The New Match-Up Chart v2 - Convert to +/-? ;;>_>

[clubbadubba]

Kirby 60 Fox
Falcon 55 Fox
Fox 50 Mario
Fox 55 Yoshi
Fox 65 Ness
Fox 60 Luigi
Fox 70 Samus (75?)

Any thoughts on vs Puff?

Here are my personal opinions:

Fox 75 Samus--matchup is just as bad as pika v link imo. Samus is helpless on stage. She can recover all she wants, but really what's the point?

Fox 70 Link--better than samus, but still noticeably worse than all the other characters vs fox.

Fox 65 Luigi
Fox 65 Puff

I've been convinced that puff and luigi are about the same v fox. I don't think either is 60-40, but certainly not as bad as fox v link. I don't really know the ness matchup at all, so I left it out.

I don't really see the mario matchup as even at all (60-40 for fox imo), but enough people do so I'll just concede that one. Also did we decide numbers for DK?

 

[ballin4life]

I guess I just suck with Fox ...

 

[Sangoku]

Don't worry, fox takes a lot of practice. Go to training mode and try not to reset the combo meter .

 

[t3h Icy]

Fox 75 Samus--matchup is just as bad as pika v link imo. Samus is helpless on stage. She can recover all she wants, but really what's the point?

I don't think it's that horrible. Samus can at least kill Fox if he's off the stage. I think 70-30 is fine in my opinion.

Also did we decide numbers for DK?

Yes, but it's the same as it already is so I left it out.

 

[clubbadubba]

Yes, but it's the same as it already is so I left it out.

Did you do the same for link (the matchup was previously 70-30)? I think the samus matchup is noticeably worse than the link matchup is and that should be reflected in the chart. Anyway just my opinion that fox v samus is 75-25, what do other people think?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

^^^is it as bad as Pikachu-Samus?
(as this is the only matchup right now i put personally at 75-25)

 

[Olikus]

Fox vs samus isnt worse than fox vs link on DL imo. Both are 70-30 imo.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah, Fox vs Samus on DL is obviously much better than Hyrule. Fox has much less room for ****** Samus with lasers, and the small stage + Fox's bad recovery gives Samus much more kill opportunities than on Hyrule. I think it's +4 for Fox AT BEST, possibly even +3.

Pikachu vs Samus is definitely worse on Dreamland, IMO.

 

[t3h Icy]

Updated Fox stuff: Kirby 60 Fox, Falcon 55 Fox, Fox 50 Mario, Fox 55 Yoshi, Fox 65 Ness, Fox 60 Luigi

Next is Kirby. My opinions:

Kirby 65 DK
Kirby 65 Ness (maybe 60)
Kirby 65 Link

The rest are fine or I don't know. Dreamland doesn't have much space to avoid Kirby's gayness with slow characters and Kirby should be able to kill most characters once they're off, while Kirby can recover fairly well compared to others since if he's alive, he should have a couple jumps when he gets back and the near platform can help for an option. Kirby should probably still die vs competent players, but it's a lot better than most.

Kirby vs DK is combo food. Link dies and can't use his projectiles and movement as well on Hyrule, and has limited space to run from Kirby. Ness I don't really know, but he's super easy to gimp. If he's over the stage, Kirby should have a pretty good chance at killing so long as Kirby doesn't get smacked by something.

vs Pikachu and Fox look good.

 

[ciaza]

Quick input: Kirby - Ness I would give as 70:30. Kirby shuts down Ness' defensive DJC bubble with large hitboxes such as utilt and bair which both lead into utilts and by extension an 0-death or a gimp opportunity in most cases.

Ness does have viable plays on Kirby such as plat tech chasing, tech chasing in general, nair/fair chains or something leading into a powerful throw, but if the Kirby plays incredibly defensively and cautious I believe he can minmise the occurence of such things.

As t3h Icy mentioned Kirby has quite an easy time gimping Ness.

inb4Peek

 

[Peek~]

70 is alright. Id go 75 since I think this matchup is harder than Vs Pikachu

Anything lower than 70 is crazy

 

[clubbadubba]

So I think only me (65) and Battlecow (70) gave numbers for the fox v puff MU, but it seemed like a few people were tempted say it was lower than 70-30. Not to slow things down but is everyone okay with 70-30 for fox v puff? Just feels like we barely discussed that matchup

 

[Battlecow]

Two of the main posters we've got in this thread are the Power Puff Proponents (ballin + Kingstar) so I think the response to fox 70 puff 30 was a little skewed

I'm for the way it is now but you're right, we didn't discuss it a lot.

 

[clubbadubba]

Well then we need to get more Anti-Adorable Addlebrains in here to even the sides. Seriously though, it seems silly to make this chart with input from less than 10 people, where everybody at?

 

[asianaussie]

was that a reference to me lol

ill talk about kirby later

 

[clubbadubba]

No, although if you'd like to agglutinate to the alliance your alias is appropriate acknowledging the alliteration antecedent of the association.

Thesauruses are fun!

 

[ciaza]

Everyone is at the backroom and doesn't feel like posting twice or is just lazy.

 

[asianaussie]

The latter.

*Glares*

 

[ballin4life]

So I think only me (65) and Battlecow (70) gave numbers for the fox v puff MU, but it seemed like a few people were tempted say it was lower than 70-30. Not to slow things down but is everyone okay with 70-30 for fox v puff? Just feels like we barely discussed that matchup

50:50 DL due to gimpz/comboz for Jiggz. Fox doesn't really combo Jiggs that well IMO

Two of the main posters we've got in this thread are the Power Puff Proponents (ballin + Kingstar) so I think the response to fox 70 puff 30 was a little skewed

I'm for the way it is now but you're right, we didn't discuss it a lot.

oooh I call Bubbles!

