The New and Hopefully improved Captain Falcon matchup thread! Discussing : MmmmK

[Tenki]

- Yoshi/Sonic were the last characters being discussed in the previous thread, so it just continued on here. But you're right, you guys should discuss 'incorrect' matchups, or matchups with evolved metagames (ex: raichu)

- Salem vs Malcolm 20$ money match + videos plz

I feel like being lulzy, since it's my 6000th post.

*Reads thread*

Okay, Falcon huh?

Easy as pie, unless you simply don't know what you're doing.
I'll edit this post later for each of Sonic's moves which counters each of Falcons random situations.

Stage being used for this matchup, or stage I say you should use against ALWAYS:
Final Destination

U-air, alot of it, it will be needed alot in this matchup cause Falcon's like jumping after down-B, you may get damaged but you know you'll get your hit in, U-air is very VERY helpful here.

Down-B, Obviously this will be needed to clash with Falcoln's down-B, you'll possibly want to either jab or grab after the clash though cause most people don't react fast enough after the clash, though I do an aerial down-B because it seemingly counters his all his dashes either way, and theres no clashes so free damage.

No N-air, banned, you can't use this much any more exept after a down throw cause Falcon's dashes just simply hits you anyway, from what i've seen...

U-tilt/U-smash invincibility frames, It pretty much stops Falcon from doing any short hopped moves, timing is required.

Jab clashes with one of his dashes, its nice though I can't remember which one.

One more stupid thing... if Falcon ever tries to Up-b on-stage or miss and get a laggy D-air trying to mind game you, try to space around it and do a charged F-smash on Falcon's a**, timing is freaking hard but at least you know you can get it off.

Eh... Falcon can't do much depending on what you're doing, you're able to aproach with U-air here though he can just use his U-air to knock you out of yours though he'll obviously have to geuss that and you no longer have to be a defensive punishing Falcon which means time to ****, For Great Justice.

65-35 Sonic's Advantage, I know what i'm talking about... he's not a threat, get over it.. i've played some hardcore Falcons... its hard every now and then but Falcon obviously does not have the advantage.

Now if you were fighting two Falcons...

you'll get grab release Falcon Punched

All of these have the same correctness and relevance to this matchup as Salem's post.

Edit2:

One more thing,

a hardcore Sonic fanboy is not necessarily a hardcore awesome Sonic player in Brawl.

 

[Zeallyx]

Salem was clearly wrong.

Sonic vs falcon: 65-35, sonic's advantage

 

[lordhelmet]

Alright, it's set. Lets move on.

 

[Player-3]

Salem was clearly wrong.

Sonic vs falcon: 65-35, sonic's advantage

No, more like 60:40 if not 55:45

my matches with tenki were somewhat close

and im not good enough to overcome a 65:35 <_<


okay next is... yoshi?

then ill start redoing old matchups

 

[Zeallyx]

No, more like 60:40 if not 55:45

my matches with tenki were somewhat close

and im not good enough to overcome a 65:35 <_<


okay next is... yoshi?

then ill start redoing old matchups

I apologize, I was meant to write 55-45.
My brain messed up and I thought that the closest matchup ratio to 50-50 (But 'out of balance') was 65-35.

My bad.

Falcon vs sonic: 55-45, sonics advantage.

 

[Face124]

Better than running, bro.

People expect you to run. They always will. Thats why you walk. Kinzers got it down.

I'm pretty sure he said its could be used as a mind game. A mind game. That does not mean that it is a substitute for running, at all. Perhaps, Pierce7d said that it was great, but i just watched some vids of him from February, and he didn't walk once in all three matches. Pro Falcon's don't walk, pros in general don't walk. They run though, a lot. Therefore, I'm gonna say runnings better.

I have used it as a mind game before, just walk away from your opponent then raptor boost at them if they approach you. But I think thats all its good for, mind games, and maybe a character who outranges the other with tilts, IE, Marth and D-tilt.

 

[Psychoace]

I play mr. 3000 from time to time and in my experience stay the **** away from the ledge. jabs and grabs are a lot of your saving grace and up air is your best friend. As stated never track after him play defensively a lot. I think bair could be used for good ko's namely in position of a recovering sonic (coming from under the stage but that's not likely to happen in this match up) or if you can time it out of sonics dair. Can't remember the exact hit box for that **** thing so your probably better hitting it behind the foot instead of above it. Grounded is definitely your best place to stay in this match up and platforms can really help (up air and utilt). Anyway I may remember some more after a proper nights sleep so in conclusion falcon has a solid lead on the ground and sonic 'combos' the **** out of you in the air so it's a pretty even match up I think however with speed and gimping capabilities in the hands of the hedgehog, I'd give it to the blue man.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I've played Espy's Sonic as Falcon before.

