Daftatt
"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
A lot of roster changes means that a lot of MUs from 3.0 have change dramatically, almost all changes are arguably in favor of squirtman, with offstage gimps being his bread and butter, the recovery nerfs are a breath of fresh water for the character.
Obviously I can't really definitively assess most of the MUs, since each of us have only fought probably a dozen or so (at max) truly great character mains. But there are some MUs that a lot of us can probably still agree on from 3.0 that didn't really change much. I'll keep this main post up to date with discussion summaries and we can perhaps run polls for each MU to get a better assessment.
here is a rough preliminary MU scale just to keep in mind...
TURTLE SOUP --> ONEROUS --> EVEN (AKA we can't agree) --> ROOM TO STYLE --> PERMA-SHADES
: *PALM SWEATING INTENSIFIES* :
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: PUNCHING BAG... BUT DON'T LET THEM EDGEGUARD YOU:
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: STAGE DEPENDENT ... I MEAN OFFSTAGE DEPENDENT:
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: LOOK AT ALL THESE WHIFFED PROJECTILES:
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: DECADES OF SLAUGHTERING TURTLES COME DOWN TO THIS :
Obviously I can't really definitively assess most of the MUs, since each of us have only fought probably a dozen or so (at max) truly great character mains. But there are some MUs that a lot of us can probably still agree on from 3.0 that didn't really change much. I'll keep this main post up to date with discussion summaries and we can perhaps run polls for each MU to get a better assessment.
here is a rough preliminary MU scale just to keep in mind...
TURTLE SOUP --> ONEROUS --> EVEN (AKA we can't agree) --> ROOM TO STYLE --> PERMA-SHADES
Also, for transparency of bias, here is my personal list, specific to my playstyle.
- WAIT WHAT? THEY KNOW THE MU?:
- UUUGH: , , , , , , ,
- MEH: , , , , , , , , , , ,
- OM NOM NOM: , , , , , , , , ,
- I FEEL BAD FOR THE OPPONENT: , , , ,
: *PALM SWEATING INTENSIFIES* :
Edgeguard Roy by jumping above him and falling straight down with nair.
Daftatt said:The closer you are the harder he hits, so try and bait out attacks then get in by punishing his endlag
:Roy's crouch cancel is so...effective, which is a nightmare for Squirtle. [Roy] is the perfect combo weight to get juggled with uair, and he gets killed so early with bair.
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: PUNCHING BAG... BUT DON'T LET THEM EDGEGUARD YOU:
daftatt said:DDD can edgeguard squirtle so well, waddle dees can gimp and dair can come down through waterfall. I suggest when recovering against DDD (also against any character that comes offstage to edgeguard you) to withdraw in, then jump and shoot them with watergun, and use your window of opportunity to waterfall back to the stage.
:Fish said:I find that inhale throws off Squirtle's spacing. DDD already out-ranges Squirtle, however the one thing that Squirtle has over DDD is a better neutral and a very slippery movement game. DDD is a very aerial character and one of the main uses of inhale is coming down with it as a landing mix-up in order to punish improper spacing. I've used inhale to outrange hydro-grabs and withdraws. I'm pretty sure with the adjustments to D-smash, inhale can also punish a mis-spaced hydro down smash. I'm pretty sure short hop bubble beats inhale, and I have a feeling that water gun is a pretty decent tool against DDD.
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: STAGE DEPENDENT ... I MEAN OFFSTAGE DEPENDENT:
:GETS EASIER, BUT NEVER GETS EASY:Good Falcos aren't that easy depending on the stage
Fox is tough until around 70% because you have to go for tight tech chases to rack on damage (wavedash into D-smash). After that though offstage conversions are a lot easier (also juggles can go forever, uair), and edgeguards on fox are almost silly easy (Dair stuff him). So the MU strategy is really about being restrained until later percentages or else fax gonna wreck ya.
tldr; don't be aggressive early on because fox is going to get way more out of the exchanges than squirtle can until fox is at juggling weight ~60. Getting that first 60 is all hard reads and hard work
Daftatt said:When fox shines squirtle if you do not tech and hold away (assuming you have room to slide) squirtle will slide extremely fast to the other side of the stage and fox will not be able to follow up.
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: LOOK AT ALL THESE WHIFFED PROJECTILES:
:Link can be really easy if you go super agro against them and don't let them space out projectiles.
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: DECADES OF SLAUGHTERING TURTLES COME DOWN TO THIS :
:Jamwa said:for ground game, you want to never let your moves be crouch cancelled or you're eating a dsmash. for this reason (at low percents) i found myself using dair to land behind and shield the dsmash, and then resetting to neutral. water gun and bubble into grabs are also very useful, because uthrow leads into quite a lot of %. ctilt is very useful for catching mario before he lands, but with the reduced hitbox im not so sure if this beats falling aerials. try catching poorly spaced or really obvious aerial approaches with WD Dsmash. dont commit to combos though, mario's dair/nair/uair are all very fast and good for escaping, so be wary of those.
More Mario Notes By Jamwa
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