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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

UncleSam

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holy crap everybody just left at once
and telekinesis is samus' only problem because I discussed how telepathy can't get into her head (srry for the pun)
and if samus if flung against a wall/long distance going into morphball negates damage
if you question how this works this is a canon battle
 

payasofobia

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I read it since day 0 :O.

They are just too awsome :B.

Do you know awkwardzombie? Its really cool to, and if you never head of it, give it a try :D.
Awkwardzombie's comics are clever, simple and very funny. That comic gets an AAA grade from me. Love it.

Began reading it back then when Kathy's style was animeish and she was on deviantart.
 

UncleSam

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Awkwardzombie's jokes are clever, funny and very simple. That comic gets an AAA grade from me. Love it. Have been reading it since Kathy's style was animeish.
I'm surprised I haven't seen it somewhere, I saw it and it blew my mind, kind of, it was funny I have to say
 

payasofobia

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metroid doujinshi I found while looking at metroid stuff on the issue of comics http://metroid-database.com/reader.php?d=mph/manga/pirates&m=m
its in japanese, and with only us, this thread is filling with spam, get back to the intergalactic battle of the millennia people.
I don't feel like discussing the fight for now.....you can feel the rage in everyone's posts... it is stressful and not fun.


Let's take a break for now, we will continue tomorrow.
 

UncleSam

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according to the canon, and if anime actually applies, than all mewtwo can do is fling people against walls, 10pp of psychic, and create a protective bubble which can be disrupted by multiple weapons
mewtwo's base stats put him at tenth for highest placing stat wise in pokemon
and in the anime, it's also been effected by the berserk gene which works exactly like the move swagger which is useless to mewtwo all it does is confuse him, wouldn't that disrupt his psionic capabilities a bit?
also according to the anime here is mewtwo's moveset:
psychic
barrier
counter
shadow ball
psychic is where adum is getting all his stuff from, also barrier
counter does nothing since all of Samus' moves are long range,
and shadow ball does nothing due to the effect of the light suit
and all psychic can do according to canon is fling people around
EDIT: too late payasofobia
/I went there
 

tocador

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according to the canon, and if anime actually applies, than all mewtwo can do is fling people against walls, 10pp of psychic, and create a protective bubble which can be disrupted by multiple weapons
mewtwo's base stats put him at tenth for highest placing stat wise in pokemon
and in the anime, it's also been effected by the berserk gene which works exactly like the move swagger which is useless to mewtwo all it does is confuse him, wouldn't that disrupt his psionic capabilities a bit?
also according to the anime here is mewtwo's moveset:
psychic
barrier
counter
shadow ball
psychic is where adum is getting all his stuff from, also barrier
counter does nothing since all of Samus' moves are long range,
and shadow ball does nothing due to the effect of the light suit
and all psychic can do according to canon is fling people around
EDIT: too late payasofobia
/I went there

Surrender to mewtwo real powers:
http://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic1-113108.php
 

UncleSam

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lol at tocador, and paya I just want to get this in b4 i go to sleep,
btw I'm watching Mewtwo strikes back right now, seriously right now I remember the old days
all mewtwo is doing is throwing people around
 

payasofobia

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Hell yeah, Mewtwo Strikes back! Back when the anime was good!


I miss those days when I woke up, went outside to play with my friends, play videogames, trade pokemons and then tune together the show.

Holy **** those times were amazing.

Now all I do is work work work and use the internet.
 

UncleSam

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I was reading bulbapedia on the movie and it doesn't make sense, Ash DIES and yet in the next paragraph of the overview he's alive, I've gotta watch the whole movie sometime
 

JOE!

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Okie guys 2 things of importance:

CANON match means that the laws of physics are more leaniant to allow their abilities. For example, TABUU would be smushed by the hand's clap attack, while in CANON, he'd only lose HP

In this match, they get their supernatural abilities, yet they will have some dependancy on physics, like how Mewtwo would be able to block samus' attacks.



