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The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms
- Thread starter Fox Is Openly Deceptive
- Start date
Throw the Bumerang and make an Fsmash!
So, something is weird, maybe it was talked out here but i´m not sure.
Sometimes it happend, that i throw the Bumerang to the enemy, he dodge and i hit him with Fsmash hits, the first hit regulary the second hit was strange. Bumerangs comes back and i hitted with the second hit of F-Smash
normally the opponent freezed for a moment, but when you do this the opponent flies without freeze animation away. Maybe the Knockback is stronger. I´m not sure. Did someone that too?
So, something is weird, maybe it was talked out here but i´m not sure.
Sometimes it happend, that i throw the Bumerang to the enemy, he dodge and i hit him with Fsmash hits, the first hit regulary the second hit was strange. Bumerangs comes back and i hitted with the second hit of F-Smash
normally the opponent freezed for a moment, but when you do this the opponent flies without freeze animation away. Maybe the Knockback is stronger. I´m not sure. Did someone that too?
Chsal
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 11, 2010
- Messages
- 214
I'm guessing the boomerang interrupted the hitlag.
As in,
Second hit of Fsmash hits
Hitlag - Interrupted by returning rang.
In theory, the knockback is less, because the boomerang hits them in the opposite direction.
Ideally, you want the boomerang to hit between the first and second hit of Fsmash, because the second hit tends to miss a lot... Oh and also because that extra X% dealt by the rang will increase the knockback of Fsmash by a bit. lol.
As in,
Second hit of Fsmash hits
Hitlag - Interrupted by returning rang.
In theory, the knockback is less, because the boomerang hits them in the opposite direction.
Ideally, you want the boomerang to hit between the first and second hit of Fsmash, because the second hit tends to miss a lot... Oh and also because that extra X% dealt by the rang will increase the knockback of Fsmash by a bit. lol.
That's pretty cool I spose. I'll mess around with it later and if I feel it could be useful I'll write it up. Come to think of it, I should probably write something on the platform cancel as well (I'll just chuck it in general somewhere).
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
It can also be used to catch a nade against snake. Any item really. Hi FIOD.
Hey man. I never got around to testing it and I'm back at college now. I did think about it a bit though, and I'm sorry to say it, but I'm a little skeptical about it's uses and the options available to you compared to simply Z catching for example. As you said, it would obviously be able to be done with any item, and I get the feeling that practically speaking, it would be more useful used with other items simply because of having to put the bomb there in the first place. On the plus side, one good thing for sure would be catching the item and instantly being able to shield, it's not hard to think of situations where this would be the best option. So I'm not giving up on it yet, especially before I actually mess around with it.
On a related note, how does everyone platform cancel? I'm not asking this as a noob, I'm asking this because I've heard there are many ways to platform cancel. Personally, I just hold down and then let it go as I'm jumping through the platform, but that's just me.
Edit: Note to self, write up something on Toon's true pivot, it's amazing.
On a related note, how does everyone platform cancel? I'm not asking this as a noob, I'm asking this because I've heard there are many ways to platform cancel. Personally, I just hold down and then let it go as I'm jumping through the platform, but that's just me.
Edit: Note to self, write up something on Toon's true pivot, it's amazing.
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
I just dair to platform cancel. Its the easiest for me. And yeah, it might not be useful at all. Maybe against snake/ diddy on smashville.
So I found something I didn't know about F-smash which is potentialy quite useful.
After playing a Toon ditto, a matchup I hate for various reasons, I decided to develop the habit of avoiding the second hit of F-smash already. Pretty simple realy, but I'd never gotten around to it. After successfully avoiding a few on reaction by holding up and double jumping, I got hit out of no where even though I did everything right. To save you the rest of the story, the first hit of F-smash has a hitbubble that hits people further out and not very high off the ground at all. It is usualy just outprioritised by other hitbubbles. In order to hit with it, you need to verse a character who is thin down low (Marth, Falco, Toon, many more untested but you can probably guess who it would work on) and you need to be in them when you F-smash. You can't just get as close as possible and then F-smash (so charging is out), you need to walk into them a bit and then F-smash. When you get it, they'll be sent forwards very low or if you were too far foward they'll be hit behind you in the same way.
