TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

Hey JOE! just a question. How come the title of this matchup says:



It says "magic vs. technoloy" but then right after than it says "well obviously Pit wont have magic" It really doesnt make sense XD

couldnt think of a better title


Anywho, Why is everyone assuming Fox's laser will allways reflect rigth back at him? all he needs to do is move the gun an inch and the refleced laser will miss him by feet at long range, and make it an inaccurate reflection at short

 

[TempestBlade]

Why would he shoot the shield?

what I mean is that if it came down to Pit using his swords, Fox still can use the gun

Side B?
Even if he loses his shield (however that would happen) he can still deflect projectiles by spinning his swords like ancient martial artists used to do with their staffs

 

[tocador]

Side B?
Even if he loses his shield (however that would happen) he can still deflect projectiles by spinning his swords like ancient martial artists used to do with their staffs

Did the ancient martial artist used to deflect laser shots? Yeah.... Dont think so.

 

[D3w3y]

I think this ends in a stalemate.

Neither Pit nor Fox have any safe/viable options to approach or even anyway to do damage to each other.

Plus Fox would have to be an IDIOT to continue firing his gun if Pit is just holding out his shield as some people are saying keep the pressure on Pit by continuously firing shots. He can not just easily dodge a reflected laser shot and that would be extremely tiring if even possible.

Has anyone ever played laser tag? Now take one of those guns shot it into a mirror and dodge the reflection and tell me how that goes. Real lasers travel to fast to be avoided.

So in the end this match up would happen like this:

Pit would pull out his shield immediately and hide behind it. Fox would stand there with his gun out looking for an opening and if he sees Pit's head pop out from behind the shield and misses his shot slightly and hits the shield Fox is dead if he hits Pit, Pit is dead.

In conclusion there would be a big field with a boy hiding behind a mirror in one spot and a fox in a vest running around like an idiot scared to take a shot.

STALEMATE.

 

[JOE!]

The shield will only kill fox if it is perfectly vertical, and fox's laser is perfectly allinged for it to go exactly back at him

 

[D3w3y]

Are you going to take a chance like that? Great risk with very little chance of reward.

 

[JOE!]

Are you going to take a chance like that? Great risk with very little chance of reward.

all im saying is that it wont happen every time

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

Yeah its a stalemate they can both counter each other's arrows/lasers with their respective shields/reflectors and the flight/speed ideas become useless considering neither of them would go near each other for melee attacks. Its too even to say one of them has a clear advantage, eventually they would tire each other out. and joe ur post count is 666 xD

 

[tocador]

No its not a stalemate. As long as pit CANT hurt fox, and fox can hurt pit if he tries to hurt fox, it give the edge to fox.

Fox advantage ^^. And like i said, pit is playing defensivily, and fox aggro. And for someone to play "campy" this must mean they are in a somewhat dissadvantage, so yeah, this match goes to fox!

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

But if pit's shield reflects the lasers fox shoots at him then it becomes an attack back at him even if it isnt perfectly aligned it still throws the laser back out there, and if fox is continuously shooting the lasers then the chances of pit adjusting his shield to reflect fox's assaults would rise and he might be able to land a reflected blow (even if it is not fatal and ends up hitting fox's leg or something) because the speed at which the lasers come back at fox would be too great for him to reflect. His own his assaults would eventually become his downfall. By defending himself pit is also counter attacking fox, who as well could reflect and counter attack which is why it should be a stalemate

 

[JOE!]

But why would fox keep firing?

Hes not a ******....hed try to find something else, approach or trick Pit

also, how would pit know how to adjust the shield without looking?

What Im looking at now is:

When it comes down to Pit killing Fox, how can he do so without getting Lazored?

 

[tocador]

But if pit's shield reflects the lasers fox shoots at him then it becomes an attack back at him even if it isnt perfectly aligned it still throws the laser back out there, and if fox is continuously shooting the lasers then the chances of pit adjusting his shield to reflect fox's assaults would rise and he might be able to land a reflected blow (even if it is not fatal and ends up hitting fox's leg or something) because the speed at which the lasers come back at fox would be too great for him to reflect. His own his assaults would eventually become his downfall. By defending himself pit is also counter attacking fox, who as well could reflect and counter attack which is why it should be a stalemate

Why in earth would fox shoot the shield if he knows it is going to reflect his lasers to him? Only time he is going to shoot is if he sees pit, and like a sharpshooter that he is, he wont miss. And pit cant really "adjust" the shield to hit fox, cause mainly because pit cant see fox, as his shield cover his hole body, including eyes.

