TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JUDGE]

samus would win cuz she is sexier!!!
anyone agree??

 

[UncleSam]

samus would win cuz she is sexier!!!
anyone agree??

^^this
you guys shouldn't post while I'm not here I feel left out in an argument with a char. I know way too much about.
as for telekinesis, the majority of Samus' beam combos, and all her beams in general wouldn't be effected,
Annihilator beam, sonic boom, and Hyper beam would destroy mewtwo
EDIT: refer to this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8046040&postcount=2659 for Samus' weaponry, I'm constantly updating the post

 

[JOE!]

Pokemon​

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Super Smashes​

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Interactions​

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Strategy​

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• Assist
• (Triple Finish)
• Dragon's Rain

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• Water attacks will make Leech Seeds grow, causing them to heal the attacks % back in full as well as emit an aura for 1% healing per second in a 1/2 platform radius around the foe.
• If Spore is activated in a Trick Room, the cloud will linger inside of it until it is absorbed by an enemy.
• Feraligatr can fill Trick Rooms with water, with his specials and smashes generally filling 1/3-1/2 based on charge, and other moves filling 1/4 of the volume. Foes passing through the now filled Trick Rooms will be slowed to 1/2 speed, as well as the water absorbing Energy-Based attacks. The water depletes at a rate of 1/5th of it's max capacity a second however.

|With Dragon's Rain and more potent Trick Rooms, the focus here is definitely on locking down the foe's options. Generally you'll want Breloom on Team2 and keep Z or Gatr playable in order to flood TR's and for their Super Smash, and with the awesome damage Z can get from the Projectiles gained (Mainly Grass/Poison/Water/Dragon) it'd be too good to pass up switching types constantly. Breloom's healing and lingering Spore offer good survival to the team, mixed with Trick Room's acting as safety nets can make this combination surprisingly durable given the two lightweights on the team, all in part due to the Super Leech seeds and Trick Rooms providing so much damage mitigation.
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TRIPLE FINISH​

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• Having to be right next to a foe for it to hit, Porygon-Z will appear and grab the foe, trapping them inside a Trick Room! From here, he floats to the background as Feraligatr and Breloom stand to either side of the trapped foe, with Z making a pixelated arrow over one of them. This now works similarly to the Mario and Luigi RPGs when they have a Bro item like the Fire Flower, only you know.. with Feraligatr and Breloom instead mashing A (For Gatr) or B (Breloom) to get in as many standard attacks as possible! The poor foe will be subject to them switching off attacks for about 2 seconds, before the last second which has both able to mash A/B in order to shatter the Trick Room with one last attack and launch the foe, with the Pokemon who landed that final hit performing a victorious Taunt.

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[UncleSam]

I'm currently looking up what type of natural acid would be similar to phazon, you also have phazon sickness, which is an alien sickness to mewtwo so even if a non-lethal blow were to hit mewtwo he could enter cardiac arrest
EDIT: added 2 misc. items, adding visors

yeah read it, Omega Cannon *****!!!!
EDIT2: added visors didn't take too long

 

[adumbrodeus]

^^this
you guys shouldn't post while I'm not here I feel left out in an argument with a char. I know way too much about.
as for telekinesis, the majority of Samus' beam combos, and all her beams in general wouldn't be effected,
Annihilator beam, sonic boom, and Hyper beam would destroy mewtwo
EDIT: refer to this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8046040&postcount=2659 for Samus' weaponry, I'm constantly updating the post

Ummm, no.

Physics dude.


Energy can be caused to miss through causing large amounts of localized gravity (aka, lots of mass in a small area).


Anything solid could be blocked directly, pushed to the side, or simply destroyed midair.



I find it amusing you reference sonic boom since it would be the absolute easiest to eliminate. Look into destructive interference. Suffice it to say that the same wave, 180 degrees out of phase eliminates it, period.

That's if mewtwo doesn't just decide to block it.


That works for a lot of the wave-based beams that samus has.

many of her beam attacks home in, as well as her missles...i doubt holding the cannon still would even work

The problem with the psionics vs samus is that we dont know what her materials and energies would do to it.

