• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Legend of Zelda The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - NO SPOILERS, USE THE SPOILER THREAD PLEASE

theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,398
Location
Houston, TX
No one is arguing that voice acting = higher immersion. It has to be a good set of VAs and directing for that to happen. At the same time, I think people should be open to all sorts of change. I've definitely played my share of games where I got migraines listening to the horrendous acting. At the same time, I've enjoyed games that have done it right. Just like how I was open and still am to motion controls, there's nothing wrong with having a Zelda game try its share of VAs. I mean, who would have thunk that the FF series would have taken that route? It could still be a text based game today, and were someone to suggest VAs, people would probably **** bricks.

I just think if done right, VA can add so much to the lore and story telling of Zelda. I mean, even if it takes baby steps...how about we start with just having a narrator? If that works, then go to the NPCs.

Besides, I'm sure there will always be the option to turn VAs off.
 
The Real Gamer

The Real Gamer

Smash Hero
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,166
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
3DS FC
3437-3797-6559
That comment about immersion wasn't directed at anyone here specifically it's just a common argument I've seen in support of voice acting... including reviewers.
 
Jam Stunna

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
The Real Gamer said:
More people need to realize that yes most video games greatly benefit from voice acting. However, LoZ games are not those types of games. LoZ fans didn't become intrigued by the Zelda universe through cut scenes and random dialogue, they became intrigued as a result of the atmosphere the games provide, the dungeons, the bosses, the amazing soundtracks, etc.

Plus the whole argument that voice acting = a higher level of immersion is far from the truth. One of the most intense games I've ever played was a visual novel adventure. No voice acting, no long drawn out cut scenes, still characters, and it was all text.

Bottom line is that the Zelda series at this point has very, very little to gain and a LOT to lose as a result of voice acting. I mean do we REALLY need to hear Link talk?
Click to expand...
Most of those fans came into Zelda when voice acting was not an industry standard. Gaming has changed since OoT; hell, it's changed since TP, which was five years ago. That's an eternity in gaming. Zelda games may not need spoken dialogue for you, which is fine. But to say that they don't need them at all is to ignore what gaming has become.

I just find it frustrating when people excuse Nintendo's refusal to move into modern gaming as some sort of endearing quirkiness as opposed to what it really is: cheapness masquerading as artistry.
 
The Real Gamer

The Real Gamer

Smash Hero
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,166
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
3DS FC
3437-3797-6559
Jam Stunna said:
Most of those fans came into Zelda when voice acting was not an industry standard. Gaming has changed since OoT; hell, it's changed since TP, which was five years ago. That's an eternity in gaming. Zelda games may not need spoken dialogue for you, which is fine. But to say that they don't need them at all is to ignore what gaming has become.

I just find it frustrating when people excuse Nintendo's refusal to move into modern gaming as some sort of endearing quirkiness as opposed to what it really is: cheapness masquerading as artistry.
Click to expand...
Note that I said "at this point" and not "never." Maybe sometime in the future when VA is requested more changes will be made, but at this moment not only is VA unnecessary for the Zelda series, it's not a popular choice among Zelda fans. Why include something so risky that isn't even WANTED by the majority of their fan base?

Here are a couple of recent polls on the opinion. No huge sample sizes or anything but you get the point. VA in the Zelda series is still a fairly unpopular choice. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.326621-Poll-Should-Zelda-games-have-voice-acting http://forums.qj.net/wii-games/78919-should-zelda-games-have-voice-acting.html

On another note why are you acting as if Nintendo is this super conservative game company that is afraid of change? I'm more than sure you are aware of how radically different (combat wise) SS is when compared to the past Zeldas thanks to the new sword mechanics. That in and of itself was a huge gamble, and for the most part it looks like it paid off. Nintendo is definitely doing their best to keep the series fresh. They may not be making the changes YOU want to see at the moment, but they're definitely making changes...
 
theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,398
Location
Houston, TX
One can argue that games on Sony and Microsoft are more conservative. Make better graphics and...what else exactly?

