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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Likeness a single sentence basically critiques all of your videos:

Stop putting your body in front of your sword

EDIT:

Why are you so predictable off the ledge against that GW? You're always coming up with an attack/ledgehop and you got punished hard. Furthermore your recovery was always the same: aim as low as possible, which means the GW could just dair you and get away with it. You're always moving towards GW and not throwing up the shield enough, shield stops Dair and Bair cold b/c UpB OOS and forces him to use poke moves like DTilt or try and get a grab, both of which are telegraphed and can be punished by a retreating Fair or a retreat -> Dtilt.
 

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Could someone who is able to record that is able to record able to play a few matches against my Marth? I think I'm pretty bad with him so I'd like to improve.
 

GPEternity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
271
Location
Bay Area, CA
eh, wifi gayness is gay. try looking up brawlers in your city.

Likeness101 vs GW

:07 hahahaha what was that? Don’t jump right into his dair, if you do make sure you space your attack so you hit him out of it.

:09 spacing is your friend. Therefore, you should space your self so you don’t get caught 1 foot away from him and hammered. Also, you shouldn’t be so hasty to begin with.

:12 dancing blade is your friend also. Marth has a good grab range but its not as long as his sword is. DB combo would have done about 14% here as opposed to whatever you would have gotten off a grab and the punishment you took as a result of that dsmash.

:16 it looks like you tried to bair him, but you didn’t space whatever you were going for.

:32 could have gotten him with a fair and knocked him further out.

:48 you were doing well until whatever that was. DB leaves you vulnerable, should have dropped a little lower and upB’d to the ledge instead.

:57 Dancing blade….

1:00 see. Dancing blade =D although you didn’t choose the best of spots to use it. It works well.

1:05 that was a free (insert move here) just now with the whiffed fsmash in opposite direction. Punish.

1:06 hey look another one, but why are you all the way over there. You’re sword isn’t 30 feet long.

1:10 jump/airdodging what? I see another whiffed fsmash you could have punished.

1:15 …self mindfuk…you had no business going out after him in that situation. Least you could have done was land on the platform, instead you put yourself in a position where marth is horrendously weak.

1:16 drop off the ledge to avoid attacks, double jump into punish.

1:18 lag from fair causes you to get daired.

1:22 you die at 28

1:35 brawl has no hitstun, especially on the ground. You could have easily shielded, db, ds, or jabbed him out of that fsmash.

1:37 rolling at him could have turned out horribly, especially since you’re above him.

1:41 land too far from the edge, landed closer and you would have gotten that fair in, also may have had a chance to fsmash ftilt for gimp/kill

1:43 land too close to the edge. Little further and you would had a free punish off the ledge attack.

1:48 DB or tipper fsmash may have killed him here.

1:52 a good read with the counter, but better spacing would have killed him off killed him off the side instead of hitting him back to the stage

1:58 you landed on the platform once so you should have your double jump, which you could have used to get at him off the first dair, instead you get hit by the second.

2:05 shield

2:07 dtilt might have worked here has he fell below the edge

2:13 DS earlier to get away from that dair.

2:20 your sword is longer than your *****. Don’t get so close

2:21 dancing blade > grabbing wrong direction

2:25 again with the dair, should have done a nair or fair on the ledge hop instead, you would have been able to recover to the edge faster and avoided having to deal with the dair to begin with.

2:28 …..dair game.


Not gonna watch the rest since i have a faint idea how they're gona go. you get way too close and don't abuse the tip of your blade, granted yoshi's uneven floors are a pain to deal with. you are predictable with your recovery mix up the timing on your upB to keep him guessing about when to dair. i think he got you with all but 2 dairs, thats quite accurate mostly because you're a predictable target. have you considered at trying to wall tech them at least so you can upB to the edge before he recovers from dair lag? you are hasty and don't go with the flow and take control of the situation. you often overshoot or overestimate marth's abilities or overreact and don't punish appropriately. the match would have been much MUCH closer if you simply thought about what he might try and what he is doing as well as using dancing blade and tilting more.

edit: I stand corrected, you do a good job pwnting PT, but the dair is not the spike it used to be, probably would have pulled the 3 stock if you kept it simple with the fairs. you're spacing and patience seems to improve drastically in this match, more comfortable against PT than GW?

