The best characters in teams

[t3h Icy]

Sue me, I like lists and statistics.

Well we sort of have Singles done or at least molded, but how about teams now? Obviously going through all the possibilities is both impossible and pointless, but perhaps ranks would be interesting to discuss. Teams is interesting because characters that require good spacing like Link and DK have more difficulty in approaching (unless they're far from both opponents), and other characters like Kirby and Luigi have more killing potential by having a teammate which can easily pass opponents (although usually unintentionally) and with everyone more close up, speed loses a lot of value.

So, what are your opinions on who the best characters are in teams, and why? And should I bother making a list individual characters (not teams of characters), even though we have enough problems with Singles?

As a Falcon player, I do find Falcon Punches easier to pull off has it's harder to draw your attention to three other people rather than one, and SS/Tang style combos are always a blast with Falcon. But Falcon's rather bad recovery makes him difficult to use with up to two people hunting him down and Falcon nice speed loses a lot of merit since an opponent is much closer. I would say Falcon is not as good in teams, and his long spread out combos (in terms of across the stage) are easier to escape if the opponent's teammate or occasionally, your teammate disrupts it.

My guess on best team character is probably Pikachu and then maybe Kirby. Fox is a little meh in teams.

 

[WOTG]

Team match-ups should be included, as in a Luigi ditto team or Luigi+Jigglpuff..etc..

 

[t3h Icy]

You do realize how many teams that is right?

 

[WOTG]

Lol yeah, but the point of teams is to work as a team, and as a team, you can pull off some pretty sweet team comboes. Some teams of specific characters are really good at doing that.
But then again, just taking "individuals" could be the right way, seeing as how most characters pairing with someone like Luigi or Jigglypuff can do much.

 

[Deleted member]

this topics already done


pika kirby are the best characters for teams

 

[DMoogle]

Meh, 144 match-ups isn't too bad.

Only a bit over 3x Brawl's roster.

 

[t3h Icy]

12x12 would just be singles all over, and you're counting not only mirrors, but also the opposite side (which is the same).Teams would be almost ten thousand match-ups. But that's not the point of this topic.

 

[DMoogle]

12x12 would just be singles all over, and you're counting not only mirrors, but also the opposite side (which is the same).Teams would be almost ten thousand match-ups. But that's not the point of this topic.

Wow I'm... not entirely sure what was going through my mind when I made that post.

That probably explains why I played like crap today.

 

[Rx-]

@ teh ICY: do you even play competitively?

or just for fun?


because.....

pikachu and kirby are terrible in teams

and fox is the best teams character by a long shot

 

[Lovage]

Rx this is the 64 board not ssbm

 

[Nybb]

Teams is a lot harder to judge than singles because there are EVEN less tournaments to get data from ... and really, it wouldn't change much from singles play. Better characters in singles will still be better overall IMO. Nothing magically makes a character better when there is an extra opponent.

 

[dch111]

I find certain team combinations to be almost magically effective, the characters being perfect complements, but I always forget to remember which ones, or if they consistently are.

As for individual characters though, from my experience, luigi, DK, samus, and kirby are the most enhanced by team play compared to their one-vs-one performances.

 

[SSBPete]

if team attack is on ness and ness cause of b down

 

[NixxxoN]

I find that generally the best team combination is:

FAST SPAMMING CHAR (fox, falcon, pika) + EASY KILLING CHAR (dk, luigi)

And work well together

Kirby and mario work well in teams too in my experience

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Gimping characters work better in teams

Samus in my opinion is better than link in teams since Link is easily gimped and samus escapes combos easily
Yoshi and ness are more than likely worse, since missing DJC's means heavy damage and people cannot help Yoshi out of combos due to hitting Yoshi/Ness's DJC.
Fox is slightly worse, since you can laser your partner and fox combos can be easily interrupted in teams.
Jigglypuff is a "glass cannon." You can kill easily, but you die incredibly easily.
Luigi is better and so is mario. Both of these characters kill quickly and gimp well. Luigi has no problem spacing since people are forced to apporach
Falcon is better, probably the best at team combos

Its probably:

A
Pikachu
Kirby

B
Falcon
Fox
Mario
Luigi

C
Jigglypuff
DK
Ness
Yoshi

D
Samus
Link

 

[Gea]

Oh wow this thread is silly, but with a noble backbone. In all teams matches it comes down to:

1. Ease of landing finishing blows.
2. Size of your character (DK is gonna get tossed around like a ragdoll on smaller stages)
3. How much space your character needs
4. Their ability to wall with a single move
5. If they have any easy setups into other characters stuff.
6. Finally, but definitely one of the more important ones, how quickly can they recover (if at all)

Moves like ping/rest get a leg up in doubles but since killing isn't that big of a deal I would say every character has something in the way of killing. Ness is actually pretty dang good just because his priority is amazing and he doesn't have to worry about approach. You can just utilt/uair all day then grab spam and it isn't as big of an issue. I'd say top 6 goes something like Pika, Kirby, Falcon, Fox, Ness, Mario as in general. Specific teammates are less important than playing off of each other's games well. Falcon is above Fox for throw setups imo.