Don't. It hurts when you don't know the match-up. A lot.

Honestly though, when on the ground, Jab and Grabs are Falcon's safest bets. Unfortuently for me, I didn't realize that until the last 30 seconds of my second match. Grab to punish anything Sonic does with any bit of exploitable lag (which isn't much). Grab -> Pummel -> Throw and chase with an aerial before retreating back. Jab for almost anything else when on the ground. When going for the KO, Utilt is really your only solid choice. Don't stale this move out, save it for the KOs. Sure, if you're on the right stage you may get lucky and land a knee KO, I did, but you can't rely on it obviously.

You can go to the air against Sonic, but you have to be VERY careful when doing so. Dair is useless, pretend it doesn't exist in this match-up. Too slow and not big enough hitbox. Bair has it's uses, but it should be saved as your key aerial KOing move or your defensive "I'm running away now, leave me alone" move if you have to get out of Sonic's range while in the air. Nair should also be mainly defensive and used near the ground. Uair is you're only reliable aggressive aerial move. If Sonic lands on at platform above you, and isn't at KOing range, Uair. If Sonic lands on a platform above you and is at KOing range, go for either the Knee or Bair, depending on where he lands and how much lag he has. (As in, did he use a Dair to land on the platform or not?)

Falcon Kick has it's uses in this match-up, but thats basically it for the B moves. Maybe Falcon Dive if he's in the right position, but that's uncommon. Mix up your recovery, if you get predictable, you will get spring'd. Don't go for the gimp, you'll fail. Aim to get him as he gets up from the ledge.

For stages, avoid Final Destination. Sonic can control this stage way too well. Smashville doesn't help either. In neutrals go for Battlefield. CPing, I'd say Norfair if available.

As an unimportant side note, I'd say Falcon has the advantage when playing online. O_o It's weird how a slight bit of lag can change a match-up.

Over all: Sonic's favor, 4-6 from Falcon's perspective, maybe 45-55.

 

[Darxmarth23]

I'm pretty sure he said its could be used as a mind game. A mind game. That does not mean that it is a substitute for running, at all. Perhaps, Pierce7d said that it was great, but i just watched some vids of him from February, and he didn't walk once in all three matches. Pro Falcon's don't walk, pros in general don't walk. They run though, a lot. Therefore, I'm gonna say runnings better.

I have used it as a mind game before, just walk away from your opponent then raptor boost at them if they approach you. But I think thats all its good for, mind games, and maybe a character who outranges the other with tilts, IE, Marth and D-tilt.

Walking is a useful and underrated approach. Pros don't use enough, but I really think they should.

People think that walking is slow, and it is. That's why they don't use it as an approach. They expect the other person to run, and get you before you can get to them.

But with running you don't have many options. Really all you have is:

Dash Attack
Shield
Jump > Aerial
Oos
Grab
B-moves

When you are walking towards a running object it IS an approach. Its a defensive approach. With walking you have:

F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
F-smash
U-smash
D-smash
Shield
Oos
Jump > Aerial
Jump > iDash Attack
Dash attack
Running
Grab
B-moves
Turn around
Doop walk (barely ever used and should not be used in falcons case)
Jab

You have more options and at least one of them will have good priority. Such as U-tilt. Now timing it right on an object that is moving towards you can be hard, because they have options too, but if U-tilts priority is more or equal, you will have either stopped your opponent, or pushed them back. That's when you switch from a defensive game to an offensive.

I'm not saying walking should be used entirely instead of running. I'm just saying that it is an underused option that should be used more.

In that case it is both a mind game and a defensive approach.

Expect me to walk at my tourney today.

 

[Iwan]

i got a good laugh out of the "falcon beats sonic 65/35"

LOL

 

[talkingbeatles]

For stages, avoid Final Destination. Sonic can control this stage way too well. Smashville doesn't help either. In neutrals go for Battlefield. CPing, I'd say Norfair if available.

What if Norfair isn't available? I do pretty well on Halberd, and I'm working on exploiting Jungle Japes and Distant Planet. I don't know how well Sonic would play on Jungle Japes.

 

[Tenki]

If there's a strategy that you have that forces Sonic to spring, you will probably do good to find a level with lots of platforms (Battlefield)

Otherwise, there isn't really any level that Sonic sucks on, so to speak lol. Just maps that the player sucks on. If you wanna CP stages against a Sonic main, choose a map that either a ) your character is good on or b ) the player hates.

Keep in mind that Sonic can camp under platforms with his U-air just as well as Falcon can, so you don't want things like that turning backwards on you.

