TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

NO

how much do you know about evolution...
heck dolphins lived on land once
and we came from lancelets
do you know what lancelets are? there fish...
yet we don't have gills...
I'm just trying to say anything can happen in evolution
it doesn't exactly mean the origional species had the attributes of all the sub-species and became specialized...
a lot of insects evolved from anthropods... that lived in the ocean. now look they die in a glass of water.

EDIT: remember what somebody said (it was a couple of pages ago) they respirate through their leaves at the ends of their stems once the poison reaches the leaf and diffuses into all of their cells they die... adumbrodeus stressed on the fact that this is potent stuff

The problem with that is, theres no thousadns of years gap between the two types, one essentially morphs into the other.

Also, white pikmin can change back to normals with that spotted flower.

This means that there shouldnt be any real fundamental chemestry change between the two other than size, and the fact white shave poison glands.

If the two are interchangeable like this, the poison shouldnt be fundamentally dangerous to a Pikmin.

WHo knows, the poisons you see int the environment could just be different...

(as for white's special immunity to it, thats just game mechanics to solve puzzles)

 

[uhmuzing]

and also what I said about the idleing affect
if the IC's stall those 6 pikmin might become inactive making them sitting ducks
it makes the *******' jobs easier
although they prolly don know that

They may not stall at first, but they'll notice if the six are sitting on their behinds and looking into space. The only thing is that all Olimar has to do is whistle.

 

[UncleSam]

his whistle range was pretty limited in the series,
of course there were upgrades but that didn't help much

 

[uhmuzing]

his whistle range was pretty limited in the series,
of course there were upgrades but that didn't help much

Its big enough that Olimar might have to move closer every now and then, but tis not too much of a problem IMO.

 

[UncleSam]

it really only depends on whether:
1) IC's actually figure out this(purposely or by accident they could be running for their lives for all I know and they see the pikmin just stop)
2) if Oli acctualy descides to do the ivy strategy and force his 6-8 pikmin to abandon the area to hunt down the *******.

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

Its big enough that Olimar might have to move closer every now and then, but tis not too much of a problem IMO.

But that would bring him in rope range, don't you think?

 

[uhmuzing]

The ICs probably won't be running from the pikmin very often; their tough stuff. But Olimar doesn't really have to be in the center of the cloud; he can be on the edge or wherever he wants to fit the circumstance. And he probably wouldn't tell his troops to go too far off.

@Raf - I still don't see how the rope is that big of a deal...

 

[UncleSam]

If Oli leaves his onion cloud he's dead!
the IC's can make a dash for him
1 holds down Oli while the other takes off/breaks Oli's helmet inevitably killing him in a matter of minutes possibly seconds

 

[uhmuzing]

Well, I wasn't saying he would leave his bubble of defense, and he'd try his best to position his pikmin between him and the ICs. Yes, the further away from the center he is, the more risk there is involved. But Olimar himself is fast for his size coupled with the running shoes.

 

[UncleSam]

yes but so do the IC's those cleats give them grip and balance
plus Olimar is wearing a space suit with a life-support system

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

Well, the rope could be used to lasso Olimar out of the cloud while the other IC is distracting the other pikimin. Even if one IC goes down, Olimar would be screwed when he's yanked toward the IC and the hammer hits his head.

 

[uhmuzing]

yes but so do the IC's those cleats give them grip and balance
plus Olimar is wearing a space suit with a life-support system

Too true...though his life support system seems considerably compact. I have two questions for this part of the arguement...

1. Are six pikmin capable, in your opinion, of taking down a single climber (at the cost of their lives)?

2. If olimar decides to leave the six pikmin to die a valiant death, is he reachable from the cloud by the Climber(s)? He still has four pikmin left, and they're his best.

Well, the rope could be used to lasso Olimar out of the cloud while the other IC is distracting the other pikimin. Even if one IC goes down, Olimar would be screwed when he's yanked toward the IC and the hammer hits his head.

I dunno, I'm still skeptical about this. A rope that long makes it harder to use that way, and it'd be difficult to lasso Olimar in the first place. Even so, by the off chance that he is caught, the Purples will just pull back. The rope is not effective this way IMO; Olimar could easily just take the rope for himself.

 

[UncleSam]

Too true...though his life support system seems considerably compact. I have two questions for this part of the arguement...

1. Are six pikmin capable, in your opinion, of taking down a single climber (at the cost of their lives)?

2. If olimar decides to leave the six pikmin to die a valiant death, is he reachable from the cloud by the Climber(s)? He still has four pikmin left, and they're his best.

