Success/Popularity stuff. Final update coming later today!

[WindMajor]

If ratings have a large gap between them, then you can use that as a tier. Either way, it's all going in based on your judgment. If you're having a hard time with tiers, you could just put them all in one big list, just as long as the numbers are in order.



Or you can do both a tier list organized list and a list organized by ratings.

 

[Ripple]

You should not organize it by tier list. This is a study that is separate of the tier list. The tier list should have no bearing on placement at all, even for organizational purposes. Even categorizing them into tiers of usage is questionable, because it would show inherent bias that may or may not be intended.

its just like that so everyone knows where to look for a character. and so I know where to look when adding more data. I know the tier list hands down but doing that to a constantly changing list is impossible

 

[thrillagorilla]

its just like that so everyone knows where to look for a character. and so I know where to look when adding more data. I know the tier list hands down but doing that to a constantly changing list is impossible

Would listing them alphabetically work then? You would know where to find each character and there would be no reference to the tier list.

 

[Tesh]

Alphabetically is useless. Everyone already knows where to find a character on the current tier list.

Might as well list them in order of popularity just for reference.

 

[SN Viper]

I like it the way it is.

 

[Flayl]

The best way to rganize this would be with something like this flayl.tengun.net/smash/lowtier_entries.php

Send me a PM if you're interested.

 

[Flayl]

Is it just me or do the last two columns in John's main table don't make much sense?

You have the total cash won by the character, then the total cash won by the users of that character

And then you have the mean between the two? Shouldn't we have an average for cash won by users of that character instead?

edit: Here's a neat page for John's table http://flayl.tengun.net/smash/success.php

 

[DeLux]

What is the breakdown on Ness and Ike's money earnings?

 

[John12346]

Shouldn't we have an average for cash won by users of that character instead?

Wait what kind of formula are you talking about in this case?

I'm using the average because:
- A split between characters gives too low of a value, especially if players have a tendency to use lots of characters in tourney.
- A non-split between characters gives too high of a value, because in that case, we assume each character used by multi-main players was used 100% of the time.
- So the average between the two seems like the best measure of potential in this case.

What is the breakdown on Ness and Ike's money earnings?

Ike
San - $165
Berserker - $69
Ryo - $50
Poyo - $33
Blaise - $30
ChKn - $30

Ness
FOW - $100
Hyro - $12

 

[Flayl]

I'm talking about using Ripple's data and yours to get the expected value of cash somebody would win if they used meta-knight, for example.

 

[DeLux]

Sorry for the requests, but what's the breakdown for Ice Climbers and MK winnings?

 

[John12346]

Okay, first off, my schedule has taken a drastic turn for the worst(aka if I'm late to any of 4 of my classes which start early in the morning, I fail), so I'll be updating this on weekends from now on.

I'm talking about using Ripple's data and yours to get the expected value of cash somebody would win if they used meta-knight, for example.

Oh, well, that's easy enough for me to do in Excel. Tap in a formula, and I'm good to go.

Although, like I said, I'd like to wait until each character has been used ~500 times before combining data like that.

Sorry for the requests, but what's the breakdown for Ice Climbers and MK winnings?

Ugh you had to ask for MK, didn't you... >___<;

Formatting's gonna look funny because there are far too many people for me to just type out by hand, AKA I have to copypasta right out of Excel.

