Mr. Escalator
G&W Guru
You're wrong Kitamerby. There is a small windbox on Falco's jab.
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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
- Status
When the Sonics did that, we got a gross over exaggeration. +8 is only brag-fodder.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
End of his hands so he has good range and spacing on Ike in ALL regards.
Gindler
Smash Champion
You act like ness vs. D3 is horrible for ness (40-60 being unwinnable is new to me). Ness is fairly good at staying away from D3's grab.
And he said big whoop because it was POOLS and he probably made it out of the pools reguardless if he loses to a good ness.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Certainly! I was just saying that I think Ganon has a higher chance of winning a tournament, although they both have practically zero chance. Let's face it: the only chance either of them have is that every opponent they run into doesn't know the match-up, and in that case, Ganon would win more matches because even though he isn't as good a character, you actually have to know what you're doing to fight one.
Take ZSS for instance. She isn't as good as ANY S tier character, but you have to know how to fight her or you're going to lose.
FaWa
Smash Apprentice
First of all: Yes, Ness is lower then he should be, but he shouldn't be raised more then 3 or 4 spots; he's not that good.
Second: Just because a good Ness player beat a good DDD player doesn't mean Ness goes up 10 spots. As mush as I'd want Ness to go up that much, he won't based on one match.
Conclusion : Ness is underanked, but not by much. (Similar to Jigglypuff or PT)
Second: Just because a good Ness player beat a good DDD player doesn't mean Ness goes up 10 spots. As mush as I'd want Ness to go up that much, he won't based on one match.
Conclusion : Ness is underanked, but not by much. (Similar to Jigglypuff or PT)
Palpi
Smash Hero
It is the gimmick aspect of the fight, like when Snakee beat m2k first round then got rizaped the next 2 rounds.
edit; I am scared of ness. :embarrass
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Can people please stop saying A tier, B tier, whatever. It would make it easier to understand if you said Top tier, High tier, Middle tier, etc. And Gheb, how many characters would you place in top tier (S tier)? I only have MK and Snake in Top tier.When will people realize that Lucario and Pit are A-Tier characters whereas G&W and Kirby are not?
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
We didn't have any of this A tier, B tier crap in melee's tier list. So why brawl? For someone who is new to the game, they may think S tier is the worst, since it doesn't go in alphabetical order. But whatever, I'm thinking of a new standard now actually...
I think Middle tier should be one big tier altogether. With both C and D tier combined together to make it just C tier.
I made 6 tiers instead of 7, cause I felt like both C and D tier can both compete against each other fairly well, to a certain degree in competition. However, they are still ranked in order. Here's an example with my tier list.
Tier 1 (Galaxy) God Tier.
Meta Knight 10.0
Snake 9.9
Tier 2 (Moon) Top Tier.
Diddy Kong 9.7
Wario 9.6
Falco 9.5
King Dedede 9.4
Marth 9.3
Pikachu 9.2
Ice Climbers 9.1
Tier 3 (Sky) High Tier.
Mr. Game & Watch 8.9
Olimar and Pikmin 8.7
Zero Suit Samus 8.6
Toon Link 8.4
Pit 8.3
ROB 8.2
Lucario 8.1
Kirby 8.0
Tier 4 (Mountain) Middle Tier.
Donkey Kong 7.9
Peach 7.8
Luigi 7.7
Squirtle 7.6 (Independent.)
Fox 7.5
Wolf 7.4
Zelda/Shiek 7.2(Used as both)
Squirtle Trainer 7.0 (70% Squirtle. 25% Charizard. 5% Ivysaur.)
Shiek 6.8
Ness 6.7
Lucas 6.6
Charizard Trainer 6.5 (70% Charizard. 25% Squirtle. 5% Ivysaur.)
Sonic 6.4
Charizard 6.2 (Independent.)
Pokemon Trainer 6.2 (Balanced. All 3 pokemon used equally.)
Bowser 6.1
Tier 5 (Earth) Low Tier.
Yoshi 5.9
Zelda 5.8
Ike 5.7
Ivysaur Trainer 5.6 (70% Ivysaur. 25% Squirtle. 5% Charizard.)
Mario 5.5
Samus 5.3
Jigglypuff 5.1
Ivysaur 5.0 (Independent)
Tier 6 (Underground) Bottom Tier.
Captain Falcon 4.9
Link 4.7
Ganondorf 4.4
Popo 4.2
Nana 4.2
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
How can you separate Nana and Popo, and not have Solimar?