The point of this whole thing is, this particular way of using F-smash is much harder to avoid and probably impossible to avoid by jumping out. It's still too early to make any big claims for sure so take this post with a grain of salt. Either way, check it out and if possible test a few things for yourself and let me know what you think. Maybe you already knew about it, which is why I opened with "I found something I didn't know about", so it's not necessarily new and I don't expect it to be what with how long the game has been out for. I still thought it was worth bringing up though, so yeah.
After playing a Toon ditto, a matchup I hate for various reasons, I decided to develop the habit of avoiding the second hit of F-smash already. Pretty simple realy, but I'd never gotten around to it. After successfully avoiding a few on reaction by holding up and double jumping, I got hit out of no where even though I did everything right. To save you the rest of the story, the first hit of F-smash has a hitbubble that hits people further out and not very high off the ground at all. It is usualy just outprioritised by other hitbubbles. In order to hit with it, you need to verse a character who is thin down low (Marth, Falco, Toon, many more untested but you can probably guess who it would work on) and you need to be in them when you F-smash. You can't just get as close as possible and then F-smash (so charging is out), you need to walk into them a bit and then F-smash. When you get it, they'll be sent forwards very low or if you were too far foward they'll be hit behind you in the same way.
The point of this whole thing is, this particular way of using F-smash is much harder to avoid and probably impossible to avoid by jumping out. It's still too early to make any big claims for sure so take this post with a grain of salt. Either way, check it out and if possible test a few things for yourself and let me know what you think. Maybe you already knew about it, which is why I opened with "I found something I didn't know about", so it's not necessarily new and I don't expect it to be what with how long the game has been out for. I still thought it was worth bringing up though, so yeah.
Chsal
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 11, 2010
- Messages
- 214
So... Theres a hitbox on Fsmash1 that sends opponents away from you?
Where is it? The paragraph is pretty confusing.
Anyway it seems interesting. Though I'd want to know what benefits a Fsmash1 would have over an Usmash. (Eg, does it have more KB?)
Where is it? The paragraph is pretty confusing.
Anyway it seems interesting. Though I'd want to know what benefits a Fsmash1 would have over an Usmash. (Eg, does it have more KB?)
...
Ok, so if you are so close to some opponents, opponents who's hurtbox is small enough (i.e. they are thin for example), so close that you actually have to walk into them slightly, then F-smash1 will hit them forwards setting up for the second hit, only they won't be hit very high at all so double jumping to avoid the second hit becomes useless. Normally the first hit sort of pops them up, you know, but this way it has much less.... pop, if any.
...
Benefits?
Way better chance of connecting with second hit of F-smash, which means better kill power and all around great move to connect with.
Trust me, if you try it out, you'll see the difference.
Ok, so if you are so close to some opponents, opponents who's hurtbox is small enough (i.e. they are thin for example), so close that you actually have to walk into them slightly, then F-smash1 will hit them forwards setting up for the second hit, only they won't be hit very high at all so double jumping to avoid the second hit becomes useless. Normally the first hit sort of pops them up, you know, but this way it has much less.... pop, if any.
...
Benefits?
Way better chance of connecting with second hit of F-smash, which means better kill power and all around great move to connect with.
Trust me, if you try it out, you'll see the difference.
G-Dub
Smash Journeyman
I think most characters could DI down, and just shield.... but idk, this could use some testing.
That is probably the case, but who's going to do that if normally it wouldn't avoid it? Example, you hit a Toon with it, he reacts to it correctly and tries to DI up and double jump out, it doesn't work.
This whole thing is incredibly situation though, simply because it would require really poor spacing from both of you in order to connect with this hitbox.
Testing should be done anyway, for all I know, the second hit would come out too fast if timed perfectly. It's a different hitbox, other than having a different tradgectory, what else is different? I don't know yet.
This whole thing is incredibly situation though, simply because it would require really poor spacing from both of you in order to connect with this hitbox.
Testing should be done anyway, for all I know, the second hit would come out too fast if timed perfectly. It's a different hitbox, other than having a different tradgectory, what else is different? I don't know yet.
.....
Spamming? In this thread?
See that line? Don't cross it XD.
Go to the general discussion or something. Maybe you just caught me on a bad day. >_>
Spamming? In this thread?
See that line? Don't cross it XD.
Go to the general discussion or something. Maybe you just caught me on a bad day. >_>
G-Dub
Smash Journeyman
LOL.....bro, he's got a **** ton of ATs that HAVE to be used.
Go into the first page of this, and the TL guide.
Yea I mean wtf is wrong with Tink.... Do I have to learn all of that its like Freaking over the limit!