MK: 120 users in the money

Spoiler

Ally 3076.8
Mew2King 2060
Anti 893.9
Seibrik 549.7
Atomsk 535.4
HolyNightmare 473
Lain 466
Dojo 431.15
DarkLink 355
SuPeRbOoM 330
Jem 315
MTL 240
Lee Martin 234
Ensis 233.6
Sago 230.5
Umbra 223.5
kismet2 221.5
Dphat 210.4
DJIskascribble 183
Big Lou 164
Domo 163.6
Koolaid 159.2
Gnes 153.6
Kadaj 153.5
MeroKnight 152.4
Sparta Kick 148
Lee 144
Hype 142
Zex 141
RedHalberd 131
Nairo 126.8
Judge 125
Gallax 114
Kel 114
Izumi 112
Reflex 112
Korn 111
Breez 108
Nerd 106.5
Jtails 104.5
Mongoose 102
Pwii 100.8
Shadow 100
Seagull 94.5
Alphicans 90
Arty 89.5
Frank Rizzle 88
Hylian 84
V3GA 84
Warioman! 75
d4ba 70
Inui 62
Chuck Nasty 60.05
Spuperwolf 60
Junebug 58
Cheese 55.8
EE 55
Xzax 54
Felix 52.5
Overswarm 51
Tantalus 48.5
Bassem 47.25
Infinity 46
Bloodcross 45.6
MN Moe 45.5
Sushi 45
Jbandrew 45
KillLock 45
FAE 42
Toronto Joe 40
Firefly 39
Sin242 37
Gio 36
Battou 36
Moe 35
Cura 33
Poyo 33
Smurf 32
TKCK 32
Stud Stallion 30
Blaise 30
ChKn 30
Tyrant 27
Sean 25.5
Clel 25
Crazy 25
Voltage 25
Afro 24
Fatboy 23.2
Mintyflesh 22.5
Gebroni 20
DRN 18.5
Magik 18
Ryquaza 18
Pelca 18
SSGuy 18
Micaelis 18
TV 17.5
Logic 17
Vice 17
Dakpo 16
Boxxy 15
Flame 15
Fiji 15
Dawei 13
Fizzle 12
Kola 12
DLA 11.6
Mikalott 11.2
lol. 11
KiraFlax 10
Panty 10
KingAce 10
69dude 10
HINKAGE 8.8
Boss 8
Jem 8
yoshQ 8
Culex 5
Xdeath 5

Ice Climbers: 26 users in the money

Spoiler

Ally 1024
Lain 466
Vex 384
Atomsk 283
Vinnie 250
MeroKnight 152.4
ESAM 145
Sorto 100
Hylian 84
Frank Rizzle 70
GIMR 66
Cheese 55.8
Nuke 50
Swordgard 49
Arty 49
BlueRogue 45
Sin242 37
Cura 33
Dakpo 26
H1N1 25
2D-Jeff 17
Smoom 16.8
Ninjalink 10
Tech_Chase 8
Ambrose 5
Bad Karma 4

Ally is a massive outlier for ICs, lulz.

 

[DeLux]

Is that due to Pound results?

 

[Conviction]

LOL Ally atm has made more money with MK than M2K

 

[Ripple]

From now on Ally does not count as any other character other than MK/snake/falcon.

I don't care who it says he used, don't count it john. ally, is skewing things way too much

 

[John12346]

Well, I'll just put "outlier" tags where necessary. Simple enough.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

IDK, can you really say ICs didn't matter at pound? It's not like Marth VS Razer, where he was up both a game and a set, and won previously with MK. It was against someone who he had lost to with both of his relevant characters, and couldn't afford to **** around because he was in losers.

 

[Exdeath]

IDK, can you really say ICs didn't matter at pound? It's not like Marth VS Razer, where he was up both a game and a set, and won previously with MK. It was against someone who he had lost to with both of his relevant characters, and couldn't afford to **** around because he was in losers.

I second this point. It's possible for Ally to have won with MK, but he obvious used ICs because he felt that it was his best option, not as a joke character.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

It's something you have to consider. The scenario he is in when he uses a character

 

[EpixAura]

Interesting how in the last poll about banning MK, he had 22% usage and 25% of money won, and now he is at less than 19% and has over 37% of money. Or should I use the statistic that says 45%? I can't decide which is more accurate.
But also at that time, Snake was 13% in usage, and now is less than 8%. I guess the metagame was just more centralized in general then. Seriously, according to statistics, MK has gotten more broken since that poll. Peculiar...

 

[Flayl]

I believe Ally might be the best earning Falco too... lol

 

[John12346]

Interesting how in the last poll about banning MK, he had 22% usage and 25% of money won, and now he is at less than 19% and has over 37% of money. Or should I use the statistic that says 45%? I can't decide which is more accurate.
But also at that time, Snake was 13% in usage, and now is less than 8%. I guess the metagame was just more centralized in general then. Seriously, according to statistics, MK has gotten more broken since that poll. Peculiar...

Oh my word, that's a lot worse than I thought it was. I was under the impression he was at ~30% at the time of the 4th ban debate. I'm defo. gonna be raising some hell about this for sure, now.