1) depends on the pikmin's plan of attack, and pikmin are dumb as stones so...
2) it would pretty much become a stalemate unless Oli forces his 4 defencive pikmin out of their posts leving Oli himself wide open for a chaingrab

I dunno, I'm still skeptical about this. A rope that long makes it harder to use that way, and it'd be difficult to lasso Olimar in the first place. Even so, by the off chance that he is caught, the Purples will just pull back. The rope is not effective this way IMO; Olimar could easily just take the rope for himself.

all they do is climb mountains they'd be so pro with a 60m rope that's not a problem for them
purple pikmin grabbing onto it is, but only if Olimar commands them too, if he's taken by surprise then that's a whole different story

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

all they do is climb mountains they'd be so pro with a 60m rope that's not a problem for them
purple pikmin grabbing onto it is, but only if Olimar commands them too, if he's taken by surprise then that's a whole different story

That's a big if. Olimar has to be taken by surprise, and that all depends on the situation and environment.

 

[UncleSam]

Ok Im back

Spoiler

apparently

@raf- I has teh questions:
how dense is the toxic onion cloud? might this decrease visibility?
of course if so this decreases visibility for both but the IC's have CLIMBED MOUNTAINS
blizzards at high altitudes they could adapt to the slightest movement in a low visibility envoirnment it could be possible for the IC's to find out where Olimar is

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

@ UncleSam: I've never played Pikmin so I wouldn't know the density of the onion cloud. I'm guessing that it's only thick enough to be translusent. So, the IC could see through that easily.

 

[UncleSam]

@ UncleSam: I've never played Pikmin so I wouldn't know the density of the onion cloud. I'm guessing that it's only thick enough to be translusent. So, the IC could see through that easily.

and neither would I because this onion cloud isn't a variable in the game that's why I was asking

+1 post count

 

[kirbywizard]

and neither would I because this onion cloud isn't a variable in the game that's why I was asking

+1 post count

I would say a little less dense then the poison cloud pipes you see in Pikmin 2. Besides Oli does have a glowing antenna.

What the heck are the 6 pikmin doing exactly. Are they just out of range of the onion cloud, waiting for the ice climbers. Also I only thing a white pikmin would get killed by a good hammer swing. The others may get thrown a bit but not killed. Purpel could take a beating but I assume they are close to the onion clouds for back up.

I can really only see the rope being good to try to wrap up or disable three to four non-purple pikmin, if those said 4 pikmin are far away from the main group.

 

[UncleSam]

the other 6 pikmin are forced to leave the cloud unless they want to die and they would have to chase down the IC's
eventually they would become out of command range and become idle or just get killed by the IC's
this leaves us with a stalemate so far, IC's can't approach fearing what's inside the cloud/the cloud itself
and Olimar can't use more pikmin at the risk of losing his'perfect' defence or more precious pikmin

 

[kirbywizard]

the other 6 pikmin are forced to leave the cloud unless they want to die and they would have to chase down the IC's
eventually they would become out of command range and become idle or just get killed by the IC's
this leaves us with a stalemate so far, IC's can't approach fearing what's inside the cloud/the cloud itself
and Olimar can't use more pikmin at the risk of losing his'perfect' defence or more precious pikmin

Well then we have predicament.

 

[UncleSam]

Olimar technically loses on average 70% of his pikmin

Spoiler

6-8 pikmin

by Ivy camping. He's going to need a better stragtegy. one with more of a "less risk / high reward"

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

well Then We Have Predicament.

Oh Snap! A Predicament!

 

[UncleSam]

I'll wait, see if you guys can come up with anything to trump me

+1 post count

 

[Sieguest]

GOD DANGIT WHY'D MY COMPUTER TIME OUT LAST NIGHT!!!????

@adumbrodeus- anatomical dictionary....
since pikmin are like humans......

also the rope use has come off as nerfed...that rope has many uses...
and I think 60 meters is well out of range...
since the breath takes time to spread...using the rope as a pressure tool may work...
as for olimar grabbing the rope...he will be dragged...and that won't be good...physics is working against him there

 

[uhmuzing]

This si regarding Olimar being drug off by the rope.

Like I said earlier, Olimar is gonna have Purples near him all the time to use in an emergency situation (purples withstand poison; they live in the same areas (underground) as white pikmin). purples pulling on rope = ICs being drug off or forced to let go and relinquish the rope.

 

[UncleSam]

SURPRISE ATTACK!!!!111!!!!11!11!one

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

= ICs being drug off or forced to let go and relinquish the rope.

Either that, or the rope snaps.