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
Well if you plan on being a good Toon Link main, going though all of them is recommended, althought there are only a few that you really have to learn to get Tink moving. For example, quickdraws, double arrows, iBombs, JC Throws, Bomb Drops, etc.
If I'm not mistaken, Fox has the whole Usefulness system going, so look for the ATs that are high on the scale.
If I'm not mistaken, Fox has the whole Usefulness system going, so look for the ATs that are high on the scale.
G-Dub
Smash Journeyman
Spamming is all you know Abel...
Well this is supposed to be a brainstorming thread, so posting this info here seems fitting.
Today I set out to discover something, which is something I haven't done in a while as I haven't had the time. Many different ideas came and went during my breaks, until one of them stood out in my mind which I simply had to test when I got home.
I think I've found a way to set up an arrow lock. One which isn't reliant on tripping or missed techs or anything unforced (it's probably reliant on bad/no SDI, but like, what isn't).
In times past I tried things like what Link does to set up his Jab lock (SH Bomb throw down to footstool to Nair to fast fall the Nair to Jab), but Toon was simply too floaty to SH Bomb throw down to footstool to fast fall quickdraw. (No, none of his aerials will do the same job as Link's Nair.) And then I thought, if only there was a way to footstool them twice because consecutive footstools go half as high which means Toon will be closer to the ground which means we could get that fast fall quickdraw arrow lock.
It works, I found a few ways.
I should quickly mention that when I say footstool, I mean the SH version of footstool not the Full hop one.
Ok, so there's the initial thought of, "well couldn't you just run up, footstool them, throw the bomb down then footstool them again and fast fall quickdraw?" and while this does work in a sense, it would require the opponent to do absolutely nothing while getting footstooled and then doing nothing until they get footstooled again because there's just not enough 'stun' on the normal grounded footstool, so you have to throw the bomb straight away which means that they then have enough time to do anything before the second footstool. So it works, but only on a corpse. (No pun intended Corpse)
So here are some other suggestions that work much better against real people.
Pull out a Bomb, SH, Zair close with a Bomb, Dash Jump, footstool them when they are still in mid air, wait a tiny bit, throw the bomb down, (fast fall?), footstool, fast fall quickdraw. Yay it worked! And the middle part between the footstools is much more likely to be unavoidable if timed right. I know, I know, "but Zair to footstool isn't guaranteed", it's not, but at least it's easier to work into a game than the next example.
Throw boomerang, Pull Bomb, returning boomerang hits, footstool, and the rest is the same. This one's much more guaranteed but it's soo situational. Or maybe you like it... Alright, I have one more for now.
Bomb Pull, iZAC Bair to footstool and the rest is the same. Pretty hard and only works on lower percents. There's always Z-dropping bombs and instantly picking them up with SH Bairs instead of the iZAC, but whatever.
I just thought I'd get the idea out there.
If there's any interest, I may test it with some help and find out for sure just how unavoidable or otherwise the middle part is. I'm not worried about the end part; I know for sure that the second footstool used close to the ground does set up an unavoidable fast fall quickdraw arrow lock. It's getting the second footstool close to the ground that's the hard part to figure out a way to guarantee.
Thoughts? Activity of any kind? Questions? There must be some questions.
Today I set out to discover something, which is something I haven't done in a while as I haven't had the time. Many different ideas came and went during my breaks, until one of them stood out in my mind which I simply had to test when I got home.
I think I've found a way to set up an arrow lock. One which isn't reliant on tripping or missed techs or anything unforced (it's probably reliant on bad/no SDI, but like, what isn't).
In times past I tried things like what Link does to set up his Jab lock (SH Bomb throw down to footstool to Nair to fast fall the Nair to Jab), but Toon was simply too floaty to SH Bomb throw down to footstool to fast fall quickdraw. (No, none of his aerials will do the same job as Link's Nair.) And then I thought, if only there was a way to footstool them twice because consecutive footstools go half as high which means Toon will be closer to the ground which means we could get that fast fall quickdraw arrow lock.
It works, I found a few ways.
I should quickly mention that when I say footstool, I mean the SH version of footstool not the Full hop one.
Ok, so there's the initial thought of, "well couldn't you just run up, footstool them, throw the bomb down then footstool them again and fast fall quickdraw?" and while this does work in a sense, it would require the opponent to do absolutely nothing while getting footstooled and then doing nothing until they get footstooled again because there's just not enough 'stun' on the normal grounded footstool, so you have to throw the bomb straight away which means that they then have enough time to do anything before the second footstool. So it works, but only on a corpse. (No pun intended Corpse)
So here are some other suggestions that work much better against real people.
