The Lucas Omelets Chatroom

[Irsic]

<_<

I still consistently get grab-release dtilt fsmash on Marth. >_>

But that's it. I play Marth quite a lot and I'd rather just play Fox against him.

 

[livan]

...a hi guys well thats interesting the strategy that you discuss , and well is better to know it before to go a tournament and many members are pretty strong , maybe can be avoid it with a smash attack , in the melee i use that for escape of a heavier hit and the b + -> , b + <- if i seriously hit it and knowing if the b jump don't save me

n_n

... a hola chicos bueno eso suena interesante , la estrategia que ustedes discuten , y bueno es mejor saberlo antes de ir a un torneo y bueno muchos miembros son muy fuertes , quisas se pueda evadir con un smash attack , en el melee yo use eso para escapar de impactos muy fuertes y l b + -> , b <- si yo era seriamente golpeado y conociendo que el brinco de b no me salvaria

 

[livan]

....a dije algo malo?
si es asi me disculpo

....a i say something bad
if im , i sorry

 

[prOAPC]

you didn't say anythig bad, it is just that the Lucas board was dead yesterday

 

[livan]

...o im late sorry

 

[lil cj]

Finally, i'm going to make a thread dedicated to fighting marth and i'll make it later on; maybe even 2morro.
Oats and Natch: you both made some intelligent comments and they made alot of sense (from what i read atleast; i dont want to read it all). when i make the Marth thread please contribute.

Theres alot of Marth discussion goin on lately
G&W should be our main concern....
with Marth u hav the option of PK fire spacing without havin to worry about anything
the battle might last forever but its better to be patient and win then to play wreckless and lose...Marth will get u if u mak a mistake so play it safe by taking your time.
With G&W u hav to constantly be careful...u cant really use PK fires or PK thunder edge guarding...u even hav to watch your recovery options.
So Toxicrow...u shouldnt jus make a thread all about fighting Marth
it should at least include G&W who is a bigger problem for Lucas
Actually u should include his worst 5 match ups

 

[ToxiCrow]

thats actually a great idea CJ. focusing on his top 5 is better than focusing on only 1.
MK
Marth
GW
Snake?
DK?

 

[lil cj]

thats actually a great idea CJ. focusing on his top 5 is better than focusing on only 1.
MK
Marth
GW
Snake?
DK?

Based on Blackbelt's Character Discussion
His top 5 worst match ups are:
1. G&W (20-80)
2. DK (25-75)
3. Marth (30-70)
4. MK (35-65)
5. (40-60) For this spot its a tie between Snake, Peach, Wolf, Yoshi, ROB, Lucario, Ness, and TL
Out of these I think Snake or TL is probably the hardest to beat.
Wat do u think Snake or Toon Link?

You even provide videos from the vid compendium
of each match up that shows ways to win.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'd say Toon Link, personally.

 

[ToxiCrow]

40 to 60 isn't that bad
i'd say that 45-55 + 40-60 is a slight disadvantage*; 30-70 is a definite disadvantage*. 40-60 is winnable.
but hey, my opinion doesnt over-ride a community's descision.

does it hav to be 5? cant it be 4?

*edited

edit 2: i play against a wolf all the time. camp him, and edgeguard his upB. run off the edge and immediatly grab b4 he does
dont worry about him reflecting PK Fire. by the time it comes back to you, it'll dissappear.
and remember, when he's off the stage, PKT is ur friend =]

 

[livan]

.... in spanish !! in spanish !!!!

n_n

.... en español !! en español !!!

 

[ToxiCrow]

APC: translate please. i cant speak smash in spanish; i'm not too good at explaining stats.

estamo hablamo de haciendo una pagina para peliando con metaknight, marth, dk y game and watch. esos son los chars que le das mas problemas a lucas.
APC te vas a decir que los numeros depictan

 

[lil cj]

I'd say Toon Link, personally.

