@UncleSam - I'm going to agree sincerely with that. Even the part where Ics are at an advantage.
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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT
- Thread starter JOE!
- Start date
oh man now you seriously don't understand
of course two separate sub-species can coencide but in the evolutionary line they have to of had the same anscestor at some point that anscestor had their whole population and a part of that population broke off and moved into the caves whilist the rest stayed on land...
you followin me?
nowthe land species have no idea what is going on anywhere else, they aren't very nomadic
while the cave species encounter a new enviornment and learn to adapt to this enviornment obtaining these toxic powers
where are the other species of pikmin you ask?
STILL ON THE SURFACE
they have no interaction with the cave species hence no knowledge of the evolving pikmin inside or their inheritence of a new trait
meaning when the white pikmin make finally make contact with their anscestrial bretheren the other pikmin have no protection from this because they never adapted to this new threat because they never encountered it and had to live with it. NO MUTATIONS, NOTHING, NO PROTECTION
get me yet?
EDIT: god I'm missing Family Guy for this? seriously
where do you think the flowers appeared from in the first place? plus I already explained this it alteres the genes, it doesn't mean it was anywhere in the genes in the first place...
I wonder... if someone were to write a quick synopsis, would they make any enemies? 
I'm just wondering... is there much left to debate?
I'm just wondering... is there much left to debate?Oh I thought I was going to do it since I pretty much destroyed this debate alreadyI wonder... if I were to write a quick synopsis, would I make any enemies?
I don't think I could go any lower or worse then where I am already
Oh, its all your's. I worded that incorrectly; I was trying to get anyone who has another idea to speak up.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
It's entirely dependent on how the poison functions, so let me ask this question, DO THE PIKMIN GENERALLY INTERACT AND ACT TOGETHER? Because it is entirely possible for the pikmin to have a specific resistance to it (or maybe certain subspecies of pikmin), but if they never interact, it's evolutionarily doubtful.
Also, something that's been sort of nagging me for a while but I got distracted, something ICs might be able to pull a solid victory... are Pikmin possible period? We already noted how certain functions of ivysaur are impossible due to how plants and animals interact, what about pikmin?
Also, something that's been sort of nagging me for a while but I got distracted, something ICs might be able to pull a solid victory... are Pikmin possible period? We already noted how certain functions of ivysaur are impossible due to how plants and animals interact, what about pikmin?
oh well I srsly don't care...
it's only wednesday man...
what are we going to do for the rest of the week...
lol Imma guess whats next without clues
uhhh jiggz vs. kirbeh?
or was kirby already in a disscussion?
EDIT: TRY TO IGNORE THIS POST
it's only wednesday man...
what are we going to do for the rest of the week...
lol Imma guess whats next without clues
uhhh jiggz vs. kirbeh?
or was kirby already in a disscussion?
EDIT: TRY TO IGNORE THIS POST
sorry if I'm double posting but I can't copy and paste on the wii browser
I've been trying to explain this ALL FRIGGIN DAY! the red/blue/yellow evolved in an entirely different enviornment than the whites so they never had previous interaction at all not giving them time to have their genes mutate and create a general immunity.
I've been trying to explain this ALL FRIGGIN DAY! the red/blue/yellow evolved in an entirely different enviornment than the whites so they never had previous interaction at all not giving them time to have their genes mutate and create a general immunity.
what do you mean by pikmin possible period?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I'm more concerned about the purple ones (which are also cave pikmin).
And while I acknowledge that their primary environment is different that doesn't mean that they can't have interaction.
Look at their biology, they're somehow supposed to be both plants and animals, and as we know, even at a cellular level, plants and animals have very different biology. Is an animal with the attributes of a pikmin possible IRL?
well. we have stick bugs but even those have skeletons
and pikmin are mostly plant since they grow faster in the ground, you have to use special syrup(in-game) to grow them when they are already picked
meaning they probably have cell walls
they're organ systems are not like ours since they photosynthesize(they breathe through the leaf on their heads)
as for interaction (in-game) the caves were deep and most pikmin by default are kind of afraid to enter caves since they are not genetically prepared (also it's dark, nighttime creatures live in those caves)
IDK about purple pikmin
they have no elemental immunities they just have brawns
EDIT: pikmin generally interact with pikmin of their color
if you have a group of pikmin and disband them they move into groups of their color
and pikmin are mostly plant since they grow faster in the ground, you have to use special syrup(in-game) to grow them when they are already picked
meaning they probably have cell walls
they're organ systems are not like ours since they photosynthesize(they breathe through the leaf on their heads)
as for interaction (in-game) the caves were deep and most pikmin by default are kind of afraid to enter caves since they are not genetically prepared (also it's dark, nighttime creatures live in those caves)
IDK about purple pikmin
they have no elemental immunities they just have brawns
EDIT: pikmin generally interact with pikmin of their color
if you have a group of pikmin and disband them they move into groups of their color
Pikmin DO have skeletons, but they don't have lungs. Aside from that, their body structure is unknown, but I'd assume they are half-animal, half-plant.