Your patience and spacing is also much better against Rob, although he liked to play around off the stage a lot and let you take advantage of the fact that he needed to land eventually. he also approached you quite a bit instead of camping you with gyro, laser, spotdodge->dsmash. you do a good job ledge guarding and juggling in general but also remember that if attack closer to the ground you can use fair and uair as bait to draw a reaction and ff cancel it into an appropriate smash/tilt, you don't always need to fight high above or off the stage to get results so mix it up a bit.

your general play against PT and Rob shows that the trauncing you got from GW was undeserved.
 

VGSteve

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Canada
Not going to let you guys have all the fun, I think I'll start critiquing, please let me know if this sounds reasonable. Kneeslash this is your match.

:30 Watch that dash attack, it’s too risky to use in most situations and you got punished for it.

:34 You missed a DB and you keep DBing? And you used the laggiest version, cut your DB short if you miss and reevaluate the situation and go from there, but if you miss the first shot, don’t expect your opponent to roll back into it.

:41 Noble attempt, but that usually only works from 0-4%.

:43 Dash attack

1:22 That Dair wasn’t really going anywhere.

1:42 You missed that DS, and as a result you were punished and you lost a stock.

2:11 Beautiful Stage Spike!

2:48 you should have followed through with the DB.

2:52 Nice shield break, too bad the second SB didn’t go anywhere, but you got some fast damaged there.

2:57 Nice second shield break, try to tipper that smash, don’t freak out, but learn Marth’s tipper range.

3:55 Spent a little too much screwing around with the ledge, and ultimately you got punished for missing the Dair. You lose your second stock.

5:05 Missed a counter, you got lucky a few times but this time you got punished.

5:29 Missed another Dair, you lose your last stock.

tl;dr: You F-Smash, a lot, I didn't count, but you definately miss more than you hit. F-smash is a tool, but you shouldn't rely on it all the time. You seem to have trouble spacing, and this can be seen with your reckless use of Dair. You didn't land a single spike, and if it isn't working, stop using it. Other than that, you make a few careless mistakes, but all in all you aren't that bad, but you need to spend some time learning Marth's range and refining your technique.
 

BBoyindo

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
672
Location
Hilversum, The Netherlands
VGSteve i'd like to add some things.
To kneeslash:
Ok i watched your match several times, and i saw some things you really have to improve on.
1. Fair? Where was it? Dude fair is your best move and your best approach, use it, without it you wont get good.
2. Dancing blade is not an approach, it's a punisher. Also finish your combo's.
3. Dtilt is your best weapon against sheik, use it! Pressure with it! Wall with it! trap with it! gimp with it! Win with it!
4. No dash attack.
5. For now, no dair. Once you got the basics down you can learn gimping with dair.
6. Less Fsmash. Use it as a punisher at high% For the rest punish with Dancing Blade.

You need to get the basics down, i advise you to read Ulevo's guide on Marth. You can find it in the stickies, under the Marth guides.
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
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I have to get back on my critique streak (ooo that rhymes.)

Eh, sometime this week, so **** busy -_- Good stuff from everyone else!
 

Kneeslash

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
36
Location
New York
Thanks guys that helps me out a lot. I am surprised on how much I used the fsmash, I mean ABUSED. And the i have no idea why i didn't use my fair, i tend to use it way too much (if thats possible).
 

Yokipi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
39
Would anyone be willing to help me with my Marth? I'll be happy with a full analysis or just a general one, anything to help me improve.
Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU7-PeS3YRo
Please turn off or just ignore the sound; I forgot to take it off.