I agree TL is much harder to beat than Snake after seeing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmyIF3oruJY

40 to 60 isn't that bad
i'd say that 45-55 + 40-60 is a slight disadvantage*; 30-70 is a definite disadvantage*. 40-60 is winnable.
but hey, my opinion doesnt over-ride a community's descision.

does it hav to be 5? cant it be 4?

*edited

edit 2: i play against a wolf all the time. camp him, and edgeguard his upB. run off the edge and immediatly grab b4 he does
dont worry about him reflecting PK Fire. by the time it comes back to you, it'll dissappear.
and remember, when he's off the stage, PKT is ur friend =]

Yeah your right...a thread of his top 4 worst match ups would be good too




Edit:
Ive been thinking maybe someone should make a Lucas video guide...
I dont think Lucas has one
It should contain all the things that are in Tyr's guide and more
It will make it easier for people to learn how to play Lucas if they can actually see it being performed
Alot of the other characters have a vid guide:


Link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0u3sUOShcI
Sonic:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMRTsGfy0c
Kirby:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDoApXDW1gM and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vUomoAvn84&feature=related
Pikachu:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md848biPmWA and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQ3cq1BDCs&feature=related
MK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS6VPvKveQQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC2pxBMNQw8&feature=related
Falco:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_fllhwlN1A
Diddy:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoHVgV0MU48 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwL4Z-sY0rg&feature=related
Snake:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Q_zjkiBnY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWS13QunVTU&feature=related
Marth:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgccU_h7PV0
Yoshi:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Bc7u55hgo&feature=related

Thats all the ones I could find...but yeah u see what I mean...lol


Lucas needs one too

 

[livan]

.....o lol ok , but mr game and watch have a bad point went he use the final smash and down of the stage he can't recover before the time out of the final smash
and thanks for explain me that ok
n_n

 

[ToxiCrow]

livan, nadie juegan con los final smashes =]
cuando estan jugando para dinero, nosotros no usamos final smash.
Cj: i'll help with some clips, but i dont want to be responsible for all of the video. i can upload some stuff, but i dont want to make the whole thing

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

I can make the video, but it might be a while since the guy that records all our crew's matches is lazy as hell

 

[ToxiCrow]

chaos; i'll help out. i hav a capture card, so i can record somethings or demonstrate some techniques like thunder sliding and koing with pkt2 and how to spike with b-air and that other good stuff.
i'll use Tyr's guide as a refrence.

and if the lazy guy from ur crew doesnt want to do it soon, i can probably start the video sometime after next week.

 

[lil cj]

Thanks ToxiCrow and ChaosTheory
If I had a way of recording I would help too

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

chaos; i'll help out. i hav a capture card, so i can record somethings or demonstrate some techniques like thunder sliding and koing with pkt2 and how to spike with b-air and that other good stuff.
i'll use Tyr's guide as a refrence.

and if the lazy guy from ur crew doesnt want to do it soon, i can probably start the video sometime after next week.

Ill have to ask him tommorow or tuesday, and I have my finals on Monday so im free right after that. Ill start making replays of all the AT's and such. Im sure we can figure out how to do this together. Also if you dont want to do the video editing I dont mind putting the actual video together....hopefully if the guy that has the recording stuff has the time I cn get th rest of the clips for my combo video all recorded =P

 

[Neon Ness]

Yesh. I say Toon Link is more difficult than Snake if only because of the craziness that is darktemplio, he goes to my school. Serious business, right thurr. In a battle of projectiles, the cartoon > the recovery kid, apparently. His zair having an actual hitbox doesn't help our case either... makes approaching near impossible... at least for me. Also, I've never had trouble with DK. It would be really helpful for me to watch a few videos of how Lucas should fight against one, for future reference, in case I've just been getting lucky all of this time.

Also, we went to IHOP this morning. Betcha can't guess what I ate fer breakfast.

 

[Kinzer]

Steak?