Don't get me wrong, there are still some interesting IPs. Mod Nation Racers, Uncharted (though it's getting a bit stale), Batman was nice, Little Big Planet, etc.

Btw TRG, the IGN poll I recall had votes in the 20,000s, and the majority wanted some sort of VA in future Zelda games. Wish I could find the article. Just saiyan.
 
Luigitoilet

Luigitoilet

shattering perfection
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
13,718
Location
secret room of wonder and despair
Jam Stunna said:
Most of those fans came into Zelda when voice acting was not an industry standard. Gaming has changed since OoT; hell, it's changed since TP, which was five years ago. That's an eternity in gaming. Zelda games may not need spoken dialogue for you, which is fine. But to say that they don't need them at all is to ignore what gaming has become.

I just find it frustrating when people excuse Nintendo's refusal to move into modern gaming as some sort of endearing quirkiness as opposed to what it really is: cheapness masquerading as artistry.
Click to expand...
Sure, when you lay some arbitrary guidelines for what defines what a "game" (or more specifically, a "modern game") should be, which in this case appears to include "voice acting", then yeah I guess every game that doesn't confine to those guidelines is bad or outdated or whatever.

By my limited observance of the current gen of video games, mainstream modern gaming is mostly moving into more cinematic territory. It is rare now, that designers focus on the mechanics that separate video games from film and literature- the gameplay. Modern gaming seems to be more about refining the presentation of the story. They do this by aping other mediums, specifically cinema.

So, say, Bioshock tells a story of the idea of utopia and dystopia...but how does it tell that story? Well.....you shoot guys.......hey, but at least there's voice acting and cutscenes!

What makes Zelda games appealing is not what makes Heavy Rain appealing. They are both video games though. Should Zelda be more like Heavy Rain, in order to "move into modern gaming" and stop being "cheap"? Why does voice acting define modern gaming? Should Link also have a morality dialogue mechanic? Or hell we can go further. Should Link have regen health? Should Zelda be a sandbox game?

It's just a bit shortsighted to say "THIS is what this game needs...why? because other games have it."
 
Jam Stunna

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
But Zelda is just as cinematic as Bioshock (maybe not Heavy Rain, I'll concede that) and the other big games of the current generation. And If you're going to have cutscenes, why does it make sense to not have them voiced? The technology wasn't there before, but it is now.

Skyward Sword is trying to deliver a cinematic experience just like every other triple A game now does. There are non-interactive cutscenes everywhere in that game, even for something as simple as entering a dungeon for the first time. So yes, if you're going for a cinema quality experience, which SS clearly is, then you do need more voice acting.

No one has offered an explanation for why Zelda doesn't have voice acting other than, "Because it's Zelda," which is shorthand for, "Because that's the way I remember it. That's fine for those of us who remember Zelda before it was a cinematic experience. But now it is, and if Nintendo continues to basically half-*** that experience with grunts and lips moving to slow-scrolling text, then Zelda will continue to look dated and irrelevant to anyone who didn't play LttP as a child.
 
Spire

Spire

III
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
15,079
Location
Texas
Perhaps they're going for a more storybook feel. That way we can imagine what their voices sound like with some guidance from the grunts and sighs. I'm fine with it, not because it reminds me of the past, but because I like to read the dialog myself. However, if they ventured into full voice acting, you won't hear me complaining (unless of course it sucks). I'm so comfortable with the Zelda formula that I wouldn't mind seeing it stretched in just about any direction for the sake of experimentation.
 
Luigitoilet

Luigitoilet

shattering perfection
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
13,718
Location
secret room of wonder and despair
Jam Stunna said:
But Zelda is just as cinematic as Bioshock (maybe not Heavy Rain, I'll concede that) and the other big games of the current generation. And If you're going to have cutscenes, why does it make sense to not have them voiced? The technology wasn't there before, but it is now.