I'm not sure if this is a good video because my friend didn't play that well, and I usually don't win. So it was a rather unusual match. Still, it was the best of the ones that managed to get recorded. I know I'm horrible, but that's why I posted here for help. =P
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
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Would anyone be willing to help me with my Marth? I'll be happy with a full analysis or just a general one, anything to help me improve.
Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU7-PeS3YRo
Please turn off or just ignore the sound; I forgot to take it off.

I'm not sure if this is a good video because my friend didn't play that well, and I usually don't win. So it was a rather unusual match. Still, it was the best of the ones that managed to get recorded. I know I'm horrible, but that's why I posted here for help. =P
Critique: Yokipi

Ok when I return I shall do a detailed analysis. But already I saw that your roll excessively. This is bad, because Marth's roll is easily punishable. Next, you have to learn to speed up your game and go review the match-ups. Now that I mention it, your punishing skills are... sub par. You need to DB and grab more. Did you know one grab at high percents on lucas = death? (I'm refering to Grab Release --> Dsmash) another thing is your too... forgivig. You barely edgegaurd, and you don't keep on the prssure. Your Marth is a little bit below beginner, so keep at the matches, read the stickies, and improve.
 

GPEternity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
271
Location
Bay Area, CA
Critique: Yokipi

Ok when I return I shall do a detailed analysis. But already I saw that your roll excessively. This is bad, because Marth's roll is easily punishable. Next, you have to learn to speed up your game and go review the match-ups. Now that I mention it, your punishing skills are... sub par. You need to DB and grab more. Did you know one grab at high percents on lucas = death? (I'm refering to Grab Release --> Dsmash) another thing is your too... forgivig. You barely edgegaurd, and you don't keep on the prssure. Your Marth is a little bit below beginner, so keep at the matches, read the stickies, and improve.

All that and also:

Less dash attack
More shield
Less smashing
More tilts
More walking
More SH over his PKFire
More aggression, but controlled agression
More taking advantage of his long recovery time
Grab -> Pummel Release -> Regrab until he breaks away too far for regrab -> Tipper Dsmash
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
ozz i only watched a little bit of the first match but you really need to pressure pit more

the beginning you kept running away where he could have been shooting arrows at you. you outrange him, id recommend aggroing and maintaining your zoning, pit can't do much vs it if you do it properly
 

Shin Ike

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
18
Location
San Antonio, Tx
These are my two Marth videos, can you give me critiques please. Constructive criticism is much appreciated:

vs DDD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUbwsYyC7nw


vs Pokemon Trainer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb5ZByQV3Kg
Well from watching the D3 match i'd simply like to point out that you could have spaced alot better throughout that entire match. You also kept doing this annoying thing where you would jump in, then double jump backwards, and try to close in while landing with a fair to try and fake him out or something. You got punished for that almost every time by getting grabbed. Also, i personally use more nairs when up against a D3 than i do most other characters.
 

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
Joined
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0302-1081-8167
These are my two Marth videos, can you give me critiques please. Constructive criticism is much appreciated:

vs DDD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUbwsYyC7nw


vs Pokemon Trainer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb5ZByQV3Kg
I watched the first one against D3.