So if fox was shooting in a slightly diagonal angle, pit couldnt know, therefore fox will never be in real danger.

Fox advantage!!!!

 

[tocador]

But why would fox keep firing?

Hes not a ******....hed try to find something else, approach or trick Pit

also, how would pit know how to adjust the shield without looking?

What Im looking at now is:

When it comes down to Pit killing Fox, how can he do so without getting Lazored?

The only 2 ways to pit kill Fox:

1.Praying to reflect a laser on him, wich wont happen likely

2.Rambo mode with dualblades, going bersek on fox.

So yeah, Fox > Pit :D!

 

[D3w3y]

No its not a stalemate. As long as pit CANT hurt fox, and fox can hurt pit if he tries to hurt fox, it give the edge to fox.

Fox advantage ^^. And like i said, pit is playing defensivily, and fox aggro. And for someone to play "campy" this must mean they are in a somewhat dissadvantage, so yeah, this match goes to fox!

Playing defensive is his ADVANTAGE so that argument doesn't work.

 

[D3w3y]

Why in earth would fox shoot the shield if he knows it is going to reflect his lasers to him? Only time he is going to shoot is if he sees pit, and like a sharpshooter that he is, he wont miss.

Even the most well trained warriors do not have perfect accuracy especially while moving with a pistol. Hitting a guy in the head from a distance is not easy for anyone.

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

Couldn't pit do the same? He can trick fox as well, but then again who can't trick their opponent into making a mistake? He could fly and shield himself at the same time making him a moving/protected target. While in the air all he would need is a quick second or two to put down his shield and fire off an arrow that he can control to circle around fox and trick him into using his reflector at an inopportune time and immediately hiding behind the shield again. The height pit can gain with his wings can also give him enough time to pull this off.

 

[tocador]

Playing defensive is his ADVANTAGE so that argument doesn't work.

When is doing the only thing you can to survive your "advantage" over someone? If pit dosent play that way, he will die. Whereas fox can do whatever he wants: Run/Shooting from range/Going to melee, anywhere he can is unlikely he will straight DIE like pit will if he does anything other that hidding.

And even then, it isnt a advantage cause fox can abuse the hell of pit even when in the defensive position.

 

[tocador]

Couldn't pit do the same? He can trick fox as well, but then again who can't trick their opponent into making a mistake? He could fly and shield himself at the same time making him a moving/protected target. While in the air all he would need is a quick second or two to put down his shield and fire off an arrow that he can control to circle around fox and trick him into using his reflector at an inopportune time and immediately hiding behind the shield again. The height pit can gain with his wings can also give him enough time to pull this off.

How can you "put your body size shield" away while in the air? And more, firing a bow takes 2 hands to do, and using a shield one, so the only way to put the shield away in the air would be throwing it on the floor or being COMPLETLY unprotected and taking the shoot.

And plus, while carring the shield pit cant see cra* and it takess at least 2/3 seconds to aim and shoot a bow. Plus, even before shooting, when putting a arrow on it he would need to uncover himself, so yeah, this flying thing is FAIL.

And the shield do not protect the wing while flying, making fox win a direct-hit in pit wings wich can lead to a kill.

 

[tocador]

Even the most well trained warriors do not have perfect accuracy especially while moving with a pistol. Hitting a guy in the head from a distance is not easy for anyone.

Thats why you take practice shot's before. Plus, fox get to shoot many times before pit even get to aim his bow, making it almost impratical to hit with it.

and there is the fact taht lasers arent affected by wind/gravity(dosent matter withing a close range) and are dam fast, making it almost impossible to doge, and hard to miss.

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

The shield isnt the size of pit it's about half his size or maybe even a little larger. He carries it on his back like most shields. And if pit is high enough i dont think fox could aim very well and hit him dead on, especially if pit can take cover in some clouds (though the chance of there being clouds is minimal, but i dont really know where they are fighting to begin with xD), but anyway my point is by using his flight pit can get to a point where it would be really difficult for fox to hit him and he could have a little time to fire and aim an arrow.

 

[:mad:]

Nice triple post, tocandor.

They already said Pit can't fly iirc. Only glide.

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

Oh if pit cant fly then never mind what i said : /

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

No its not a stalemate. As long as pit CANT hurt fox, and fox can hurt pit if he tries to hurt fox, it give the edge to fox.

Fox advantage ^^. And like i said, pit is playing defensivily, and fox aggro. And for someone to play "campy" this must mean they are in a somewhat dissadvantage, so yeah, this match goes to fox!

