The New and Hopefully improved Captain Falcon matchup thread! Discussing : MmmmK

[F5Hazardousdoc]

The reason why I say experience is because it's human nature to see flaws. When I'm watching any smash vid on youtube, I'm like "why didnt he do (insert move there) at that given time" etc etc. You can watch as many pros and they won't look as good as they actually are because they are playing someone on a professional level. not sure how to explain it, but pros dont look pro against pro.

Which is why people say to save replays of yourself playing, and watch them, and pick out the moment where you could have done better.

You'll find that you do alot of silly things, and keeping your head in the game, as well as knowing what doesn't work well, can really improve your game.

notadisguisedbumpforamatchupthatshouldberesolvedbynow

 

[Player-3]

We are now discussing.............

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Foxy poo

 

[talkingbeatles]

Holy hell, I'm so glad this guy is next. I've got a friend who kinda sorta mains Fox and god dammit(!)
he always kicks my ***. Fox just seems to run circles around Falcon.

It's in the recovery department that I think we can get him. If you get good enough, (you've got to be good,) you can spike him from Fox illusion, or (heh...) once I knee'd him out of it.
Also, his Fox fire is pretty easy to interrupt, I think.

 

[t3h n00b]

I know this matchup pretty well, Fox is one of my secondaries. Fox uses dair a lot, it can combo or almost combo to dsmash, usmash, utilt, and probably the other tilts. Utilt chains work very well on Falcon because of his fall speed, and I'm not sure of the best way to get out, although obviously they only work at lower damages. While his recoveries are predictable, they have pretty good range, so edgeguarding is probably a good idea. I like to Falcon Dive stagespike Firefox, and edgehogging then ledgehop uairs are pretty good on Illusion... or you can wait onstage to punish if the player is predictable.

Fox's best kill move is usmash, but it's a little less effective on Falcon due to his weight. Basically, try to avoid dairs and the utilt lock, and you can live for a long time. His reflector can also infinite you against a wall, it is really easy to do. He also has a dash attack>jab canceled grab combo at lower percentages. I'd say the matchup is 60-40 in Fox's favor, because he can force an approach and rack up damage quickly if you get hit by dair or fair. However, his kill moves, usmash, bair, and dsmash, have pretty low range, so watch out for those dair combos once again.

 

[Player-3]

dtilt dtilt ACed dair > knee

lulzy free like 40-50-60 i dont know the% if they airdodge the second dtilt

 

[eRonin]

Yeah, watch out for his dair and fair D=
Otherwise Falcon out-ranges Fox and is almost as fast in the air so it's not too bad of a match-up. I think first hit nair approach is best against him.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Its 40:60, I secondary fox, played fox's, and have two lengthy text blocks in two other topics on the matchup. Srsly. I'll go find them and repost here later ok...

EDIT: LOL FAIL MATCHUP RATIO

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Which is why people say to save replays of yourself playing, and watch them, and pick out the moment where you could have done better.

You'll find that you do alot of silly things, and keeping your head in the game, as well as knowing what doesn't work well, can really improve your game.

notadisguisedbumpforamatchupthatshouldberesolvedbynow

replays of yourself is still experience.

 

[Kimchi]

I don't think metroid noticed this thread so I'll post my message here XD. Hello Falcon Boards, the Ike Boards are currently discussing the Falcon matchup so please come and have a constructive discussion about the matchup with us.

 

[masterdrenin]

fox's are pretty easy to predict
u can shieldgrab them a lot
uptilt is good too
don't get hit
kill them fast cuz u can he's a light beach

 

[Player-3]

fox's are pretty easy to predict
u can shieldgrab them a lot
uptilt is good too
don't get hit
kill them fast cuz u can he's a light beach

AWWWWWW YEEEEEEEEE
Drenin has arrived

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I wouldn't recommend trying to sheild grab fox out of his dair's.

 

[masterdrenin]

awwwww yeeeeeee playah xD

 

[talkingbeatles]

I wouldn't recommend trying to sheild grab fox out of his dair's.

Yeah. It won't work. I've tried.
Many times.

 

[Roager]

holy ****, its Roager! That guy's been gone for a while. Too bad, really, cuz I liked that guy.

Anyway, yeah, I'm here, dunno how long I'll stay, but here's my fox matchup stuff.

Fox has Falcon outmatched, in most every way. Except in killpower and (in some cases) range.

So, what do you do against a fox? Well, I don't know a lot about Fox metagame, but his Dair is **** useful. Against a Fox Dair, your best bet is to sheild, then try and roll away when he lands. It's not great, but it helps. Against his grabs, keep track of what he does, and DI away from his patterns. Uair, Usmash, and possibly Bair are his favorite Killmoves. (At least, they're my favorite fox killmoves)

Anyway, there's very little you can do about those, except that they all have long (for fox) post-lag. This is your one and only chance to punish fox. Seriously. Ok, recovery too, but I'll get to that.

Point is, if you can land a uair or something, then you can use that to get an advantage. Tough, but not impossible.