 

[Deleted member]

n64 teams is all about racking up damage,gimps, and not getting ***** really bad

Pika and Kirby are the best at doing that, Kirby can up-tilt to like 70 percent while Pika can do extra long gimps and its hard to kill him

The key is to rack up damage or gimp super easily before the partner can come in to disrupt your combo and both Pika and Kirby are hard to mess up if they are edgeguarding your partner because Kirby can kick 180 degrees above his head

Fox isn't bad either but he can't rack up damage as fast as Kirby and doesn't have the best recovery. Falcon is decent too but he gets ***** if he messes up

Ness is not that good in teams, if only up-tilt/up-air and GRAB SPAM could be good enough but those are noob ****** tools

every character can work out pretty good in teams but PIKA and KIRby are the best thats it

 

[Lawrencelot]

ness + fox or ness + mario is also pretty good. And jiggs + fox or jiggs + falcon

 

[Wenbobular]

Ness gets gimped by like, everybody and their mother.
I think Mario actually goes like, 3rd on this teams tier list. He's much harder to get gimped, and being a floaty he also is much better at getting out of the combos that rack up fast damage ... like Kirby's Utilt.
Also, UpSmash beats everything coming from the air, cool drill gimps...

 

[t3h Icy]

Rx this is the 64 board not ssbm

I lol'd hard. Too funny.

Err, I never really liked Ness in teams as a partner. The whole partner-spam recovery thing isn't that great. First you both are open when doing so, so unless both opponents are currently dead, it's not going to work out very nicely, and even less on a stage other than Hyrule. Secondly, Fox is probably one of the fastest at healing Ness, and it's not that fast. And lastly, just because Ness can get healed doesn't make him all that great. Potentially it could be like giving Ness a whole new stock, but Ness basically needs that to make up for what he lacks as a partner in a team.

I would agree the Mario Bros are awesome in teams, but I personally don't like using Falcon in teams. His combos are easy to interrupt and Falcon is easy to gimp. True, he does have nice team combos, but so do most other characters.

 

[Nintendude]

A teams tier list probably roughly follows the regular one but Samus gets significantly better imo. She's good at hoarding stocks and she does a really good job finishing off opponents after your teammate builds up the damage.

 

[Pav7300]

Oh wow this thread is silly, but with a noble backbone. In all teams matches it comes down to:

1. Ease of landing finishing blows.
2. Size of your character (DK is gonna get tossed around like a ragdoll on smaller stages)
3. How much space your character needs
4. Their ability to wall with a single move
5. If they have any easy setups into other characters stuff.
6. Finally, but definitely one of the more important ones, how quickly can they recover (if at all)

Moves like ping/rest get a leg up in doubles but since killing isn't that big of a deal I would say every character has something in the way of killing. Ness is actually pretty dang good just because his priority is amazing and he doesn't have to worry about approach. You can just utilt/uair all day then grab spam and it isn't as big of an issue. I'd say top 6 goes something like Pika, Kirby, Falcon, Fox, Ness, Mario as in general. Specific teammates are less important than playing off of each other's games well. Falcon is above Fox for throw setups imo.

Wtf are you talking about?

 

[MattNF]

I've found mario is better for teams than he is in singles

he can save his teammates with uair and fireballs, he can spam fireballs to force an approach, and is generally a good character all around

 

[Lovage]

i think ness is a better character in teams because his super slow and punishable recovery isn't as bad when your teammate can protect the ledge, his bthrow is also very good

 

[Wenbobular]

Wait, doesn't teams reward characters with better recoveries much more than those with terrible ones? If your recover is terrible (Ness) then that means your opponent actually has a chance of gimping you, whereas someone with a good recovery (i.e., Pika, Mario) can almost always get back to the ledge / stall long enough for their partner to come help out.

 

[Lovage]

the point is that if a pikachu bthrows ness near the edge in 1v1, the ness will probably die 97% of the time, but in teams, your partner can protect the ledge while you recover

good recoveries are still good recoveries in teams, but characters that might be limited because of their ****ty recovery in singles aren't as bad

 

[SheerMadness]

Yoshi is good in teams.