Second thing is concerning Mewtwo, and is two fold:

1) His temperment is said to Be very savage...but not really sadistic. I dont see him going off and doing things like boiling blood or whatnot when he'd usually use his psionics to ragdoll Samus.

Kindof like the ICS vs OLIMAR, we're assuming a bit much on Mewtwo's part....that he would *do* that, kindof like how the ICS would snipe the white pikmin first...only this time its a behavioral thing.


2) More importantly, how fast can Mewtwo react to Samus' onslaught? Can a projectile (say a single shot of something) travel faster than Mewtwo could think?

On the same note, what could different beams do to mewtwo? For example, if the Wave beam were to hit, could it mess with his neurons?
 

lordvaati

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why do I get the feeling this final battle will end up like that part with the squid from Watchmen?
 

payasofobia

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Okie guys 2 things of importance:

CANON match means that the laws of physics are more leaniant to allow their abilities. For example, TABUU would be smushed by the hand's clap attack, while in CANON, he'd only lose HP

In this match, they get their supernatural abilities, yet they will have some dependancy on physics, like how Mewtwo would be able to block samus' attacks.
IMO it doesn't make a bit of difference. None of their abilities truly rely or change with physics added.

And if we have already given them all of their abilities....we have already become pretty unrealistic and it would be better if we went all the way there.

2) More importantly, how fast can Mewtwo react to Samus' onslaught? Can a projectile (say a single shot of something) travel faster than Mewtwo could think?
If it is one of the faster projectiles (like an uncharged/slightly charged power beam shot, the graple beam and the normal missiles) he would get hit by them, and the grapple has the potential of killing mewtwo if he gets caught in it.

He would react to anything slower than that, considering he is very fast.
 

M.K

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I feel like Shadow Ball (in the anime, games, manga) has never been portrayed as a lightning fast attack; therefore, I believe that the shots from Samus' gun would be able to get to Mewtwo before he is able to react.
...that is, if Samus can FIND Mewtwo (Teleport, anyone?). Mewtwo could teleport right behind Samus and kill her before she knows what is happening.
 

payasofobia

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I feel like Shadow Ball (in the anime, games, manga) has never been portrayed as a lightning fast attack; therefore, I believe that the shots from Samus' gun would be able to get to Mewtwo before he is able to react.
...that is, if Samus can FIND Mewtwo (Teleport, anyone?). Mewtwo could teleport right behind Samus and kill her before she knows what is happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pItfgWqjmbU
 

adumbrodeus

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holy crap everybody just left at once
and telekinesis is samus' only problem because I discussed how telepathy can't get into her head (srry for the pun)
and if samus if flung against a wall/long distance going into morphball negates damage
if you question how this works this is a canon battle
Except your wrong.


Firstly, psionic energy is different from electrical.


Secondly, Samus' suit doesn't provide complete screening anyway, otherwise she'd be immune to the volt driver from hunters.


Who was talking about flinging anyway? Samus needs to worry about being crushed. Quite literally.


according to the canon, and if anime actually applies, than all mewtwo can do is fling people against walls, 10pp of psychic, and create a protective bubble which can be disrupted by multiple weapons
mewtwo's base stats put him at tenth for highest placing stat wise in pokemon
and in the anime, it's also been effected by the berserk gene which works exactly like the move swagger which is useless to mewtwo all it does is confuse him, wouldn't that disrupt his psionic capabilities a bit?
also according to the anime here is mewtwo's moveset:
psychic
barrier
counter
shadow ball
psychic is where adum is getting all his stuff from, also barrier
counter does nothing since all of Samus' moves are long range,
and shadow ball does nothing due to the effect of the light suit
and all psychic can do according to canon is fling people around
EDIT: too late payasofobia
/I went there
Ok...