When you manage to get fox off the edge, he has 2 options: Illusion and Fire. Illusion is crazy predictable. It will go straight to the side, the same distance every time (yeah, it can be canceled, but nobody does it) and at the same time every time but it goes really fast. Fire, inversely, is less predictable (though they will almost without fail go straight for the edgegrab) but its slower.

Both of these have punishable endlag, and particularly punishable helpless fall. Also, edgesteal at every opportunity. Fox likes to grab the edge to minimize his vulnerabilities. The only exception is when he tries to illusion past you, almost across the ground. If he tries that, sheild and pursue. Dash attack is probably the only thing you'll manage to hit with, but its something.

I'll probably come back to post more later, but right now i'm tired. So here's something.

I dunno how useful it is, but go for it.

 

[t3h n00b]

Falcon Dive is actually decent OoS, and way better at shieldgrabbing than Falcon's regular grab, try using that if you shield a lot of dairs. A smart Fox will jab a lot, either to lead into grabs, or anything really if you aren't on your toes. Shine>usmash is crazy, Fox has so many options if you do the same thing twice. And Fox can double jab cancel... basically like a standing semi-jab lock, his jab is probably almost as useful as Falcon's at this point. DJC doesn't work on Falcon if you SDI away from it, but just be very aware of jab, something like dair>jab>shine>usmash is very feasible if you're facing a good Fox.

And hi Roager, you should stick around

 

[talkingbeatles]

I'm telling you. We need to talk about gimping Fox on his recoveries. I think they're telegraph-able enough to seriously punish. That's where the money is.

 

[LuLLo]

About his recoveries, 7/10th of the time I gimp a Fox with D-air, Knee, U-air or D/F-smash.
Also, what I've found out the hard way, when Fox is sent high above the abyss (in the right-up corner), don't go for an edgehog, stay on the stage and wait for his predictability to rise and then swiftly punish. The thing is, when you edgehog, he can just Illusion back on the stage, which can be punished by a sweet Knee (which won't happen most of the time, since they will make sure the Illusion is out of your range, and when you go for that Knee, you'll get set up for an edgehog yourself.

So now, things Fox can do to return:
1. Firefox the edge.
2. Firefox high above the edge.
3. Firefox back on stage.
4. Illusion the edge.
5. Illusion back on stage.

And what Falcon can do to punish them:
1. D-air (both hitboxes will suffice), Sweet Knee if timed right, U-air (easiest to land).
2. Sweet Knee (best option), U-air, D/F-Smash on the way down.
3. Sweet Knee (pretty hard to land), D/F-Smash, grab, anything else.
4. Edgehog (most effective if done correctly), runoff U-air, B-air, D-air (difficult to time).
5. Sweet Knee (know the exact distance of the Illusion), D/F-Smash, B-air, Falcon Punch if you have epic predicting skills.

How to get a Fox of the stage:
Well, just kick him till his % is high enough, but a very good way to put Fox in a bad situation is to GGR (grounded grab release) him off the edge, after that he can do 4 things: Firefox immediatly, Jump back to the stage, jump away from the stage and Illusion and jump away and Firefox, and if you're a good Falcon, you can punish them all with ease.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

About his recoveries, 7/10th of the time I gimp a Fox with D-air, Knee, U-air or D/F-smash.
Also, what I've found out the hard way, when Fox is sent high above the abyss (in the right-up corner), don't go for an edgehog, stay on the stage and wait for his predictability to rise and then swiftly punish. The thing is, when you edgehog, he can just Illusion back on the stage, which can be punished by a sweet Knee (which won't happen most of the time, since they will make sure the Illusion is out of your range, and when you go for that Knee, you'll get set up for an edgehog yourself.

So now, things Fox can do to return:
1. Firefox the edge.
2. Firefox high above the edge.
3. Firefox back on stage.
4. Illusion the edge.
5. Illusion back on stage.

And what Falcon can do to punish them:
1. D-air (both hitboxes will suffice), Sweet Knee if timed right, U-air (easiest to land).
2. Sweet Knee (best option), U-air, D/F-Smash on the way down.
3. Sweet Knee (pretty hard to land), D/F-Smash, grab, anything else.
4. Edgehog (most effective if done correctly), runoff U-air, B-air, D-air (difficult to time).
5. Sweet Knee (know the exact distance of the Illusion), D/F-Smash, B-air, Falcon Punch if you have epic predicting skills.

How to get a Fox of the stage:
Well, just kick him till his % is high enough, but a very good way to put Fox in a bad situation is to GGR (grounded grab release) him off the edge, after that he can do 4 things: Firefox immediatly, Jump back to the stage, jump away from the stage and Illusion and jump away and Firefox, and if you're a good Falcon, you can punish them all with ease.

You forgot fox can add height to his recovery with fair.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Hey Player-3...
can you add updates and summaries of the characters we've discussed so far?

 

[Player-3]

but.. that would require work....

yeah ill do it... weve only discussed sonic
<_<

 

[talkingbeatles]

but.. that would require work....

yeah ill do it... weve only discussed sonic
<_<

Heh. Yeah I mean it's cool.
Just whenever you get around to it I guess.