Also, could you link me to where you got your information? I could definitely use it.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh, and the reason why I haven't updated yet is because I'm still waiting on http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300882, but here's the update info from last week for now:

Spoiler

Characters
MK: 719.7
Snake: 236
Peach: 83.6
Lucario: 40.6
Pika: 11.6
Wario: 78
Diddy: 199
TLink: 45
Falco: 48
Sonic: 7.5
Luigi: 7.5
ICs: 6
Olimar: 19.5
Marth: 88
Sheilda: 40
Fox: 25

Users
MK: 923.7
Snake: 354.5
Peach: 83.6
Lucario: 40.6
Pika: 11.6
Wario: 78
Diddy: 238
TLink: 45
Falco: 84
Sonic: 22.5
Luigi: 22.5
ICs: 12
Olimar: 39
Marth: 88
Sheilda: 40
Fox: 25

Players
DarkLink MK: 96
DarkLink Snake: 96
Kyle Peach: 48
Tommy Snake: 16
UltimateRazer Snake: 101.5
Dojo MK: 101.5
Trela Lucario: 40.6
DPhat: 23.2
Illmatic Peach: 11.6
K Prime Pika: 11.6
Mew2King MK: 114
Reflex Wario: 57
BigLou Diddy: 19
Havok Snake: 75
Havok MK: 75
Jem MK: 45
Nerd MK: 25
Felix Diddy: 15
Hyro TLink: 45
BSP Falco: 22.5
BSP Sonic: 22.5
BSP Luigi: 22.5
Li-D: 7.5
Seibrik MK: 144
RedHalberd MK: 66
RedHalberd Snake: 66
Xaltis Falco: 42
Xaltis MK: 42
Kyon Peach: 24
DJ Jack Falco: 12
MeroKnight ICs: 12
MeroKnight MK: 12
Lie MK: 78
Lie Diddy: 78
Logic Olimar: 39
Logic MK: 39
Bengals Marth: 13
ADHD Diddy: 126
Anti MK: 63
Malcolm Wario: 21
Ganja Marth: 75
ScaryLB59 Sheilda: 40
Trumptight Fox: 25

Tournaments Used:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300855
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300889
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300858
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300818
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300819
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300812
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300893
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300815
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301324

Tournaments Unused:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=300882 <-- no characters or payouts mentioned

If I don't get a response by tomorrow, I'll just update without it or something.

 

[EpixAura]

The information was from the pro-ban argument in the debate itself.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242903

It said that MK held 22% of all tournament placings, but I interpret that to mean tournament usage. Same for the Snake statistic.
The current statistics are from this thread, if that wasn't blatantly apparent.

 

[John12346]

Epix, that's really interesting. That means that, instead of a tournament winnings increase of 7%, as I initially thought, it's now 16%! That's very... how shall I put it... "decisive" news, as it were.

Anyway, here's the update. I never received any word from the tournament I couldn't identify, so I just left it out. Update info is up above, so I'm not gonna bother reposting it.

Anyway, enjoy!

Update Commentary
- Meta-Knight breaks $12000.
- Zero Suit Samus loses her viability again.

 

[EpixAura]

Oops, nvm, he WAS at ~30% winnings. Where did I get 25% from? I could have sworn... I checked the thread again, but still can't find 25% anywhere in it. I feel like I got it from the last 40 or so pages, which I skimmed through at school. Hmmm...

 

[SN Viper]

Hey John can i get a break down of the players that have won cash with falco.

thanks

 

[John12346]

This doesn't take into account the weekend of 4/9 yet, which I'm working on right now, but here you go. Please excuse the funky formatting.

Spoiler

DarkLink 355
Larry 300
Shugo 140
RedHalberd 131
Mongoose 102
Kel 102
kismet2 95
Arty 89.6
Frank Rizzle 88
Stroumbert 88
Berserker 69
Superwolf 60
Xzax 54
Viper 51
Alphicans 50
Xaltis 50
Ice 47.5
DJ Falco 37.5
Moe 35
Pelca 34.7
TypeX 32
L-Boss 30
H1N1 25
Nerd 24
BSP 22.5
Megafox 22
Kadaj 21.5
Billy 18
Bloodcross 14.8
Sin242 13
Fizzle 12
DJ Jack 12
KiraFlax 10
Ozz 10
Mav 9.5
Li-D 7.5
Culex 5

And since I'm showing this, I may as well ask... are DJ Falco and DJ Jack the same person?

