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The OMG FiZZ is back Stupendous "Critique my Lucario" Thread

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Zucco

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quick tips

stop using upsmash in this matchup. Theres only one use for that move against d3 and that can be seen in one of RJs vids against atomsk. Its too laggy and unsafe, not to mention the hitbox is terrible.

You need to camp D3 more. Time him out if you must. D3 just waits for your approaches, its his lunch. Platform camping is very important in this MU.

Fullhop more. Although I didnt think this at first, Fullhop fair is so much better than shorthop against d3.

Pivot Fsmash alot more. It might not seem like much, but the distance you get really does help. Most of the time you can roll out of the way from danger after the pivot fsmash. Perfect spaced Pivot Fsmash will outrange D3's ftilt and hit him, keep that in mind.

Switch up your style more. If you keep trading your fair for D3's Bair, than you need to stop and think of some other way to get in.

hope this helps.


edit: KirbyXTouhou= one amazing song.
 

culexus・wau

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I'll keep what you said about usmash in mind. I think its a underrated anti-air [I've beaten DDD Dair with it before, no kidding] but I guess I shouldn't use it as much [except vs upb, I guess].

I'm a % ***, so if I'm not in the lead and my opponent is adept at powershielding I feel as if I have no choice but to approach :<

is this wrong?

I didn't know pivot fsmash will beat out D3's ftilt, I'm assuming when you say pivot fsmash you mean the backwards pivot correct?

I'll see what I can do with this advice.

and if you want the brstm, hit me up for it <3
 

Zucco

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A match is 8 minutes long. use that time wisely. Try and learn some habits your opponent has and adjust accordling.

Yes backwards pivot. I never use Forward pivot since I'm pretty good at spacing it. The timing and spacing is really tigh to beat it, but its doable for sure.

I found the song on youtube. I can make it if I need to, but I dont know what ill do with it yet lol.
 

solecalibur

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Need a gauge on how I am with Lucario as my 2ndary here is some friendlies with my friend last night (FP and Counter where suppose to be timed mind games that gave me time to react but make him charge me but most of them ended up bad)

#1 Solecalibur (Lucario) vs Sil (ROB) [1/3]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-jQ5uKmtqw

#2 Solecalibur (Lucario) vs Sil (ROB) [2/3]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDakvatcOKo

#3 Solecalibur (Lucario) vs Sil (ROB) [3/3]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6xo0whzqaA

Any suggestions?

(Correct thread??)
 

Kitamerby

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First thing I noticed, Sole.
You had a lot of opportunities to charge sphere, but you didn't. Against pretty much everyone in the cast but maybe Falco, Fox, and Wolf (and even then you should charge it sometimes), you should always keep a sphere charged. ROB's reflector is too slow and punishable to be used regularly without serious risk. In all honesty, the only time you SHOULDN'T be charging your sphere if you don't have one is if ROB is up in the air above you, which means you should be out there juggling him(and even then if he's high enough where it won't matter, you should charge a spurt or two). Hilariously, I noticed that you often did the exact opposite of this, and a few times when ROB was high in the air, you ran away to charge the sphere or attempt to camp.

Second thing I noticed. You don't jab, ftilt, fsmash, grab, or full charge Aura Sphere nearly enough. I know ftilt isn't exactly useful in the matchup, but it feels like you're the kind of Lucario who still fights every character the same way, which means that you probably lack these in other matches too. Obviously you're also not using Uair enough in this matchup.

Third thing I noticed. Don't jump into the ****. You're out here spamming Fair like Rambo and somehow thinking that it'll just turn out all right. You're always moving into your opponent at all times. Even when you're airdodging, you try to airdodge THROUGH your opponent even if there is a ton of stage left to move to! You even land with fair a few times. That's a huge no-no. A lot of the times you spammed fair, you could've been doing other things, like fsmashing or ftilting or jabbing or dtilting or shooting a fully charged aura sphere or grabbing.

Fourth thing I noticed. Your airdodges are also REALLY predictable. Quite a few times you airdodge in places you shouldn't even airdodge in. A dair would've both protected you and dealt damage to your opponent at the same time if you just used it instead of airdodging. Luc's Dair is good and beats out a lot of ROB's things. You got punished so badly for this. There were a few times you could've been saved if you just did a Bair instead of an airdodge too. (Also remember Bair has very little landing lag)

Fifth thing I noticed. Your DI sucks. You should really work on that. Either mess around with special DI training with a friend, or just try to keep it in mind for later. Either way it'll come with experience.