Pull out a Bomb, SH, Zair close with a Bomb, Dash Jump, footstool them when they are still in mid air, wait a tiny bit, throw the bomb down, (fast fall?), footstool, fast fall quickdraw. Yay it worked! And the middle part between the footstools is much more likely to be unavoidable if timed right. I know, I know, "but Zair to footstool isn't guaranteed", it's not, but at least it's easier to work into a game than the next example.
Throw boomerang, Pull Bomb, returning boomerang hits, footstool, and the rest is the same. This one's much more guaranteed but it's soo situational. Or maybe you like it... Alright, I have one more for now.
Bomb Pull, iZAC Bair to footstool and the rest is the same. Pretty hard and only works on lower percents. There's always Z-dropping bombs and instantly picking them up with SH Bairs instead of the iZAC, but whatever.
I just thought I'd get the idea out there.
If there's any interest, I may test it with some help and find out for sure just how unavoidable or otherwise the middle part is. I'm not worried about the end part; I know for sure that the second footstool used close to the ground does set up an unavoidable fast fall quickdraw arrow lock. It's getting the second footstool close to the ground that's the hard part to figure out a way to guarantee.
Thoughts? Activity of any kind? Questions? There must be some questions.
Check this out at 2 minutes in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTwGhW6NIIw Shows arrow locking.
If I did any testing on it I'd check every character at some point of course, but if someone else did that it'd help.
(It'd also be a first XD)
If I did any testing on it I'd check every character at some point of course, but if someone else did that it'd help.
(It'd also be a first XD)
The Zedi Wonder
Smash Rookie
I can't seem to do Toon Links bomb spike, not sure if it actually is possible cause I haven't seen a video of someone doing it with Toon Link.
Any help or explanation of this?
Any help or explanation of this?
The description in the OP is fairly straight forward, so I'm not sure what part is being misunderstood. Perhaps when you were trying to re-create it the opponent's percentage wasn't high enough.
As for a vid, we did have one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtwYOoENeaU but as you will see, it doesn't work anymore along with all of Sasuke's vids because he has deleted his youtube account.... >_>
apparently.
I'm sure someone will be able to show you it in one of their vids of actual games ('looks at you guys'). It's not too rare, just very fortunate or opportunistic, so I'm surprised you haven't seen it yet.
Edit: Wait, I found an example. He does it at 49 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCRQK-f478
As for a vid, we did have one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtwYOoENeaU but as you will see, it doesn't work anymore along with all of Sasuke's vids because he has deleted his youtube account.... >_>
apparently.
I'm sure someone will be able to show you it in one of their vids of actual games ('looks at you guys'). It's not too rare, just very fortunate or opportunistic, so I'm surprised you haven't seen it yet.
Edit: Wait, I found an example. He does it at 49 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCRQK-f478
The Zedi Wonder
Smash Rookie
My opponents damage was pretty high I just didn't seem to be able to get my bomb to deal damage below the stage (yes I was trying it at the edge of the stage)
Check out my edit in the last post. That's what it looks like.
The Zedi Wonder
Smash Rookie
Ok, I see it now, guess it just takes really good timing to hit it
I'm not one to make new threads and this post is no different. I thought I'd dispel a few myths about the aerial footstool to Dair (i.e. footstooling an opponent who is in the air and comboing the stun from the footstool into a Dair spike). It's usually unsure whether it's guaranteed or not, but for the most part it's seen as impossible to ensure the Dair hits.
The only way to avoid the Dair is with DI/drifting, but there are actually many factors that go into whether or not DIing will avoid the Dair. Instead of explaining why in a certain situation the Dair hits or not, I'll just give you the list of all characters DIing in all situations and tell you whether they avoid the Dair or if it connects and spikes. I know I've personally wanted to know this info for a while now. I think you'll be surprised with some of the results. Skip the list to get the good parts in a more accessible way or browse through at your own leisure.
Key:
S = both characters are facing the same direction (both left or both right). So Toon and the opposing character are facing the same way.
O = facing the opposite direction from each other (so either they are looking at each other or have their backs to each other).
F = the opponent tried to DI the footstool forwards. This is forwards from their point of view, not Toon's.