Again, you're falling into the issue of substituting game mechanics for demonstrated abilities. Game mechanics are a limiter which morphs a character's storyline established abilities into something usable for a game. Or a buffer in the case of characters becoming more powerful when they leave your party. Canonically, PP doesn't exist, and all those moves are specific applications of his natural abilities (psionics).


The "only fling people against walls" excuse would work... if mewtwo hadn't shown the ability to create a tornado with raw psychic power, which by the way, is 100,00 kilowatts of energy (so incredibly powerful) and requires a massive amount of indepth control.

I was reading bulbapedia on the movie and it doesn't make sense, Ash DIES and yet in the next paragraph of the overview he's alive, I've gotta watch the whole movie sometime
Ash gets turned to stone by accident by mewtwo and mew...

Yea, those mother****ers are powerful.

Course he gets better.


Okie guys 2 things of importance:

CANON match means that the laws of physics are more leaniant to allow their abilities. For example, TABUU would be smushed by the hand's clap attack, while in CANON, he'd only lose HP

In this match, they get their supernatural abilities, yet they will have some dependancy on physics, like how Mewtwo would be able to block samus' attacks.
How canon matches are treated is you translate their established abilities into the real world with as few gaps as possible. The difference between this and the previous matches is, in the previous matches a conflict resulted in, "can't work, he loses", where as in these matches those gaps are handwaved as "a wizard did it" or something of that nature.


Basically, physics applies, unless otherwise noted.



Second thing is concerning Mewtwo, and is two fold:

1) His temperment is said to Be very savage...but not really sadistic. I dont see him going off and doing things like boiling blood or whatnot when he'd usually use his psionics to ragdoll Samus.

Kindof like the ICS vs OLIMAR, we're assuming a bit much on Mewtwo's part....that he would *do* that, kindof like how the ICS would snipe the white pikmin first...only this time its a behavioral thing.
The thing is, they're established as enemies (the only time we didn't assume characters knew this beforehand was when they quite frankly weren't capable of getting the concept, aka yoshi v ivysaur), which means that mewtwo would probably go for the most efficient method of killing possible. The only reason why he didn't seem to do that for humans were that he didn't consider them a threat so he toyed with them. Probably because of his massive expirience with humans. Samus however, is not exactly a normal human, so a different tact would be in order, especially when you consider that he pulled out all the stops against Mew.


2) More importantly, how fast can Mewtwo react to Samus' onslaught? Can a projectile (say a single shot of something) travel faster than Mewtwo could think?

On the same note, what could different beams do to mewtwo? For example, if the Wave beam were to hit, could it mess with his neurons?
Really, it's not all to relevant, because mewtwo essentially has telekenesis to scout with, so he'd detect the build-ups of energy in samus' suit, or the use of projectiles.


If we don't randomly give samus psychic-blocking armor (does samus have any expirience with psionics to indicate a resistance?) then this is further extended through passive reading.


Again, the myriad applications for psionics simply make them broken as ****.
 

JOE!

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  • If Spore is activated in a Trick Room, the cloud will linger inside of it until it is absorbed by an enemy.
  • If a foe is Locked-On, Night Slash/Metal Claws/Sucker Punch/Faint Attack all will home in on the targeted foe automatically.
  • If an opponent is under the effects of Spore's poison, Bisharp's bleed damage will extend by 1/2 a second per hit instead of 1/4 second when applicable. If the opponent is paralyzed or slept by Spore, Bisharp's attacks will do 25-50% more KB respectively.
|A very technical team, Breloom and Bisharp equally benefit from Z's supporting fire and Trick Rooms. However, the nature of the former two on top of Z's odd normal attacks will lend itself to highly offensive gameplay full of rushdown, baiting and trapping/tricking the foe into Spore clouds in order to hit it big.
|
TRIPLE FINISH
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  • Both Z and Bisharp jump to the background once activated, and otherwise behave as normal for the next 5 seconds, until somebody passes by and is able to be Locked-On. Once this happens, Z will turn to Bisharp and cloak him digitally, making him completely invisible! It is now Breloom's job to occupy the foe and keep them Locked-On via proper spacing and area control in order for Bisharp to come out of the shadows 5 seconds later and deliver a souped up Night-Slash critical from behind the foe. The critical does 30% in one go and a great deal of Horizontal KB, so you'll definitely not want a foe to avoid it!
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payasofobia

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Really, it's not all to relevant, because mewtwo essentially has telekenesis to scout with, so he'd detect the build-ups of energy in samus' suit, or the use of projectiles.


