The Doc: Game Play General

[#HBC | Ryker]

Biggest question: Does he still have the weak to strong nair.

Second: I've seen Doc pull a good fair in the CT video, but I was wondering if Doc could string fairs to dunk?

First, read the thread as it's already been mentioned.

Second, what? Fairs ARE his dunk. I'm assuming you mean Uairs? I don't think he has anything that can lead into Fair. You're going to have to get it on a read. It'll likely be a pretty situational move.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Can I ask how Dair works? In some vids I've seen it hit once and have high KB(mainly Hanayama), other times I've seen it hit multiple times. What's the deal?

 

[Xinc]

First, read the thread as it's already been mentioned.

Second, what? Fairs ARE his dunk. I'm assuming you mean Uairs? I don't think he has anything that can lead into Fair. You're going to have to get it on a read. It'll likely be a pretty situational move.

I meant uairs. It was a typo. Also I like your profile picture. It's cute.

 

[Spinach Ops™]

Figured this belonged in the 'Doctor Mario Gameplay' thread as well .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YobEKotgU3A

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Can I ask how Dair works? In some vids I've seen it hit once and have high KB(mainly Hanayama), other times I've seen it hit multiple times. What's the deal?

Almost every multihit move has a finisher now. Dair is no exception. It's multihit just like Melee Mario/Doc dair, but it has a finisher at the end with solid KB that can kill reasonably if you get the last hit.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Double posting because I just unlocked UpB 2. It's a much, MUCH better angleable recovery that has no hitbox. Unsure if it's better than UpB 3 for the kill blow.

 

[Japsy]

Wouldnt his recovery automatically be better than Mario's since Mario doesnt have the tornado?
Also the cape doesn't even help regular Mario recover, just stall

 

[AsinineProfessor]

Excited to hear that the Doc is making his return. Quick question(s) though: How is his weight/floatiness? Dash speed?

I read here earlier that his recovery seems to be poor as it was in Melee. What do you all foresee as being his best options for special moves in terms of maximizing recovery? And the return of the reverse sex kick is awesome.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Quick question(s) though: How is his weight/floatiness? Dash speed?

Mario's. They move the same.

I read here earlier that his recovery seems to be poor as it was in Melee. What do you all foresee as being his best options for special moves in terms of maximizing recovery? And the return of the reverse sex kick is awesome.

Simply in terms of maximizing recovery efficacy: Cape 1, Tornado 2, UpB 2. I'm still unsure if you wouldn't rather have UpB 3 for the kill blow.

 

[AGES]

I'm still unsure if you wouldn't rather have UpB 3 for the kill blow.

Personally I'd vote for UpB 3, from the sounds of it downb 2 gives plenty enough recovery,(DI, tornado, djump, up b for recovery pattern so you aren't wide open doing the tornado near the stage) and the thought of a quick OOS move that kills around 100 just seems so tantalizing, especially in this game

I guess it will come down to preference in the end though, given that custom moves end up tourney legal

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You'll have to play it. The choice seems very real to me.

 

[Poxnixles]

Do we have anything more concrete about ALL the differences between Doc and Mario, and maybe even how he relates to his Melee self?

 

[!BSP]

Doc's Jump Punch 3 gives him a fire jump punch. Two hitboxes. 16% for the end hit, 27 if you get both hits. Kills at like 90.

Tornado 2 goes crazy high and has a wind-box, but removes all the damage, turning it into a pure recovery tool.

Cape 2 removes the stalling effect from Cape 1 (which wasn';t much to begin with). Lowers the damage from ~10 to ~5 and keeps the reversal effect. However it also has a giant wind-box just past the cape. Should you hit them with the cape, they will fly much farther than if you hit them with Cape1, as the momentum is boosted by the windbox. Unsure if it still reflects projectiles.

Great...you have to give up damage and stall to get the cape that was in brawl. That sucks.

 

[Manutirado99]

UP B is now only 1 strong atack
DOWN B is just like Melee
FORWARD B is the cap, but it is really fast
NEUTRAL B is like in Melee

I dont really know the diference between Mario and Doc in his aerials and ground atacks

 

[Flying_Skitty]

I like now he is a Semi-Clone now so that's cool, but he gets a lot of hate still. :l

 

[!BSP]

Nvm, saw the video. Yeah, like I thought, tornado 1's stall probably won't make a huge difference in the long run, and you have to sacrifice the hitbox to get a better one.

The power is ok I guess, but I still don't see why you shouldn't just Dmash/Usmash.

 

[Flying_Skitty]

I find F-Smash the best for KOing opponents in Melee rather than U-Smash and D-Smash.

