything, and it destroys your shield. ><

 

[Browny]

lulz, poke with a bair + retreat faster than a hyphen smash?

 

[MrEh]

lulz, poke with a bair + retreat faster than a hyphen smash?

If you factor in your shield dropping and all that shieldstun crap....

Then yeah, it's believable.

 

[ShadowLink84]

lulz, poke with a bair + retreat faster than a hyphen smash?

Yeah its very possible. Considering how long it takes the Usmash to come out and dependig on how low jiggz is. She can easily poke with a Bair and then land and shield the incomng hypen smash.

And what the hell went on 2 pages back? It looked like a **** storm flew in. -_-;

Anyways i haven't gotten a reply from Glick yet =(

maybe i will pm NinjaLink since he may use jiggly and he's a grea tplayer all around to begin with.

 

[infomon]

.... at first I was very confused to see PNDMike in a Sonicboards thread o_O
some random notes:

1. PNDMike: I don't spinshot much, even though I can do it pretty consistently. It would have helped vs. your Wario

2. Sonic's Upsmash..... it's not just the beginning of it that can "spike":
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=kpizkWlSFek&feature=PlayList&p=3E0ED686789E9C8C&index=10

SecretofMana mentioned to me the idea that for some crazy-hitting moves like that, most of the hits have great knockback -- you just never notice them because they're supposed to hit you deeper into the move, and it's hard to DI out of. TLink's Dsmash might be another example?

3. I know nothing about this matchup, other than that it confuses the heck out of me, and I've only played it a few times, usually in doubles. PND, maybe we'll get a chance to test it a bit on Friday! Although, I suspect it would take some serious work to figure out how the matchup would function at a high level; we obv won't have that kind of time.

... and I'm the worst Sonic in Ottawa

 

[∫unk]

I just randomly stumbled on this thread and that Marth section is kinda outdated

 

[Chis]

How is it outdated?

 

[Browny]

how insightful

 

[Kinzer]

We can't do anything about that.

BTW Chis yes it is outdated.... I know because I didn't come into this thread until at least sometime around Luigi/Pikachu. that was months ago.

 

[∫unk]

a lot of stuff is obvious if you play a tournament marth.

Shieldbreaker recovery?

 

[Browny]

you're not helping (or doing anything constructive for that matter)

anyway, back to jiggs. Ive never played against a jiggs user same skill level as me so I got no idea... It cant be worse that 55:45 either way :/ but i guess you already knew that lol. Ill still need to see some video proof of all this resting out of sonics attacks before i believe any of it is feasible (let alone possible)

 

[MrEh]

anyway, back to jiggs. Ive never played against a jiggs user same skill level as me so I got no idea... It cant be worse that 55:45 either way :/ but i guess you already knew that lol.

I think so too. It's such a fun matchup though. ^^

Ill still need to see some video proof of all this resting out of sonics attacks before i believe any of it is feasible (let alone possible)

I've personally only tried to Rest a SD, SC, and Dash Attack. I managed to Rest all three.

Not that it really matters though. It's not like any competent Sonic will just roll around like an idiot.

 

[Kinzer]

C'mon DJ, 3 posts prior to his next one, and yet he went and talked like he's BA anyway even though we went through to trouble to tell him we can't update the OP? I also notice how he is a Marth boarder so...

Isn't it safe to say unsuccessful troll is unsuccessful? Their board are about as infamous for spam as we are... But at least we don't go as low as to make other people feel bad (unless of course they say @#$% about Sonic).

...whatever, it doesn't even really matter, once Greens gets back from his trip in Samoa, I'm going to talk to him about changing the matchup write-up. It really does need work, to be updated or change some false information... I can tell it does because it says Marth is a solid counter? I thought y'all agreed to 65:35 before I came here.

I'll start responding to stuff pertaining to Jiggly later today when I wake up.

