TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[UncleSam]

okay so apparently D3 is only 2 feet tall, and Marth will butcher him.

on a side note.

the game.

 

[payasofobia]

Sorry Sam, you lost it.

 

[REL38]

4 more posts, guys . . .

 

[tocador]

4...................................

 

[UncleSam]

3 more posts till what?

 

[tocador]

more..........................................................

 

[tocador]

till this!!!!!!!!!!!!

TAKE IT!!!!!!!!

[insert epic moment here]

 

[payasofobia]

. poop

 

[tocador]

Such a waste of epic 1000 post.

Paya fails at being epic =/.

 

[payasofobia]

What? You expected an epic 1000 post?

What kind of fool with no life wastes his time expecting stuff like that?

 

[REL38]

What? You expected an epic 1000 post?

What kind of fool with no life wastes their time expecting stuff like that?

Aww, what . . . Man, get outta here! >:0

I even built up hype for ya :/

Get outta here!

 

[tocador]

Someone that posted a "Falcon punch 1000th post" with baloons and stuff. This guy rocks :D.

 

[payasofobia]

FINE! HOW'S THIS FOR AN EPIC 1000 POST THEME!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf92IhVzq6U

 

[UncleSam]

it isn't actually ur 1000th post so it doesn't count

 

[REL38]

FINE! HOW'S THIS FOR AN EPIC 1000 POST THEME!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf92IhVzq6U

You already posted Cumbia-Metal before so it's thusly no longer epic but rather disappointing :/

 

[payasofobia]

Oh well!

There's nothing I can do about that!

 

[adumbrodeus]

More fun destroying ahead! Mwahahaha!

Fungus only act on dead things, or they at least kill living things. They are decomposers, they transform organic matter into inorganic, they kill you basically :D. And your example is not Animal - fungu .

*facepalm*

Look them up.

They're both fungi that live on LIVING animals.

Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis lives on frogs.


Laboulbeniomycetes lives on insects.


Heck, athletes foot is caused by a fungus, it's painful, but not gonna kill you.


The fact that a fungus is a decomposer doesn't mean it can only live on a dead host, it just needs dead matter, which SURPRISE most living animals have.


Of course, it's lifecycle could end when the fungus consumes essential organs, if it gains enough evolutionary advantage from the presence, it could still evolve to support that.


But, if the fungus evolved symbiotically, it would survive on the leftovers (organic matter that is unneeded, such as extra cells and food scraps).

Imagine that if in the future we would get wings and laser thoru our eyes? Wouldnt that be awesome?

You cant predict future, or use it as a argument. Its like saying that in the future "dogs will fly" which you cant rpove im wrong, because it is the future :O.

Lol

I'm saying based on known principals, it's possible for something like this to evolve.

I guess it's impossible that Splinter Cell: Conviction will exist, because it doesn't exist yet, right?


BS, we can tell what can and cannot exist based on known principals.

Not possible in RL. Polens can kill, can you cant just invent something. In the game they were called SPORES, but in RL they cant be. So then, they cant exist.

But if you want, ivy had a "powder".

Going back to the "it hasn't been proven to exist so can't exist"?


We're talking about what CAN happen, not what HAS happened, otherwise the entire thread (except for Marth, Roy, Zelda, etc) is out the window.


Hasn't happened yet=/=unrealistic.

In order to reproduce, an egg and a sperm are needed. This applies to all of the Animal Kingdom.
Ivy cannot have two completely different methods in doing so.

Perhaps you missed this but, my suggestion from the beginning was this:


That ivysaur used pollenization for reproduction of the plant itself, and then the "spores" are used to transfer the fertizilized cells to new hosts.


Also, defense.

Fungi are ejected from the parent fungi and Ivy's flower shows no evidence of being able to that at all.

Actually, quite the opposite.
Pick basically any 3D pokemon game, they all are able to expell... something (most through fierce shaking)

Bublasaur also shows the ability to expel things forcefully through the bulb in episode 32.


It's not even necessarily the plant that needs to expell them, ivysaur obviously evolved to work with the bulb symbiotically so he could have muscles built to expel them (in fact, he probably DID evolve like that, it's evolutionary more convenient then the plant doing it).

 

[payasofobia]

Sorry Adum:

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

In before wall of text detailing why Adum is wrong.

 

[tocador]

More fun destroying ahead! Mwahahaha!




*facepalm*

Look them up.

They're both fungi that live on LIVING animals.

Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis lives on frogs.


Laboulbeniomycetes lives on insects.


Heck, athletes foot is caused by a fungus, it's painful, but not gonna kill you.