 

[AGES]

UP B is now only 1 strong atack
DOWN B is just like Melee
FORWARD B is the cap, but it is really fast
NEUTRAL B is like in Melee

I dont really know the diference between Mario and Doc in his aerials and ground atacks

Doc's Nair damage is like in melee where it gets stronger the longer it's actually out(reverse sex kick)
fair has the weird angle and heavy KB like in melee, but its viability is apparently hit pretty hard by the DI/blastzones
Bair has a semispike hitbox.
Dair is like melee but with a nice finisher at the end.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nvm, saw the video. Yeah, like I thought, tornado 1's stall probably won't make a huge difference in the long run, and you have to sacrifice the hitbox to get a better one.

The power is ok I guess, but I still don't see why you shouldn't just Dmash/Usmash.

Tornado 2, I found out, does have a hitbox, but only at the apex.

 

[Folt]

Tornado 2, I found out, does have a hitbox, but only at the apex.

Sounds like he'll have Luigi's tornado customs. His Super Jump Punch moves sound rather unique from both though.

 

[Spinach Ops™]

Here's a happy match , in black .
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5WlcraI3w-E

 

[Skymin50]

So right now - who's better, Doc or Mario? Are they too different to tell? Are they just equal?

I'll probably pick up Mario AND Doc because they're pretty okay, but I just want to make sure.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Got the game today and I unlocked Doc first, in the lab right now and can anyone else confirm this but, is Doc's uptilt slightly better than Mario's? I feel like it has more hitstun and slightly more KB, meaning Uptilt chains are a bit more reliable at low %s. Can anyone help me research this?

Edit: Did some more testing, game didn't count it as a real combo so I'm gonna leave it at that, but maybe the better KB might make it better for strings? Just spitballing, he's really fun to play as though.

 

[AGES]

Got the game today and I unlocked Doc first, in the lab right now and can anyone else confirm this but, is Doc's uptilt slightly better than Mario's? I feel like it has more hitstun and slightly more KB, meaning Uptilt chains are a bit more reliable at low %s. Can anyone help me research this?

Edit: Did some more testing, game didn't count it as a real combo so I'm gonna leave it at that, but maybe the better KB might make it better for strings? Just spitballing, he's really fun to play as though.

Sounds interesting, ill be checking it out later today once I get the game.
Keep vectoring in mind btw when it comes to KB. I also heard from friends that the "true combo" thing in training isn't very reliable.

 

[Rizen]

Quick questions: what are the differences between regular and Dr.Mario? Would you say one is better than the other?
Sorry if these were answered; I didn't read the entire thread.

 

[Folt]

Quick questions: what are the differences between regular and Dr.Mario? Would you say one is better than the other?
Sorry if these were answered; I didn't read the entire thread.

Doc in general has more kill power, his Neutral B (the pills) have a stronger bounce than Mario's, his Down B and dair are different, his f-smash is lightning-elemental in contrast to Mario's fire-elemental one, Side B doesn't stall in the air unlike Mario's, nair is stronger the longer it's out, Super Jump Punch is a single-hit move with sweet-spot KO power, unlike Mario's, bair hits opponents at a slightly lower angle, fair is not a meteor, slowed down version of Mario's animation (there may be some other differences), different taunts, and Final Smash is visually different from Mario's.

 

[AGES]

Not quite sure if hes better than mario, his Uair feels like it lost a lot of combo potential, and his recovery is HORRIBLE compared to mario.

Speaking on more of how Doc himself works, I think bair is probably one of if not his best move, its a great spacing move and edgeguarding tool at the same time

But seriously, Ryker wasn't kidding when he said Docs recovery was practically mac tier, sure its not quite as bad but my god you can die at LOW percents for this game if you're hit off the stage at a lower angle. His tornado 2 custom isnt really helpful either, since he stays in his super saiyan pose for an extended time and you dont get any horizontal reach off of it. Haven't gotten his higher Up B yet though, might end up being the better option for custom tourneys

Whether he sucks or not though, he'll definitely remain my favorite character next to Pacman and I'll always keep him as a pocket

 

[TTTTTsd]

My impressions of Doc is that he's definitely worse than Mario, but in all honesty he's still fine. Will probably end up at the top of the low tiers or the bottom of the mids, but definitely still usable and far from the worst in the game.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I believe this warrants a double post(in the same day, my apologies) but I discovered something peculiar about Doc's Up+B. Pardon my lame voice.