B = the opponent tried to DI backwards.
y = yes, the Dair Spike connects and is guaranteed under the stated conditions.
n = no, it didn't connect and they were able to avoid you.
Note: Toon facing left or right makes no difference because of the wording used; so don't think of things in terms of left and right, rather think of it in terms of 'in relation to each other' which will adjust accordingly no matter which way you face. The above covers everything in every situation (don't be smart... you know what I mean XD). Oh and the list is so widely spaced so that it's easier to compare characters and just easier to read over all.
Mario:
SFy, SBn, OFn, OBy.
Luigi:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Peach:
SFn, SBn, OFn, OBy.
Bowser:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
DK
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
Diddy:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Yoshi:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Wario:
SFn, SBn, OFn, OBn.
Link:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Zelda:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
Sheik:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ganon:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Toon:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Samus:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
ZSS:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Pit:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
IC's:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
ROB:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Kirby:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Meta Knight:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
D3:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Olimar:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
Fox:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Falco:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Wolf:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
C. Falcon:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Pikachu:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBy.
Squirtle:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ivysaur:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Charizard:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Lucario:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Jiggz:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Marth:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ike:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ness:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Lucas:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
GnW:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Snake:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Sonic:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
So what does all this tell us and how can knowing this stuff help?
Every character with one 'n' in both the O's and the S's are all characters where it is never safe to go for the spike because they will always have a way of avoiding it. So from now on, especially if off stage, don't try to footstool to spike Mario, Peach, DK, Diddy, Wario, Zelda, Sheik, Toon, Samus, ZSS, Pit, IC's, Kirby, Olimar, Fox, Falco, Wolf, C. Falcon, Squirtle, Charizard, Jiggz, Marth, Ness, Lucas, GnW and Sonic. Even if it is quite possible to connect with these characters, it is never guaranteed.
Then there are the characters that have all y's. They can never avoid the footstool to Dair, no matter what they do (assuming you get the footstool). These poor characters are Luigi, Yoshi, Ganon, ROB, Meta Knight, Ivysaur and Snake.
Finally, the bit I found quite interesting, there are the characters that have two y's in either the S's or the O's but have at least one 'n' in the other. These are characters where we can actually choose to guarantee the spike depending on which direction we decide to face. I'll list these characters in full again because it is important to note which way you need to be facing in relation to which way they are facing to guarantee the spike.
Bowser:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Link:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
D3:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Pikachu:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBy.
Lucario:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ike:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Questions? Comments?
The only way to avoid the Dair is with DI/drifting, but there are actually many factors that go into whether or not DIing will avoid the Dair. Instead of explaining why in a certain situation the Dair hits or not, I'll just give you the list of all characters DIing in all situations and tell you whether they avoid the Dair or if it connects and spikes. I know I've personally wanted to know this info for a while now. I think you'll be surprised with some of the results. Skip the list to get the good parts in a more accessible way or browse through at your own leisure.
Key:
S = both characters are facing the same direction (both left or both right). So Toon and the opposing character are facing the same way.
O = facing the opposite direction from each other (so either they are looking at each other or have their backs to each other).
F = the opponent tried to DI the footstool forwards. This is forwards from their point of view, not Toon's.
B = the opponent tried to DI backwards.
y = yes, the Dair Spike connects and is guaranteed under the stated conditions.
n = no, it didn't connect and they were able to avoid you.
Note: Toon facing left or right makes no difference because of the wording used; so don't think of things in terms of left and right, rather think of it in terms of 'in relation to each other' which will adjust accordingly no matter which way you face. The above covers everything in every situation (don't be smart... you know what I mean XD). Oh and the list is so widely spaced so that it's easier to compare characters and just easier to read over all.
Mario:
SFy, SBn, OFn, OBy.
Luigi:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Peach:
SFn, SBn, OFn, OBy.
Bowser:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
DK
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
Diddy:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Yoshi:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Wario:
SFn, SBn, OFn, OBn.
Link:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Zelda:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
Sheik:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ganon:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Toon:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Samus:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
ZSS:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Pit:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
IC's:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
ROB:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Kirby:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Meta Knight:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
D3:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Olimar:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBn.
Fox:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Falco:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Wolf:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
C. Falcon:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Pikachu:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBy.
Squirtle:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ivysaur:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Charizard:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Lucario:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Jiggz:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Marth:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ike:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ness:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Lucas:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
GnW:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Snake:
SFy, SBy, OFy, OBy.