 

[t3h n00b]

When you are walking towards a running object it IS an approach. Its a defensive approach. With walking you have:

F-tilt
U-tilt
D-tilt
F-smash
U-smash
D-smash
Shield
Oos
Jump > Aerial
Jump > iDash Attack
Dash attack
Running
Grab
B-moves
Turn around
Doop walk (barely ever used and should not be used in falcons case)
Jab

Imo, Marth isn't in a terrible position when he dashes, as fair is frame 3 and dancing blade frame 4, but I definitely agree that walking is very useful, especially for Falcon. I can't count the times I walk up to someone, ftilt, and they dash into another one. And what's a doop walk? 10funnywords

 

[Player-3]

if There's A Strategy That You Have That Forces Sonic To Spring, You Will Probably Do Good To Find A Level With Lots Of Platforms (battlefield)

Otherwise, There Isn't Really Any Level That Sonic Sucks On, So To Speak Lol. Just Maps That The Player Sucks On. If You Wanna Cp Stages Against A Sonic Main, Choose A Map That Either A ) Your Character Is Good On Or B ) The Player Hates.

Keep In Mind That Sonic Can Camp Under Platforms With His U-air Just As Well As Falcon Can, So You Don't Want Things Like That Turning Backwards On You.

Norfair Shenanigans?

 

[Darxmarth23]

Imo, Marth isn't in a terrible position when he dashes, as fair is frame 3 and dancing blade frame 4, but I definitely agree that walking is very useful, especially for Falcon. I can't count the times I walk up to someone, ftilt, and they dash into another one. And what's a doop walk? 10funnywords

A series of consecutive idashes and walking that is used as a mindgame. It makes the character go one way but it looks like he is spinning.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Just wondering. As far as Sonic goes, can we say it's safe to play extremely defensively. How would one approach a Sonic? I imagine, since he's got no projectiles, that it would be easy to sit back and let him run towards you.

 

[Tenki]

If you're going to do that, hold jab and be ready to camp a mixup move with an attack if you're going to play defensively.

If you hold jab too long, anything can happen from him spinshotting (it's an instant double jump that moves at his running speed) over/behind you and B-air, to him doing a spindash > force clang + punishment or even just walking and spacing a tilt.

If you roll or spotdodge, you're killing yourself.

 

[Iwan]

Played two sonics today, one in a MM. Ended up beating him on Japes (which I still think is one of falcon's best stages, if not the best).

Falcon stays alive long because of the high ceiling (momentum canceling= omg you never die), and Sonic's weak KO potential only adds to how long you live. Just DI up every time, and sonic won't be getting rid of a stock for quite some time.

It's also the only stage where raptor boosting is safe; from outer platforms to the middle (aerial version), it's nearly unpunishable, and also an autospike into the river (which doesn't mean death, but let's face it...it ticks people off).

I know, more of a stage rant than pertaining to the sonic match up, but sonic has problems KOing as is; Japes just aids falcon in the match up more so, imo.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Played two sonics today, one in a MM. Ended up beating him on Japes (which I still think is one of falcon's best stages, if not the best).

Falcon stays alive long because of the high ceiling (momentum canceling= omg you never die), and Sonic's weak KO potential only adds to how long you live. Just DI up every time, and sonic won't be getting rid of a stock for quite some time.

It's also the only stage where raptor boosting is safe; from outer platforms to the middle (aerial version), it's nearly unpunishable, and also an autospike into the river (which doesn't mean death, but let's face it...it ticks people off).

I know, more of a stage rant than pertaining to the sonic match up, but sonic has problems KOing as is; Japes just aids falcon in the match up more so, imo.

Yes! I'm so glad that someone agrees with me on Falcon's Power on Jungle Japes. People generally don't like to play that level., so becoming familiar with it is already going to benefit.

 

[Tenki]

Falcon stays alive long because of the high ceiling

?

you almost make it sound like Sonic relies on star KO's or something lol

Watch for side-B> footstools on that stage then, watch for pummel releases, D-throws by edge, falling springs when you're in the water or under the stage for any reason, etc.

 

[Player-3]

?

you almost make it sound like Sonic relies on KO's or something lol

fix'd

10gimps

 

[Tenki]

that's the thing though, it's still a deadly gimp if you fall in and happen to get a spring/side-B>footstool in the face as you try to DJ out of the water

maybe it's just my preference, but I generally try to get kills with KO's at kill %'s and only once in a while go for a star KO/gimp anyway. So if there's something on Japes that you guys can take advantage of that makes it harder for Sonic to deal damage on you, then that's fine.

=/

 

[Zodac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNb_6-r6mZE&feature=rec-HM-exp_stronger_rn

you should watch this before you discuss the mario match-up

 

[Iwan]

?

you almost make it sound like Sonic relies on star KO's or something lol.