Skyward Sword is trying to deliver a cinematic experience just like every other triple A game now does. There are non-interactive cutscenes everywhere in that game, even for something as simple as entering a dungeon for the first time. So yes, if you're going for a cinema quality experience, which SS clearly is, then you do need more voice acting.

No one has offered an explanation for why Zelda doesn't have voice acting other than, "Because it's Zelda," which is shorthand for, "Because that's the way I remember it. That's fine for those of us who remember Zelda before it was a cinematic experience. But now it is, and if Nintendo continues to basically half-*** that experience with grunts and lips moving to slow-scrolling text, then Zelda will continue to look dated and irrelevant to anyone who didn't play LttP as a child.
Click to expand...
I dunno, I'm not sure where everyone is coming from when they talk about SS that way. I'm 50 hours in, going to the sixth dungeon and there...are barely any cutscenes. Sure, if you count the 3 second dungeon intros and the boss introductions, okay. But as far as narrative? As far as cinematic plot exposition? I'm frankly pretty taken aback at how minimalistic the narrative is, and how much of a background object the overall plot is. I basically know just as much of the overall story of the game as I did four dungeons ago. Because every major cutscene, once you first descend to the surface lasted maybe 2 minutes tops. The vast majority of the text (thus far) is directly related to what the game is about(as opposed to the presentation of the game)- I.E. gameplay mechanics, your mission objective, puzzle hints, and secrets/sidequests in the game world. No, I don't think hearing Gaepora tell me to press A to dash is essential or even necessary. I don't see this as an egregious error on Nintendo's part.


It's not that I don't think voice acting is unnecessary for Zelda specifically, I think voice acting is unnecessary for games period. The time, money and resources spent on hiring and recording VA could be used to polish and apply interesting gameplay mechanics. I don't think it's something that's really worth actively criticizing this specific game over because I hardly see it as a requisite for gaming in the first place. I don't think games should be obligated to do it just because that's the trend of the masses. If you were talking about the lack of a controllable/moveable camera in SS you would have a perfectly valid point. Voice acting is auxiliary, at best. I'm aware I'm most likely in an extreme minority with that opinion though.

I could be right on the onset of some big swath of cutscenes and exposition or something so I dunno but to put this game in the same league of the cinema aping presentation of Bioshock befuddles me to the point of silence.
 
theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,398
Location
Houston, TX
So, I just realized. In the very beginning when Link gets his clothes...
Zelda's dad is watching him dress.
What?

And now I realized that in WW, doesn't Link change in front of his grandma?

In OoT, after you pull the sword from Temple of Time, your clothes are changed courtesy of some old dude.

I am disturbed.
 
E

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
aside from SS I also don't recall link ever having bathing facilities in his house(and there he just lives with other people...), and he never changes except when others make him

link is a hobo
 
Spire

Spire

III
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
15,079
Location
Texas
etecoon said:
aside from SS I also don't recall link ever having bathing facilities in his house(and there he just lives with other people...), and he never changes except when others make him

link is a hobo
Click to expand...
Think about what you said here.
 
theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,398
Location
Houston, TX
I don't know why that link is labeled as "casualgamer." I thought a casual gamer would be identified as some 13 year old ADD kid?
 
Sucumbio

Sucumbio

Smash Giant
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
8,216
Location
Icerim Mountains
Jam Stunna said:
No one has offered an explanation for why Zelda doesn't have voice acting
Click to expand...
I always thought it was to enhance the effect of bearing witness to the adventure rather than being an actual part of it.

Uh... hm. That's convoluted.

What I mean to to say is... .... ... ... as you play through the game, you're not really controlling Link. You ARE, of course, but... experience-wise it's intended for it to be like you're reading a storybook in a foreign language so all you can really do is make out the pictures.

In other words if there was voice acting in English, it'd ruin the intended experience, because there is no English in Hyrule.

"Then why are the subtitles in English?"

Because you still have to be able to play the game, I mean, there's experience and then there's game-play, and having your missions doled out in streams of %*&%^ does not a happy gamer make.