Sonic:
SFn, SBy, OFn, OBy.
So what does all this tell us and how can knowing this stuff help?
Every character with one 'n' in both the O's and the S's are all characters where it is never safe to go for the spike because they will always have a way of avoiding it. So from now on, especially if off stage, don't try to footstool to spike Mario, Peach, DK, Diddy, Wario, Zelda, Sheik, Toon, Samus, ZSS, Pit, IC's, Kirby, Olimar, Fox, Falco, Wolf, C. Falcon, Squirtle, Charizard, Jiggz, Marth, Ness, Lucas, GnW and Sonic. Even if it is quite possible to connect with these characters, it is never guaranteed.
Then there are the characters that have all y's. They can never avoid the footstool to Dair, no matter what they do (assuming you get the footstool). These poor characters are Luigi, Yoshi, Ganon, ROB, Meta Knight, Ivysaur and Snake.
Finally, the bit I found quite interesting, there are the characters that have two y's in either the S's or the O's but have at least one 'n' in the other. These are characters where we can actually choose to guarantee the spike depending on which direction we decide to face. I'll list these characters in full again because it is important to note which way you need to be facing in relation to which way they are facing to guarantee the spike.
Bowser:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Link:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
D3:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Pikachu:
SFy, SBn, OFy, OBy.
Lucario:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Ike:
SFy, SBy, OFn, OBy.
Questions? Comments?
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
This is awesome, haha.
It's kinda hard for me to read all this without visuals, but I'll get into that soon enough.
You mind reposting this here, since it's relevant discussion? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=304110
It's kinda hard for me to read all this without visuals, but I'll get into that soon enough.
You mind reposting this here, since it's relevant discussion? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=304110
So, for the following characters:
Luigi
Yoshi
Ganon
ROB
Meta Knight
Ivysaur
Snake
Bowser
Link
D3
Lucario
Ike
At low percents, we of course have bair to footstool. If we can do this near a ledge we should have a guaranteed bair -> footstool -> offstage dair on all of those characters, right?
Too bad Pikachu has to be facing the opposite direction or it would work on him too.
Luigi
Yoshi
Ganon
ROB
Meta Knight
Ivysaur
Snake
Bowser
Link
D3
Lucario
Ike
At low percents, we of course have bair to footstool. If we can do this near a ledge we should have a guaranteed bair -> footstool -> offstage dair on all of those characters, right?
Too bad Pikachu has to be facing the opposite direction or it would work on him too.
KT Kasrani
Smash Champion
idk how to bair to footstool. i suk at tech skill
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
all they have to do is shield
Hi Guys, i found something new about TL.
I tested it very often and it works very good.
No one was excepting this but
A true Combo even on high % is ( on kill % its very hard - impossible to follow up a Zair) Its important, that you are near on your opponent by performing it!
Zair to FootStool Dair
How to Perform: Run at you're opponent, SH Zair, Dash to Footstool Dair.
Effect: Toon will Zair his opponent, Dash for half a second, SH to your opponent mash JUMP (you willl Footstool him), then press Dair. It will work an many chars.
Note: The Zair must hit near on your opponent to follow with Footstool Dair. This is great move to pull of because it's pretty much guaranteed. When I say Zair I obviously mean Zair cancelled on the ground.
It works because the Knockback from Zair is very low, but you opponent is in his landing animation who you can footstool him. But maybe it will even work on when your opponent is flying away.
Stages: All
It works on Meta-Knight very well!!!
Maybe i will make a video about it. If someone want to see it!
I tested it very often and it works very good.
No one was excepting this but
A true Combo even on high % is ( on kill % its very hard - impossible to follow up a Zair) Its important, that you are near on your opponent by performing it!
Zair to FootStool Dair
How to Perform: Run at you're opponent, SH Zair, Dash to Footstool Dair.
Effect: Toon will Zair his opponent, Dash for half a second, SH to your opponent mash JUMP (you willl Footstool him), then press Dair. It will work an many chars.
Note: The Zair must hit near on your opponent to follow with Footstool Dair. This is great move to pull of because it's pretty much guaranteed. When I say Zair I obviously mean Zair cancelled on the ground.
It works because the Knockback from Zair is very low, but you opponent is in his landing animation who you can footstool him. But maybe it will even work on when your opponent is flying away.
Stages: All
It works on Meta-Knight very well!!!
Maybe i will make a video about it. If someone want to see it!