Super Awesome Wario Advanced Technique and Combo Thread! Defensive Tire Play!!!

[SAX]

So I didn't really get a chance to get the hang of the bank shoting. We mostly did some friendlies and stuff like duelist pro etc. I'll see If i can just sit down one day and practice it.

 

[Dotcom]

I absolutely love this thread, but it'd be nice to see people rework the simple guide.

 

[Pwneroni]

Rework the simple guide? Please explain Dotcom, I would like to know more!

 

[BPx]

I think he means revising MC's guide.

 

[Dotcom]

What Bpsaid is right, ur at peast try to update it. Simple combos, along with a "current" guide and other things like that would help new warios out a lot.

 

[Pwneroni]

I think that guide is good as it is. Most of the valuable information in that guide is objective and static: frame data, damage, range of moves, etc. You can learn by example by watching Wario players in the video thread, and for advance techniques and a higher level guide, you can refer to the AT/Tire thread.

Seems to me like we have a trifecta of resources for the beginning Wario player. Seems alright, eh?

 

[WacasJP]

control mapping should be added when necessary

Y-special X-jump makes chopper hopping easy

idk

i have z-attack for easy dacus but its useless now that there is bdacus..

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Have you seen this new air dodge canceled item throw?

http://vgbootcamp.com/entry.php?15-Metagame-Minute-The-Air-Dodge-Canceling-Item-Toss

Seems like Wario could benefit from it a fair amount. Because of Wario's ridiculous horizontal aerial mobility, doing this with a tire out of a strong hit will allow us to gain a much greater benefit than most characters (if they, say, had one of Diddy's bananas). Also, this might allow us to use the Bike as a straight-up momentum cancel more often, since we'd have more time to pull it out.

Gives us another reason to play with the item in our hand more often, huh?

 

[Dynomite]

While watching this, i was very curios to know if we can ADCIT the tire and get out of mk's nado. or combo with nair/clap

Correct me, but i find that it is VERY hard to get out of mk's nado. And if you,somehow, airdodge he will get you again simply by following. And we dont have any airial moves fast enough or with enough priority to go through the nado once we are trapped inside. Doesnt mean that our moves cant go through nado with precise timing. Thats a different situation though.

 

[Linkvader]

I love the situation when I am able to camp for a little bit with a tire in my hand. I see that helping Wario in certain situations, but not that often. I think it helps Diddy way more than it helps us, but it would be cool to run into the situation where you can use it.

 

[Dynomite]

helps diddy more because the banana is a better projectile, lets face facts.

 

[Linkvader]

Yeah, but it gives us another option against Diddy, and with tires.

 

[B.Mack]

Wario gets nado'd.
Wario pops out of nado and ADCIT's the tire downwards
tire clanks with nado, gets destroyed.
Wario falls back into nado.

 

[Dynomite]

Wario gets nado'd.
Wario pops out of nado and ADCIT's the tire downwards
tire clanks with nado, gets destroyed.
Wario falls back into nado.

Wario gets nado'd

???

profit

 

[Deathfox30]

I just skimmed through this, but I don't think F smashing or D tilting with a tire was mentioned. I didn't see skid pick-up either. I have no idea if that's the official name, but it's when you let the control stick return to neutral or press down while dashing to enter a skid then press A or Z to pick up the tire.

Also, if there's a stationary tire and you jump and press Z at the same time, you Z catch the item then immediately drop it and air dodge. It's a lot like a zibble drop.

Sorry if this was in the guide and I missed it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Wario gets nado'd

???

profit

It all depends on where the tire hits. It -can- knock him out of Mach Tornado if it hits from the top-center, which would allow for a U-Air or Waft. Little to lose and a whole lot to gain.

I just skimmed through this, but I don't think F smashing or D tilting with a tire was mentioned. I didn't see skid pick-up either. I have no idea if that's the official name, but it's when you let the control stick return to neutral or press down while dashing to enter a skid then press A or Z to pick up the tire.

Also, if there's a stationary tire and you jump and press Z at the same time, you Z catch the item then immediately drop it and air dodge. It's a lot like a zibble drop.

Sorry if this was in the guide and I missed it.

Those are pretty useful. Good looking out.

Also, SO THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING WHEN I TRIED TO PRACTICE THE SINGLE BANANA LOCK ON DIDDY KONG. I kept wondering why I would seem to grab it and instantly drop it for some reason.