I mean, doesnt she produce phazon? that creates all kinds of sillyness

Missles she can just explode mid-air with a small amount of force. Again, works for most of her weapons.

Phazon... has to touch him. When you're dealing with a top-level psionic, touching is very difficult.



Again, you guys don't seem to get what a top-level psionic would be capable of.

Selective adaptation of thing at the atomic level and below at great speed in terms of precision.

Moving suns in terms of power.



Now, is mewtwo necessarily that powerful? Probably not, but he's displayed to have the genius and ability to act in the top of the precision category, which means that he'd have the ability to do all sort of extremely wonky things, like what I've been describing.


As for power, manipulating great chunks of the environment is definitely in his control, to the degree of terraforming the entire battlefield based on his displayed powers.



No, this is a rout, mewtwo stops samus' been selectively while controlling the enviroment around her to prevent her from effectively moving until her can push something into her arm canon to jam it, and then proceeds to capture her in rock and crush her.


That's only if we give her every advantage, if she doesn't have any sort of anti-psionic field (not armor, field), he just breaks the arm canon immediately and crushes her.

If she has no psionic defense, he just thinks about it and her brain/heart/[vital organ here] goes pop, either from telepathy or selective telekinesis.


Her projectiles are incapable of getting through mewtwo's psionics (ability to create solid walls either of psionic energy or local rock/ground works nicely, especially when projectiles tend to be prone to explode early if they hit something, so does 180 degrees off destructive interference).


This was SO wrong of a match-up.

I'm currently looking up what type of natural acid would be similar to phazon, you also have phazon sickness, which is an alien sickness to mewtwo so even if a non-lethal blow were to hit mewtwo he could enter cardiac arrest
EDIT: added 2 misc. items, adding visors

yeah read it, Omega Cannon *****!!!!

Needs to hit.


Omega cannon... precision issue. It explodes right as it leaves samus' arm canon. And mewtwo is protected via shields of psionic energy.

 

[uhmuzing]

I agree. The sky is the limit here.

 

[UncleSam]

mewtwo is a man-made pokemon and since all Psionics are fictional there is no way that it could be physically possible to create psionics to destroy cities, it could only have the power of a supercomputer AT MOST, in ... dang I lost my train of thought I'm watching King of Queens and I don't know why...
man...
oh wait, due to these limitations of the human condition Mewtwo could probably only be able to lift things his strength, and mewtwo is physically weak.
EDIT: omega cannon doesn't need to hit, it's a freakin nuke

 

[uhmuzing]

mewtwo is a man-made pokemon and since all Psionics are fictional there is no way that it could be physically possible to create psionics to destroy cities, it could only have the power of a supercomputer AT MOST, in ... dang I lost my train of thought I'm watching King of Queens and I don't know why...
man...
oh wait, due to these limitations of the human condition Mewtwo could probably only be able to lift things his strength, and mewtwo is physically weak.
EDIT: omega cannon doesn't need to hit, it's a freakin nuke

But this is a canon match, and therefore, both of them defy physics if they're games/TV shows allow them to. For this reason, Samus is screwed. Badly. This isn't even a contest. Mewtwo does not even have to move to win this. He can make virtually anything happen here.

 

[professor mgw]

Samus (Scince there's no magic)

 

[UncleSam]

no this is canon

and you're saying it applies to canon yet adum is talking about physics
EDIT: the nova beam can pierce through mewtwo's force field, and dark visor can find mewtwo if he try's to phaze out of sight

 

[adumbrodeus]

mewtwo is a man-made pokemon and since all Psionics are fictional there is no way that it could be physically possible to create psionics to destroy cities, it could only have the power of a supercomputer AT MOST, in ... dang I lost my train of thought I'm watching King of Queens and I don't know why...
man...
oh wait, due to these limitations of the human condition Mewtwo could probably only be able to lift things his strength, and mewtwo is physically weak.
EDIT: omega cannon doesn't need to hit, it's a freakin nuke

Wow, I especially love the bolded section, misconceptions ftw.


Canonically, mewtwo razed an entire island with his psionic abilities. I'm sorry, but that honestly tosses aside all assumptions of limits to his abilities.