 

[∫unk]

the problem is none of you guys really go to tournament and the ones that do don't represent really well so personally i can't really say much about the matchup i've played lucky and noR4u in friendlies before aerial camping with mixups (f-air on the rise, on the fall, double, full-hop buffered f-air to ff n-air, etc.) kinda beats everything sonic can do from my experience but dont listen to me im a nub.

since you can't update the OP there isn't a point of saying anything right?

i dunno just read my thread "how to get way better with marth" for the most current marth metagame or go to our video thread thats stickied it has a bunch of good marths there so u can see ppl's playstyle

edit: mostly i care about u guys having accurate information so sonic mains dont get wrecked by marths then think to yourself "the boards made it sound like marth's do ______ when they really do _________ "

you might think thats ridiculous but i hear worse johns every weekend

 

[Browny]

people actually use matchup guides as references for tournaments? a whole bunch of theory, random numbers and wifi opinions? more often that not it ends up as an ftilt vs ftilt, dair vs uair, bair vs fair battle as if every single attack is going to collide

lmao no wonder they get wrecked. I wouldnt have thought any decent player actually takes these things seriously, least of all in high-level play

 

[Jim Morrison]

You know what would be so embarrasing :O
U-throw on Jigglypuff (between 70-100%), Spring follow, try to U-air, but instead get rested rofl. That'll kill at any % above 20 I'd say. I'd just lay down the controller, walk away and cry in a corner.

 

[MalcolmM]

what west coast sonic has placed ANYWHERE? who cares if u beat lucky and noR4u...neither of them have beaten any1 notable ever. ur opinion on the sonic vs marth matchup is like mine on the sonic vs ganon one. I have never played a really good ganon...i just kno the horrible ones i play against cant get past (insert seemingly safe move) so we must win the matchup.

on an intersting sidenote i will b @ CoT4 so if u r going (i saw u post in the thread ages ago) we should MM for 5$ so u can show me the inpenetrable defense of marth.

 

[Jim Morrison]

5 dorra!? You poor or something? 10 dorra. You can't make those statements for 5 dorra only.

 

[ShadowLink84]

the problem is none of you guys really go to tournament and the ones that do don't represent really well so personally i can't really say much about the matchup i've played lucky and noR4u in friendlies before aerial camping with mixups (f-air on the rise, on the fall, double, full-hop buffered f-air to ff n-air, etc.) kinda beats everything sonic can do from my experience but dont listen to me im a nub.

malcolm plays in tournaments and I do so sparingly. djbrown plays in tournaments as well.
Anyway you are correct in that marth should be using his aerials, fanning jabs and Ftilts against Sonic because they are quick and very hard to punish.
As for beating everything he has, well it is true, if Sonic was to rush in like an idiot.
however Sonic will camp just outside your range so that he can capitalize on whatever you do. So if you camp, he'll simply play opportunistic and wait for you to do anything he can capitalize on.

Yes a defensive marth can be difficult, but he is far from impenetrable.

since you can't update the OP there isn't a point of saying anything right?

Um no?
yes?
I hate questions lik these they make me confused when i answer.
Anyway your input is wanted but the thing is, we can't change the OP because of greens and even if we could, we are currently focusing on jigglypuff so we aren't capable of discussing the marth matchup yet.
I can give you my input but it would not be sufficient enough.

i dunno just read my thread "how to get way better with marth" for the most current marth metagame or go to our video thread thats stickied it has a bunch of good marths there so u can see ppl's playstyle

mmk

edit: mostly i care about u guys having accurate information so sonic mains dont get wrecked by marths then think to yourself "the boards made it sound like marth's do ______ when they really do _________ "

you might think thats ridiculous but i hear worse johns every weekend

Not really, we think the same dude.
Like i said we'll get to it once we have the opportunity to do so.

Concerning lucky and NoR4U, there are definitely better sonic mains out there.
I would love to say myself, but I can't, it would be a lie, a good one, but a lie. Cause I suck, terribly, Malcolm and Blue can tell you T_T.

*refers to malcolm, Blue etc etc*

 

[ROOOOY!]