If not removed soon, or if it passes through your epidermid and manages to reach circualtory system, it can kill you. Fungus kill, and alot.

The fact that a fungus is a decomposer doesn't mean it can only live on a dead host, it just needs dead matter, which SURPRISE most living animals have.


Of course, it's lifecycle could end when the fungus consumes essential organs, if it gains enough evolutionary advantage from the presence, it could still evolve to support that.

If it gets onto one of your organs you are pretty much efed, but they can soemtiem cure you. The treatment is hard because that the fungus cells are so alike your cells that a medicine taht kills up the fungus can end up killing your cells :D.

But, if the fungus evolved symbiotically, it would survive on the leftovers (organic matter that is unneeded, such as extra cells and food scraps).

And be that size? Not really. Again, a "shroom"(ivy bulb if you want) is made by 2 fungus that made contact and created a reproducing thingy(forgot name) that is in case the Bulb. For a bulb that big, the "micella" should be just enough to rot up a 10m tree in 5 months.

Lol

I'm saying based on known principals, it's possible for something like this to evolve.

I guess it's impossible that Splinter Cell: Conviction will exist, because it doesn't exist yet, right?

How do you know it wont happen? Maybe it could happen, you cant deny it, because it may in fact happen. There isnt anything as "more plausible" or "less plausible" when making assumptions about the future, because anything can happen. So just dicard this.

BS, we can tell what can and cannot exist based on known principals.

And based on todays reality no plants can poison you to death.

Going back to the "it hasn't been proven to exist so can't exist"?

I presume dogs will fly. Cant you prove they wont?

We're talking about what CAN happen, not what HAS happened, otherwise the entire thread (except for Marth, Roy, Zelda, etc) is out the window.


Hasn't happened yet=/=unrealistic.

Dogs can fly then. It is not unrealistic, because you dont know what will happen to earth and how the ecosystem will change, or if somehow dogs will need to fly to survive making them fly. Its all assumptions, there is no more plausible or less plausible, because the future is undetermined.

Perhaps you missed this but, my suggestion from the beginning was this:


That ivysaur used pollenization for reproduction of the plant itself, and then the "spores" are used to transfer the fertizilized cells to new hosts.

He cant shoot it, and to fertilizy anything you need a male of that thing, or something similar. Stuff dont just grew up from the oblivion.

Also, defense.





Actually, quite the opposite.
Pick basically any 3D pokemon game, they all are able to expell... something (most through fierce shaking)

Bublasaur also shows the ability to expel things forcefully through the bulb in episode 32.

Not realistic in RL....

It's not even necessarily the plant that needs to expell them, ivysaur obviously evolved to work with the bulb symbiotically so he could have muscles built to expel them (in fact, he probably DID evolve like that, it's evolutionary more convenient then the plant doing it).

Plants dont have muscles.

 

[payasofobia]

In before wall of text detailing why Adum is wrong.

You were right.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You were right.

Counter wall of text explaining why he failed to read.


Most ridiculous thing is that he refuses to admit that fungi can be adapted to have relationships with living organisms (parasitic, symbiotic, or neutral) in spite of numerous examples to the contrary.

If not removed soon, or if it passes through your epidermid and manages to reach circualtory system, it can kill you. Fungus kill, and alot.

Depends on the type of fungus, for most that's true.

I PROVIDED EXAMPLES WHERE THIS ISN'T THE CASE BECAUSE THE FUNGUS IS IN A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH THE ORGANISM!

How do you know it wont happen? Maybe it could happen, you cant deny it, because it may in fact happen. There isnt anything as "more plausible" or "less plausible" when making assumptions about the future, because anything can happen. So just dicard this.

Stuff that opening defies known scientific fact will never happen (at least not in this reality).

Gravity will never not exist.


In case you missed the memo, this entire thread has been about figuring out WHAT DEFIES KNOW SCIENTIFIC LAW!

Nothing in this thread exists.

And based on todays reality no plants can poison you to death.

Milkweed.

I presume dogs will fly. Cant you prove they wont?

Dogs can fly, take one on a plane, or give it a jetpack, or something like that.


If you mean unassisted flight, then I can prove you wrong, take a look at it's genetic code. If it flies, I can tell you right now that it either is not a dog (proven by the fact that it cannot produce viable offspring with dogs) or that it's the subject of bizaar medical experiments (which violates unassisted).

Dogs can fly then. It is not unrealistic, because you dont know what will happen to earth and how the ecosystem will change, or if somehow dogs will need to fly to survive making them fly. Its all assumptions, there is no more plausible or less plausible, because the future is undetermined.

See above.