The behavior he's displayed with his abilities (even casually) is quite frankly, nearly godlike.


As far as the omega canon goes, it doesn't matter if it blows up an instant after leaving samus' arm canon. With his powers he can absorb the damage, so mewtwo might take some damage, but samus will be at pure ground 0 with no defense.

Or diffuse it IN-FLIGHT. Easiest solution.


Also, all this happens after mewtwo has plenty of time to just rip out the arm canon.

no this is canon

and you're saying it applies to canon yet adum is talking about physics
EDIT: the nova beam can pierce through mewtwo's force field, and dark visor can find mewtwo if he try's to phaze out of sight

Lol, you're missing an important point, the only rules that change between psychics there and physics there are those that are required in order for their universe to be consistent.

Nova beam only goes through phazite.


As for phasing out... before we even talk about illusions, let's talk about samus' vulnerability to her brain being turned into mush by pure telepathic power.

From there, illusions are inputted directly into samus' brain. Visor filters sight input, since the illusions are a step above that, it's useless.

 

[payasofobia]

JOE! you have just unleashed a s!tstorm here!


And adombreus, aren't we going only by game canon? Mewtwo has shown the ability to raze a somwhat small island and create a thunderstorm, but so can lots of other pokemons.

 

[UncleSam]

brain waves are electrical and samus' helmet has multiple filters against external sources, her suits also protect against such waves

Nova beam only goes through phazite.

nova beam can go through organic objects as well, a nova beam shot to mewtwo's head is the end for him,
lol the above disproves the cancellation of sonic boom, brain waves are electric which is what psionics is based around, the brain, a sonic boom could knock out mewtwo's focus

 

[§leepy God]

JOE! you have just unleashed a s!tstorm here!

♪ That he did, that he did. †

♪ Anyways, coming to my knowledge of knowing both series very well, Mewtwo has proven more than worthy of winning this match not just by Psychic attacks alone but with a large verity of movesets that he can perform on Samus. †

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Pokemons can only use 4 moves.


And the movie is not an appropiate reference for mewtwo's power because the creator of the games himself said that the tv series is not an accurate representation of his pokemon world, with the pokemon special manga staying true to the creator's intention.


In the manga, mewtwo has an illness that weakens him because of the human DNA he posseses, and he is very strong for a pokemon, but still stays true to a pokemon's limit.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ I'm pretty sure everyone knows that, lol. The moves I'm mostly talking about would be Psychic, Shadow Ball, Recover, and Calm Mind would be enough. †

 

[adumbrodeus]

JOE! you have just unleashed a s!tstorm here!


And adombreus, aren't we going only by game canon? Mewtwo has shown the ability to raze a somwhat small island and create a thunderstorm, but so can lots of other pokemons.

Of course.

Pokemon tend to be on the powerful side canonically, especially legendary pokemon.

brain waves are electrical and samus' helmet has multiple filters against external sources, her suits also protect against such waves

Efficiently enough?

Samus' suit certainly is able to be damaged by multiple forms of electric attacks. Again, we're talking about an incredibly powerful psionic, so even if only a tiny percentage of the impulses go through, it'll be enough.


Of course, not that it matters, telekinesis will just be used to crush her suit.

nova beam can go through organic objects as well, a nova beam shot to mewtwo's head is the end for him,
lol the above disproves the cancellation of sonic boom, brain waves are electric which is what psionics is based around, the brain, a sonic boom could knock out mewtwo's focus

Ummm, yea, but we're talking about mewtwo setting up barriers using psionics.

Pure air will do. So will rock or local ground.

Or a micro black hole to change trajectory to make it miss.



*faceplam*

No, sonic booms are purely sonic energy, generally caused by an object moving at mach 1 or greater. Please, at least research on wikipedia before blowing your mouth off.


Electricity in general COULD do what you're saying, but the fundamental problem is it needs to hit.


Also, you realize electrons have properties of both particles and waves, right?

 

[payasofobia]

Are you basing all these powers on confirmed canon or just on pure speculation?

Because I am pretty sure that Mewtwo is very powerful for a pokemon, but again, pokemon's power are usualy exagerated and:

Pokemons can only use 4 moves.