...whatever, it doesn't even really matter, once Greens gets back from his trip in Samoa, I'm going to talk to him about changing the matchup write-up. It really does need work, to be updated or change some false information... I can tell it does because it says Marth is a solid counter? I thought y'all agreed to 65:35 before I came here.

Wrong chart is wrong.
My chart on post #3 is the most accurate and more up to date one.

I still think Jiggz is 50:50 :<

 

[Jim Morrison]

TBH, just make it 50:50 to make both parties happy. Next matchup.

 

[∫unk]

what west coast sonic has placed ANYWHERE? who cares if u beat lucky and noR4u...neither of them have beaten any1 notable ever. ur opinion on the sonic vs marth matchup is like mine on the sonic vs ganon one. I have never played a really good ganon...i just kno the horrible ones i play against cant get past (insert seemingly safe move) so we must win the matchup.

on an intersting sidenote i will b @ CoT4 so if u r going (i saw u post in the thread ages ago) we should MM for 5$ so u can show me the inpenetrable defense of marth.

why do sonic mains take things so personally? im pretty sure i said EVEN THOUGH i played lucky/noR4u i have no experience... doesn't that suggest what you're saying?

and i've established myself as a nub marth in general and in this matchup so this should be an ez 3 stock for u when we play im scared of pro sonics :D

and im not going to cot

 

[Jim Morrison]

Everyone is scared of pro-Sonics. And yea, in the superlatives thread I already read you had a big mouth, but still a nub Marth. Lulz, you and me are in the same boat.

So, I want to fill this page up and go to Toon Link, just cause I can.

 

[Chis]

We should skip to Bowser/Lucario, we'll get a good discussion from that. These poor discussions are killing this thread, leave the boring stuff till the end.

 

[∫unk]

cause marth boards really knows what they're talking about >_> i do a lot better than they think but really i'm not trying to prove them anything i just play to have fun and do my best

they can't even say who the best WC marth is right now (which is BoA btw)

i dunno about other chars but like no WC marth other than me uses SWF regularly most of WC uses AiB

i should stop too i'd probably have more time XD

 

[Jim Morrison]

FFS you stole our top of the page. I didn't even bother reading your post now. You make me go mad.

 

[infomon]

The silly top-post-of-a-page thing shouldn't prevent matchup conversation from happening, lol.

JitT's post wasn't that relevant, but it wasn't off-topic.

and yea I still think Marth ruins Sonics.

and that noone even knows what the Jiggs/Sonic matchup is at a high level. We really shouldn't call it 50:50 because it's more truthfully stated as idk:idk, which isn't the same thing.

 

[Camalange]

I don't even come here anymore, lol.



Too much bias and no matchup knowledge.

 

[Chis]

To Lucario then?

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, if we are gonna skip TL (which we shouldn't, they have intelligent mains who discuss stuff) we should just go to Wolf/Bowser. I'd save Lucario for the end.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ummm... why?

 

[Kinzer]

Lucario boards think Chocolate > Steak.

That's a crime.

JitT, I'll respond to your posts when I'm out of school, and I'm not under watch.

 

[Chis]

We have 4 more to go. Who cares about the order? This will be finished in a month.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Lucario boards think Chocolate > Steak.

That's a crime.

JitT, I'll respond to your posts when I'm out of school, and I'm not under watch.

I think Lucario's roughly 6:4 with Sonic. >.>

 

[Kinzer]

BTW yeah, we really do not need to skip any mains from here on out. All their players are actually decent people... minus the Lucario boards... never forget their blasphemy, I will not.

If T.Link is the next discussion, so be it. I hear they worship some dude named Zange-San?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yesz. Yes they do. Every board has it oddities. Well, start discussing TL?

EDIT: I think everyone should have a different banned-A1 pokemon, that's how we can recognize people. I know for one Malcolm is Shelder, I'm Grimer, Chis is Victreebel and the rest is all fake Haunters. You didn't deserve + A1 + ban yet. Most of you never been banned :O

 

[Camalange]

I thought they worshipped Santi.