No Tenki, that's not what I mean. Regardless of which direction I'm sent in, since the stage is huge both horizontally and vertically, I can DI up no matter what (which you can't do on almost any level; otherwise you'll die because of bad DI. lulz).

That's not so on Japes.

 

[Tenki]

?_?

Eh.

I don't see any situation where you wouldn't want to DI upwards on Sonic- maybe except for a spring-height B-air. All of his kill/gimp moves aside from a U-air/uber-high% U-throw are horizontal-sending.

Really, almost everyone can live to like 150% against Sonic assuming they DI upwards and are not dispalced from the center. Falcon lives until like 160% on FD with DI/momentum slowing on an unstale F-smash, which is his strongest kill move.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNb_6-r6mZE&feature=rec-HM-exp_stronger_rn

you should watch this before you discuss the mario match-up

brawl and brawl+ = two different games

 

[Iwan]

?_?

Eh.

I don't see any situation where you wouldn't want to DI upwards on Sonic- maybe except for a spring-height B-air. All of his kill/gimp moves aside from a U-air/uber-high% U-throw are horizontal-sending.

Really, almost everyone can live to like 150% against Sonic assuming they DI upwards and are not dispalced from the center. Falcon lives until like 160% on FD with DI/momentum slowing on an unstale F-smash, which is his strongest kill move.

So wouldn't I live even longer on Japes?

haha.

also, maining pit now?

 

[Tenki]

So wouldn't I live even longer on Japes?

Not necessarily.

I mean, unless you can somehow brickwall Sonic and maintain control over the center platform, then okay.

But just keep in mind that anywhere away from dead center is just as normal as FD, and the platforms still extend the stage closer to the blast zone.

Pit is a sort of inside joke

 

[talkingbeatles]

Staying in the middle of the stage is good against Sonic, yes? Maybe taking a crouch position and playing super defensively. Make Sonic approach you. Am I about right in this?

 

[Tenki]

What move will you brickwall with, then?

If Falcon doesn't have a significant brickwall against Sonic then you shouldn't be overplaying this.

Because otherwise it falls down to the players.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Jab is Falcons ultimate stopper/interrupter. Also follows up with a lot of stuff, doing decent damage. Watch out for it :'(

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

What move will you brickwall with, then?

If Falcon doesn't have a significant brickwall against Sonic then you shouldn't be overplaying this.

Because otherwise it falls down to the players.

If its down to the players, then its a 50:50.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

If its down to the players, then its a 50:50.

lol.

 

[jtamm1988]

i noticed when i was playing my friend yesterday if u forward grab sonic at the ledge @ about 110% he be forced to use his up b and that set up for a arieal Raptor boost, but beside that i can say sonic is a pain/annoying

i raptor bosted after i jump of the stage and was above his head waiting to RB him toward the stage, also i would say f throw and try and setup for dair

 

[Tenki]

i noticed when i was playing my friend yesterday if u forward grab sonic at the ledge @ about 110% he be forced to use his up b and that set up for a arieal Raptor boost, but beside that i can say sonic is a pain/annoying

i raptor bosted after i jump of the stage and was above his head waiting to RB him toward the stage, also i would say f throw and try and setup for dair

yeah, sure.

I bet he didn't know that if he still has his double jump, he can just side-B, then double jump, and that's good enough to get Sonic back from almost anywhere.

And I bet he doesn't know he has invincibility frames out of spring, and that if he just falls a bit, he can also make it so that he can airdodge your attempt to land a side-B spike and force you to suicide or get into a position where he's on stage and you're on the ledge.

If its down to the players, then its a 50:50.

Exactly.

 

[Iwan]

yeah, sure.

I bet he didn't know that if he still has his double jump, he can just side-B, then double jump, and that's good enough to get Sonic back from almost anywhere.

And I bet he doesn't know he has invincibility frames out of spring, and that if he just falls a bit, he can also make it so that he can airdodge your attempt to land a side-B spike and force you to suicide or get into a position where he's on stage and you're on the ledge.




Exactly.

dude....lol at your sig xD

omfg xD

 

[Player-3]

So 50:50?
Ooihvgtyh

 

[POPS_44]

So 50:50?
Ooihvgtyh

I say so, I used falcon against sonic in a pools match and it came down to both of us over 150at our last stock. My Bair finished him off and he stormed the room! I wont say his name, but he only use sonic and went to about 40 brawl tornaments already.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Hi. I've turned into a dirty lurker <_<

Sonic is a matchup I have little to nothing to say in, but from what I'm seeing, it looks 50:50.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

Uninformed posts where what destroyed the last matchup thread.

So dont go around posting falcon vs sonic is an even matchup. as that indicates you have never played a good sonic, and dont know what sonic (and falcon) are capable of. (uderrating sonic, and, overrating falcon.).