 

[Dynomite]

My experience with the instant drop:

There are many ways of picking up an item. I tend to use Z alot. And i see 2 ways to catch it

1) perfectly when your right on the item in mid air

2) airdodge pickup.

When i tend to HOLD Z and airdodge while doing scenario 1 i tend to drop it...

So hard to explain, but i kinda know how to control it. It has something to do with airdodge, I just cant explain it.

 

[Deathfox30]

My experience with the instant drop:

There are many ways of picking up an item. I tend to use Z alot. And i see 2 ways to catch it

1) perfectly when your right on the item in mid air

2) airdodge pickup.

When i tend to HOLD Z and airdodge while doing scenario 1 i tend to drop it...

So hard to explain, but i kinda know how to control it. It has something to do with airdodge, I just cant explain it.

From what I can tell there are three ways to instant drop.

1) Jump near a stationary item and press Z at the same time. Same input as a rising Zair.

2) Press Z when an item is traveling up and just hit something within a certain period of time. The stage for a tire or Diddy's head in the case of the SNL.

3) Press Z during the animation of an aerial/aerial item toss. I think it makes you buffer an instant drop instead of a Z catch or Air dodge for some reason.

When I attempted to recreate the instant drop during the SNL the only thing that made me Z drop was if I pressed Z really early after the down throw. If I waited a little while I would always Z catch.

I think the third reason is probably why it happens. You're just buffering a Z catch out of the down throw. If you pick an item up with an aerial then before it finishes press Z you'll drop it and air dodge too.

It was really hard to test this with Wario so I used Mk and Uair with bananas/bike tires. lol It's kinda hard to do but if you Uair and then almost immediately hit Z when you're near an item (without picking it up with the Uair) you'll do the instant drop too.

I think this is related to the technique where you do an aerial to pick up an item then buffer another aerial and it lets you do that aerial instead of throwing the item. Maybe there are some other cool things we can do with aerial buffering and items.

Edit: This is a lot easier if you just go into training mode, pick Mk, and get a banana and put it on one of the Battlefield platforms. Then do a short up and Uair without catching the item and press Z before the Uair finishes. If you do a full hop Uair (item catch) and buffer the Z drop you'll get the instant drop too. I couldn't get this to work by buffering a Z catch out of an air dodge, but if you put a banana on a platform and do a full hop air dodge and hit Z right before it ends you'll land, pick up the item, then immediately drop it. I also managed to roll and pick up an item some how by pressing Z and a direction during an Mk Uair but the timing is really hard.

Edit 2: I tested it some more. You can do the grounded and aerial instant drop with specials and aerials too. You can also do the no-catch instant drop with air dodge.

I'm not sure instant drop could see very many uses but one that comes to mind is running up to Diddy and instant dropping his banana and Air dodging away or behind him and buffering an F smash maybe. It might push him back into the banana if he shields. You could also BDACUS out of the air dodge too and it should grab the banana out of the air if he throws it at you or grab the one you just instant dropped and hit him. Full hop instant drop seems viable too since you could instant drop then land on the BF platform or something.

 

[B.Mack]

I think we should address the separate applications of big tire VS small tire. when you break the bike, which one should you go for? which is better for offense/defense? why? as well as various statisics about the tires.
just to get started:
small tire does more damage than ZSS suit pieces.
small tire bounces 6 tmes when thrown upwards, big tire bounces 5 times.
small tire goes further when thrown
big tire is obviously bigger and hence has a larger hitbox. easier to do dthrow combos with big tire.
small tire bounces back further when thrown compared to big tire.

 

[Linkvader]

I think that the small tire is better than the big tire, as long as you're good with catching and you don't miss... Small tire wins!!!

 

[Pwneroni]

The big tire is my favorite. Mostly when I use the tire, I try to include Nairs or bites (the most effective moves paired with tires IMO). The big tire is a lot easier to regrab with Nair, so you are more likely to be able to get a hit in, and escape with your tire still intact safely. Also if you hit an opponent with Nair and a tire in your hand at lower percents, you can possibly link into a Dthrow glidetoss Fsmash.

 

[SAX]

It all depends on where the tire hits. It -can- knock him out of Mach Tornado if it hits from the top-center, which would allow for a U-Air or Waft. Little to lose and a whole lot to gain.



Those are pretty useful. Good looking out.

Also, SO THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING WHEN I TRIED TO PRACTICE THE SINGLE BANANA LOCK ON DIDDY KONG. I kept wondering why I would seem to grab it and instantly drop it for some reason.