Lucario isn't so bad, but yeah, on paper he's probably 60:40.

 

[Kinzer]

the problem is none of you guys really go to tournament and the ones that do don't represent really well so personally i can't really say much about the matchup i've played lucky and noR4u in friendlies before aerial camping with mixups (f-air on the rise, on the fall, double, full-hop buffered f-air to ff n-air, etc.) kinda beats everything sonic can do from my experience but dont listen to me im a nub.

since you can't update the OP there isn't a point of saying anything right?

edit: mostly i care about u guys having accurate information so sonic mains dont get wrecked by marths then think to yourself "the boards made it sound like marth's do ______ when they really do _________ "

About 75% of us actually have been to tournaments... I think the only ones who have yet to are G2FTW and Chis... everybody else has some kind of tourney experience. We know our ****.

We know Sonic loses to Marth, that's a no-brainer, but now I don't know about LuCKy or Nor4u, but... 1. I've never heard of the latter dude, and 2. LuCKy probably doesn't even take Barlw too seriously anymore... the only people who play Sonic on the WC and could still give you a challenge are me or X... I'm not bragging here either, talk to some other people who actually care to follow me, I got the ****.

Not true... if there was no point is saying anything, that defeats the entire purpose of keeping this thread moving along... once the OP gets back, he'll have a lot of work to do, but we still have to keep things moving along here.

Nobody smart should really take matchup write-ups as 100% guides... tehre are a lot of faults in them on their own, and of course not everything will go according to what you read online or ****, the only way to really get better is to put yourself in the heat of battle... no other way. We may try to get as humanly close as possible, but textbooks will only tell you so much when cold-hard practice will tell you everything else if not make things more clear than reading could.

why do sonic mains take things so personally? im pretty sure i said EVEN THOUGH i played lucky/noR4u i have no experience... doesn't that suggest what you're saying?

We hate being put for blame after so much BS... if anything is wrong pertaining to Sonic, we will raid you and give it to you up the butt until Charizard does something. At least you're being honest here though.

cause marth boards really knows what they're talking about >_> i do a lot better than they think but really i'm not trying to prove them anything i just play to have fun and do my best

they can't even say who the best WC marth is right now (which is BoA btw)

i dunno about other chars but like no WC marth other than me uses SWF regularly most of WC uses AiB

This is a surprise... And here I though Marth boards were all elitism... but I guess that's what I get for judging a book by its cover.

Maybe because they aren't sure.

I myself prefer SWF over AiB, and I'm down in Sin-City.

Yesz. Yes they do. Every board has it oddities. Well, start discussing TL?

EDIT: I think everyone should have a different banned-A1 pokemon, that's how we can recognize people. I know for one Malcolm is Shelder, I'm Grimer, Chis is Victreebel and the rest is all fake Haunters. You didn't deserve + A1 + ban yet. Most of you never been banned :O

I thought T.Link boards were cool... they got memes.

BTW Chis apparently uses Raayquaza. I also have been banned, and I was even the first to use Haunter-banned A1 bottle avi (with the help of tenki and Infzy of course).

I thought they worshipped Santi.

Lucario isn't so bad, but yeah, on paper he's probably 60:40.

Regardless, we can worry about that some other time.

So let me see if I got this right... some peopel think it's even... some are optimistic enoguh to say Jiggles has the advantage , and others think it's in Sonic's advantage... so how about this. In the matchup summary, I'll say "It's 55:45 Sonic's advantage, but to be fair that's only because Sonic will have an easier time with Jiggly... it can go either way?"

I dunno, I hate making up matchup numbers because apparently everybody is ashamed to even be considered neutral with the Blue Hedgehog... I can think of at least 7 different ratios we've come up with that should be further into Sonic's field of play.

 

[Napilopez]

I also say Lucario vs. Sonic is 60:40 paperwise. Suprising Lucario mains with OMNOMNOM frames and SideB infzy frames through Auraspheres is funny though XD