The new Roy Strategem discussion

[ChivalRuse]

I love full hops with roy. its more useful than you think

Yea. Flare blade isn't really an amazing move, but at full hop height it's pretty much one of your best options. Again, it's not amazing, but it has a nice coverage arc. And what I like about it is that when your opponent eats enough FJ flare blades in a row, he has the tendency to jump less. And you can easily capitalize on this with your awesome ground game.

It's sort of like you can use FJ flares to condition your opponent to play the way you're comfortable with.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

hey i like to dtilt>FJ dair onto platform.

legal double post- i stole this from a marth move i made

if u SH mid air DED jab past a shielding opponent, u basically land behind thier shield. u can actually pressure the back of thier shield. i like dtilt and jabs to pressure them. if they roll or spotdodge, punish. if they stand there petrified(people **** bricks when ur in back of thier shield) you earned yourself a shield break

i didnt have time to test yet, so elaborate on your opinions and thoughts.^^

 

[Nø Ca$h]

LOOK ^

also, shfflc fair to ftilt if they di up(to avoid dtilt)?

 

[Jihnsius]

The only problem is that most good characters' grab range reaches over their entire hitbox so you'd have to be almost behind them to begin with when you hit with the DED, otherwise they'll grab you regardless of whether you're almost behind them or not.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT.

hmmm. i get it. i guess to pull it off, i need to be really close. which i might aswell do something else if im that close, cause they wont be shielding.

the roy boards need organization. his metagame will NEVER evolve if the roy community doesnt pull together and discuss. and roy players will never get better if they stay close minded.

 

[Jihnsius]

Very few good players are interested in Roy, that's the problem. The majority of other characters have at least some fan base and interest, hell, look at all the "ask X about X" threads. We don't even have that. Aside from the couple die hard Roy fans that frequent this board, all we have is Sethlon for Roy rep. And even then it doesn't look too great due to how bad Roy is. No offense, Sethlon, you're my favorite player, Roy just sucks.

All we can really do now is get ***** with Roy and have fun doing it.

EDIT: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97749
rofl.
I miss old Melee.

 

[ike_love]

Very few good players are interested in Roy, that's the problem. The majority of other characters have at least some fan base and interest, hell, look at all the "ask X about X" threads. We don't even have that. Aside from the couple die hard Roy fans that frequent this board, all we have is Sethlon for Roy rep. And even then it doesn't look too great due to how bad Roy is. No offense, Sethlon, you're my favorite player, Roy just sucks.

All we can really do now is get ***** with Roy and have fun doing it.

EDIT: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97749
rofl.
I miss old Melee.

"cries of rage" ***** lol, anyway I'm pretty sure not even sethlon reps roy anymore...and by the way, there used to be an excellent ask seth and exarch about roy guide, but it got scrapped. if the powers that be have like an archive with that info in it, its a great tool to check for new/bad roys. But most likely it's wiped from all existence, so don't get your hopes up.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i know right. i quit roy. be back when im an amazing player. im goin marth. by roy boards *waves*

 

[handsockpuppet]

well lulz since both Sethlon and Exarch quit of course the thread is dead. but NOVA, just because you switched to a good character doesn't mean you have to leave the boards T_T

I don't know why I even try anymore. I haven't dropped Roy, but I kindasorta quit Melee, I still play sometimes but not so competitively, and I'm not sure if I'll ever play it as much as I used to. Too Human, Red Faction Guerrila, The Orange Box, BioShock, Oblivion, and Little Big Planet really cut into Melee time.

 

[Sethlon]

The "Ask Exarch and Sethlon stuff about roy stuff" thread died waaaaay before either of us quit. People just stopped posting in it =/

The thread still exists, its just that most people's format won't show threads that haven't been posted in for a certain amount of time. Searching for it should bring it up.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

nah, i wont leave the boards completly. i was a noob not to long ago. i learned fast. i swear i will be heard of. im going to be the best roy ever one day. but il start with marth, and when im at a professional level with marth, thats when il claim my title. untill then the roy boards will have to be a zombified toxic dump

i have no ****ing clue where honah lee is, but id like to play u one day puppet master XD.

-NOVA

 

[handsockpuppet]

trust me, the Roy boards were ALWAYS a zombified toxic dump.

and XD I'm not very good and probably won't even try to be until maybe SSB4 comes out. that is unless it sucks like Brawl. I've never been to a tourney, and probably never will.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

im not gonna wait for ssb4. melee is perfect imo.
if you want to be good at smash ever, start with melee. dont wait on sakurai intentionaly making a good game. you might as well be playing 52 pick up with a bunch of jokers.

think about that last line. its deep

also, i think tigerblade will be reppin it more in the future. idk maybe

 

[N64]

So i played ninjalink in some friendlies this weekend. Roy vs. pika is fun (from the pika side at least).