0:05- You have to make sure you are perfectly spacing your fairs against D3. Or you will get chain grabbed.
0:10- Again, if you are going to hit D3's shield with a fair you absolutely have to space it well.
0:15- You randomly fsmashed, you got punished for it. Only use fsmash when you know it will hit or you yourself are punishing. You fsmash again a few seconds after this, you can't be doing that.
0:31- You have a guaranteed tipper fsmash after the second fthrow, just a heads up.
0:39- Usmash or counter when he falls on you during his recovery. What you did wasn't necessarily bad, but you had some better options.
0:42- Use DB to punish, not as an approach.
0:48- Gordo is gay, but you could have airdodged it. Be weary and keep your eyes peeled, even if its just a regualar waddle dee you cant afford to be taking damage in this game.
1:01- Nice spacing and nice kill.
1:05- It'd be stupid and redundant for me to keep saying this so I'll make it the last time. Space your fairs better or you'll get CGed.
1:34- Avoid using DDB4 (Down Dancing Blade, 4th series) as it is highly punishable and easy to DI out of.
2:04- You gotta know how long that DA hitbox stays out, you shouldnt be getting hit by that.
2:37- Avoid him when he still has invincibility
2:44- Usmash instead
3:01- Finish your DBs when they hit, just take the damage and don't try anything gimmicky.
3:33- Learn your options when your opponent is above you like that, bait an airdodge and punish.
4:43- Mix up your recovery, it seems like you always recover the same way.
5:01- Gotta airdodge or counter in that situation when you know you will die if you get hit.

Overall, I like your Marth. You're doing pretty good so far. Your biggest problems are spacing and occasionally move choice. You also have some trouble with recovery so look at all your optoins and try to mix it up. Try using a lot of nair against D3, it works wonders. I understand that this matchup is really hard, but you can make it easier for yourself if you fix these mistakes.
 

Vickey

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
41
Location
RGV & Brownytowny, Texas <3
I watched the first one against D3.

0:05- You have to make sure you are perfectly spacing your fairs against D3. Or you will get chain grabbed.
0:10- Again, if you are going to hit D3's shield with a fair you absolutely have to space it well.
0:15- You randomly fsmashed, you got punished for it. Only use fsmash when you know it will hit or you yourself are punishing. You fsmash again a few seconds after this, you can't be doing that.
0:31- You have a guaranteed tipper fsmash after the second fthrow, just a heads up.
0:39- Usmash or counter when he falls on you during his recovery. What you did wasn't necessarily bad, but you had some better options.
0:42- Use DB to punish, not as an approach.
0:48- Gordo is gay, but you could have airdodged it. Be weary and keep your eyes peeled, even if its just a regualar waddle dee you cant afford to be taking damage in this game.
1:01- Nice spacing and nice kill.
1:05- It'd be stupid and redundant for me to keep saying this so I'll make it the last time. Space your fairs better or you'll get CGed.
1:34- Avoid using DDB4 (Down Dancing Blade, 4th series) as it is highly punishable and easy to DI out of.
2:04- You gotta know how long that DA hitbox stays out, you shouldnt be getting hit by that.
2:37- Avoid him when he still has invincibility
2:44- Usmash instead
3:01- Finish your DBs when they hit, just take the damage and don't try anything gimmicky.
3:33- Learn your options when your opponent is above you like that, bait an airdodge and punish.
4:43- Mix up your recovery, it seems like you always recover the same way.
5:01- Gotta airdodge or counter in that situation when you know you will die if you get hit.

Overall, I like your Marth. You're doing pretty good so far. Your biggest problems are spacing and occasionally move choice. You also have some trouble with recovery so look at all your optoins and try to mix it up. Try using a lot of nair against D3, it works wonders. I understand that this matchup is really hard, but you can make it easier for yourself if you fix these mistakes.
Thanks a lot for all these tips, i really appreciate it , so i just want to know since i noticed my approaches suck, should i approach with grabs and nairs??
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
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Syracuse, NY
I'd like you to check the following video. http://files.filefront.com/SinoKirby+vs+JumpmanMarth/;13379663;/fileinfo.html

I know I made some mistakes, but I'd appreciate some more general tips. My style is really defensive and flawed. So thanks in advance. By the way, this was a friendly and I just started playing Marth.
Umm if that's a Filefront download (I don't remember them allowing streams on their site) then would you mind uploading it to Youtube or so?
 

Scott!