If we don't randomly give samus psychic-blocking armor (does samus have any expirience with psionics to indicate a resistance?) then this is further extended through passive reading.


Again, the myriad applications for psionics simply make them broken as ****.

Mother Brain is stated to be a very powerful psychic.

Her psionic energy is said to be so strong that a boss (dragoon I think) in super metroid even taps into her psionic abilities to exist, or that he was created by accident because of those waves.

I don't remember exactly but it was in the manual for super metroid.
 

adumbrodeus

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like i just said, you're giving a character foreknowledge

even if mewtwo does read samus's mind, or whatnot, hed recognize her as a human in a suit
How so?


It's an assumption that we've been operating with through the entire time, that they know they're facing each other.


The reason it didn't flie with ICs was because they needed extensive knowledge of the pikmin's attributes, including access to footage of the pikmin in action (and even then, only a few people noticed the implications).


Mewtwo, this is just a case of "observe enemy, destroy enemy. Or at least hold enemy and render incapable of attacking.


As for his behavior with humans, remember that was a completely defenseless group without their pokemon, and mewtwo easily established himelf as stronger.

Yet, look at the change when facing mew, by all indications, mewtwo will treat something as a legitimate threat until proven otherwise.


Though, honestly, I'm not convinced that samus qualifies as that anyway.


But even to toy with her, mewtwoo would crush anything that would make her a threat, aka, her weapons. And then proceed to toy with her like any other human.


Mother Brain is stated to be a very powerful psychic.

Her psionic energy is said to be so strong that a boss (dragoon I think) in super metroid even taps into her psionic abilities to exist, or that he was created by accident because of those waves.

I don't remember exactly but it was in the manual for super metroid.
Ummm, source please.

I crawled metriod wiki and found no mention of psionics.
 

payasofobia

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Mother Brain is stated to be a very powerful psychic.

Her psionic energy is said to be so strong that a boss (dragoon I think) in super metroid even taps into her psionic abilities to exist, or that he was created by accident because of those waves.

I don't remember exactly but it was in the manual for super metroid.

And Gorea too used psionic powers during the fight. He even sent the telephatic message to all the hunters in the universe to get them to free him. And required a powerful psionic lock to seal him.


EDIT: found source: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Phantoon

Gorea: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Gorea#Description

Both were able to be damaged by Samus's weapons and Samus could take a lot of attacks from them. Also, Samus ultimate weapons made short work of them.


Edit: and if we go by the Chozo's ability to transform their entity and mind into a spirit as shown by the chozo ghosts, it is quite probable that they are psychics or something similar. Which would not be surprising because the most advanced races in the Metroid lore are psychics.

This would mean that Samus too has psychic powers.
 

JOE!