which isn't really possible since even the animals that resemble plants AREN'T plants they just evolved to match their envorinment
plant/animal splices aren't possible
Could you explain please? I'd like to understand more.
animals met with enviromental challenges are forced to adapt to these challenges or die. and nobody wants to die do they? creatures like the stick bug evolved to have a new structural body thus looking like a twig... predators think that it's just another twig and walk by thus avoiding detection all animals are specialized to match and survive in our environments.
oh if you were asking how a plant/animal isn't possible:
plant cell and animal cells are designed differently it's not possible to do this splice yet
unless the government is doing something behind my back that I don't know about
EDIT: for pikmin to be a thesable species they would have to be completely animal or completely plant
Er, I only have an ounce of knowledge as far as this goes, so thank you. But basically, you can't have two different systems in the body like that? Like a photosynthesis system (plant-like)for energy and a system for processing and using that enrgy (more animal-like)?
@Dabuz - How much did you actually read before posting?
@Dabuz - How much did you actually read before posting?
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
ics win, hands down, (assuming we are going by ics brawl physics and olimar's pikmin game physics)
when it comes to it, unless oli has 100 pikmin like in the game olimar has no stopping power by himself and 10 pikmin have very little as well, poison only effects when eaten, so, whites are useless,
only purples would actually hurt if they hit (a direct hit can kill small things like little bulborbs and probably ics actually actually), but they can be smacked away by hammers very easily,
so the ics would just keep smacking away a few pikmin at a time slowly getting closer due to higher speed+olimars delay when throwing/plucking pikmin until they are in hammer range, also, assuming oli has a grab the other can save the one being grabbed or attack oli in that time, hammer>pikmin no matter what, its easily ics unless he has 100 pikmin like the game
when it comes to it, unless oli has 100 pikmin like in the game olimar has no stopping power by himself and 10 pikmin have very little as well, poison only effects when eaten, so, whites are useless,
only purples would actually hurt if they hit (a direct hit can kill small things like little bulborbs and probably ics actually actually), but they can be smacked away by hammers very easily,
so the ics would just keep smacking away a few pikmin at a time slowly getting closer due to higher speed+olimars delay when throwing/plucking pikmin until they are in hammer range, also, assuming oli has a grab the other can save the one being grabbed or attack oli in that time, hammer>pikmin no matter what, its easily ics unless he has 100 pikmin like the game
so far no such splice exists dragonblooded so a pikmin to exist as an actual species in real life as a plant/animal splice it would either be a miracle and complete freak of nature or not actually possible
@dabuz you know there is a mistake in ur sig right?
Eh, I guess I'd have to know more to properly understand why, but thanks.
Sieguest
Smash Master
Olimar and the purple pikmin's inertia not to move out of rest position and the IC's + rope's inertia to stay in movement both work against olimar, they're basically asking to topple themselves...but...this fact works both ways...inertia may cause a problem for the IC's
It's alright...I understand what you're saying....I'm a school nerd so I've been studying EVERYTHING!!!Oh I thought I was going to do it since I pretty much destroyed this debate already
yet...how could a being like the pikmin survive underground...if they need photosynthesis to create energy and survive and there is no sunlight...
the red,blue, and yellow couldn't survive long underground...so the interaction would seem to be very limited...so they may not be used to the poison...
plus seeing as how if any obstruction ends up on their leaves they suffocate wouldn't the poison particles suffocate them...remember that since in game the white pikmin don't generally breath poison to attack enemies...(as I've still only witnessed that cutscene in which it happens and other gameplay vids I've watched do not show poison breath as an ability...) then how would the other pikmin (excluding the purple) have an immunity...? I mean I know realistically they might breath poison, but I'm still not swayed past the point that it might not be a burp, a burp like humans do...unless we somehow have control over when we burp....
Dunno...
Pikmin have no lungs...
respiration is like plants...
photosynthesis to produce energy...
Plants are stationary IRL...and pikmin seem to only have the energy capturing mechanism's of plants...would this provide enough energy to sustain all the action the pikmin need to act as humans? If not then realistically...these pikmin are running low battery within moments of battle ensuing...
I'm gonna work one response at a time... regarding the rope theory, Olimar would still have to be taken by surprise to be lasso'ed. Since he's safe in his little bubble and really only has to concentrate on the Climbers in the first place, why would he turn his attention away from them?
Sieguest
Smash Master
The IC's are adding forward momentum to the rope...
the rope is very long as has been previously described...
it would be a mistake for olimar and his pikmin to try and beat the rope and rush at the IC's...ignoring the rope will get them sidewinded...
Wait, i'm confused. yes, the rope can reach them from outside the bubble; I know its very long. But Olimar will generally play a more defensive game instead of rushing towards the ICs. And I just said, Olimar will do to keep the rope in mind, not ignore it.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Uncle sam, i just realized something:
There is no evidence of there ever being WILD White pikmin...(or purples)
the first time they are ever encountered was by tossing normals into the purple or white flowers CREATING the whites (purples)
This means that the blueprints are allready there...the flowers just activate them...