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
1,575
Location
The Forest Temple
Thanks a lot for all these tips, i really appreciate it , so i just want to know since i noticed my approaches suck, should i approach with grabs and nairs??
Well, it's probably not a great idea to always do the same thing. I watched the first vid (loading the second as I type), and you always approached with a full hop to double jump to fair. It was really predictable, and every time you did it, you were CG'd, as was mentioned above. Fair isn't necessarily a bad approach, but try to avoid using all of your jumps first. Running in to grab is a good thing to mix in, especially if you've conditioned them to shield and punish. Nair is good too. Just mix it up, and never do the same thing over and over again. Also, don't do dash attack unless you are completely sure it will hit, because otherwise, you will be shielded and punished.

I also noticed in that vid that you used your double jump very early when recovering a lot. I recommend holding on to it if you don't need to use it, since it gives you more options to get past Dedede's off-stage options (and others too).

Okay, now I'm on the PT vid. At around 0:38-0:40, you recover and land right next to Ivy as it upsmashes. You weren't hit, but it still seems risky to land right there. At around 1:20, you counter in midair, and then get edgehogged. Unless you are positive the counter will hit, don't do it. DB makes for a good stalling move if they try to edge hog you, and could have saved you here, I think. I liked the Upsmash at 2:23. Didn't expect it. You're getting hit by Rock Smash a lot too; watch out. Towards the end, you seem to space your fairs better than you were in the Dedede vid. Too bad about the end, though I think DB would have saved you again. Not too bad at all, but there's definitely room for improvement.
 

Vickey

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
41
Location
RGV & Brownytowny, Texas <3
Well, it's probably not a great idea to always do the same thing. I watched the first vid (loading the second as I type), and you always approached with a full hop to double jump to fair. It was really predictable, and every time you did it, you were CG'd, as was mentioned above. Fair isn't necessarily a bad approach, but try to avoid using all of your jumps first. Running in to grab is a good thing to mix in, especially if you've conditioned them to shield and punish. Nair is good too. Just mix it up, and never do the same thing over and over again. Also, don't do dash attack unless you are completely sure it will hit, because otherwise, you will be shielded and punished.

I also noticed in that vid that you used your double jump very early when recovering a lot. I recommend holding on to it if you don't need to use it, since it gives you more options to get past Dedede's off-stage options (and others too).

Okay, now I'm on the PT vid. At around 0:38-0:40, you recover and land right next to Ivy as it upsmashes. You weren't hit, but it still seems risky to land right there. At around 1:20, you counter in midair, and then get edgehogged. Unless you are positive the counter will hit, don't do it. DB makes for a good stalling move if they try to edge hog you, and could have saved you here, I think. I liked the Upsmash at 2:23. Didn't expect it. You're getting hit by Rock Smash a lot too; watch out. Towards the end, you seem to space your fairs better than you were in the Dedede vid. Too bad about the end, though I think DB would have saved you again. Not too bad at all, but there's definitely room for improvement.
I understand, yeah i think i know what to do for next time haha but dont get all entirely sad atleast i beat this guy with my fox (secondary) Vickey (Fox) vs Magik (Pokemon Trainer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-iKUgVNAUE ;)
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
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Critique:-Jumpman-

Ok your Marth is decent, just a few spacing errors here and there, nothing you can't patch up with practice. However, your spacing errors caused you to jump into the **** a lot, which caused your stocks aswell. Finally, around kill percents you get impatient, and predictable. Don't spam yor smashes and UpB, it's easily baitable.
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7neHl0ta1E

I found this vid on you tube I'm OBV marth. Feedback would be nice. Thanks in advanced
Critique: AlMoStLeGeNdArY

0:22 - I'm guessing you got Wi-Fi gayed, but two whiffed jabs = punishment.

0:31 - Ok your just flailing around, getting in lucky hits. Your spacing is really bad right now, your body is landing where the tip should be. Lucky you don't get punished.

0:44 - Umm, airdodge? Evade??? **** jumping.

0:48 - Nice SD, I guess a button slip.

1:12 - A DB would've sent him further and did more damage, Learn2punish.