And the movie is not an appropiate reference for mewtwo's power because the creator of the games himself said that the tv series is not an accurate representation of his pokemon world, with the pokemon special manga staying true to the creator's intention.


In the manga, mewtwo has an illness that weakens him because of the human DNA he posseses, and he is very strong for a pokemon, but still stays true to a pokemon's limit.

Is this true?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Are you basing all these powers on confirmed canon or just on pure speculation?

Because I am pretty sure that Mewtwo is very powerful for a pokemon, but again, pokemon's power are usualy exagerated and:



Is this true?

How we do every match-up:

1. Here's what they've been proven to be able to do in canon.

2. What does that mean that they'd be able to do?


The thing is, psionics are extremely versatile, and with a good imagination or intelligence (or both) it's very easy to come up with extremely nasty applications for cannon powers that weren't directly shown but the character should have access to.


Often because the character is smarter then the creators (or the creators didn't show the extent either for story or lack of opportunity).

Pokemons can only use 4 moves.


And the movie is not an appropiate reference for mewtwo's power because the creator of the games himself said that the tv series is not an accurate representation of his pokemon world, with the pokemon special manga staying true to the creator's intention.


In the manga, mewtwo has an illness that weakens him because of the human DNA he posseses, and he is very strong for a pokemon, but still stays true to a pokemon's limit.

That REALLY needs a source.

Plus, access to the manga dealing with Mewtwo, but there are a ton of issues with psionics simply being broken in application once you break down the implications of various abilities.

 

[tocador]

To the people saying that Super computer > brain.

Current estimates of brain capacity range from 1 to 1000 terabytes!

"Robert Birge (Syracuse University) who studies the storage of data in
proteins, estimated in 1996 that the memory capacity of the brain was
between one and ten terabytes, with a most likely value of 3
terabytes. Such estimates are generally based on counting neurons and
assuming each neuron holds 1 bit. Bear in mind that the brain has
better algorithms for compressing certain types of information than
computers do."
http://www.sizes.com/people/brain.htm

"The human brain contains about 50 billion to 200 billion neurons
(nobody knows how many for sure), each of which interfaces with 1,000
to 100,000 other neurons through 100 trillion (10 14) to 10
quadrillion (10 16) synaptic junctions. Each synapse possesses a
variable firing threshold which is reduced as the neuron is repeatedly
activated. If we assume that the firing threshold at each synapse can
assume 256 distinguishable levels, and if we suppose that there are
20,000 shared synapses per neuron (10,000 per neuron), then the total
information storage capacity of the synapses in the cortex would be of
the order of 500 to 1,000 terabytes. (Of course, if the brain's
storage of information takes place at a molecular level, then I would
be afraid to hazard a guess regarding how many bytes can be stored in
the brain. One estimate has placed it at about 3.6 X 10 19 bytes.)"

So yeah, it kinda is possible to be that powerfull.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

That REALLY needs a source.

Plus, access to the manga dealing with Mewtwo, but there are a ton of issues with psionics simply being broken in application once you break down the implications of various abilities.

http://www.serebii.net/manga/chapter.shtml

Look for the chapter summaries, you should find vs mewtwo.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mewtwo_(Pokémon)

Really short summary.

I'll look for the creator's quote, though you can ask quite a lot of people this and they will confirm it.

Also, in the manga, Red defeated mewtwo and caught him.

 

[UncleSam]

Samus' suit certainly is able to be damaged by multiple forms of electric attacks. Again, we're talking about an incredibly powerful psionic, so even if only a tiny percentage of the impulses go through, it'll be enough.

not while in hypermode...

Of course, not that it matters, telekinesis will just be used to crush her suit.

he'd have to see his target

Ummm, yea, but we're talking about mewtwo setting up barriers using psionics.

Pure air will do.

it won't cancel anything what are you going for here?

So will rock or local ground.

hypermissiles/powerbombs will blow through that

Or a micro black hole to change trajectory to make it miss.

all black holes have infinite density, mewtwo would get sucked into it and be killed, long before samus falls into it, plus you'd have to be close to the event horizon for it to shift. YOU do some snooping before blowing your mouth off

*faceplam*

No, sonic booms are purely sonic energy, generally caused by an object moving at mach 1 or greater. Please, at least research on wikipedia before blowing your mouth off.