But no seriously, how's it goin' guys?

 

[Neon Ness]

Awesome.

Also, they did actually have a steak omelette. I was tempted, but... that would've been to much awesome in one meal.

I got my first jab lock with Sonic today. On my way to becoming pro?

Now, if I could just get a down tilt lock with Lucas...

 

[Noraa]

Ehh i came to grips that my lucas sucks.
Im about to give up.

 

[Neon Ness]

Ehh i came to grips that my lucas sucks.
Im about to give up.

Whoa whoa whoa. Where's this coming from?

I already said it, son. I'm the worst Lucas 'round heah. As long as there's at least one person below you... you don't "suck."

Don't give up, though. The more Lucases that get discouraged by a lack of support, the less we'll get recognized in the future... More isn't always better. Sometimes a few good tourney goers is all you need.

The Few. The Proud. The Marines Lucas.

 

[livan]

....a well don't do it you are good but in the world are many people and well they are good too so is a only to a clash of good players that only give the best efford and i know you too do the same so be proud of that and have a big smile for that and a happy feeling ok and admit the defeat after a mach is to say that you have a honor and fight a fair mach so............... .......be happy !!!!!!!

n_n

 

[FireKirby7]

So...... why is everyone trying to be the worst Lucas? XD
I thought we came here to discuss Lucas and get better, lol

 

[ToxiCrow]

haha yea i no..it's not like he's the worst in the game.
try making a few adjustments when u need to and keep going at it..if u need a break from lucas, take one then come back to using him. it's kinda like working out your brain: u need to rest b4 u get stronger

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Dude, I totally got discouraged at this last tourney. Got near last. Lost to a really good Meta-Knight and I didn't even go Lucas against the Marth I had to play next, I went R.O.B. and lost because I'm a sucky R.O.B. I'm thinking of just dropping Lucas and picking up ROB. Losing sucks so much. It's not a good feeling at all. Hurts the ego. Sure I can beat scrubs with Lucas, but they're scrubs. Match-up dependency is not cool. Well, it's ok for competition, but not cool for my omelette ego.

 

[ZMan]

****. Lucas players are starting to drop like flies. That's no bueno. Seanson, Galeon, Gofg and maybe some others fell of the face of the Earth. Techno & Natch still play but don't main Lucas anymore, and now Noraa and Oats might drop him.

We still have me, APC, Nsider, and uhhhhhh.

 

[FireKirby7]

****. Lucas players are starting to drop like flies. That's no bueno. Seanson, Galeon, Gofg and maybe some others fell of the face of the Earth. Techno & Natch still play but don't main Lucas anymore, and now Noraa and Oats might drop him.

We still have me, APC, Nsider, and uhhhhhh.

Aww dont be so negative. About 40 people join SWF everyday, maybe one of those 40 is a great Lucas main ready to prove him/herself

Believe me, I would rep Lucas if there were any tournies around Oklahoma.........

 

[Neon Ness]

****. Lucas players are starting to drop like flies. That's no bueno. Seanson, Galeon, Gofg and maybe some others fell of the face of the Earth. Techno & Natch still play but don't main Lucas anymore, and now Noraa and Oats might drop him.

We still have me, APC, Nsider, and uhhhhhh.

Yeah, seriously, what the heck. I might have to actually start training and going to tournaments now, if it's gonna be like this.

Also, you guys can't leave without seeing PK Bay Bay.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

****. Lucas players are starting to drop like flies. That's no bueno. Seanson, Galeon, Gofg and maybe some others fell of the face of the Earth. Techno & Natch still play but don't main Lucas anymore, and now Noraa and Oats might drop him.

We still have me, APC, Nsider, and uhhhhhh.

who cares about them eh? and I'm sorry but you shouldnt say stuff like "we still have me, APC, nsider" and **** like that. Its you having a **** cocky attitude and personally it annoys the hell out of me when people say **** like this. Really nobody cares who the "best" lucas is. We shouldnt be asking that since we really dont have any lucas players that do well in BIG tournaments constantly.