Should we move on to another match up?

 

[lordhelmet]

Are you guys sure that DK-Falcon is 70-30?

I've versed a pretty good amount of DK's and none of them ***** me too badly. I think as long as you can space properly, and get them in the air with SHAC'd Nairs or Dairs and get in some psuedo combo's, you're good!

:D

 

[t3h n00b]

This thread needed a bump, maybe DK should be the next discussion. I like fighting DKs because they're easy to knee, but DK outranges Marth. So just like the Marth matchup, if the DK spaces right, there is really no safe approach for Falcon. Your description could apply to any character.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Ooh yes. Let's move on to DK please.

 

[lordhelmet]

DK obviously over-ranges Falcon quite a bit, so you will need to know your spacing to do well in this matchup. Depending on the player, DK may try to gimp you with Bair, Fair, or Dair. I find that it is best to avoid this particular situation by recovering low, since DK cannot go down very far.

Some positives for us is that DK is more prone to psuedo combo's due to his size. Try to get an opening with SHAC'd Nair, or Dair, if that's not working try jumping over him with an FF'd Bair. Once you get DK to a high enough procent, go for the AC'd Dair to Sweet Knee on him.

In my opinion, I think the matchup is 60/40 Dk's favor.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Dk outranges marth, but he doesn't have the same type of hitbox as marth <_<;

Marth's sword makes that different.

Gah, I have horrid experience with DK seeing as the only time I fought one with falcon, I got ***** because I HAVE HORRID EXPERIENCE WITH DK. *facepalm*

 

[lordhelmet]

How come this isn't stickied?

Why do we have 2 video threads stickied?

Why do we have a "Report any spam" sticky? No other boards have it...

 

[Darxmarth23]

Why do we have a "Report any spam" sticky? No other boards have it...

Because at the time we were going through hell.

 

[Iwan]

LOL...god I hate DK. My friend mains him and....he's....annoying.....-_-

His tilts are ridiculous, most notably DK's Ftilt; it stops all of our approaches (not that you should ever be approaching. lol). His smash moves kill at stupid low percents. His bair is really good, and even when you know it's coming a good DK can somehow manage to hit you. rofl.

His grab range is amazing too, so jabjabgrab can be risky sometimes. It works well though.

Get him in the air and falcon can destroy the ape, though.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Yeah. I have a friend that seconded DK in Melee and whips him sometimes in Brawl. He's brutal. DK is very hard to edgegaurd for me. His tilts are all awesome, and his smashes all rock, but you can DI them to a pretty high percent. His throws are all awesome, except maybe his forward one.

Watch out for uncharged DONKEY punch. I think Falcon is on par with DK in the air though. He's got a decent nair, like three spikes, and one of the most kick *** bairs in the game.

 

[Player-3]

Yeah. I have a friend that seconded DK in Melee and whips him sometimes in Brawl. He's brutal. DK is very hard to edgegaurd for me. His tilts are all awesome, and his smashes all rock, but you can DI them to a pretty high percent. His throws are all awesome, except maybe his forward one.

Watch out for uncharged DONKEY punch. I think Falcon is on par with DK in the air though. He's got a decent nair, like three spikes, and THE most kick *** bairs in the game.

fix'd for rightfulnesss

 

[Wogrim]

The only thing about DK that scares me is cargo throw stagespike, which I've not had enough practice to avoid. Those of you getting owned by his tilts are probably just standing around at the wrong distance.

 

[t3h n00b]

I don't play a lot of DKs, but imo, his tilts are way better and harder to avoid. They outrange Marth (yes, I know they don't have a sword-like disjoint), and are pretty fast, and I think they can't be shieldgrabbed if spaced right. The distance that is in range of DK's tilts is the only distance where Falcon can hit him, and the cargo spike has a pretty long throwing animation, it's usually pretty easy to tech the second or third time you see it.

 

[LuLLo]

Couldn't you just hold Up to avoid the Cargo stage spike?
Anyways, DK is one of MY easiest matchups really, you can punish almost everything he throws at you except b-air and d-tilt. F-tilt comes with lag afterwards, so it can be punished from time to time if DK doesn't space well. As for aerial game, we imo beat out DK easily, if the DK is facing you and you're under him at 135 degrees, we **** him because of his slow f-air, d-air and specials. Therefore a DK is easy to juggle, but so are we when above DK. I haven't really got much to contribute, since (if you didn't figure it out already) I haven't played good DK's.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

DK's beast.

I've seen OOK in action, and DK is a beast.

Anyways, 30:70 since DK's KO power and range give him a bigger edge than some others, and DK has a legit edgeguard game on falcon due to large ranged spikes.

 

[BSP]

Does anyone have priority issues with C. Falcon? When I play with him, it s usually not a big problem, but, according to smashwiki, his low placement comes from low priority too. Does anyone have priority issues?

 

[talkingbeatles]

fix'd for rightfulnesss

Heh. Thank you for the correction. You sir, are right.

 

[Red-Blue]

less spam, more discussion

 

[Player-3]

dk is hairier than falcon, so dk wins

60:40 dk