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Pokemon
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Super Smashes
|
Interactions
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Strategy
|
  • Assist
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  • (Triple Finish)
|
  • If Spore is activated in a Trick Room, the cloud will linger inside of it until it is absorbed by an enemy.
  • If a target is Fossilized in a Trick Room, they do not acquire the negative side effects (Minus damage and speed on allies, damage resistance on enemies), but the duration/escape difficulty is halved.
  • Pyro Flow's hot air will ignite the Leech Seeds on a foe and cause them to be continuously burned for 8% a second for 3 seconds. During this time they cannot be Seeded again, and Fossilize will put out the fire.
|Armantle and the two lightest Pokemon may seem like an odd pairing at first, but they each support one another wonderfully here. Armantle has the option to give his buddies rock-hard armor without any side effects, greatly enhancing their offensive games with the added defense, and the lingering spores and healing support Armantle as a tank in return. Offensively, Armantle can even trade healing for a decent chunk of damage with a blast of heat, and set up foes to be beat down while fossilized for the other two. Good for beginners, the team has great bread and butter strategies that will work in most all situations.
|
TRIPLE FINISH
|
  • Breloom will Spore the foe, causing them to fall asleep regardless of their %, and continue to release spores to keep them that way much like Belossom. In the meantime, Z and Armantle can be seen filling a DDD-sized Trick Room with Lava over the next 2 seconds, which when filled can be moved about kinda like Alakazam's confusion in mid-air. The foe wakes up just as Breloom stops using spore, making them all on equal footing, well except for the part where you now not only have Aerial lava, but if you smash the TR with your attacks, all of it will come pouring down onto the stage for about 40% to whoever is unlucky enough to be under it!
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Uffe

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Well Mewtwo couldn't take out Mew and we all know that Mew isn't the worlds strongest Pokemon, so why didn't Mewtwo crush him?
 

payasofobia

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Does she demonstrate this? At any point?

No?

Well alright.

Smooth Criminal
Well her power suit requires a very powerful psych only the chozo have to work so using her powersuit requires that she was a psychic to some extent.

And she can also communicate or receive power-ups from chozo ghosts as shown in Zero Mission and transform herself into pure energy so she probably is a psychic.

And even if she was not a psychic she was shown to be able to survive an extremely powerful psychic blast in super Metroid (although it weakened her, but makes sense considering the attack was the GOD MODE ATTACK in the metroid universe) and she has received several psychic blasts from Gorea who is a psionic entity that destroyed an entire super advance civilization of psionics.

And Samus defeated him him with his armor, with the added power of 6 of the most powerful hunters in the universe and then kicked his pure energy form.
 

Bowser King

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We are not using real life for this fights, it is a canon fight. The OP even says it.
Yes, I know but when talking about things like gravity or movement we need to use real life physics. There would be no other way. We have no idea how the pokemon worlds physics work so I just assumed that it would be the same as the real world.

-:bowser:Bowser King
 

payasofobia

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The problem with real life physics is that they would gimp Mewtwo.

Moving stuff like Mewtwo does would mean the manipulation through psionics of some kind of energy or natural force that lets him move them, and the only thing that would make sense is manipulating Gravity, and Samus has her Gravity suit if we are being semi-realistic.

And the brain waves ALONE can't move anything in the real life because they are waves, the most psionics alone would do with real life physics is make something vibrate.


So I still say that we should go all the way to canon fight and don't care about how our world works in this fight. Not even as a reference.
 

Bowser King

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The problem with real life physics is that they would gimp Mewtwo.

Moving stuff like Mewtwo does would mean the manipulation through psionics of some kind of energy or natural force that lets him move them, and the only thing that would make sense is manipulating Gravity, and Samus has her Gravity suit if we are being semi-realistic.

And the brain waves ALONE can't move anything in the real life because they are waves, the most psionics alone would do with real life physics is make something vibrate.


So I still say that we should go all the way to canon fight and don't care about how our world works in this fight. Not even as a reference.
Yeah, I guess that would work.

Samus is strong and everything and I'm sure it would be a close match but I just think a super genius that has amazing psychic powers who can read brains and move at the blink of an eye would be able to take here down.

-:bowser:Bowser King
 

adumbrodeus

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Well Mewtwo couldn't take out Mew and we all know that Mew isn't the worlds strongest Pokemon, so why didn't Mewtwo crush him?
Mew is around the same overall power as mewtwo.

And Gorea too used psionic powers during the fight. He even sent the telephatic message to all the hunters in the universe to get them to free him. And required a powerful psionic lock to seal him.