 

[AGES]

Kinda cool, might also be a funny alternative to bair for edgeguarding when your opponent expects a bair

 

[Skymin50]

I've been kind of repelled away from Doc despite me loving him being back in Smash 4 because of that recovery. I tend to accidentally fast fall while trying to Down-B, and it ****s me over. Any suggestions on how to get used to it and try to play Doc? I love him, but I'm scared of that recovery.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Your best bet is to try to play on FD stages with walls on them as Doc has a walljump. God bless him because he NEEDS it. Other than that, I'd recommend trying to get used to down-Bing out of reflex alone if you wanna play Doc, otherwise I think you should go normal Mario.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

So I think I might main Dr. Mario, so I decided to take the liberty of creating customs.

I've been playing as him for quite a while, but I would like to know the differences between Dr. Mario & Mario (speed and power, not different moves).

 

[TTTTTsd]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2i960u/mario_vs_dr_mario/
Here's a good post about Speed and Power, beyond the obvious stuff like worse recovery, more KB on stuff, more damage.

Doc has way more onstage kill potential than Mario methinks, but I still think Mario is more solid overall. This is a good summary post of the differences though.

 

[Folt]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2i960u/mario_vs_dr_mario/
Here's a good post about Speed and Power, beyond the obvious stuff like worse recovery, more KB on stuff, more damage.

Doc has way more onstage kill potential than Mario methinks, but I still think Mario is more solid overall. This is a good summary post of the differences though.

I just tested some of that (the movement speeds and the jumping) and he's right. Dr. Mario really is a slower, more powerful Mario as he was said to be this time around.

 

[Kisatamura]

Dair is a funny edgeguard tool, this is what I did in a CPU match with dairs for edgeguard.

Within the first couple seconds of the vid I use the dair for a gimp, and then near the end I use the dair facing the stage, away from Yoshi and I end up stage spiking him. Admittedly I should've used a different opponent but I luckily saved the match so I could share this.

 

[Sir Tundra]

After trying out doc myself. I realized that doc with custom moves is a whole different beast altogether. His Fast Pills are basically the pill equivalent of falcos lasers, soaring tornado is a really good recovery move, and the gust tornado is basically his regular cape but better as it sends opponents far away and turns them to the other direction making it a dangerous gimping tool.

I think i might actually make doc a primary main if custom moves were allowed.

 

[Rizen]

Thanks for answering my questions
Later.

 

[Skymin50]

As a Mario main, how would one recommend getting into Dr. Mario? He looks like a blast to play, and of course I want to, but I've had a hard time getting used to recovery. I don't want to mention how many times I've fast-falled whilst trying to recover with Down-B.

I just got destroyed by one too

Any suggestions? How should I change up playstyle from Mario?

 

[Folt]

Doc's mobility is slower all around in all parameters, other than falling speed. Your recovery will always be poor (and the Doc's sheet no longer stalls in the air), but you can take advantage of that falling speed in terms of getting some vertical "reach" on your aerials and side specials. The Doc also jumps lower than Mario which is also not too good.

Mario is a better gimper, but the Doc's tools are better for on-stage killing. If you can, a well placed bair can ruin an opponent's recovery, but remember that you have the power that Mario somewhat lacks.

D-throw's comboability is reduced from Mario's version, but his other throws are more powerful and can function as launchers.

I've found that the Doc's F-Smash does more damage the closer the Doc is to his opponent. While both parts can kill, if you can get into an opponent's face, that's cool.

Mario is a combo god. The Doc is not, though he can manage simple combos. The Doc's forte lies in his greater power so you should exploit that to get earlier kills safely from on-stage.

Unlike Mario who will use his fireball for approaching, the Doc's pills are best used for stage control. If you need to catch some breathing room, use pills. Rather than approaching the opponent with your poor mobility, it might be best to let the opponent come to you the way you want to, and pills help with that.

To help Dr. Mario's lousy recovery, use the Dr. Tornado as you're jumping and mash the button to get more height. The move can also be used for occasional attacks and works alright to rack up damage.

The Doc's Super Jump Punch is now a single-hit move with a sweet-spot at the start of it, not a multi-hit move. It complements the Doc's strength, so if you can hit with the sweet-spot, that'd be swell.

As said above, Doc's sheet no longer stalls in the air. While this nerfs his recovery, it does give you some vertical advantage in terms of reflecting projectiles back and flipping recovering opponents around.

The Doc's dair has a spike sweet-spot, I believe. If you can reliably hit with it, it could be used to get some early kills, though remember that Doc has a lousy recovery and that Bair and Sheet will be your main gimping tools.

That's all. I'm not one of the people who main the Doc, but I hope I helped you out all the same.