Your logic is so full of fail it's ridiculous.

Pit CAN'T hurt Fox. We know this. Fox can hurt Pit, but only if Pit tries to hurt Fox. Why the hell would Pit try to hurt Fox IF HE ISN'T ABLE TO?

Fox is playing Passive Aggressive. Shooting, but not running in wildly.

Lmao your last sentence is so full of ignorance it's hard for me to comprehend how you honestly believe that.

Pit is playing campy because he wants to LIVE not because he's at a disadvantage. The only reason Pit is playing campy is because that's the only way he won't lose. Your logic is that "hur hur pit's campin he must kno he guna lose lul." Umm no.

Think of Wario in Brawl. 3rd best character, his playstyle revolves around camping. You don't camp as Wario because you're at a disadvantage.

Flawed logic to say the least.

 

[tocador]

The shield isnt the size of pit it's about half his size or maybe even a little larger. He carries it on his back like most shields. And if pit is high enough i dont think fox could aim very well and hit him dead on, especially if pit can take cover in some clouds (though the chance of there being clouds is minimal, but i dont really know where they are fighting to begin with xD), but anyway my point is by using his flight pit can get to a point where it would be really difficult for fox to hit him and he could have a little time to fire and aim an arrow.

Nope, the shield is the size om him whole, The game kid ikarus proves it to us.

And if it wasnt, the pit would be scre**, cause then he wouldnt be able to protect his whole body while shielding and just lose right away.

So yeah, THE SHIELD IS his size, so your whole argument is flawed.

Yeah sorry for the triple post, is just that it makes it easier to quote individual separatly if someoen wants to quote me =/

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

Nope, the shield is the size om him whole, The game kid ikarus proves it to us.

And if it wasnt, the pit would be scre**, cause then he wouldnt be able to protect his whole body while shielding and just lose right away.

So yeah, THE SHIELD IS his size, so your whole argument is flawed.

In the brawl shield version he has to bend down to it behind it so its smaller than him and obviously he can just continue to crouch behind the shield it wouldn't be that much different than if the shield were his entire body size

and solid ur being a little mean D:

 

[tocador]

Your logic is so full of fail it's ridiculous.

Pit CAN'T hurt Fox. We know this. Fox can hurt Pit, but only if Pit tries to hurt Fox. Why the hell would Pit try to hurt Fox IF HE ISN'T ABLE TO?

Fox is playing Passive Aggressive. Shooting, but not running in wildly.

Lmao your last sentence is so full of ignorance it's hard for me to comprehend how you honestly believe that.

Pit is playing campy because he wants to LIVE not because he's at a disadvantage. The only reason Pit is playing campy is because that's the only way he won't lose. Your logic is that "hur hur pit's campin he must kno he guna lose lul." Umm no.

Think of Wario in Brawl. 3rd best character, his playstyle revolves around camping. You don't camp as Wario because you're at a disadvantage.

Flawed logic to say the least.

No sir your logic is flawed.

LEts use the wario example you gave then to make you eat you fail ^^.

Why wario camps? Hu? Why wario camps?

In simples terms we could say he camps cause in a direct combat with his enemy he would lose right? This mean what: Wario is the underdog and he is WEAKER then the opponent, so he resort to play some thing that he can take advantage, so he camps.

But then, how will he camp if lets say both are at 0%? He cant, the only thing he can do is bait a attack, wish to the oponnet to fail and get some% so he can camp.

Now i ask you, did you see how ignorant you are now? Wario was never in advantage, he needed to play on someone's mistake, and hum, when you need to HOPE for someone to mess up so you can win, how can you say this is a advantage aggaisnt someone that if dosent mess up is going to win?

Understand now your fool? Wario camps 'cause he in the first place cant do anything besides playing from his opponent mistake, and if i can recall thats called "luck".

So if someone can only play purely base on LUCK, how can he win/have a advantage on his own? Yeah i know, failling is hard to accept, so please dont call me ignorant and accuse me of things you "think" are wrong, when in fact they arent.

Fail logic is fail.

 

[Crystanium]

In the brawl shield version he has to bend down to it behind it so its smaller than him and obviously he can just continue to crouch behind the shield it wouldn't be that much different than if the shield were his entire body size

and solid ur being a little mean D:

I made note that Pit's Mirror Shield is able to cover him as shown in Kid Icarus. He doesn't need to crouch at all. When I was debating, this is the incarnation of Pit that I was using.

And no, camping ≠ disadvantage.