Please tell me you haven't played Dokapon Kingdom Reflex.

That is the Saltiest game in the worrrrllldd!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What is the percent where a fresh D-Throw will not start a chaingrab on Wolf (as in, it's too high)?

 

[| Big D |]

I know I posted this in the video section but I felt I should post it here and just tell everything I found while experimenting with the jab lock properties of tires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lvteuWVmns&feature=share

First: The setup
I honestly think Tire > Clap > Footstool is a true combo on a lot of characters.
Spacies in particular. At 0%, the tire > clap combo doesn't set off a character's knock back animation. It's like Peach's up tilt string. This set up is really easy to perform on fast fallers and large characters.

Second: The lock
The lock is rather straight forward. You have to initiate it by hitting a character with a down throw while they are behind you. This can also be done with a soft backwards glide toss if they aren't too close to you. It's pretty easy to do, just toss downwards and press A. The only way out is to SDI in front of you. You have to see this, it's not hard,
turn around and soft backwards glide toss. This is your best option whenever they are in front and not close enough to get with a regular down throw. The lock is a forced getup so if you screw up you can still punish hard.

Third: The turnaround
After practicing and practicing, I found a consistent way to get it. You can either try and get a feel for when to speed up to perfectly place them behind you or do my method. You slow down so they aren't at the middle of Wario's body as much but more like part of his bottom. Then do 3 quick toss/pickups and this will put them in front. Turn around and do a soft backwards glide toss towards them. You can either do a string of backwards glide tosses until you get the opponent close to you or you can do a short step down toss. Believe me, it isn't anywhere near as hard as it sounds.

tl;dr speed up and turn around and soft backwards glide toss.

Fourth: Miscellaneous
Spacies get destroyed since it''s easy to set up and they can't SDI out of it. You can''t do a turn around but all you need to do is do a regular lock up until the percentage required for a buffered turnaround chain grab.

If a tire's knock back sends a foe into a wall, they will instantly go into a missed tech animation.

On a lot of characters, you can down throw infinite on walls. The only legal stage for it to work is rainbow cruise. Tire > Nair > Down throw is a good setup.

To practice this, make a custom stage with two walls at both sides. Make the opponent go close to the wall and throwing the tire will send them into the wall and on the ground.

Reflex: The down throw on Wolf needs to be stale before 127%

I'm going to an upcoming tournament and hope to pull this off in a match. I can do it to CPUs now.

 

[Pwneroni]

Wow haha that is sooo freakin awesome!!! I have a question though: what happens if ANY SDI is present? It looks to me like it would mess up the "infinite". Maybe you could catch them with a Dthrow glidetoss but would that end the combo? Oh and I really love your way of acquiring the tire! Dthrow, bounce, Nair, bounce airdodge gets a tire right away. Brilliant my good sir, simply brilliant! :D

 

[| Big D |]

Wow haha that is sooo freakin awesome!!! I have a question though: what happens if ANY SDI is present? It looks to me like it would mess up the "infinite". Maybe you could catch them with a Dthrow glidetoss but would that end the combo? Oh and I really love your way of acquiring the tire! Dthrow, bounce, Nair, bounce airdodge gets a tire right away. Brilliant my good sir, simply brilliant! :D

They can only SDI Forwards. If they SDI backwards, Wario won't slide and they will still be in range of the tire regardless actually prolonging the lock. Their only option is to SDI forward but depending on your rate of toss/pickups and amount of SDI they could go in front of you while being in range of a backwards soft glide toss or just a regular down toss. They could also stay behind you if you keep a slow pace like method 1.

Even then, a lot of people still don't SDI Pikachu's down smash or will think to SDI the tire. Plus, tires do a lot of damage and the lock forces a getup animation.

PS: Combo video was awesome!

 

[Pwneroni]

True, because something isn't 100% guaranteed it doesn't mean that it isn't valuable and awesome to know!

 

[Deathfox30]

Nice find. Have you tested this on every character? I got this to work on Falco, Mk, Bowser, and Snake but couldn't get it to work on Marth.

 

[Labernash]

Another reason to hate Marth. Ghey.

 

[| Big D |]

Nice find. Have you tested this on every character? I got this to work on Falco, Mk, Bowser, and Snake but couldn't get it to work on Marth.