Electricity in general COULD do what you're saying, but the fundamental problem is it needs to hit.


Also, you realize electrons have properties of both particles and waves, right?

brain waves, are at a much lower frequency and I mean MUCH lower
EDIT: tocador, if you used 100% of your brain you wouldn't have needed to look that up! we'd know the meaning of life! but no, we use less, way less, generally people say about 10%
telekinesis would have to use 90%, which takes up a lot of energy
EDIT2: tocador, that's memory not computing power

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PokemonSpecial?from=Main.PokemonAdventures

Not completely trustworthy, but there it is. I'll look for more websites.

EDIT:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_Special

Pokemon special

Unlike the anime, which, though drawing much inspiration from the games, does not follow them exactly, Pokémon Special is a mostly game-based manga, with the thirteen main characters taking their names from the main series games, and their various adventures tending to stay restricted to their home region. Also unlike the anime, which has gone to great lengths to indicate the danger of a legendary Pokémon being captured, the main characters of Pokémon Special have captured and sometimes use their own legendaries, much as the player can in the games.

Pokémon creator Satoshi Tajiri is quoted as stating "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey."


Re-added because this is important in this match-up:


Also unlike the anime, which has gone to great lengths to indicate the danger of a legendary Pokémon being captured, the main characters of Pokémon Special have captured and sometimes use their own legendaries, much as the player can in the games.


Pokémon creator Satoshi Tajiri is quoted as stating "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey."

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

http://web.archive.org/web/20021215144736/www.vizkids.com/pokemon/adventures/characters.html


Mewtwo is sick, weak and not unlike any other pokemon in the manga because his psionic powers can't be handled by his human DNA.

He got better, but only after a very situational and 1 in a million deus ex machina. And even after that he got beaten.

Look for the chapter's summaries here:

http://www.serebii.net/manga/chapter.shtml

 

[adumbrodeus]

not while in hypermode...

Why not?

Brain is brain.

he'd have to see his target

Telepathy.

If nothing else, a telepathic blind spot.

it won't cancel anything what are you going for here?

hypermissiles/powerbombs will blow through that

They'll blow through it... and blow up. Assuming Mewtwo doesn't put enough psionic energy into it to make them stand.


You're sort of missing the point, they're easy to create and they cause projectiles to explode on contact to... well explode.


It's a disposal way to deal with projectiles using minimal expansion of energy.

all black holes have infinite density, mewtwo would get sucked into it and be killed, long before samus falls into it, plus you'd have to be close to the event horizon for it to shift. YOU do some snooping before blowing your mouth off

Firstly, no, density DOESN'T have to be infinite.

It merely has to be of sufficient density to cause sufficient gravity to create an escape velocity greater then the speed of light. Again, research.


Also, we're dealing with MICRO BLACK HOLES, which means two things. One, it's effect is very localized (remember, gravity's "pull" increases by a square of the distance as you move closer, and inversely decreases as a square of the distance), so, creating it right near the weapon in order to divert it's path is very possible.

Also, micro black holes evaporate almost instantly, so it would only exist as long as mewtwo held it together. Black holes have a finite lifespan related to their size, and micro black holes are so small that their lifespan is almost infinitesimal.


I'll just add that a micro black hole isn't required, it's just a choice. These attributes are related to gravity in general, all you need is sufficient localized gravity to get the job done.

brain waves, are at a much lower frequency and I mean MUCH lower

So?

That doesn't relate at all to the issue at hand.

 

[BeastlyBrawler323]

Gandrayda has a cloaking field, there's no indication from the series that Samus has anything to resist telepathic abilities.



Evidence on that?


You're also not considering the implications of that level of control on the outside world.

There's literally no difference between hitting somebody with a fist of psionic energy and hitting somebody with a fist formed of air melded together with psionic energy.



Telekinesis is mewtwo's strongest weapon, including control of the environment, and setting off other projectiles against Samus. If nothing else, tiny adjustments to samus' movement or mewtwo's one easily throw off a battle.