Let's keep the insults out, people. Just because I am a moderator of the Samus room, doesn't mean I can't infract anyone here for not keeping it clean. A debate doesn't have to be heated. If you can't accept someone's opinion, and if it gets you frustrated, remove yourself for some time, even if it's a day, and then come back.

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

o sry i missed ur earlier post about pits shield size and the apparently an earlier post saying pit cant fly only glide xD

 

[smashbot226]

couldnt think of a better title

Space Vs. Heaven is cool too.

And Pit, though human, is also an angel. We don't really KNOW the anatomical structure of an angel, but we DO know their bones are hollow enough to let them glide, assuming they ARE. So Pit should have an ability to glide. But that would be a BAD thing.

Fox could just pick Pit off from the sky because what can Pit do while gliding?

*CRICKET CRICKET*

Right.

Another point to bring up: Fox's gun. It shoots lasers, undoubtedly. But the ammo appears to be superheated plasma projectiles: it isn't a bullet, which will pierce skin, but effectively, a solid form of a bad burn. IT may NOT kill Pit on strike, but it will definitely wound him.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

No sir your logic is flawed.

LEts use the wario example you gave then to make you eat you fail ^^.

Why wario camps? Hu? Why wario camps?

In simples terms we could say he camps cause in a direct combat with his enemy he would lose right? This mean what: Wario is the underdog and he is WEAKER then the opponent, so he resort to play some thing that he can take advantage, so he camps.

But then, how will he camp if lets say both are at 0%? He cant, the only thing he can do is bait a attack, wish to the oponnet to fail and get some% so he can camp.

Now i ask you, did you see how ignorant you are now? Wario was never in advantage, he needed to play on someone's mistake, and hum, when you need to HOPE for someone to mess up so you can win, how can you say this is a advantage aggaisnt someone that if dosent mess up is going to win?

Understand now your fool? Wario camps 'cause he in the first place cant do anything besides playing from his opponent mistake, and if i can recall thats called "luck".

So if someone can only play purely base on LUCK, how can he win/have a advantage on his own? Yeah i know, failling is hard to accept, so please dont call me ignorant and accuse me of things you "think" are wrong, when in fact they arent.

Fail logic is fail.

First off your post is really hard to read.

Wario camps because he wants to win, as does Pit.

Pit camps because it's the best thing to do, as does Wario.

I agree, Wario and Pit know that they can't win if they play aggressively, but the point of my analogy was to say that that doesn't make them worse. Your logic was that since Pit camps and he knows he can't win if he plays aggressively, he is a worse character for that reason. I used the Wario analogy to show that this is false. Wario is a better character because of camping, as is Pit in this analogy.


Moving on from that, because you clearly didn't understand my point with the Wario thingy, why exactly do you think Fox can kill Pit.

To start I'll post why Fox can't hurt Pit.

1. Pit has a large shield to protect himself.
2. Said shield reflects Fox's bullets.
3. Pit has a helmet, so he can look over the shield safely.
4. If Fox tries to approach, Pit runs backwards behind his shield.
5. Fox cannot sneak up on Pit, as Fox is wearing boots so Pit can hear him approaching.
6. If Fox tries to strafe him and shoot him from the side, Pit looks up from the shield and sees him, then moves the shield accordingly.

Stalemate.

 

[Crystanium]

Another point to bring up: Fox's gun. It shoots lasers, undoubtedly. But the ammo appears to be superheated plasma projectiles: it isn't a bullet, which will pierce skin, but effectively, a solid form of a bad burn. IT may NOT kill Pit on strike, but it will definitely wound him.

Superheated plasma? Source that the Blaster fires superheated plasma? Looks like a laser to me.

 

[aceofdiamonds825]

Superheated plasma? Source that the Blaster fires superheated plasma? Looks like a laser to me.

Does fox's laser have a recharge time or a need to reload?

 

[Crystanium]

Does fox's laser have a recharge time or a need to reload?

Not that I am aware of.

 

[tocador]

First off your post is really hard to read.

Wario camps because he wants to win, as does Pit.

Pit camps because it's the best thing to do, as does Wario.

I agree, Wario and Pit know that they can't win if they play aggressively, but the point of my analogy was to say that that doesn't make them worse. Your logic was that since Pit camps and he knows he can't win if he plays aggressively, he is a worse character for that reason. I used the Wario analogy to show that this is false. Wario is a better character because of camping, as is Pit in this analogy.


Moving on from that, because you clearly didn't understand my point with the Wario thingy, why exactly do you think Fox can kill Pit.