1:15 - You've rolled behind him, ok. You have the advantage, and you whiff it to the opposite direction? Then you whiff another one, and you get owned.

1:19 - Refer to 0:44.

1:24 - Your getting way to reckless dude. Once again, your spacing is way off, and you get lucky.

1:39 - A Uair would've worked wonders here. But you just... let him stay on top of you.

2:01 - He returns WAY to comfortably and easily. Pressure him offstage, it *****. You then proceed to keep rolling backwards, giving him stage control. That's bad.

2:11 - Dude -_-

2:35 - Dudddeeeee -_- You roll right into a warlock punch, a WARLOCK PUNCH. End game.

Man that was... bad. Your roll and run away WAY too much. It should be illegal! This cause a lot of punishing and loss of stocks. Next, i'm sorry to say, maybe it was the Wi-Fi, but, oyur spacing I was atrocious. Your body was where your sword should connect, and you literally landed in vey unsafe positions. This led too..... jumping into the ****! man you got punished bad. You really need to work on spacing and acing yourself. This will save your *** the most. Finally, you are a typical case of FSS, commonly known as the FSmash Syndrome. You probably whiffed over 10 this match, and this also caused your punishment when you were trying to punish. Fsmash is not Marth universal punishing tool, it's DB. Good luck~
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

Smash Hero
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almostlegendary
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Critique: AlMoStLeGeNdArY

0:22 - I'm guessing you got Wi-Fi gayed, but two whiffed jabs = punishment.

0:31 - Ok your just flailing around, getting in lucky hits. Your spacing is really bad right now, your body is landing where the tip should be. Lucky you don't get punished.

0:44 - Umm, airdodge? Evade??? **** jumping.

0:48 - Nice SD, I guess a button slip.

1:12 - A DB would've sent him further and did more damage, Learn2punish.

1:15 - You've rolled behind him, ok. You have the advantage, and you whiff it to the opposite direction? Then you whiff another one, and you get owned.

1:19 - Refer to 0:44.

1:24 - Your getting way to reckless dude. Once again, your spacing is way off, and you get lucky.

1:39 - A Uair would've worked wonders here. But you just... let him stay on top of you.

2:01 - He returns WAY to comfortably and easily. Pressure him offstage, it *****. You then proceed to keep rolling backwards, giving him stage control. That's bad.

2:11 - Dude -_-

2:35 - Dudddeeeee -_- You roll right into a warlock punch, a WARLOCK PUNCH. End game.

Man that was... bad. Your roll and run away WAY too much. It should be illegal! This cause a lot of punishing and loss of stocks. Next, i'm sorry to say, maybe it was the Wi-Fi, but, oyur spacing I was atrocious. Your body was where your sword should connect, and you literally landed in vey unsafe positions. This led too..... jumping into the ****! man you got punished bad. You really need to work on spacing and acing yourself. This will save your *** the most. Finally, you are a typical case of FSS, commonly known as the FSmash Syndrome. You probably whiffed over 10 this match, and this also caused your punishment when you were trying to punish. Fsmash is not Marth universal punishing tool, it's DB. Good luck~
I don't really get the spacing thing. I know i'm supposed to hit with the tip of my sword however, I don't want to right. @ 2: 01 I didn't want what happened @ 2:11 to happen. Or if I attempt a Dair basically me killing my self so I don't even try. I could of sworn he was facing the other way with the punch. I fail @brawl =/.
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
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It's not that you fail, Wi-Fi can SERIOUSLY through off you perception and make you reflexes go haywire. I'm a known case.

Go into practice mode, whiff all the attacks you desire. This will help you get the feel for all his movements. Then, go to the lvl 3's, and learn at which distance what moves tip and so. Then attempt Wi-Fi, or find some friends. Then, make some appearances at tourneys. There, 1 way path to improvement, with some gaps in between (filled courtesy of the SSBB - Marth Boards.
 
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