Juggernaut's helmet only worked because it was specially made, thickness doesn't count.


Psionic power can have the precision to pinch one artery closed, or even manipulate atoms, or the raw power to move planets or stars. What we need to be concerned about now is what level of power and precision mewtwo falls under.


Furthermore, psionics have to be negated by something that specifically negate it. Even then, only if it's a field. Even then, you can still go outside the influence and toss projectiles in, or break the ground under the support structure.




Psionics are broken.

Since it is based on movies, games, etc...I dont see how mewtwo would be able to move microscopic particles since we dont know exactly how mewtwos powers work. There are many theories as to how one can move something with their minds: from controlling the gravity around it, to moving the objects particles, to creating invisible energy forces to lift and push the object, etc

I dont think we can say that mewtwo can pinch arteries closed since we dont even know if mewtwo's powers can extend to that magnitude. Plus, We're looking at mewtwo's powers as if they were in a human in real life, we're supposed to base the decision on games, movies, etc. The pokemon world's psychic powers work a lot differently than the real world seeing as how its never been demonstrated that a pokemon can use psychic or confusion or whatever to close an artery, etc. I think we keep forgetting the fact that the decision is based on what they DID in the game or movie, not what they COULD have done.

 

[tocador]

brain waves, are at a much lower frequency and I mean MUCH lower
EDIT: tocador, if you used 100% of your brain you wouldn't have needed to look that up! we'd know the meaning of life! but no, we use less, way less, generally people say about 10%
telekinesis would have to use 90%, which takes up a lot of energy
EDIT2: tocador, that's memory not computing power

But the case is, mewtwo is not a human ^^.

If you say this, explain to me how samus can turn into a ball, because that surely isnt possible.

And yes i know there exists people that can do it, but usually they are very short, and im sure they cant become a ball and roll that fast.

Plus, samus isnt even close to beingh short ^^.

Unclesam, if you enter the web site, you can see that the processing pwoer of the human brain is as powerfull as his capacity of storing data, meaning that a brain is capable of processing at OVER 1000 terabytes :D.

 

[BeastlyBrawler323]

But the case is, mewtwo is not a human ^^.

If you say this, explain to me how samus can turn into a ball, because that surely isnt possible.

And yes i know there exists people that can do it, but usually they are very short, and im sure they cant become a ball and roll that fast.

Plus, samus isnt even close to beingh short ^^.

Unclesam, if you enter the web site, you can see that the processing pwoer of the human brain is as powerfull as his capacity of storing data, meaning that a brain is capable of processing at OVER 1000 terabytes :D.

actually in psychology, we learn that the brain can only store 4 terabytes lol :O

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

TL:dr:

Canonicaly, Mewtwo is made from Blaine's and Mew's DNA, and Blaine's greatly limits his psionic powers and makes him sick.

Also, his strenght is FAR from being god-like in the manga, he is just a very powerful pokemon. He is also NOT inmune to pokeballs, and he only does pokemon attacks.

 

[adumbrodeus]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PokemonSpecial?from=Main.PokemonAdventures

Not completely trustworthy, but there it is. I'll look for more websites.

EDIT:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_Special

Pokemon special

Unlike the anime, which, though drawing much inspiration from the games, does not follow them exactly, Pokémon Special is a mostly game-based manga, with the thirteen main characters taking their names from the main series games, and their various adventures tending to stay restricted to their home region. Also unlike the anime, which has gone to great lengths to indicate the danger of a legendary Pokémon being captured, the main characters of Pokémon Special have captured and sometimes use their own legendaries, much as the player can in the games.

Pokémon creator Satoshi Tajiri is quoted as stating "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey."


Re-added because this is important in this match-up:


Also unlike the anime, which has gone to great lengths to indicate the danger of a legendary Pokémon being captured, the main characters of Pokémon Special have captured and sometimes use their own legendaries, much as the player can in the games.


Pokémon creator Satoshi Tajiri is quoted as stating "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey."

OK then.


Looks at chapter summeries.


He may be able to be sickened by his powers, but he shows exactly same level of power that we're talking about in the anime. Breaking through walls, creating tornadoes.