To start I'll post why Fox can't hurt Pit.

1. Pit has a large shield to protect himself.
2. Said shield reflects Fox's bullets.
3. Pit has a helmet, so he can look over the shield safely.
4. If Fox tries to approach, Pit runs backwards behind his shield.
5. Fox cannot sneak up on Pit, as Fox is wearing boots so Pit can hear him approaching.
6. If Fox tries to strafe him and shoot him from the side, Pit looks up from the shield and sees him, then moves the shield accordingly.

Stalemate.

Ok sorry for being over-agressive.

You said earlier that camping isnt a disadvantage because it is fightng to win, but as i can say, to camp is to be in a not-good position, a disadvantage if you may. And thats the point im trying to prove here.

I know they cant hurt themselves and such because its almost a stalemate, but you need to think abbout some cons on being in the campy side:

1.Always under constant pressure
2.Cant take control of the fight
3.Only way to win is solely based on fox mistake

With these in hands i can say that its much more accurate for pit to mess up first then to fox, giving fox the advantage. IM NOT SAIYING that camping is bad, im saying that it requires more prescise moves and it limits your actions. The both then makes you more likely to make a mistake, meaning that fox has a advantge, maybe not a direct but a indirect advantage.

Thats my point :D!

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

OK, now I understand your position.

In the show, it takes 1000 matches into account to erase luck, so let's get rid of the luck factor.

Pit is under constant pressure, but all he has to do is hold up his shield.

Pit isn't going to try to win at all, he just needs to camp.

That's why I say it's a draw.

 

[tocador]

OK, now I understand your position.

In the show, it takes 1000 matches into account to erase luck, so let's get rid of the luck factor.

Pit is under constant pressure, but all he has to do is hold up his shield.

Pit isn't going to try to win at all, he just needs to camp.

That's why I say it's a draw.

Yeah, if you count that noone of them makes a mistake, its a draw i think U.u

 

[D3w3y]

Ok sorry for being over-agressive.

You said earlier that camping isnt a disadvantage because it is fightng to win, but as i can say, to camp is to be in a not-good position, a disadvantage if you may. And thats the point im trying to prove here.

I know they cant hurt themselves and such because its almost a stalemate, but you need to think abbout some cons on being in the campy side:

1.Always under constant pressure
2.Cant take control of the fight
3.Only way to win is solely based on fox mistake

With these in hands i can say that its much more accurate for pit to mess up first then to fox, giving fox the advantage. IM NOT SAIYING that camping is bad, im saying that it requires more prescise moves and it limits your actions. The both then makes you more likely to make a mistake, meaning that fox has a advantge, maybe not a direct but a indirect advantage


Thats my point :D!

The quote that comes to mind best here is "The best offense is a good defense."

Pit camps because Fox can not break his defenses. This will get frustrating and a bit tiring to Fox and that's where you want your opponent to be because that's when mistakes are made.

Because we are trying to make this real life I will give you a real life example of a sniper and a front line soldier, both are well trained but one has an advantage while being further back waiting for the chance to strike while the other uses his tactics to try and take down the sniper. Just because the sniper is sitting back doesn't mean he is in a bad position.

So both of them can make mistakes just as easily.

 

[zeldspazz]

Ok I was looking at the old Kid icarus games and it looks like Pit is weilding his shield while he is flying, and he is able to shoot also, so I'm just wondering if the shield somehow hooks to his torso, or if it is a shield at all =\

 

[tocador]

The quote that comes to mind best here is "The best offense is a good defense."

Pit camps because Fox can not break his defenses. This will get frustrating and a bit tiring to Fox and that's where you want your opponent to be because that's when mistakes are made.

Because we are trying to make this real life I will give you a real life example of a sniper and a front line soldier, both are well trained but one has an advantage while being further back waiting for the chance to strike while the other uses his tactics to try and take down the sniper. Just because the sniper is sitting back doesn't mean he is in a bad position.

So both of them can make mistakes just as easily.

The real quote is: "the best defense the ofense" not what you said U.u!

And you can really compare pit as a sniper and for a marine. Because a sniper could take a soldier before he approached, while if pit tries to shoot he will get shot!

I'd say it is more like a Sniper with a aim right on the other sniper that is hidden behind a wall!

 

[JOE!]

unfortunatley, what this broils down to here is, in the fight: who would finish who more often?

Pit can camp all day long, and fox can shoot all day long, butwho do you think is more likley to finish the other off?

based on either mistakes or strategy?

because atm its a 0/0 ratio...