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Because Solimar's a playstyle choice, Popo or Nana alone is when they got separated and the other climber got *****.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,632
sopo does not = nana AI
and playing zelda alone is a playstyle and is still counted.
solimar is playstyle and therefore should be counted
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
There have been moments where Olimar loses all his Pikmin. I've certainly seen it happen.
Is there a single person who actually intentionally uses Olimar without Pikmin intentionally for any period of time? Neither popo/nana/solimar should have their own tier list placement.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
And playing Zelda or sheik alone should not be counted, but that's a major rant right there, however, realistically there's a great deal more that must be put into playing Zelda/Sheik then solimar alone in terms of learning the characters, and changing is a great deal more intensive.
Also, you choice whether you control nana or popo based on your IC color.
Those are counted in the olimar match-up, solimar is only when you refuse to pluck pikmin.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
I'd just like to say one thing
Squirtle is the worst out of the three
Squirtle is the worst out of the three
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
You guys have clearly forgotten that CaliburChamp's tier list is the best because he put work and a lot of thought into it. Stop questioning it.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Nolimar's Ftilt and Nair can actually kill....when fresh....at really high %s...
Magik0722
Smash Champion
usually in nolimar dittos ftilt is the KOing move at around 175-200%
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
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- 6,860
Yes, but you can just hold down and shield the second hit... not that solimar can do anything out of shield, haha.
:X
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I think it was a "true potential" measuring, basically he was measuring them on a ratio scale, and using them, ranked them on an ordinal one.
zeldspazz
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,432
Gindler
Smash Champion
He can Nair...............Maybe Dtilt if you're awesome enough.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
It's kind of common for an IC main to be separated from Nana. Therefore I put them as individuals too. Solimar would actually be in his own separate tier... useless tier. Far below bottom tier, lol. You can't KO til very high % and you can't recover. With Solimar it's not common for Olimar to be Pikmin less, he can instantly pluck Pikmin. I never saw one match in my life where Olimar was Pikminless. But once Nana dies, you can't get her back until your next stock, that's the difference. That's why I didn't put Sololimar on my tier list.
I thought so too, so then I tested it out. I played Solo Popo, and Ganon. I won more games with Ganon than with Solo Popo. Then I found out why. Solo Popo is too weak to beat anyone that is at low %. If Nana dies when your opponent is at high %, then your more likely to get a stock off your opponent with Solo Popo, but if your opponent is at 0% and you lose Nana, your not going to take a stock off your opponent, it will take too long to get your opponent to kill %. Ganon doesn't have that problem. Ganon is slightly better than Solo Popo. And I studied up on Solo Popo and Ganon on smashboards before I actually tested them out. Even with Solo Popo chain grab Ganon is still better, the chaingrab is really weak and only lasts til the edge of the stage.
I put numbers there to tell how far apart the characters are to each other on the tier list.
Example: 5.0-5.9 is Low tier.
8.0-8.9 is High tier.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Does anyone else see a huge problem with that?
Dthrow CG > Fsmash at edge > edgeguard
blizzard camp those you can, approach carefully, juggle well.
tl;dr
get better
Noraa
Smash Lord
what does tl;dr mean?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
it means too long; didn't read
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
If by "average himself multiple times" you mean pull numbers straight out of his ***, then yes he did. I'll give him that he put some though into the tier placement and the order of the characters though.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Actually, I dunno about that.
CG's good, but Ganon's edguarding is a great deal more effectively because going off-stage is more likely to go bad due to pretty much only being able to recover above the stage.
Blizzard is a lot less safe without the second climber due to pretty much anyone with a hitbox under their hurtbox will be able to hit you out on reaction. I can see juggling though.
TL;DR: I wouldn't be quite so sure, needs more research and practical match-ups against the cast.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
And... Ganon can side b tech chase to edge, and edge guard better than a Solo Popo can. Ganon can tipman Up-air edge guard or D-air, or F-air, or even Down+B while initated on stage. Solo Popo only has F-air, D-air makes him fast fall and lasts long, N-air, and B-air, overall Ganon has the better edge guarding options, and can actually edge guard farther away from the stage than Solo Popo. Solo Popo Blizzard is easy to get around, and it has less hit stun with only one Ice Climber. Oh yeah, and F-air doesn't spike when there is only 1 IC, you need Nana for that, Solo Popo gimp game and edge guard game are severly lacking. Though, Solo Popo can juggle opponent's better than Ganon can, their Up-air is one of their best moves. That's one thing you got right.
Get more experience points to level up sir.
FaWa
Smash Apprentice
It's odvious that Ganon>Sopo or Soana.
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