Last thing I noticed, you went about the matchup entirely the wrong way. ROB is supposed to be a juggle-fest for you. Your job as a Lucario main is to get him up in the air above you and to keep him there. ROB has virtually no options to cover his underside, and he can't even fastfall past you reliably due to not only having absolutely no reliable coverage below him, but also because he is one of the very few characters who is actually arguably FLOATIER than we are! (exactly the same fall speed, fastfall speed, fastfall acceleration, but we have much better air speed and mobility). This means that our uair can pretty much destroy ROB all by itself, along with a little help from Utilt, Uthrow and Dthrow, and maybe even a little dtilt here and there. ROB kills us with Nair and edgeguarding. You were really open a lot of the time for both. Because you spammed aggro on him without thinking, and whenever you did camp, you did so improperly, you were constantly smacked by ROB's superior defensive options and slammed straight into that Nair and Bair a lot. Consider ROB as a character and think about how to beat him before rushing in mindlessly. His Dair and Bair are slow, and he falls very slowly combined with a very long airdodge, but he has worse horizontal air speed in all aspects than us, so using Uair from below to either hit him or bait an airdodge for another aerial (maybe another uair) is definitely a great strategy that should be used often against him. ROB has great defense, but that defense mainly comes from his spacing tilts and fair. If you use more shieldgrabs and dashing shieldgrabs, you can throw him exactly where you want him: Up (not left or right like you were doing). During his up B, ROB can Fair, Nair, and even Bair and Uair, but he can not air dodge. This means you have absolutely no risk if you throw a charged aura sphere, bair, or dair at ROB while he is recovering with that move, and there is a huge chance to hit him. ROB's grabs are okay, but they have average range, and they can only kill very late with good DI (upwards if f/bthrow, away from ROB if uthrow). Because of this, if ROB grabs you, you you should always start off DI'ing upwards immediately unless you see the startup of Uthrow, which is long enough to tell you to DI away. ROB has 3 ways to reliably kill you from onstage: Nair, Bair, and Fsmash. 2 of them require him to be in the air, and all 3 of them have a very long start up, enough to tell you that they're coming. If you watch out for them and make sure not to put yourself in too much lag when he is in an opportunity to use these, you will not die for a long, long time. Also, use more Fully Charged Aura Sphere.

tl;dr use more charged aura spheres, jab, grab, fsmash more, don't jump into the ****, airdodge better, work on your DI, learn to treat ROB like ROB, and spam more uair because ROB sucks against juggles.
 

solecalibur

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First thing I noticed, Sole.
You had a lot of opportunities to charge sphere, but you didn't. Against pretty much everyone in the cast but maybe Falco, Fox, and Wolf (and even then you should charge it sometimes), you should always keep a sphere charged. ROB's reflector is too slow and punishable to be used regularly without serious risk. In all honesty, the only time you SHOULDN'T be charging your sphere if you don't have one is if ROB is up in the air above you, which means you should be out there juggling him(and even then if he's high enough where it won't matter, you should charge a spurt or two). Hilariously, I noticed that you often did the exact opposite of this, and a few times when ROB was high in the air, you ran away to charge the sphere or attempt to camp.
Ok going to be taking in account now

Second thing I noticed. You don't jab, ftilt, fsmash, grab, or full charge Aura Sphere nearly enough. I know ftilt isn't exactly useful in the matchup, but it feels like you're the kind of Lucario who still fights every character the same way, which means that you probably lack these in other matches too. Obviously you're also not using Uair enough in this matchup.
Im going to have to find more threads with uses of Uair (I know where they are) but I need to read them


Fourth thing I noticed. Your airdodges are also REALLY predictable. Quite a few times you airdodge in places you shouldn't even airdodge in. A dair would've both protected you and dealt damage to your opponent at the same time if you just used it instead of airdodging. Luc's Dair is good and beats out a lot of ROB's things. You got punished so badly for this. There were a few times you could've been saved if you just did a Bair instead of an airdodge too. (Also remember Bair has very little landing lag)
That is more of a personal habit I need to stop doing (Blames wifi) but I'll watch out for that and take into consideraction bair and dair instead of airdodge

tl;dr use more charged aura spheres, jab, grab, fsmash more, don't jump into the ****, airdodge better, work on your DI, learn to treat ROB like ROB, and spam more uair because ROB sucks against juggles.
Im running short on time but I'll take into account for everything you said probly work on my DI also (Link to thread of what lucario's do to DI if possible) and come back later if I have time
I also still have to polish off a lot of things before my lucario is ready anyways don't expect him in brackets anytime soon =D but thanks a ton for the advice
 
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dude ROB FSmash comes out pretty quickly for a smash with that strength.

and never dair predictably. USmash hurts a LOT.

don't let him chill on the ledge either, that's where ROB likes to be, that's his best place to camp from.

watch ROB a larger percent of the time too, his laser has big startup lag you can see, therefore it's pretty predictable. Learning to read the laser will save you from a TON of damage.
 

solecalibur

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I've noticed the ROB player I have when he is on the edge when ever he comes up he has a tendency to Fair/Over recovers/Neutral B/Gyro but of course I treat it like Im learning the MU not the player
 

Zucco

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word, I never thought robs fsmash was that good. I just dont know how to fight the character yet.
 