 

[Neon Ness]

who cares about them eh? and I'm sorry but you shouldnt say stuff like "we still have me, APC, nsider" and **** like that. Its you having a **** cocky attitude and personally it annoys the hell out of me when people say **** like this. Really nobody cares who the "best" lucas is. We shouldnt be asking that since we really dont have any lucas players that do well in BIG tournaments constantly.

ChaosTheory's on point today!

He's right, though. Sometimes in character communities we get so caught up in who the top 10 of X character are that we forget the community aspect. Aren't we all working towards presenting our case? That Lucas is tourney viable?

Let's work on this. Right here. Right now.

Let's look at why an opponnet like Game and Watch is difficult, just to start off. Now, don't everyone start throwing out a million advantages he has over us at once.

One. Let's look at one at a time and brainstorm about how to overcome it.

First. The air game. Specifically, let's look at back air. Now, let's reasonably discuss why it's so tough for us.

 

[livan]

...maybe ....just need to trust.... more in lucas and battle..... with all you can bring .....
n_n

 

[prOAPC]

his bair has 6 hits, and is like, 5 first, a brief pause and then the 6th hit, this is the hit that makes shield grab difficult, and Lucas' grab sux, and his best option out of shield are his jabs, but a good G&W will probably space himself, and the jab won't reach him

 

[Neon Ness]

Does the back air eat through shields? If so, then that really is a problem, because that means it can't be sidestepped or shielded...

Solution? Perfect shield the first 5 hits, then sidestep the 6th.

OK, and you said a good G&W will space himself? Do you mean he'll do a retreating back air? If so, then let's figure which attacks have the most range that would be useful here.

PK Fire's out because of the Bucket, of course. Would forward tilt have enough range to hit a retreating back air G&W? It comes out fast, too, in order to punish a blocked attack.

Although, maybe we could work with this PK Fire thing a little. If we use it once against retreating bair, they'll start to expect it, right? That means each sequential RBair will be followed with a Bucket. If we mindgame 'em into using the Bucket like this, that opens up an opportunity for a grab since rope snake has such a long reach. And if he's Bucketing, he can't sidestep the rope snake.

Problem is afterwards. He'll start getting unpredictable with his bair followups, which means we'll have to be upredictable with our bair follow ups, as well. Hmm.

Anyone else got any solutions?

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Ehh i came to grips that my lucas sucks.
Im about to give up.

yeah lately your tourney results have been a little... eh

Whoa whoa whoa. Where's this coming from?

The Few. The Proud. The Marines Lucas.

He came in like 68/72 at CH 4.5 idk the brackets but just the results are pretty bad.


LMFAO i would so sig that if i knew how lol

Dude, I totally got discouraged at this last tourney. Got near last. Lost to a really good Meta-Knight and I didn't even go Lucas against the Marth I had to play next, I went R.O.B. and lost because I'm a sucky R.O.B. I'm thinking of just dropping Lucas and picking up ROB. Losing sucks so much. It's not a good feeling at all. Hurts the ego. Sure I can beat scrubs with Lucas, but they're scrubs. Match-up dependency is not cool. Well, it's ok for competition, but not cool for my omelette ego.

hmmm...
you got discouraged because you lost to some of our hardet matchups?
honestly some people need to realize that lucas is a suck a** character. it's hard as s*** to win with him against high/top teir chars, which are also the chars we'll see the most. if you want to win, pick up a new char, marth/snake/R.O.B/MK/G&W/D3 all do well competitively. basically any char high tier and above. if you want to play with a achar you like. play lucas. get better. win more.

****. Lucas players are starting to drop like flies. That's no bueno. Seanson, Galeon, Gofg and maybe some others fell of the face of the Earth. Techno & Natch still play but don't main Lucas anymore, and now Noraa and Oats might drop him.