Good recovery, great kill moves, great at dealing damage.

 

[Gea]

good recoveries are still good recoveries in teams, but characters that might be limited because of their ****ty recovery in singles aren't as bad

This. It also helps if your bad recovery doesn't take a really long time. As for someone saying that people won't get grabbed as much or run into stuff... that's what happens in doubles. You can't space as precisely all of the time and are forced to play much more closely than a singles match allows you to.

So it is much easier to spam effective moves defensively than you'd think. Teams requires a slightly different mindset.

 

[Deleted member]

recovery taking a long time to get back like nesses

it hurts your on-stage partner because then it allows easy 2v1 situations and harder to save your Ness partner since it lets your opponents get up in your grill and make it really hard to save him

 

[NixxxoN]

Ness sucks in teams as long as the opponents can gimp/edgeguard

Ness cant expect his partner to help him on every recovery

 

[SilentSlayers]

Good point s2j.

I agree with Sheer.

 

[Lovage]

recovery taking a long time to get back like nesses

it hurts your on-stage partner because then it allows easy 2v1 situations and harder to save your Ness partner since it lets your opponents get up in your grill and make it really hard to save him

actually that's true, so ness is probably worse in teams than singles i change my mind


in ssbm u can hit off characters like jigglypuff with slow recoveries and ignore the edgeguard and 2v1 the remaining character, this is my favorite team tactic

 

[dch111]

Ness was good in teams back when it was all about grabs and spikes. Now he simply can't meet up to my demands.

For fox I depend heavily on drill > utilt/dtilt > drill > jab etc. which are much harder to pull of in the midst of four players.

With four players kirby has a fine selection of powers to choose from. One time an enemy kirby stole my falcon punch, and his teammate always managed to land grabs whenever this kirby was nearby. Needless to say, I really wished team attack were on at that moment cause that was some really painful @%!# lol

A thing I like to do when friends insist team attack be off is be luigi and when they start spamming attacks against my shield from both sides I do upB out of shield. There is nothing like punishing that bs.

 

[ballin4life]

You gotta play with team attack on. Otherwise you can have two characters stand on top of each other and just attack all the time (like desynched ice climbers basically).

 

[†¹Ãgøn¥¹†]

I find that team that counter pick your partner's character are good.

Like:

Fox - Jigg

Luigi - Link

Pika - Yoshi

Falcon - DK

Mario - Samus

Kirby - Ness

That way there's less chance the oppenent counter picks because it would come to a ditto, and lot's of people don't much like dittos.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Ok that last post doesn't make sense to me.

And seriously how often do you see Ness players recover with upB? It's not as if they are recovering all the time so their partner has to wait for him to come back or protect him. In singles, if Ness is recovering he is as good as dead already, in doubles there's just a slightly higher chance he'll make it back. Ness can do enough things on the field like dair or uptilt or upair, which work very well in an environment where people aren't spacing perfectly all the time (i.e. a doubles game). His downB is an added small bonus if his partner is mario or fox, because it happens often enough that mario or fox kills two opponents at once (upsmash).

 

[Wenbobular]

I find that team that counter pick your partner's character are good.

Like:

Fox - Jigg

Luigi - Link

Pika - Yoshi

Falcon - DK

Mario - Samus

Kirby - Ness

That way there's less chance the oppenent counter picks because it would come to a ditto, and lot's of people don't much like dittos.

Whaaaa?
What kind of messed up teams are those? It looks like you just put a bunch of dudes together ...

 

[Blue Yoshi]

From what I understand, if your opponent chooses a character on the left, using a character on the right to counter that character will help the team.

What would happen if it were like this:

Ness & Luigi vs Jigglypuff & Link?

Ness > Link > Luigi > Jigglypuff > Ness.

Teams are completely different from singles, so the singles matchup chart is, for the most part, no longer important in determining the best character in doubles.

 

[Zen Yore]

DK and samus = best team ever

inb4 jongo combo lol etc

but seriously, this is a very nice idea
thumbs up, i support this

coolface.jpg

 

[Gea]

Teams are completely different from singles, so the singles matchup chart is, for the most part, no longer important in determining the best character in doubles.

This SO much. Smash doubles are actually very similar in all three games by what is important and how to successfully play off of your teammate. Doubles are waaaaay too fun.

Best moments are forcing a tech. If they tech in place or in front, they get hit by your partner. If they roll towards you, you're waiting. MMMMM. And the more you play doubles, the more fluid situations like this become so that it just happens. God I love it. To me doubles is where the smash series really does shine (no pun intended).