This means the ability to create poison is within the Normal pikmin, but just not...enabled like they are in the whites.
Now, seeing as they are derived from normals, and are immune to their own toxins, who's to say the normals are not?
As for the plant/animal debate:
There are jellies known to photosynthesize, its not tooo much of stretch that over time a species could evolve some plant-like traits
There is no evidence of there ever being WILD White pikmin...(or purples)
the first time they are ever encountered was by tossing normals into the purple or white flowers CREATING the whites (purples)
This means that the blueprints are allready there...the flowers just activate them...
This means the ability to create poison is within the Normal pikmin, but just not...enabled like they are in the whites.
Now, seeing as they are derived from normals, and are immune to their own toxins, who's to say the normals are not?
As for the plant/animal debate:
There are jellies known to photosynthesize, its not tooo much of stretch that over time a species could evolve some plant-like traits
Joe has some points there. (Hallelula!) Er, is anybody here? hello?
arch knight
Smash Lord
but given the white pikmin body structure they are rather thin it would not really be possible to generate a large cloud of poison let alone to keep it there as a protective guard.
true, true that's why it would take time to create this sheild. Olimar would have to stall forcing his other pikmin into the fry anyway to die.
you sort of answered your own point,
the genes are there just not activated, you can't activate new genes at any point and time. If the genes aren't activated than the immunity can't take effect.
genes are only allowed to turn on/off genes in the stem cell stage... this must mean it turns the origional pikmin BACK into an embryo(hence why you need to pick them from the ground again)and changes the genes into the newly formed white pikmin.
also what you're trying to point out here is that the pikmin species is a perfect species, they have genes for everything which is impossible because for them to split into multiple species would mean they would have to de-volve which is also impossible. In nature everything evolves to be perfect, forever getting closer yet not reaching it, nothing can start as a perfect entity.
EDIT: the poison trait and immunity trait must come coupled in the same gene.
and their would be no point in activating it/them if the origional pikmin never had to adapt to it
oh I didn't know that...
but so do Ents so...
@marthage- no I'm not a school nerd(possibly) Bio was just really easy and I understood it easily,
also we can force out burps constantly but doing this can effect the flow of air through our lungs causing problems
Okay, but still, Olimar has a really hard time approaching the Ics, which is why he probably won't. But do the ICs really have a way to approach Olimar from inside his bubble? If not, then this is mostly a stalemate with a small advantage to ICs for their superior combat skill. However, that skill is only usable at the dawn of the match when Oli is stalling.
Marthage said something about the Purples not being enough to help free Olimar, but I do have an argument against that. Olimar has to be taken by surprise to be lasso'ed or not be able to give orders to his Pikmin. From his bubble, Olimar doesn't really have to concentrate on anything but the Ics, so I don't really see why he wouldn't see it coming.
Justanother little note, the purples will be near Oli at all times. They could still help without being given orders if their leader is in a tight spot.
two things
1)kirbywizard pointed out that the onion cloud may have low visibility because apparently this toxin is thick according to Adumbrodeus
2)(in-game)pikmin wouldn't attack unless ordered to attack or attacked first Olimar could get hit but the pikmin weren't going to save his *** or anything they're not smart enough to comprehend situations like these, if it's not doing physical harm to them/their onion they're not goin to make contact with it
Eh, its possible, but the gas, as demonstrated in the vid, loses its colour very fast. It becomes invisible. It may distort some things slightly as light smoke does, but IMO, its pretty darn transparent.
Good point, but it only takes a whistle to get their attention.
does anybody remember this?I'd say 50-50 or 55-45
Olimar has major strategies but some put him at a big risk while the Climbers tie/advantage in other areas.
and in a battle neither would be able to successfully approach each other
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Olimar doesn't have to just stay in one place, he can move, the bubble just defends him less in the area that he's moving through, and he's got to pay attention to move slow enough to not outpace it.
And also, the ICs have gotta retreat mad far to keep from being gradually poisoned by low doses, in a short battle, it isn't gonna matter, but in a stalemate...
^^^this
It'd take way too long for it to get to the strength you are proposing
plus I've been talking for like the past 6 pages maybe more why Ivy strategy for Oli does more harm then help for him
read it all...
read it good
Dang it! How is it that Adum is ofline when Uncle is and vice versa!? JK, jk.
JOE!
Smash Hero
anyways, about the Normal-White transformation. Wouldnt the chromosomes allready have to be in place for the triat to come about, even if reverted to the embryotic state?
All Im arguing is that due to their tremendous similarity, the poison shouldnt harm normals due to it not harming the near genetically identical whites...
I'm rofling, Joe. Also, if we assume that the other six pikmin can safely stay in the poison (I'm not saying that it is yet), what kind of difference will that have on the battle?
Also, if we assume that the other six pikmin can safely stay in the poison (I'm not saying that it is yet), what kind of difference will that have on the battle?