We still have me, APC, Nsider, and uhhhhhh.

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

who cares about them eh? and I'm sorry but you shouldnt say stuff like "we still have me, APC, nsider" and **** like that. Its you having a **** cocky attitude and personally it annoys the hell out of me when people say **** like this. Really nobody cares who the "best" lucas is. We shouldnt be asking that since we really dont have any lucas players that do well in BIG tournaments constantly.

ya nobody plays lucas. it's sad. usually there is somebody that does ok with a low tier char in tourneys (simna: ness, Taj: mewtwo) but like... we have nobody.

ChaosTheory's on point today!

He's right, though. Sometimes in character communities we get so caught up in who the top 10 of X character are that we forget the community aspect. Aren't we all working towards presenting our case? That Lucas is tourney viable?

Let's work on this. Right here. Right now.

Let's look at why an opponnet like Game and Watch is difficult, just to start off. Now, don't everyone start throwing out a million advantages he has over us at once.

One. Let's look at one at a time and brainstorm about how to overcome it.

First. The air game. Specifically, let's look at back air. Now, let's reasonably discuss why it's so tough for us.

LOL lucas is not tourney viable, but i will help.
it's actually quite easy to predict a bair. if he's facing backwards while coming towards you just predict it. retreating pk fire takes care of it. if you can't predict it just shield the whole thing. if it was a FH bair then it will not have any lag. if it's a SH bair then it will have enough to punish with ftilt since it has more hange than a jab. you could also SHAD behind them if you see them approach with it. it's not that hard to deal with. nair is worse.



EDIT @ neon ness: bair is not a fast move. if he bairs we deff have enough time to pk fire. it's not like he can stop bair halfway through and then bucket.

 

[Noraa]

you ftilt out of the sheild for his bair
you ff nair to utilt for dair

you do reteating fairs or bairs this whole match to space.

you will never be agressive in this match up

 

[Neon Ness]

you ftilt out of the sheild for his bair
you ff nair to utilt for dair

you do reteating fairs or bairs this whole match to space.

you will never be agressive in this match up

I was thinking that, too... which is annoying, because I feel like if I can't be aggressive at all, then my opponent pretty much controls the match as they see fit. Then again, against G&W, that really is the case.

And Pink Fresh is right, we do need to remember from time to time that we don't main the best character. He has flaws. But all we can do is try our best and see what comes of it.

So! Againts the turtle? We have:

1. Avoid getting shieldstabbed. Lucas' forward tilt is fast enough and has enough range in order to punish Mr. Game & Watch out of a shield.

2. In the off chance that you can predict it, punish with a retreating PK Fire. He can't cancel the attack halfway through or anything, and the flame pillar will cause damage. In the case of an unpredictable reverse aerial rush turtle, punish with the first solution.

3. Perfect shield every hit and punsih with PK Starstorm.

Overall, stay defensive and on the lookout for a backwards walking G&W on land. I don't think he has a way to reverse the direction he's facing in midair other than the Bucket, and by that time he'll probably already have hit the ground. Making it a predictable bair startup tactic. Let's try to keep this stuff in mind in tournament settings.

Next. I believe Pink Fresh said "nair is worse".

Why is it worse? Le's brainstorm.

 

[prOAPC]

pink fresh said: "it's actually quite easy to predict a bair. if he's facing backwards while coming towards you just predict it."
remember that they can easily RAR, and G&W's 2D form makes him hard to tell if his facing backwards or not
G&W has a new tech, bucklet breaking, or whatever is called, it makes him stop all knockback, but it doesn't work if the bucklet is filled up, so i don't know how G&W's mains will react, absorbing all your pk fires, but losing the ability to survive at high % , they can only absorb 2 pk fires, or using the oil as soon they can or just not using the bucklet?

nair could be bad because G&W grab is a good setup for a dsmash or a tech chase