There's plenty that prevents a dog from unassisted flight, just like there's plenty preventing most of the things we talked about in this thread.

He cant shoot it, and to fertilizy anything you need a male of that thing, or something similar. Stuff dont just grew up from the oblivion.

*facepalm*


THE "SPORE" WAS FERTILIZED BEFORE BEING RELEASED, THAT'S WHAT THE POLLEN WAS FOR!

Not realistic in RL....

How so?

Plants dont have muscles.

But the lizard attached to the plant does.

 

[REL38]

@Adumb

Spores are able to drift by the air because of their lightweight. The pollen Ivy uses is too heavy to transport by the wind which is why he needs other bugs to do it for him.
And the ejection shown in the games showed them shooting out seeds of all things. I really don't think Ivy would have control over something that doesn't have nerve ending like a plant.

So how do you propose that Ivy produces these "spores" if you're using them as most of your basis?

The way Ivy's flower lives is by being super smelly to attract bugs and gets it's pollination that way. The flies can work as Ivy's food supply. That way they both get what they need. No spores would be needed to reproduce and the smell would ward away predators. This eliminates the need for any type of "made up spores".

This makes more sense to how Ivy would work through evolution. It doesn't require killer poison "spore-ites". Evolution doesn't make leaps and bounds like that or at least not to such an extent of mixing two completely different properties as spores and pollen :/

 

[payasofobia]

I dunno Adum, I think he is right.

I did not bother to read all the wall of texts in this MU so this may be wrong, but I'll just throw this out there:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bulbasaur_(Pokémon)

The game says that the thing on Ivy's back its a plant, not a mushroom.

So, technically, if it is a plant then doesn't that mean that it is crippled by the plant's lack of soil to obtain minerals?

 

[tocador]

Counter wall of text explaining why he failed to read.


Most ridiculous thing is that he refuses to admit that fungi can be adapted to have relationships with living organisms (parasitic, symbiotic, or neutral) in spite of numerous examples to the contrary.

The most rediculous thing you have yet to understand is that those are specific cases that dont even compare. On both of them(i researched) the fungus only process a small amout of organic matter because it is small, and in fact the animals use the fungus for other stuff.

In ivy case, you have at least 2 fungus that are almost ivy's size, whereas in previous cases the fungus was small. So dont compare the incomparable.

Depends on the type of fungus, for most that's true.

I PROVIDED EXAMPLES WHERE THIS ISN'T THE CASE BECAUSE THE FUNGUS IS IN A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH THE ORGANISM!

Your examples suck to compare with this MU.

Stuff that opening defies known scientific fact will never happen (at least not in this reality).

Gravity will never not exist.

Sure i agree with that.

In case you missed the memo, this entire thread has been about figuring out WHAT DEFIES KNOW SCIENTIFIC LAW!

Nothing in this thread exists.

We know that, but thanks for clarifying to the noobs.....

Milkweed.

Polen? Not really.

Dogs can fly, take one on a plane, or give it a jetpack, or something like that.


If you mean unassisted flight, then I can prove you wrong, take a look at it's genetic code. If it flies, I can tell you right now that it either is not a dog (proven by the fact that it cannot produce viable offspring with dogs) or that it's the subject of bizaar medical experiments (which violates unassisted).

One things happen in nature by itself, and dosent need human interference: Sometimes because of we dont know what, animals(everything) genetics can suddenly change, sure its a rare thing, but it happens. And maybe one day this can happen in such a way dogs get wings. And theoretically, it is possible.

See above.

See above.

There's plenty that prevents a dog from unassisted flight, just like there's plenty preventing most of the things we talked about in this thread.

See above.

And, thats why we cant count future in, because it dosent exist :D.

*facepalm*


THE "SPORE" WAS FERTILIZED BEFORE BEING RELEASED, THAT'S WHAT THE POLLEN WAS FOR!

Ok, lets assume it is possible for a fertilized spore to attach to someone.... It would take at least a week to grow IF the animal imune system dosent kill it before it does. So then?

How so?





But the lizard attached to the plant does.

?

 

[REL38]

Some types of Milkweed are known to be toxic so it can be deadly to humans, I guess.


Just to add with an example:

Flower Pollen (the ones that bees pollinate) is like a water balloon with sticky tape all over it. A giant bee comes onto it and the sticky water balloon sticks to the bee and is transported to become pollinated.

Spores are like balloons with, say, gas inside of them. They're expelled by very large amounts, but only 1% of them will find a suitable spot to grow.

What you're doing is taking a sticky water balloon and putting it inside another balloon to make it float outta there . . . . . that doesn't work at all.