Also apparently Roy can DI-dependant chainthrow pika, which I didn't know and soon found out. If pika DIs backthrow and fthrow towards roy, he can regrab either. So ninjalink would mix these up and get me on some bad DIs occasionally and get like 3-4 grabs and then fsmash and i was like PiKaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

fun times.

 

[handsockpuppet]

...but the point is always to DI away from them...
...and how could it work more than once? after the first throw why would you DI back to him again? I guess if he mixes it up it's a little harder, but can't you see which way you're going before you need to DI?

obviously NinjaLink has gotten so good with Roy that he now has an extended grab range. or he learned to use the force. or maybe he just had some PokeFood in his pocket.

EDIT: also was it backthrow or downthrow? or both?

 

[TresChikon]

Might be wrong but it sounds like he would DI left to anticipate a bthrow but ninjalink fthrows him instead and vice-versa.

 

[N64]

backthrow i believe, and he'd just grab throw bam bam, not much reaction time to it. If i expect fthrow and DI in front of him accordingly, he bthrows and and regrabs.

Just was taken by surprise that Roy had a chainthrow on pika (even if it's escapable, just that the grab itself occurs before pika hits the ground from the previous throw).

 

[ChivalRuse]

So i played ninjalink in some friendlies this weekend. Roy vs. pika is fun (from the pika side at least).

Also apparently Roy can DI-dependant chainthrow pika, which I didn't know and soon found out. If pika DIs backthrow and fthrow towards roy, he can regrab either. So ninjalink would mix these up and get me on some bad DIs occasionally and get like 3-4 grabs and then fsmash and i was like PiKaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

fun times.

The Roy vs. Pika match-up needs to happen more. Even if it doesn't, I wonder if Roy has a chaingrab like that in any other match-ups. I'm going to have to test this out.

 

[Jihnsius]

The Roy vs. Pika match-up needs to happen more. Even if it doesn't, I wonder if Roy has a chaingrab like that in any other match-ups. I'm going to have to test this out.

Can't Roy do that to almost every non fastfaller?

 

[exarch]

DI down to avoid any follow ups. It's the same principle as what floaties should be DIing Marth's throws with. DIing down sends all F/B/Dthrow away from Roy or Marth.

And why would Roy having a CG on Pika surprise you? ****ing SAMUS can CG Pika.

-So no, unfortunately, with good DI, Roy can only followup throws on FFers, and no one else.-

Pika beats Roy (imo), but the match is close. Edgeguard Pika like Sheik, but if he grows balls and chases you way off the level--even if he just taps you with the end of his nair, there's little you can do to come back; maybe time an overb well to stop him.

P.S. *Bonus* DIing Roy throws down is one of the unlockable features of being good at Roy dittoes.

 

[N64]

thanks exarch!

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i had to learn diing down the hard way. in roy vs marth -.-

 

[N64]

Oh i know why i never really DI'd roy's throws down. If you DI marth's fthrow or bthrow down as pika you die instantly to tipper fsmash.

Anyways, anyone have any feelings/experience on roy vs. pika? I'm interested to hear.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I don't have much experience, but it doesn't seem like there's that much you can do (that is, if you're Roy). if you want advice on Pika, you should go to the pika boards. All I can think of for Roy is Dtilt plenty, dodge Pika's projectile, and grab often (although it seems now he can't link any throws together if you DI downward. Dthrow>Fsmash may still be legit, however). also DED and edgehog recoveries.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

two words

tail spike.

 

[ohgodx]

uhm
if i may
if you get caught with your opponent at high percentages and can't finish a side-b anymore, I suggest just grab-gaming them and grab-attacking them to about 180% or 190% (depending on your opponent's character, some much less than that) and then just up-throw as a killing blow

edge-guarding, there's his flare blade, which is nice only if you can space it well; how I space it is I imagine Roy's height standing up as the side of a square, and try to get that same amount of distance between you and where the opponent can grab the edge while recovering, then just let go of b at the right time
what this does is that you can charge the flare blade to a really powerful (not to mention intimidating) attack that's easy to time, with decent range, and proper spacing allows you to hit them at just the final hit-box, while staying out of range from any up-b's hitting and interrupting you

edgeguarding still - if you do that same spacing technique with the flare blade, do the same thing with the forward smash, but instead of facing the edge, face AWAY fromt he edge at that same point and then fsmash the opponent at the right time.
what this does is, when Roy is in a stance position, he leans forward, that leaning forward protects you even better than just the initial spacing, this way literally no up-b is able to hit you. At the same time, when you fsmash from this position, you're hitting just about at Roy's sweet-spot

figuring opponent's mind games -
what I usually do is just dash dance so they at least have something to keep track of and maybe throw them off a bit (don't count on it though) and then soon as they get a little too close, even if they're shielding, just try to do the first attack of side-b (tipper) - if it hits, see if you can do something with the next 2 or 3 hits of side-b - if not, then the tipper-range spacing will keep you from getting too badly punished, and you should be able to just keep moving

I don't know much what else to say at the moment but I spoke my mind
I'll probably be back with more on this regarding u-air shffl, and mimicking Marth's f-air combo
shouldn't really need much explaining...but I'll be back later
there's a melee fest at campus I'm wanted at

 

[ohgodx]

if you sense a Pikachu that likes throwing himself at you with shffl aerial attacks / combos, there are two things you can do, though you'll probably only be listening to one
- if he's coming at you with like a shffl n-air or f-air, it has a really short range so your sword should be able to hit him without being interrupted or damaged; I'd use an uncharged flare blade if it's a split second kind of thing, if not though, Pikachu will be less than likely to throw himself at you or try anything fast and fancy up close with a flare blade charging. Or there's up-smash if he is coming at you from above; up-smash is a great defense attack since it has a duration in which the opponent can get hit, thus interrupted (not to mention if it's charged up, it has high damage potential)

-if you're at low percent, don't be afraid to just crouch-cancel any attacks he may do, and just d-tilt immediately afterward. While he's stunned, you can do f-air or u-air shffl and do another d-tilt - repeat - Or if he crouch-cancels your d-tilt, Pikachu is too light to remain in the crouch position after getting hit from d-tilt, so he will be in the laying position on the floor, which gives you a split-second to do another d-tilt

if for some reason Pikachu starts spamming his spark projectile, just parry it with a neutral-a, f-air if in the air

if he's getting you with his u-air combo, DI upward so you can hopefully escape it, or at least give you time to interrupt him with a f-air (try not to use any other aerials for combo breaking, they're slower and have a smaller area which they can hit)

if he's at high percent and you can't seem to land a killing blow, up-throw kills Pikachu pretty safely at 160 to 170 percent

 

[Jihnsius]

Good input, but nothing new.

 

[ohgodx]

alright, well a general rule of thumb trying to be a bit less specific on what moves to use and when, is that while Marth does fine in the air when trying to mind games someone, for example using fair and nair as a defense mechanism or stun to get a grab in, Roy, for me at least, does much better completely grounded.
He's a little shorter and in my eyes a little harder to hit (just by a few frames) which means zooming around on the ground is a bit more comfortable than trying to try Marth tricks, i.e. the shffl'ing

also, anyone who plays Roy knows that it's more difficult to space because you're always trying to hit your opponent more with the inside of the blade, and tippers get really annoying, doing little damage, almost no knockback, and nearly impossible to combo with.
nevertheless though, spacing is important.
so what I do in order to compensate for trying to get the inside of the blade out on the offense, when I shield, I always have up a light shield.
what it does is that when you get knocked back a distance while your shield is up, light shielding increases the distance you are knocked back. You can still jump and/or wavedash out of it, but it makes shield-grabbing more difficult, in case you're really into shield grabbing.

 

[TresChikon]

Roy still depends on his air game, just less than Marth. Like 35-40% air.

 

[ohgodx]

I'd argue 15-20% air
probably because I play defense intensive, which means I try to grab a lot, and shield pressure with tippered side-b (double-edged dance: side, side, down, down)

I just don't see a whole lot one can do with a set of aerials that are difficult to combo into eachother, difficult to space, and have little knockback, unless it's trying to force them into another d-tilt

probably just my preference though

 

[TresChikon]

So you don't U-air juggle/combo or space with nair/fair?

I'll admit that it's not great spacing like G-dorf or Marth, but it is essential to Roy's game.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

roy needs shfflcs to broaden his approach game. if all u do is dd ded. or dd grab, you will be ccc or sg.

do NOT abuse light shielding. a smart marth(or any good char) can shield break you. its better to sdi inside of your shield to slide back further. i recomend lightshielding when your normal shield doesnt cover your feet/head. then again, if they got it down that much, you shouldnt shield. its good to make powershielding muscle memory, ya know?

 

[ike_love]

ogx has a valid point, it's very hard to follow up roy's aerials into each other if the opponent doesn't already have decent damage. And I'm a big fan of aerials. When trying to rack up damage, not always but most of the time, it's best to use aerials to LEAD into your ground work, dtilt ded grab or tech-chase. It's also a good idea to remember that lite-shielding is also a tactic that everybody should learn to utilize. Just because you know how to powershield, doesn't mean that you'll be able to PS unpredictable moves, so you should have a back-up plan in the case that an opponent does something out of the ordinary.

Also, being that we're on the subject of airs...what do you guys think the best way to cross someone up is.
After-all the best place for roy to be is behind someone, but no one ever seems to pay as much attention to this aspect of the game. Any thoughts?

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i didnt say dont light shield, i said dont abuse it. it can be used as a saftey net, and its good to mix stuff up.
if u want to land in back of them? u can sh nairs and uairs w/o ffing to land in back of them. if they expect a shffled approach and try to sg, u might be able to pressure the shield w/ dtilts and such. they usually make a rash decision and roll. [evil grin] then u can punish the roll w/ an fsmash.

im not sure if his aerials provide enough shield stun to be able to pressure quick enough tho.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Also, being that we're on the subject of airs...what do you guys think the best way to cross someone up is.
After-all the best place for roy to be is behind someone, but no one ever seems to pay as much attention to this aspect of the game. Any thoughts?

I don't see how there's anything particularly beneficial to Roy being behind his opponent. Granted if you approach you don't want to land in front of his shield. But Roy's not really about approaching anyway. He's more of a baiting and poke-pressuring character.

 

[ohgodx]

of course i use f-air spacing, my mistake.

but in my experience, u-aur juggling doesn't always work unless the opponent is at a reasonably high percent, in which case you'd more than likely be trying to land a killing blow instead

but that's just me

 

[TresChikon]

ogx has a valid point, it's very hard to follow up roy's aerials into each other if the opponent doesn't already have decent damage. And I'm a big fan of aerials. When trying to rack up damage, not always but most of the time, it's best to use aerials to LEAD into your ground work, dtilt ded grab or tech-chase. It's also a good idea to remember that lite-shielding is also a tactic that everybody should learn to utilize. Just because you know how to powershield, doesn't mean that you'll be able to PS unpredictable moves, so you should have a back-up plan in the case that an opponent does something out of the ordinary.

Also, being that we're on the subject of airs...what do you guys think the best way to cross someone up is.
After-all the best place for roy to be is behind someone, but no one ever seems to pay as much attention to this aspect of the game. Any thoughts?

Since when does Roy combo?

FH flareblades, fairs, and nairs aren't really all that reliable setups, they're more useful as pokes than anything else. At best it can lead into a tech chase.

But if you were to take away his aerials, it'll be like taking away his f-tilt. Neither of them combo, but are essential to his game.

of course i use f-air spacing, my mistake.

but in my experience, u-aur juggling doesn't always work unless the opponent is at a reasonably high percent, in which case you'd more than likely be trying to land a killing blow instead

but that's just me

U-air works mid percent, and does combo into F-smash semi-reliably

 

[ike_love]

I don't see how there's anything particularly beneficial to Roy being behind his opponent. Granted if you approach you don't want to land in front of his shield. But Roy's not really about approaching anyway. He's more of a baiting and poke-pressuring character.

Let me get an opponents back, and see what happens, lol! Seriously, granted roy does better when his enemies come to him, BUT that doesn't mean you can't EVER approach anyone. I mean, if all the boards can come up with is "space ded and dtilt poke", why do any of you guys even bother posting. Crossing-up opponents is essential to pretty much any fighting game out there, so why wouldn't it be helpful ( especially with a character with not the best frontal assault ) in Smash. Try it out, if it doesn't work...just money match me next time you're in Dallas and show you how nice it is.

Since when does Roy combo?

FH flareblades, fairs, and nairs aren't really all that reliable setups, they're more useful as pokes than anything else. At best it can lead into a tech chase.

But if you were to take away his aerials, it'll be like taking away his f-tilt. Neither of them combo, but are essential to his game.

Ok, right after THAT he says...

U-air works mid percent, and does combo into F-smash semi-reliably

Wow, LOL!

 

[TresChikon]

Dude if you want to troll, whatever, take it somewhere else.

Or at least make it seem like you know what you're talking about, look at the context, "semi-reliably" doesn't mean the same as Marth's combo option that he has from his aerials. You need to get your convictions straight.

Aside from that I'm not going defile this thread with an argument with you. If you want to make it personal feel free to PM