 

[SN Viper]

This doesn't take into account the weekend of 4/9 yet, which I'm working on right now, but here you go. Please excuse the funky formatting.

Spoiler

DarkLink 355
Larry 300
Shugo 140
RedHalberd 131
Mongoose 102
Kel 102
kismet2 95
Arty 89.6
Frank Rizzle 88
Stroumbert 88
Berserker 69
Superwolf 60
Xzax 54
Viper 51
Alphicans 50
Xaltis 50
Ice 47.5
DJ Falco 37.5
Moe 35
Pelca 34.7
TypeX 32
L-Boss 30
H1N1 25
Nerd 24
BSP 22.5
Megafox 22
Kadaj 21.5
Billy 18
Bloodcross 14.8
Sin242 13
Fizzle 12
DJ Jack 12
KiraFlax 10
Ozz 10
Mav 9.5
Li-D 7.5
Culex 5

And since I'm showing this, I may as well ask... are DJ Falco and DJ Jack the same person?

where is Dj Falco from if it was an FL tourney then yes if not then no. send me a link i will be able to tell you.

 

[John12346]

Oh, well, if a DJ Falco actually exists, then it's fine, no need to worry.

 

[John12346]

Alright, here's the update for the week. Not much to talk about; everything seems to be consistent with other weeks.

AKA MK's ******.

Update Information

Spoiler

Characters
MK: 487.15
Wario: 143.1
Diddy: 98.9
Zamus: 59.9
Lucario: 4.4
Marth: 94
Snake: 316.55
TLink: 60
Falco: 49.8
ICs: 102.63
Dedede: 14.5
GaW: 3.63
Peach: 13
Ike: 3.5
Pika: 25.5
Kirby: 45
Mario: 11.55
DK: 23.55
Falcon: 1.05
Bowser: 22.5

Users
MK: 817.3
Wario: 286.1
Diddy: 98.9
Zamus: 68.7
Lucario: 13.2
Marth: 183.2
Snake: 444.1
TLink: 60
Falco: 201
ICs: 337.25
Dedede: 43.5
GaW: 7.25
Peach: 16.5
Ike: 7
Pika: 93
Kirby: 45
Mario: 23.1
DK: 92.1
Falcon: 2.1
Bowser: 90

Players
Mew2King MK: 158.4
Reflex Wario: 72.6
kismet2 MK: 46.2
BigLou Diddy: 26.4
DRN Zamus: 13.2
DRN Lucario: 13.2
DRN MK: 13.2
Kadaj Marth: 13.2
Kadaj MK: 13.2
UltimateRazer Snake: 210
Jerm TLink: 60
Dphat MK: 30
Ally MK: 145
Ally Falco: 145
Ally Snake: 145
Ally Wario: 145
Ally ICs: 145
ADHD Diddy: 72.5
Atomsk Falco: 43.5
Atomsk MK: 43.5
Atomsk Dedede: 43.5
Malcolm Wario: 14.5
Vinnie GaW: 7.25
Vinnie ICs: 7.25
Inui MK: 7.25
HRNut Snake: 57
DTorr Zamus: 28.5
Kyon Peach: 9.5
Lie MK: 25
SSR Peach: 7
SSR Ike: 7
Dilf Pika: 3
MN Moe MK: 170
MN Moe Marth: 170
Sin242 MK: 95
Sin242 ICs: 95
Triple R Kirby: 45
Blaise Snake: 23.1
Blaise Mario: 23.1
Curlz Falco: 12.6
Curlz MK: 12.6
ChKn Marth: 4.2
ChKn MK: 4.2
FPDav DK: 2.1
FPDav Falcon: 2.1
ESAM Pika: 90
ESAM ICs: 90
ESAM DK: 90
ESAM Bowser: 90
Seibrik MK: 54
Seibrik Wario: 54
Nick Riddle Zamus: 27
MVD Snake: 9

Tournaments Used
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301250
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301241
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301258
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301273
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301315
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301159
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301235
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301240

Tournaments Unused
-none-

Update Commentary
- Meta-Knight breaks $13000.
- Mr. Game and Watch and Fox have both lost their viability!
- Zero Suit Samus regains her viability for the umpteenth time!
- Captain Falcon finally made some money!