Flower pollen is already too heavy to travel by wind so it's not going to work if you put it into a "spore-ite" in hopes of it travelling the wind that way.

 

[adumbrodeus]

@Adumb

Spores are able to drift by the air because of their lightweight. The pollen Ivy uses is too heavy to transport by the wind which is why he needs other bugs to do it for him.
And the ejection shown in the games showed them shooting out seeds of all things. I really don't think Ivy would have control over something that doesn't have nerve ending like a plant.

So how do you propose that Ivy produces these "spores" if you're using them as most of your basis?

Finally!

We're on the practical aspects of this instead of vocabulary.


Let me address this first, Ivysaur probably can't control the plant directly (it's not impossible, but rather unlikely, though he could've evolved hormones that simulated it for controlled growth similar to a venus flytrap).

But what's more likely is that it's indirectly controlled by adjecent muscles which put pressure on the plant causing the ejection of materials. Presumably, the plant evolved at least partially around this strategy, so it would probably "chamber" them in some way, allowing for forcible ejection.


Remember, I'm suggesting that the pollen could also be poisonous (either or both).


If it was poisonious, then having a high size to weight ratio would have an evolutionary advantage.

This makes more sense to how Ivy would work through evolution. It doesn't require killer poison "spore-ites". Evolution doesn't make leaps and bounds like that :/

The thing is, it's a very "heavyweight" entity. It's unlikely that they'll be that many per generation, therefore it would need defensive measures, furthermore, the plant would need to have an evolutionary advantage to ivysaur, or it would evolve a resistance to it very quickly or it would be extremely rare because they'd avoid infection (similar to how the ants avoided infection).


Again, the spore is only one possible method of doing this, the pollen would serve.



But ivysaur also needs a method of transmitting the bulb, it would NOT be born like that.

The most rediculous thing you have yet to understand is that those are specific cases that dont even compare. On both of them(i researched) the fungus only process a small amout of organic matter because it is small, and in fact the animals use the fungus for other stuff.

In ivy case, you have at least 2 fungus that are almost ivy's size, whereas in previous cases the fungus was small. So dont compare the incomparable.

That's a far cry from "can't".


It needs to :

A. Have a method of preventing encroachment beyond the preditermined area.

B. Have a provide the fungus with enough norishment to survive.


If it can do both, there's no issue.

We know that, but thanks for clarifying to the noobs.....

You're the one who was disagreeing with it.

Polen? Not really.

So?

One things happen in nature by itself, and dosent need human interference: Sometimes because of we dont know what, animals(everything) genetics can suddenly change, sure its a rare thing, but it happens. And maybe one day this can happen in such a way dogs get wings. And theoretically, it is possible.

You're missing the point though, if so it would be genetically different enough to be a different species.

Ok, lets assume it is possible for a fertilized spore to attach to someone.... It would take at least a week to grow IF the animal imune system dosent kill it before it does. So then?

We're talking about it having a secondary effect, specifically a powerful toxin.

Some types of Milkweed are known to be toxic so it can be deadly to humans, I guess.


Just to add with an example:

Flower Pollen (the ones that bees pollinate) is like a water balloon with sticky tape all over it. A giant bee comes onto it and the sticky water balloon sticks to the bee and is transported to become pollinated.

Spores are like balloons with, say, gas inside of them. They're expelled by very large amounts, but only 1% of them will find a suitable spot to grow.

What you're doing is taking a sticky water balloon and putting it inside another balloon to make it float outta there . . . . . that doesn't work at all.

Flower pollen is already too heavy to travel by wind so it's not going to work if you put it into a "spore-ite" in hopes of it travelling the wind that way.

I think you misunderstood me.


The spores are separate from the pollen.


I was suggesting that when fertilized, it could produce "spores" from the fertilized eggs, their purpose would be to transfer the plant to new hosts.

 

[xepherthree]

Y'know, sorry to intrude on your text walls, but I think JOE! moved on ^-^ We're on D3 vs. Marth, not still Ivy vs. Pika. It's interesting, but not needed.

 

[Emperor Time]

EL OH EL.

Well, 1-3 hit will kill Marth...but he's probably not gonna get touched and poke D3 to death.

 

[payasofobia]

In all honesty, this Ivy vs Pika match seemed more interesting.

And Marth wins this match. We already disscused how heavy real hammers are in the real world. A hammer with a head THAT big+the mechanical parts inside it will make it nite impossible to wield or even MOVE properly.

This thing is already almost too heavy to be used as a weapon.

This is a war hammer. Notice the small head for better weapon handling.

This is ridiculous.

Marth will just poke a weaponless DDD to death, no sweat.