 

[JOE!]

I'll wait, see if you guys can come up with anything to trump me

+1 post count

dude, i lost faith in you when you said Oli would be open for a chain grab...

Ive allready explained to you that the other pikmin should be immune to the poison:

Its kind of like how arsenic is deadly to use because it destroys our cells. If white pikmin and normal pikmin are the same species (essentially, meaning same biological composure), and teh fact that their genetic strucure can be inter-changeable via the flowers (white flower and dotted flower), they are both immune to the poison, seeing as if the white is not affected, neither is the normal due to having the same cell structure, and the poison obviously not harming it due to it being stored in thw white variety.

The poison traps in pikmin should stop being discussed, it is a puzzle mechanic:

The whites role is to shut those down, as is the red's to rid of fire, blue of geysers, and yellow of electrical currents.

The baddies are not affected by those because it wouldve made the game too easy:

Make oli lure the baddie to a hazard-> profit.

 

[UncleSam]

but the IC's have CLIMBED MOUNTAINS

tell me the rope isn't thick raf...

 

[AGuyNamedRaf]

It isn't thick. lol.

 

[Sieguest]

This si regarding Olimar being drug off by the rope.

Like I said earlier, Olimar is gonna have Purples near him all the time to use in an emergency situation (purples withstand poison; they live in the same areas (underground) as white pikmin). purples pulling on rope = ICs being drug off or forced to let go and relinquish the rope.

Inertia makes this job hard...they'll be dragged...

 

[UncleSam]

This is for you JOE!

land species of pikmin and cave species haven't had enough contact with each other over time on earth to obtain an immunity unless there is some part of the evolutionary line that I'm missing
they all would of had to come from one species and branched into different sub-species

theories saying 1000's of species just popped out at once has been disproven
meaning that the white pikmin just didn't pop up with all the other ones and co-incided for 1000's of years only to migrate to a different area, the origional species of pikmin would of had to migrated to the caves and adapted to the enviornment giving them these toxic abilities this doesn't mean a similar species from the same line JUST HAPPENS to obtain an immunity.





I'm going to ignore this part because I pretty much answered it above

NO

how much do you know about evolution...
heck dolphins lived on land once
and we came from lancelets
do you know what lancelets are? there fish...
yet we don't have gills...
I'm just trying to say anything can happen in evolution
it doesn't exactly mean the origional species had the attributes of all the sub-species and became specialized...
a lot of insects evolved from anthropods... that lived in the ocean. now look they die in a glass of water.

EDIT: remember what somebody said (it was a couple of pages ago) they respirate through their leaves at the ends of their stems once the poison reaches the leaf and diffuses into all of their cells they die... adumbrodeus stressed on the fact that this is potent stuff

re-read this I don't think you understand...
and how would you know that pikmin haven't been around for an extremely long time
and how could you lose faith in teh chaingrabz?!?!

Spoiler

lol i've been joking about the chaingrab this whole time

lol at raf

 

[uhmuzing]

Inertia makes this job hard...they'll be dragged...

Purples themselves are very strong. And so is Olimar, he can do the equivalent of pulling an eight-or-so-year-old and pull it straight from the ground thru dirt and earth.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Both characters are really bad, but I'd say Ice Climbers because they have a size. Anything Olimar tries has no effect. At least they have climber boots with spikes and accidently step on him.

 

[UncleSam]

Purples themselves are very strong. And so is Olimar, he can do the equivalent of pulling an eight-or-so-year-old and pull it straight from the ground thru dirt and earth.

grr he's a MACHO man!!! lol

+1 post count

 

[uhmuzing]

grr he's a MACHO man!!! lol

+1 post count

Bad analogy... You're gonna make me cry.

 

[UncleSam]

I'm running out of ideas here, I can't use the chaingrab joke in the debate anymore since JOE! has lost hope in me

 

[uhmuzing]

Then do you call this a stalemate?

 

[UncleSam]

I'd say 50-50 or 55-45
Olimar has major strategies but some put him at a big risk while the Climbers tie/advantage in other areas.
and in a battle neither would be able to successfully approach each other

 

[JOE!]

re-read this I don't think you understand...
and how would you know that pikmin haven't been around for an extremely long time
and how could you lose faith in teh chaingrabz?!?!

Spoiler

lol i've been joking about the chaingrab this whole time

lol at raf

none of that is relavant, have you read what Ive said?

there is no -GAP- between the two, they CO-EXIST

Furthermore, they are crated from each other, maening they have **** near-identical genetic make up, so if Wite is immune, the rest are