This would only really come into play IF samus could actually hit him.

Since it is based on movies, games, etc...I dont see how mewtwo would be able to move microscopic particles since we dont know exactly how mewtwos powers work. There are many theories as to how one can move something with their minds: from controlling the gravity around it, to moving the objects particles, to creating invisible energy forces to lift and push the object, etc

I dont think we can say that mewtwo can pinch arteries closed since we dont even know if mewtwo's powers can extend to that magnitude. Plus, We're looking at mewtwo's powers as if they were in a human in real life, we're supposed to base the decision on games, movies, etc. The pokemon world's psychic powers work a lot differently than the real world seeing as how its never been demonstrated that a pokemon can use psychic or confusion or whatever to close an artery, etc. I think we keep forgetting the fact that the decision is based on what they DID in the game or movie, not what they COULD have done.

No, that's where you're wrong.


These discussions have and in all probability remain as based on what they could have done, derived from what they did.


What has mewtwo demonstrated? What are the implications of what he's demonstrated?

Those are the core questions to consider here.


As far as various theories, none of them preclude what I'm talking about.

As far as pinching arteries closed, it's just a matter of precision, dynamically controlling air currents to create a tornado is much more difficult. Which did mewtwo demonstrate?

 

[arch knight]

What about Samus changing to zero suit if her power armor is destroyed? would the fight continue?

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

But he is not able to use his psychic powers to the level you are talking about, and breaking tthrough walls and creating tornadoes is NOT impressive.....for Samus.

Also, if we are taking canon into consideration, then Samus wins because of screw attack.


AND I FORGOT, ALL OF THAT WAS EXPLAINED BY A MANGA PSYCHIC ATTACK CALLED PSYWAVE, NOT BECAUSE OF PSIONIC ABILITIES.

 

[tocador]

actually in psychology, we learn that the brain can only store 4 terabytes lol :O

They lied to you.

They always do to make your life easier.

If you want specifics, there is a case of a mathe-geek, a "super-human" if you may, that can proces at a REAL high speed. I dont know the real speed, but they say he can compute faster then some now-a-days computers :D.

 

[adumbrodeus]

But he is not able to use his psychic powers to the level you are talking about, and breaking tthrough wall is NOT impressive.

Also, if we are taking canon into consideration, then Samus wins because of screw attack.

The tornado is.

It shows both raw power and precision on a MASSIVE scale.


100,000 kilowatts of energy is in a tornado, think about that.


Screw attack is NOT canonically invincible.

 

[Bowser King]

TL:dr:

Canonicaly, Mewtwo is made from Blaine's and Mew's DNA, and Blaine's greatly limits his psionic powers and makes him sick.

Also, his strenght is FAR from being god-like in the manga, he is just a very powerful pokemon. He is also NOT inmune to pokeballs, and he only does pokemon attacks.

Just thought I'd point this out but didn't you say the manga portrays the world of in-game pokemon better then the anime? I don't think that means that it is a complete 100% portrayal of the games, gamefreak doesn't even have a connection with the manga.

They could make a chapter showing a pokemon evolving into a super machine, so would that be considered "canon"? Of course not. The manga isn't perfect, they have messed up on a lot of things. Like the three legendary birds magically fusing together when we know pokemon can't do that and neither has team Rocket done that in game. Not just that but Red's eevee can evolve and then devolve something you can't do at all in the games. Devolving pokemon breaks so many rules of the game and it continually evolves and devolves.

Thats just a few things. Plus, there is no evidence that shows Blaine had anything to do with mewtwo or Mewtwo ever getting sick in game, something I'm sure would have been added in the journals of the pokemon mansion on cinebar.

Plus, samus doesn't even have pokeballs so she can't catch mewtwo. Finally, it's also noted in-game that pokemon aren't able to use there full power when caught by a pokeball or during battles. Reason enough why dialga doesn't just freeze time and rip the opponents to shreds.

TL;DR if manga is considered canon then anime should be as well.

-Bowser King

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

A tornado only kills because of the debris and and the sudden stop after the fall. If he creates a tronado spontaneosly, then it would not have any debris to speak off, thus not harming samus at all OR if it somehow has debris, it would just damage samus slightly becuse she has taken blows from debris before.