EDIT: found source: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Phantoon

Gorea: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Gorea#Description

Both were able to be damaged by Samus's weapons and Samus could take a lot of attacks from them. Also, Samus ultimate weapons made short work of them.
But is there any evidence that either USED psionics against Samus?

Gorea just was shown to be able to do use it to transfer messages, he never showed any offensive psionics or defensive psionics.

Same with Phantoon, the psionics were just to manifest itself and to interact with mother brain.


Edit: and if we go by the Chozo's ability to transform their entity and mind into a spirit as shown by the chozo ghosts, it is quite probable that they are psychics or something similar. Which would not be surprising because the most advanced races in the Metroid lore are psychics.

This would mean that Samus too has psychic powers.
Ummm, just because the chozo are psionic that doesn't imply that samus is.



Well her power suit requires a very powerful psych only the chozo have to work so using her powersuit requires that she was a psychic to some extent.
Evidence?

And she can also communicate or receive power-ups from chozo ghosts as shown in Zero Mission and transform herself into pure energy so she probably is a psychic.
She never demonstrated this except with direct interaction with the chozo ghosts, which means that they as the psionic, but doesn't say anything about samus.

And even if she was not a psychic she was shown to be able to survive an extremely powerful psychic blast in super Metroid (although it weakened her, but makes sense considering the attack was the GOD MODE ATTACK in the metroid universe) and she has received several psychic blasts from Gorea who is a psionic entity that destroyed an entire super advance civilization of psionics.
Again, there doesn't seem to be any real indication that the attacks are psionic in nature.

Even if they were, none of the above ever demonstrated the precision that mewtwo has with it, it just seemed to be raw blasts. And the precision is the real killer here.


Even if you were right here, you're sort of ignoring a very important point, mewtwo's telekinesis is just as big a killer as his telepathy, and samus has NO defense against it unless she's shown telekinetic powers herself.


The problem with real life physics is that they would gimp Mewtwo.

Moving stuff like Mewtwo does would mean the manipulation through psionics of some kind of energy or natural force that lets him move them, and the only thing that would make sense is manipulating Gravity, and Samus has her Gravity suit if we are being semi-realistic.

And the brain waves ALONE can't move anything in the real life because they are waves, the most psionics alone would do with real life physics is make something vibrate.


So I still say that we should go all the way to canon fight and don't care about how our world works in this fight. Not even as a reference.
Ummm, no.


I already explained this, it works, up to the point where a contradiction occurs, only in those cases do we ignore actual physics. Otherwise, we have no base to work on whatsoever.


What I mean by that is it's just as logical to assume that everyone in the pokemon universe is a non-copereal entity and is unaffected by all samus' weapons, as an other situation. Any one of an endless array of world physics set-ups would work.

So, we really can't knock out RL, because then we have literally nothing to work with, so it's RL with "a wizard did it" in cases of contradictions.
 

JOE!

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Amb, just wanna ask something....

you assume that the metroid boss just does raw blasts of psi, then on the smae note assume that mewtwo can do ultra-precise manuevers with it.

The thing is, he has never demonstrated doing such things, the most would probably levitate Ash, everythign else was big and flashy
 

adumbrodeus

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Amb, just wanna ask something....

you assume that the metroid boss just does raw blasts of psi, then on the smae note assume that mewtwo can do ultra-precise manuevers with it.

The thing is, he has never demonstrated doing such things, the most would probably levitate Ash, everythign else was big and flashy
Not really.

We talked about this before actually, as far as telekinesis goes, mewtwo has obviously shown a great deal of precision when it comes to the psi tornado that I referenced to so many times.

Again, controlling air currents is extremely difficult because they're so difficult to understand dynamically (why do you think weather reporting is so inaccurate?).

Again, compare pinching an artery to creating a tornado, we've got the energy resources to do both, but which can humans do?


But, even things like the levitation trick show a great deal more precision then Gorea showed with psionics, even if we assume that those blasts were psionic.
 
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