 

[JOE!]

W T F HAPPENED

IN THE TWO HOURS


I WAS IN CLASS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!​

moving on, Ivy canonically would actually have POISON POWDER

so in fact, all he'd really need is a way to pump it out, the enemy breathes it, game over.

 

[payasofobia]

That's a bull**** argument and you know it.

Anyway, I am ready to move on to the next MU, and I am not talking about the Ivy vs Pika MU.

Marth wins because DDD's hammer is way too heavy to use and Marth has better physical attributes than the king of everything that its slow and fat.

 

[xepherthree]

Thank you. If yall wanna argue about it, do it on aim or msn or something, because the walls are starting to get annoying.

Marth>Penguin
Move on pl0x

 

[Jobes]

Thank you. If yall wanna argue about it, do it on aim or msn or something, because the walls are starting to get annoying.

Marth>Penguin
Move on pl0x

Agreed. I can't think of any logical argument as to why Dedede could beat Marth. Even though i hate marth's face.

 

[JOE!]

new MU soon...

 

[REL38]

POISON POWDER?

Do you know how rediculous that sounds?

Srsly. Plants don't magically produce powder, a refined substance, outta nowhere.

@Adumb

Utilizing nerve endings or the like to "create" a forced ejection doesn't seem to plausible. The ejection of spores is from a chemical/biological reaction. Water is needed for ejection to be present in fungi.

By what you're saying, I'm imagining Ivy using back muscles to "pop a pimple" and create the ejection.

Is this what you're getting at or am I just seeing it wrong :/

Next, exactly how are you saying the "spore-ites" will transport the fertilized pollen?
Having a bunch clumped around a pollen is very inconventional, to say the least.
Besides, normal spores are made up of reproductive cells. That's really all it's made out of and is the only reason they're created. Empty spores with nothing in them wouldn't really be spores at all, just . . . nothing really.
I'd imagine "spore-ites" wouldn't be happening if it's lost the main principality behind it which is transporting the new organisms inside of it.


As to the evolution thing, I'm gonna give my perceptive on how my theory could possibly work.

The "saur" Pokemon come into existence when two Venusaurs get the nasty on. (They still face the same movement limitation Ivy does, but I think movement will be very sluggish, but possible).
A Bulbasaur is birthed, but without its bulb so it's pretty much a weird toad. But said Bulba has a certain skin ability on its back that proves very nourishible to plants to the extent that dirt isn't needed and at the same time attracts insects.
The insects that pollinate Venusaur's plant would drop the fertilized pollen onto the young Bulba to eventually create a bulb and thusly makes a Bulbasaur.

The "saurs" can exist in large groups or packs for protection. The foul stench would ward away predators and welcome insects proving as the food source for the "saurs". The "saurs" age with their plant.

This seems to work imo which can also be an alternative rather than using "spore-ites".

I'd also like to note that Ivy still has a "bulb" on his back which is an underdeveloped flower.
Pollen and such are still being formed and is closed off to allow for development. Only Venusaur would have the ability to reproduce the plant and mate with other Venusaurs.
Ivy would just be a adolescent "saur".


@Xeph

The only reason I'm still debating this is cuz JOE moved on quicker than I could get my response in.
Being at college is a limitation to how often I can be on here in the morning, which is when he made a decision. I feel like I was ripped off by not being given time to give my rebuttle so Ima give it now.
Adumb got an exception for the Army vs Mercenary battle so I expect the same.

Besides, there was NOTHING to discuss in the D3 vs Marf fight.
Just win for Marf.

 

[JOE!]

@ rel:

you never announced you had somethign to add....

anywho, there are still many theories of which Ivy could expel some sort of poison in RL, which i do not wanna get into because of personal issues ATM, just let the match go as it did...

 

[payasofobia]

Also, JOE!, it's not neccesary to change the outcome of the Ivy vs Pika match.



Ivy is: 0.9906 meters high and weights 28.7 pounds.

Pika: 0.4064 meters high and weights 13.2 pounds.

Pika is still way too small to do anything significant to Ivy. And while we are at it, if we were to apply reality nerfs on Ivy, then it would be fair to apply reality nerfs on Pika too. That means no electricity.

And no, you can't apply the same eel principle on Pika because he simply does not have the body shape and size to house the organs that produce electricity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel

Like I said, 4/5 of the eel's body is made of those organs.



Pika is screwed no matter what.

 

[payasofobia]

Double post for space purposes.


Can wario use his bombs....wait, that's not needed. Zelda has no ranged attacks.

 

[JOE!]

the elec pouches could work as smaller shock enducers than the eel