Also, the tornado was created because of a pokemon attack, not because of Mewtwo's psionic abilities.

Just thought I'd point this out but didn't you say the manga portrays the world of in-game pokemon better then the anime? I don't think that means that it is a complete 100% portrayal of the games, gamefreak doesn't even have a connection with the manga.

They could make a chapter showing a pokemon evolving into a super machine, so would that be considered "canon"? Of course not. The manga isn't perfect, they have messed up on a lot of things. Like the three legendary birds magically fusing together when we know pokemon can't do that and neither has team Rocket done that in game. Not just that but Red's eevee can evolve and then devolve something you can't do at all in the games. Devolving pokemon breaks so many rules of the game and it continually evolves and devolves.

Thats just a few things. Plus, there is no evidence that shows Blaine had anything to do with mewtwo or Mewtwo ever getting sick in game, something I'm sure would have been added in the journals of the pokemon mansion on cinebar.

Plus, samus doesn't even have pokeballs so she can't catch mewtwo. Finally, it's also noted in-game that pokemon aren't able to use there full power when caught by a pokeball or during battles. Reason enough why dialga doesn't just freeze time and rip the opponents to shreds.

TL;DR if manga is considered canon then anime should be as well.

-Bowser King

If that is the case then only the games are canon and the only things Mewtwo can do is shotting random beams and lights. Damaging lights, but still nothing Samus has not faced before.

 

[Bowser King]

A tornado only kills because of the debris and and the sudden stop after the fall. If he creates a tronado spontaneosly, then it would not have any debris to speak off, thus not harming samus at all OR if it somehow has debris, just damaguing smus slightly becuse she has taken blows from debris before.

Also, the tornado was created because of a pokemon attack, not because of Mewtwo's psionic abilities.

Umm...mewtwo can't learn a move called "tornado" (actually no pokemon can). The closest thing to that would be the move called twister which he can't learn either >_>


-Bowser King

 

[adumbrodeus]

A tornado only kills because of the debris and and the sudden stop after the fall. If he creates a tronado spontaneosly, then it would not have any debris to speak off, thus not harming samus at all OR if it somehow has debris, it would just damage samus slightly becuse she has taken blows from debris before.

Also, the tornado was created because of a pokemon attack, not because of Mewtwo's psionic abilities.

You don't understand.


Mewtwo created the tornado using his psionic abilities (psywave is a psychic attack, right?).


If he has the power and precision to execute that on that scale, then he can do the other things I'm suggesting, which require significantly less of both.

If that is the case then only the games are canon and the only things Mewtwo can do is shotting random beams and lights. Damaging lights, but still nothing Samus has not faced before.

As I remember, the anime would be considered a canonical description of the character's abilities. I mean it is from gamefreak (through affiliates), right?


Either way, mewtwo has demonstrated the required power to do what I said he could do.

 

[BeastlyBrawler323]

They lied to you.

They always do to make your life easier.

If you want specifics, there is a case of a mathe-geek, a "super-human" if you may, that can proces at a REAL high speed. I dont know the real speed, but they say he can compute faster then some now-a-days computers :D.

actually im willing to believe that they lied. But even so, this mathe-geek is only one of a few cases that can process that high. Generally, the brain's processing speed is around 4-6 terabytes I guess. But who knows, that number can easily change in either direction.

Anyways this whole canon thing is pretty vague if u dont mind my saying...
especially since movies and mangas may very well contradict what the games state or demonstrate.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

You don't understand.


Mewtwo created the tornado using his psionic abilities (psywave is a psychic attack, right?).


If he has the power and precision to execute that on that scale, then he can do the other things I'm suggesting, which require significantly less of both.

Psywave is a psychic tornado, according to chapter 35. It is still an attack, not psionic abilities.

And about the pokeball catching Mewtwo, that means that he is not inmune to balls, and then he would be inmune to beams, missiles, bombs etc.

And no, The tv series is licensed by pokemon USA and 4kids entertainment. Gamefreak had nothing to do with the anime besides giving permission to do make it.