Everyone is at the backroom and doesn't feel like posting twice or is just lazy.

Backroom is busy discussing Jigglypuff's placement on the all new taunt tier list.

 

[Olikus]

Dont think foxvsDK is 60-40. Dont remember anyone putting those number up either. Its more close than that. Allso fox puff shouldnt be as much as 70-30 on DL. Its not as bad as those others 70-30 suggestions.

kirby-ness and kirby- link is both 70-30 at least. Kirby-falcon is allso close to those numbers. 65-35 maybe.

 

[Sangoku]

Fox just need to laser a lot and DK won't get to many gay grabs. Plus he's easily comboes and edgeguarded.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

DK is really good vs fox on DL, like, advantage good. Fox is pretty gay to fight as DK though.

 

[Sangoku]

Lol okay I was wrong then. There aren't many good DKs in Europe so it's hard to tell. I've always felt that a campy lasoring fox was unbeatable for DK. What should he do? Approach from above with the platforms' help?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Looking at the MUs for Samus make me sad.

 

[ballin4life]

Fox just need to laser a lot and DK won't get to many gay grabs. Plus he's easily comboes and edgeguarded.

How do you edgeguard DK with Fox? I'm genuinely curious - I don't find it super hard but I don't find it easy either.

 

[t3h Icy]

Looking at the MUs for Samus make me sad.

We also haven't gone through them all. Expect more drops. ;D

Wait until Hyrule too. :D

 

[Sangoku]

Ballin: Don't pay attention to what I say I suck at this game and I don't know what I'm talking about. I'll try not to post in this thread in the future. I'm not trolling or anything but I realise I'm far from being good enough to discuss important things like matchups. As for a last reply I just laser if dk is high then dsmash/dair to dsmash/fsmash. I know dk has invincible arms and so on.

 

[ballin4life]

Ballin: Don't pay attention to what I say I suck at this game and I don't know what I'm talking about. I'll try not to post in this thread in the future. I'm not trolling or anything but I realise I'm far from being good enough to discuss important things like matchups. As for a last reply I just laser if dk is high then dsmash/dair to dsmash/fsmash. I know dk has invincible arms and so on.

I'm not trying to argue with you - I was asking. I haven't been playing much lately so I haven't been getting better.

 

[Sangoku]

I knew this is how my post sounded like =/. But really I meant what I said ^^.

 

[The Star King]

Two of the main posters we've got in this thread are the Power Puff Proponents (ballin + Kingstar) so I think the response to fox 70 puff 30 was a little skewed

I'm for the way it is now but you're right, we didn't discuss it a lot.

Hmph. Like I said, I'm not a big proponent for Puff or anything. I think she's underrated in exactly two match-ups, Fox and Luigi. Maybe Yoshi, since apparently people like Pete think Yoshi wrecks her. That's it.

So I think only me (65) and Battlecow (70) gave numbers for the fox v puff MU, but it seemed like a few people were tempted say it was lower than 70-30. Not to slow things down but is everyone okay with 70-30 for fox v puff? Just feels like we barely discussed that matchup

I would put at about +1 or +2 for Fox.

50:50 DL due to gimpz/comboz for Jiggz. Fox doesn't really combo Jiggs that well IMO

As much as I think Puff is underrated in this match-up, that's going too far.

 

[Battlecow]

Ballin' doesn't believe it either. In his own words, he "exaggerates his points to draw attention"

So whatever he says, add twenty points in fox's favor.

 

[The Star King]

Ballin' doesn't believe it either. In his own words, he "exaggerates his points to draw attention"

So whatever he says, add twenty points in fox's favor.

I'll go with ten.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

you really think its only 60-40 (Lolratio, can't think of it properly). I mean it is closer on Dreamland but at best, I think it is 60-40 or 65-35 Fox on Dreamland and 65-35 or even 70-30 on Hyrule.

only stage I am not sure of is Congo

 

[The Star King]

I don't disagree.

 

[t3h Icy]

Kirby 65 DK
Kirby 70 Ness
Kirby 70 Link
Fox 65 Puff

I know Kirby is gay and all, but come on!

 

[clubbadubba]

kirby is so lame that he (she? it?) singlehandedly killed the matchup discussion, way to go.

Those numbers all seem ok to me, but I can't speak too much on kirby's matchups seeing as how kirby ALWAYS beats me, so I'd just put everything at 100-0. Seriously I'm less useful than usual for kirby, I'll be back for falcon, what's everyone elses excuse?!?!?!?!

 

[The Star King]

Fine.

Kirby +3 Link
Kirby +4 Ness
Fox +3 Puff

IDK about DK.

 

[Olikus]

fox-DK is more close than +2. I'd say +1.

kirby +4 link
kirby +4 ness
kirby +3 DK
kirby +2 puff
kirby +3 luigi

 

[SheerMadness]

Yoshi/Pikachu is off on the old chart.

Pikachu is not Yoshi's worst matchup and definitely isn't 65-35.

I'd put it more like 60-40 maybe even 55-45 Pikachu. Yoshi has to be one of the better characters in the game vs Pika. Good horizontal combos vs pika, kills him VERY early % wise, even more agile in the air than pika due to djc, and Yoshi is one of the harder chars in the game to edgeguard.

Fox/DK I dunno. Fox's lasers can really **** DK up bad. I'd say Fox has the advantage on dreamland.

 

[asianaussie]

I don't think Yoshi Pika is 55:45. Pika outranges Yoshi in general, doesn't get vertically comboed too well and can't really be edgeguarded either. I agree 60:40 is better than 65:35 though.

DK edgeguards Fox so well it's actually sad.