Yeah, it is possible to do on Marth, just a lot harder. I cannot do it on Diddy. It works on a lot of characters, just some are very hard. Peach, Marth, Diddy, and Ike are the ones I have trouble with.

 

[Deathfox30]

Yeah, it is possible to do on Marth, just a lot harder. I cannot do it on Diddy. It works on a lot of characters, just some are very hard. Peach, Marth, Diddy, and Ike are the ones I have trouble with.

I can't do it to any of those characters using the D throw > U air > footstool set up, they just bounce away. But I can do it by simply U throwing them and Z catching the tire then starting it when they hit the ground. Diddy goes in front of you really fast, I have to turn around after 2 throws.

I also found another potential set up. Opponent is on BF platform. Throw tire up (sends them into platform slip animation), jump and Z catch the tire, throw it down at them and catch it as you hit the ground then soft glide toss backwards

or

Throw tire up, jump and insta throw it down then air dodge catch and buffer a D throw when you land.

It sounds harder than it is.

 

[Pwneroni]

Wow sweet idea Deathfox! Lol what are the odds though that the tire will trip them? I have no idea, but my guess it is on the smaller side! That would be soooooo legit if you got it to work in a match!

Here's my 2 cents on it: Have a big tire under a battlefield platform, and shorthop dthrow it. Only the big tire bounces above the platform to poke at them once (and only once, it stills after it reaches above the platform). The Dthrow is less laggy than Wario's Uthrow for tires, so you may have more options (like Bite, Nair, Uair, Dair, Fart etc).

 

[Deathfox30]

The tire will always send them backward if you hit them on the platform and a pretty good distance too. You can force them into their platform fall animation if you hit them with the big tire anywhere between the center and the edge of the platform.

Here's a video showing what I mean by edge slip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFtJDxsqMs&feature=player_embedded

Any tire throws will force them into that. If you hit them from above or below they will turn around and go in the direction opposite of the side the tire hit them. So if you want them to slide off the edge on the left lower BF platform, throw it to the left and they'll slide backwards and fall off towards the center of the stage.

The easiest way I've found to do this is U throw > jump backwards > Z catch > weak backwards glide toss > d throw lock

Little tires, fair, nair, and bair will also make them slide off the platform backwards, but tires will do it at any percent. You could probably set this up with Fair/bair > nair > tire throw too but it would be hard and the tire would have to be right by where they land.

 

[| Big D |]

Sounds like a great set up, especially since it can happen at any percent. Also, it's not as hard to set up. I will experiment with this, maybe there's more setups?

 

[Deathfox30]

Z drop > Uair (recatch) > footstool on floaties. If the tire is in front of them Dair (tire catch) > footstool

Maybe D tilt > Footstool on fatties at around 50% but they have tons of time to jump or air dodge.

I think the only way someone will actually land this in a match is with the BF set up, glide tossing into a missed tech, or maybe the D throw Uair Footstool setup.

There are probably a few cool stage specific setups, especially on pictochat.

 

[Pwneroni]

Maybe D tilt > Footstool on fatties at around 50% but they have tons of time to jump or air dodge.

Haha hell no xD maybe if it was Dtint into a bouncing tire hit, you would have enough time to jump (7 frames) and foostool.

 

[| Big D |]

Hey, you guys know the Single Nana Lock right? Well i was practicing and I thought, I wonder if Wario could do this with his tire. Guess what, he can. It also makes the infinite a lot easier. In order to turn around, all you do is pick up the tire, jump, throw it down, airdodge catch, move towards the opponent, turnaround and dthrow.

I'm going to upload a vid shortly.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4DOrgNbZyY

 

[LordAizen]

Hey, you guys know the Single Nana Lock right? Well i was practicing and I thought, I wonder if Wario could do this with his tire. Guess what, he can. It also makes the infinite a lot easier. In order to turn around, all you do is pick up the tire, jump, throw it down, airdodge catch, move towards the opponent, turnaround and dthrow.

I'm going to upload a vid shortly.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4DOrgNbZyY

OMG That is so amazing, I am going to practice this first thing tommorow.

 

[(S!C)]

mariomaster, thank you, thats so awesome. need to handle it until tomorrow
brawliin in berlin2 !

 

[PieDisliker]

You think it can be done with the small tire?

Edit: Oh yeah, and apparently dthrow > uair > dthrow > full waft is a whopping 77%......... Keeping full waft is sounding a whole lot more tempting now.

It's probably old news too. xD