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word, I never thought robs fsmash was that good. I just dont know how to fight the character yet.
Maybe you should focus on throwing more Aura Spheres and less controllers.






























;O

ROB does have iffy start up on his best kill moves, so I'm sure if you just observe him as you should be you'll be fine.
 

culexus・wau

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Help is always good.

even if its a bad help it can give others new insight from its failure.
 

culexus・wau

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You have to approach ROB

SDI Dsmash

don't be so quick to dair him because his uair can beat it sometimes.

WATCH for nairs

dash attack the top when its spinning on the ground to grab it.

attack the gyro or shield it depending on wether you just want to move it or have it disapear

if you can grab the gyro throw it in the air.

with no gyro and good reaction time you can have a camping war with rob.

don't die before 150 or else you're bad or have really bad luck.
 

Kitamerby

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Holding up 90% of the time is a good way to avoid his dsmash if you aren't used to SDI'ing it on reaction. I think it was either Espy or Camalange who taught me that.
 

ScAtt77

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Thanks for the MU tips, but i'm looking for anything bad that my Lucario is doing. (Such as spacing a move improperly, *how to recover correctly with Lucario* , or any noticeable patterns that I have.)
 

culexus・wau

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L95Qf5QSL7I#t=0m45s

Be brutal guys.

I'm partially Frustrated with this MU because the only marths that give me a problem are the seasoned ones. AKA the ones far above my level. The other ones I can just beat without problem.

on top of that, marths are a rare so I can't practice it as much as I like to.

hopefully bardull will come to weekly smashfests more.

also get ****ed up by your own CP flamewave.
 

Zucco

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L95Qf5QSL7I#t=0m45s

Be brutal guys.

I'm partially Frustrated with this MU because the only marths that give me a problem are the seasoned ones. AKA the ones far above my level. The other ones I can just beat without problem.

on top of that, marths are a rare so I can't practice it as much as I like to.

hopefully bardull will come to weekly smashfests more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L95Qf5QSL7I#t=2m34s

you arent taking opportunity of your opponents openings. Why run away when fsmash probably would have killed. this is only 1 example. Learn your options. you can either go for guaranteed damage or take a risk for more damage, but dont go for **** that wont do anything.
 

culexus・wau

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MythTrainerInfinity

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UThrowing Marth is not a good idea (maybe an ok mindgame against lower leveled Marfs). All of your other throws inflict more damage and he'll just FAir you or something.

Notice his spacing at around 2:40 and you did the exact same thing. You would probably have enough time to drop, double jump instantly and regrab the ledge to see what he would do.

The FSmash/Ftilt spam to **** this I'm DAiring and it worked at 3:00ish was lol. Running around too much at that % is kinda dangerous though even if he didn't hit you... you still could trip.

Is it possible to cling to the blowing face on Picto?

Pummeling really isn't worth at when the opponent is like below 30% imo. Its too easy to mash out. Just throw that bishouen. At 127% you do more damage with FThrow than your other throws.

You ran at him a lot of the time and he spaced in such a way where he really did not need to approach. Mike is soooo good though, so I understand.
 

MythTrainerInfinity

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAJTSPZ4xng

This was the only recording I know of at my last tourney. I died on my second stock because I accidentally airdodged and put myself in a real bad position, and me taking his last stock was lol.
Another Michigan Lucario? Dude, if you live near Detroit we could practice.

Use Aura Sphere more (both full charge and baby ones). I know Falcon is manly and I'd feel guilty camping him, but you will limit his options more.

Its really risky to rush to the ledge against any character. Against Falcon you could get UAired or even Up B'd really easily.

I'd recommend Dash attacking less...at about 4:08 you could've got kneed and lost >.>

Good reads on USmash though. Lol Fsmash mindgames.
 

D. Disciple

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You had good spacing with bair, you could zone a bit more with that and fairs, retreat with them and land on platforms or go through them to keep him at bay.

The usmashes made me happy, but you spammed them a bit too much. A rising nair could be a better option, it comes out faster and knocks them off the stage, and at high aura has a lot of knock back to it. Uair as well if you wanted a star ko, since your usmashes were getting pretty stale.

2nd stock was just ugh, I was hoping you would chase after Falcon with extreme speed so he grab onto you, so you would get popped up.

FPCG is nice to see when people don't know how to mash out of it, but you can also uthrow Falcon to 40% before they can get out of it, so try doing that to him. Good uses of utilt, there were times when I was hoping to see a bit more ftilt in your game.

Don't chase with dash attack, it's not safe and there were times when you could've gotten punished but luckily you didn't.

You were fortunate that your opponent wasn't harassing with jab set ups a lot more, and spacing fsmashes on some of your whiffs. Even uairs.

Falcon Kick was pretty funny too.

Also you need more aura sphere in your diet.
 
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