 

[Ripple]

sorry for no update recently, been swamped. will still be swamped until wednesday

 

[John12346]

Alright, update time! Not much of importance happened this week around, so yeah.

I find it really stupid when I say MK had a bad week, and yet still won the most money for the week, though...

Update Information - 4/16/11

Spoiler

Characters
MK: 581.63
Snake: 284.38
Falco: 44.83
Yoshi: 59
Marth: 7
Diddy: 50.78
Wario: 252.8
ICs: 39.33
Peach: 15
Olimar: 164.25
TLink: 106.25
Ike: 60.8
Mario: 60.8
Sonic: 41.8
Zamus: 53.2
DK: 15.2
Lucario: 7.6
R.O.B.: 90
Pit: 26
Kirby: 16
GaW: 4.33

Users
MK: 680.9
Snake: 525.9
Falco: 108.5
Yoshi: 59
Marth: 7
Diddy: 107.9
Wario: 339.6
ICs: 108.5
Peach: 15
Olimar: 164.25
TLink: 106.25
Ike: 182.4
Mario: 182.4
Sonic: 83.6
Zamus: 53.2
DK: 30.4
Lucario: 15.2
R.O.B.: 90
Pit: 26
Kirby: 16
GaW: 13

Players
Cura MK: 77
DoomMachine Snake: 42
DoomMachine Falco: 42
Sharky Yoshi: 14
Vibe Marth: 7
Ally Snake: 114
Ally MK: 114
HolyNightmare MK: 57
Swordgard Snake: 19
Swordgard Diddy: 19
Swordgard Falco: 19
Judge MK: 90
Judge Wario: 90
Lain ICs: 45
Lain MK: 45
Mikey Lenetia Peach: 15
Dojo MK: 138
Denti Olimar: 58
Dphat MK: 35
Ensis TLink: 106.25
DNYCE Olimar: 106.25
Hylian ICs: 37.5
Hylian Falco: 37.5
Hylian MK: 37.5
Infern Snake: 182.4
Infern Ike: 182.4
Infern Mario: 182.4
Blue Rogue Wario: 83.6
Blue Rogue Sonic: 83.6
Y.b.M. Zamus: 53.2
AlphaZealot Diddy: 30.4
AlphaZealot DK: 30.4
fonz Lucario: 15.2
fonz MK: 15.2
Kel MK: 15.2
Bundtcake R.O.B.: 90
Firefly Yoshi: 45
Breez MK: 15
Fatal Snake: 110
Malcolm Wario: 54
Koolaid Pit: 26
Pelca Falco: 10
Pelca MK: 10
Reflex Wario: 112
Kismet MK: 32
George Kirby: 16
Anti MK: 58.5
Anti Snake: 58.5
ADHD Diddy: 58.5
ADHD MK: 58.5
Vinnie GaW: 13
Vinnie MK: 13
Vinnie ICs: 13

Tournaments Used
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301666
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301668
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301647
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=12565547#post12565547
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301696
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301718
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301665
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301619
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301697
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=301637

Tournaments Unused
-none-

Update Commentary
- Snake breaks $5000.

 

[san.]

Congrats on the successful topic so far. Very valuable information.

How long will the data stay cumulative, by the way?



.

 

[John12346]

Uh, I was intending to keep it going until the end of 2011, although I was gonna start making some in-depth analysis of the data at the end of June.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Wario's doing it big these days, it seems.

 

[Ripple]

I was gonna restart with each new tier list actually

 

[John12346]

Well, I was gonna rearrange the list in accordance with the new Tier List, but I did intend to keep it going until the end of the year...

I guess we should decide on which is best to go with, then...

 

[Ripple]

I asked the BBR and they prefered each tier list

 

[John12346]

Oh fine... just seems like a waste in my case, but w/e, I'll manage.

Maybe it'd be a good chance for me to note down some additional information from tournaments that I was not previously able to acquire because I started taking it too late.

 

[Kaffei]

- Meta-Knight breaks $12000.

^ LMAO

Very nice work with the data, btw.