As for the other thing... I hate to say it, but Sony got the jump on voice-acted gaming with the Playstation. Zelda wouldn't necessarily benefit from it. Besides all I'd hear every time I see Link about to open his mouth is:

"Well excuuuuuuse ME princess!" and I'd have to dropkick the TV out of the window.
 
E

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
who said VA had to be english? or even a real language, played ICO or SotC?

not that I think zelda should have VA even, but that's not a real reason why it's a bad idea either
 
Spire

Spire

III
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
15,079
Location
Texas
The only voice acting I've ever wanted in Zelda is an artificial language. Hell, Zelda actually sang in the beginning of Skyward Sword and it sounded great—and it wasn't English. Expressions like, "HEEEEEEEY!" could carry over of course, but if they ever go the voice acting route (which is inevitable) please Nintendo, create a new language that could carry over into every version of the game with ease.
 
Spire

Spire

III
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
15,079
Location
Texas
Whoa, that is exactly what the Ancient Cistern represents! I knew it had a story behind it. Such is the difference between growing up in Japan where such stories are part of the culture versus AMERICA. A good amount of Japanese players are probably familiar with this story and thus had an automatic appreciation for the dungeon.

In retrospect, it was probably my favorite dungeon in the game... tied with Sky Keep.
 
kupo15

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
Spire said:
The only voice acting I've ever wanted in Zelda is an artificial language. Hell, Zelda actually sang in the beginning of Skyward Sword and it sounded great—and it wasn't English. Expressions like, "HEEEEEEEY!" could carry over of course, but if they ever go the voice acting route (which is inevitable) please Nintendo, create a new language that could carry over into every version of the game with ease.
Click to expand...
Like the banjo kazooie voices?

I think there is no VA to keep people's imaginations alive. Everyone has their own interpretation of the characters that they like and I like it this way. I don't mind the text as long as I can skip it or skim through it which sadly you can't do in SS :(
 
Luigitoilet

Luigitoilet

shattering perfection
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
13,718
Location
secret room of wonder and despair
ughghh, Nintendo...I have 75 blessed butterflies in my inventory, is it REALLY necessary to go through the process of telling me what I caught, opening up my inventory and showing the +1 EVERY time I start up the game and catch another one? This is by far the most annoying thing about this game. How did they notice that problem in TP with the rupees, and fix it, but then just ignore it when the same exact thing happens with bugs/collectibles?
 
E

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
probably the single biggest flaw with SS is what I'm terming "micro pacing", as in, the game just has a lot of minor moment to moment occurrences that disrupt the flow of the game...most coming from slow unskippable text that appears repetitiously, as in when you collect something or for repeated actions(I would play the bamboo minigame a lot more if it didn't have the lengthy unskippable text after it). it's mostly the text but there's also a lot of mini cutscenes like the guardians awakening or the camera flying through a room and zooming in on something constantly

I find it really hard to believe that the playtesters put 600+ hours into the game without complaining about this, it's my single biggest problem with the game and I only did one playthrough so far
 
Luigitoilet

Luigitoilet

shattering perfection
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
13,718
Location
secret room of wonder and despair
Yep. It's inexcusable that there is no button to skip over the text like...pretty much every other Zelda game had. I can't really remember if WW and TP let you, but still.

It's weird, because they were obviously trying to make a faster and more streamlined experience as far as gameplay goes, but the design of the interface and text goes completely against that. When they did that with Rupees in TP I just figured it was some sort of glitch but apparently not. It almost feels like the dev team was split up and had separate, conflicting philosophies towards the game design.
 
theeboredone

theeboredone

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
12,398
Location
Houston, TX
Sadly, it's a fanboy contest for the most part. I'm not gonna vote simply because I haven't played Skyrim.

I did vote between Batman and Zelda.
 
ZIO

ZIO

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
10,884
Location
FREEDOM
I would vote Zelda solely because I am a Zelda fan, and not because I played one or the other (Played both, not complete with them though).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom