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The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

Mozz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
144
Location
Pittsburgh area, PA
Hey, Nysyarc, I know you live in Nova Scotia, but it would be awesome for you to come to Pittsburgh if possible for the tournament of hope in December. I mean, that team you saw that you say we should of 4 stocked won the whole tournament. You come with a friend who is really good and you'd have the chance to take the tournament easily it looks like, (though blue rogue and lain wrecked singles, with lain giving me the biggest beatdown of my tournament career by far). Also, you'd possibly get to see Nova Scotia's own Sidney Crosby in action if he's back from his concussion if there's a home game the next day for the Penguins if you want to make a weekend of it! I know there's almost no chance of even breaking even if you do, but it'd be FUN!

(stereotypical and shameless baiting of a Canadian with hockey:awesome:
:troll:

yes, that statement deserves both of those emoticons.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
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3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
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1075-0983-2504
Well that'd definitely be cool, but I'm saving up to go to Apex in January. Croi and I are gonna see how we stack up as a team in the big leagues. You should try to go to Apex too, hopefully we can get a massive Ike main turnout.

As odd as it is, I'm actually not a big hockey fan, lol. The only sport I watch on a regular basis is American football. Although fun fact, I actually live in the same town in Nova Scotia that Sidney Crosby is from; every time I come home from work I see the big "Cole Harbour: Home of Sidney Crosby" sign. Actually is a bit annoying considering Cole Harbour was home to several famous people before him, but he's the one who gets his name up everywhere because he's a hockey player, lol.


:248:
 

Kirk

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,495
Location
Arlington Heights, IL
Kirk, mainly what I see is double jumping too early and a few times trying to go for a Fair while recovering when just recovering may have been a better idea. Though I do understand your motives.
The one Fair recovery where I died from it, I forgot I was fast falling, so that's just a derp on my part. I usually don't attackin that situation all the time, but it was working well for some reason.
Other than that, remember not to go into autopilot of jab-grab all the time. Remember jab-Utilt, you missed a kill on Wario in the set against Hunger. You never really missed much on this, but keep in mind grab release to angled up Ftilt on Wario.
Yea I know of ftilt, I was thinking about it mid match too. I was mad when I tripped out of grab release in game 1 against quik so it kinda went over my head at that point lol.

I legitamately did not want to use utilt from jab...I don't like the possibility of shield or powershield to getting punished. I know it works sometimes, its just a habit. Need to work with it in friendlies some more I guess.
It's hard to stop getting juggled once you're juggled, and I'm a victim to this too, but don't air dodge every time.
Who isn't a victim of this lol. There's no safer option, really.
Other people may comment on "OMG DAIR INTO GROUND" but I actually like the way you use it for two reasons. 1) Nair doesn't get a hitbox below you as quickly. 2) Shield push.
Pretty much, most of the times you got punished for it, you would have also been punished for a Nair.
I don't know why everyone just chalks up Dair on the awful-move-list and leaves it there.
One of my BIGGEST habits, for sure. I do think I still use it way too much(its such a good idea at the time, right!?) Shield push is the biggest advantage, but if your opponent has proper reaction, you can still get punished for it. I still would like to work on using it less, but I agree it is not a terrible/awful move to throw out in that situation.
Also, against Quik, your recovery first stock with QD after his fart was kind of ingenious. I've done the same thing many times before, but never from that high, lol. (I also don't know why we think QD recovery is always bad. I use it more than Aether against MK in many situations.)
Another thing I'm a big advocate of. My most used recovery is QD by now I would think. You get used to it when your opponents know how to gimp ike and aether.

Knowing this, you have two options:
-drop below to use aether, high risk of getting hit/gimped and losing your stock.
-QD from higher up back on stage. Expect to take a hit/ get grabbed....but you keep your stock in tact.

Even if you release QD from way high up and fall down from a decent height, you're back on stage and in no risk of getting gimped. And of course there's the additional option with QD to wait it out to a platform or the edge of the stage, reacting to your opponents moves.

Though its also % dependent, if you're in kill percent, the landing lag from QD on stage could potentially get you killed if your opponent can punish...its a judgement call at that point.

...too much QD love?

Toolazytocheckandeditpost/10
:phone:
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
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i'd liked to be critqued here you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSh6uUULS7o
this was my ike not too long ago altough now i've gotten more technical with jab cancels and etc so yeah any help is greatly appreciated :awesome:
Well, if your play style has changed since this video it may not do much to critique it. Also it's better to have a video where you either lose by getting outplayed or win in a very close game. A 2-stock where your opponent SDs his last stock isn't ideal for judging how well you would do against a good player.

I'll point out a few things though:

0:06 - Don't use Aether so that you're forced to land on-stage. You should have been punished for that.

0:26 - Learn to buffer a Dash Attack immediately after using Bthrow for times like this; it's a guaranteed hit around that percent and you could have had Link off-stage easily.

0:38 - Don't use Dair into the ground. See pretty much any of my other critiques in this thread for a plethora of reasons why.

1:07 - Don't get back up on stage here, just hang on to the ledge and let him land on-stage so you get a free hit on him... or in Link's case let him rise above the stage and then helplessly fall past you on the ledge, wishing the entire time his recovery wasn't terrible.

Some general things too, try to stop spot-dodging so much as a reactionary thing. When you spot-dodge, roll or hold your shield it should be exactly what you want to do at that time, not a reflex. Don't use Bair while falling back to the stage so much, it does have pretty bad landing lag. Use a short-hop and Bair at the same time without fast-falling to auto-cancel it.

Otherwise nice use of Nair and Jabs and decent spacing job, keep that up. Don't go for so many Dairs off-stage, it becomes really obvious. An edge-hog would have been fine in a lot of those cases and one time you actually got yourself killed going for a Dair spike. And finally, don't throw out so many random Fairs after you throw or get a Jab, none of them hit and the landing lag can be risky in some match-ups.


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Prince Nero

Smash Cadet
Joined
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72
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Los Angeles
ok awesome man thanks :awesome: i'll be sure to upload a better match sometime thanks again for the tips and i know this sounds stupid but how do you buffer a dash attack? at first i thought you meant bdacus lol
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
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how do you buffer a dash attack?
Well it just means you want to input the Dash Attack (whether by doing tap control stick + A or tap control stick + C-stick down) before the animation for Bthrow ends. Buffering just means inputting something before it can actually happen so that it comes out at the earliest possible moment.

Practice it in training mode, the motion should look fluent from when Bthrow ends and the DA starts, there should be no idle time in between. Some examples that also show how it combos can be seen in this video here, here, here and here. It will combo at a lot of different percents on pretty much every character in the game.


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Tulat

Smash Cadet
Joined
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37
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Spartanburg, South Carolina
Don't spotdodge so much, and don't use quickdraw (side b) as an attack since it lags so much if they block or dodge they can punish you.
That's all I can think of.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
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You want a nice critique? -walks off-
-steps in-

Although really, you should never expect a "nice" critique at the Ike boards, regardless of who's giving it.


I'd liked to get critqued again i haven't been playing brawl much because school started.
here's some of my most recent stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UdueXH7F68
The marth ike mu is pretty hard for me when im ike so any help would be nice please and ty
Sorry I'm late on this one, hope it's still fresh enough.

0:06 - Just so you're aware, at higher percents Marth will get a free upB on you if you try to grab him after he Nairs you; at low percents it doesn't matter but when you're at kill % just hold your shield on after he approaches with Nair.

0:08 - Never throw out a Fair like that as a throw follow-up at such a low percent. Wait it out and see what he does; DA isn't guaranteed at that percent so waiting and getting in some Jabs on a read is better.

0:10 - It may have worked but Counter wasn't your best option there; if he starts to use Dancing Blade from far away from you like that (which he shouldn't be doing), either roll behind him and Jab once he's close enough or hold your shield on and Jab out of shield after the third swing of DB.

0:11 - Make sure to practice pivoting and immediately using Jab for these situations, much better than a dash grab.

0:29 - Don't spot dodge against Marth, pretty much ever. If you hold your shield while he does DB it's free Jabs after the third swing, if you spot dodge you will always get hit.

0:34 - One of the many reasons why it's important to improve your Nair:Fair ratio. If you had done a Nair here instead you would have had plenty of time to Fsmash him, possibly for the KO. As it was, you maybe still had time for an Fsmash, certainly Jabs would have been better than a grab.

0:43 - When Aetherplanking, never use your double jump. If Marth or whoever hits you out of Aether you don't want to be stuck without it for no good reason. Just drop straight down and Aether without double-jumping. You can push back instead of down on the control stick when dropping from the ledge to avoid fast-falling.

0:52 - Input that Bair as soon as you short-hop by using the control stick to jump and the c-stick for Bair. That way it will still hit him on the platform but you'll auto-cancel in case he manages to shield it or so that you can follow it up more easily.

1:00 - Pressure Marth's return with a full-hop Fair here, and make sure you land back on the main stage (without fast-falling) so it auto-cancels. Do it every time you have him in that position, your goal is to bait him into throwing out a Counter one time so you can get a free Fsmash.

1:51 - Dtilt will not work here as long as he recovers properly, which he didn't... so if you'd timed it right it actually would have worked. Just don't expect it to work against a Marth who knows how to snap to the ledge safely.

1:55 - Never delay your Jabs against Marth, even canceling Jab 1 back to Jab 1 can be risky unless you know exactly what you're doing and want to bait an upB or something. Just doing all three Jab hits as fast as possible is your best bet.

2:19 - Huh... I'd like to know how that worked, lol. Looking at Ike's hitbox for Counter that should have hit; I certainly thought it was going to.

2:42 - That's a free Ftilt for the KO right there, you need to always be aware of all your options, especially in clutch situations where you need the KO like that.

2:45 - You can't spike Marth, definitely need to stop trying. The only ways to spike Marth are if he horribly messes up his recovery or if you can get a walk-off Dair or something.

2:58 - When you know that he's tried for the Counter on Aether before, reverse your Aether so it will miss. Also DI that Dancing Blade and Counter up so you're in a better position, it was very possible for you to recover with just your double jump after the DB and to easily recover with Aether after the Counter.

Some general things, don't use Counter so much. The rolling definitely needs to be taken down several notches, rolling is just plain bad. In general use your shield more and spot-dodge/roll less. Jab a lot more, especially to punish; you tend to default to grabbing when you're next to someone and they mess up, change that habit to Jab.

Practice mixing up your recovery against Marth to avoid his Counter shenanigans and work on your DI as well. As Ike, you have to DI 90% of attack upwards, by holding up on the control stick as you're hit. The only moves you don't want to DI upwards are strong vertical KO moves like Fox's Usmash or Snake's Utilt.

Jab and Nair more, do everything else less. Any questions, feel free to ask.


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Prince Nero

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
72
Location
Los Angeles
ahh ok ty for the awesome infoi'll be sure to work on some things :awesome: as for reversing the aether how would i do that?. perhaps turn the other direction before the animation begins?.
 

Senliten

Smash Lord
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ahh ok ty for the awesome infoi'll be sure to work on some things :awesome: as for reversing the aether how would i do that?. perhaps turn the other direction before the animation begins?.
Just press up and the opposite direction you are currently facing. So if you were facing oh say left for instance, you'd want to input 9b, which would be upright +b.
 

Tulat

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Spartanburg, South Carolina
2:19 - Huh... I'd like to know how that worked, lol. Looking at Ike's hitbox for Counter that should have hit; I certainly thought it was going to.
I've noticed about 6 months ago when I use counter sometimes, it actually hits on the very first few frames or so, like it did in this video.
Ike's counter is strange but cool imo since it seems like it counters on the first few frames, stops working, then starts working on later frames.
I thought everyone else knew so I never said anything about it though.
 

Kirk

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,495
Location
Arlington Heights, IL
That video is not 100% accurate anymore, though pretty close...still outdated.

Counter activating when gettng hit in the first 10 frames? Vids or it didn't happen.

:phone:
 

Blubolouis

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Paris, France
I'm posting here a link to a stream of a smashfest that took place this week-end. Nothing will be uploaded on youtube but the stream was saved and the saved data won't be deleted till a week or so.

http://fr.twitch.tv/yami2b/b/295873296
my part starts at around 1:36:00. just some friendlies. (my awesome face is @ 1:56:45, the right one)
I think I understand this match-up (rob) quite well. I missed some easy punishes and got gimped the same way 2 or 3 times but I UNDERSTAND it.

now THIS match-up, the ike-peach (yami style, bsticking and stuff) i do NOT understand. what can I punish? what can't I? how can I space when peach closes up the distance so easily? stuff like that.
http://fr.twitch.tv/yami2b/b/295877035
starting @ around 30 seconds, only 1 match I believe.
Halp?
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
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Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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Most recent vid of my Ike.
Megalodon vs Mink
Alright, I've put this one off too long.

0:08 - Right here you definitely need to not worry about the armor piece, drop down and get some free Jabs or a Nair -> Jabs from that whiffed grab. After you hit her to the right with Jab 3 you can go back for the armor. Always take those opportunities.

0:25 - After spot-dodging that close to someone, be ready to Jab, don't start to jump. Even throw out a Jab 1 defensively, because it'll come out a lot faster than anything you can do in the air.

0:34 - When you Jab someone and you're unsure whether it will hit, make sure to only use Jab 1 and be ready to cancel it into a shield or pivot and Jab the other way or whatever may be needed. In fact when Jabbing someone's shield it's safer to just cancel Jab 1 repeatedly than to do Jab 1 -> Jab 2.

0:58 - This part of the stage, with water and so many ledges, is to your advantage here; you should be playing at least a little more aggressively. Aetherplanking here is fine but try to only do it if you can catch them jumping over a gap and Aetherspike them into the water.

1:03 - Always fast fall your Nairs and make sure you aren't going to land directly next to the person. You should at least make sure you tip the very edge of their shield; that tiny bit of shield push can make all the difference when you have such a great Jab and IASA frames.

1:09 - Not sure why you didn't use Aether there while you were falling, it would have been a free ~20% plus knock her off to the right if you landed on-stage. Always watch for free Aether opportunities.

1:16 - QuickDraw is not the best way to recover from that high in general but definitely not against ZSS due to her stun projectile. What you should have done though, once you had started charging it, was aim to land smooth and auto-cancel on top of that high platform. You definitely had the distance to do it and then you could have surprised her with a pratfall Bair or something. Watch for opportunities to QD onto platforms to recover quickly like that.

1:29 - You have to train yourself to Jab literally as soon as you hear that power shield sound, it should be an instant reaction.

1:38 - Usmash is a really bad idea here when she's at such low percent, especially when you have a stock lead. When you're playing with a lead, stick pretty much entirely to Jabs, Nairs and Bairs; play it safe and rack damage efficiently.

1:45 - You've clearly learned this the hard way but never approach ZSS directly from the front, and never underestimate the range of her attacks. Jump high first and then come down with either a Nair, Fair if you have time or mix it up with an AD followed by Jabs or a grab when you land. Just don't run at her.

1:56 - When Jab-canceling like that pay very close to attention to the position of your opponent relative to you as they SDI, and mix in some Jab 1 -> Jab 1 cancels too. After that third Jab 2 you should have finished with Jab 3 based on where she had SDI'd.

2:07 - :ike: does not approve of Dair into ground.

2:13 - Another thing about the Nairs, definitely short-hop them more. Full-hop Nairs take way too long to end in the air.

2:38 - That was kind of silly, I'm going to guess that the delayed Jab 3s were failed attempts at canceling Jab 2. It happens for sure, and you did the right thing afterwards, Jab 1 is usually the best option after a whiffed Jab 3 because people are thrown off by the IASA frames.

2:41 - When holding the edge like that and your opponent is coming down right above you, do a ledge drop -> double jump Uair or Fair. It would be a free hit in this particular case. Or drop down and Aether, even better if they aren't at KO percent yet.

4:14 - This is a habit that I'm currently working hard to shed, and you should start doing so too; don't empty jump or start to jump unless you have definite reason to. Now, a reason may be as a mindgame, and that's fine, but here you would have been able to quickly dash up and Dtilt spike ZSS for the win had you not jumped. I suppose you still could have made it with a Dair after the double jump too; always fish as hard as you can for a spike when they're in the water.

4:41 - Don't bother standing so close to your opponent in those situations; she has the advantageous spot (beneath you) but there's plenty of time left and you have the percent lead anyways. You have to be able to quickly access the risk of approaching in a certain situation and be willing to wait it out if it's not worth the reward.

4:46 - That QD was a bad idea, and the fact that you did it again after the first one nearly got you KO'd is really bad, lol. I'll take a guess and say maybe you were aiming to land on the umbrellas, but they're too low for it to be worth it in this case, especially when it's a walk-off beneath you.

5:03 - Okay, here's where you managed to fake her out with the double jump, so she moved back out of your Fair range. Now she's fast-falling past the ledge. You need to go for the edge hog here. You had plenty of time to do it and it would have been the game; worst case scenario she does her other recovery move, whatever button input it is... downB? And you punish her for that with an Aether or Uair.

In general, watch your spot dodging habit, you tend to do it way more often than necessary and sometimes just a Jab would do a lot better. Don't full hop your aerials too much, except Fair because it will auto-cancel on a full hop. Fast fall and space your Nairs more carefully, and work on canceling Jab 1 as well as Jab 2.

Overall though, really solid performance; I'm just tougher on people who know what they're doing as far as most things go. Congrats on winning, and keep it up!

@Blubolouis, I'll get to your as soon as I can.


:248:
 
Joined
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aka - Megalodon77


2:07 - :ike: does not approve of Dair into ground.

I don't either.
4:41 - Don't bother standing so close to your opponent in those situations; she has the advantageous spot (beneath you) but there's plenty of time left and you have the percent lead anyways. You have to be able to quickly access the risk of approaching in a certain situation and be willing to wait it out if it's not worth the reward.
I was trying to hit with the part of Fair that hits below Ike. I get people below me while I'm on platforms sometimes.
4:46 - That QD was a bad idea, and the fact that you did it again after the first one nearly got you KO'd is really bad, lol. I'll take a guess and say maybe you were aiming to land on the umbrellas, but they're too low for it to be worth it in this case, especially when it's a walk-off beneath you.
Yeah I think this might have been the worst mistake of the game. I get stubborn sometimes when I want to get back with QD and it nearly cost me the game. The last one I was aiming for the umbrellas.
In general, watch your spot dodging habit, you tend to do it way more often than necessary and sometimes just a Jab would do a lot better. Don't full hop your aerials too much, except Fair because it will auto-cancel on a full hop. Fast fall and space your Nairs more carefully, and work on canceling Jab 1 as well as Jab 2.
Overall though, really solid performance; I'm just tougher on people who know what they're doing as far as most things go. Congrats on winning, and keep it up!
Thanks for the review. I know I was messing up a lot of my ffed aerials. I might have a few games of myself in a few days.
 

Zatchiel

a little slice of heaven 🍰
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwoWyRyLIo&list=PLFD7F9E75648B89AC&index=6 haven't been critiqued in ages since I don't get many opportunities to get replays onto the computer.
0:12-0:17- Lots of unsuccessful jab canceling that could have been followed up by something. I liked the delay you put in eventually, but he didn't need much effort to escape soon. Try finishing the jabs earlier, or delaying them more.

0:22- Ftilt? Unintentional, I'm assuming, but it's just something I'd like to point out. If you were trying to buffer a jab in the opposite direction, hold the opposite direction Ike is facing, let it go, then input jab when you witness the first frame possible. It takes practice to avoid doing Ftilt and Dash Attack in mistake, but it's worth it, definitely.

1:04- What prompted you to use Dtilt? If anything, you should have focused on getting off of that platform. This led to your loss of first stock, apparently.

1:37- Why Aether? You could have baited something on Snake's decent and punished with something of more use. Aether is not that good when used onstage.

3:15- If he teched that, it would have been your SD of stock as far as I could see. Although it'd seem unlikely from your opponent, the possibility is always present, so don't take it lightly and throw yourself a whole stock for the possibility of a KO, which would have been the game.

Anyway, you're a really good player, and seem pretty competent with Ike overall. I'm impressed. Try to make more use of Nair, especially when the opponent is playing too hard into their approach. That Snake could have made some better choices to affect the outcome of the match as a whole. Again, not bad, I dig.
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
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Denton, Texas (Dallas)
It was getting way too easy to predict a single SH Nair from you. You took soooo much from PK fire because of that.
Also, when you get hit by PK fire... SDI out. Don't just sit in it.
 

Blubolouis

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
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Paris, France
Thanks for the input.

Yeah I didn't notice that he got me several times with a simple PK fire on my my nair approaches. I should work on realizing stuff like that quicker.
About the SDI: it's so hard without smash Cstick D:
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
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Nov 30, 2008
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Denton, Texas (Dallas)
About the SDI: it's so hard without smash Cstick D:
Not really. Just quarter circle with your control stick. And with PK fire and the like, try to get the first input right as it first hits you. You will pop out of it fast. It's not hard, I promise. You're trying to make yourself believe it's hard because you're at a disadvantage without the c-stick. It isn't that bad. I promise.
 
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