Meta "The Saikyo Dojo" Ryu Metagame Discussion.

[Renegade TX2000]

I've found that making use of mid-air Hadouken offstage when recovering actually is of notable assistance to Ryu's recovery since it causes him to float up and forwards a tiny bit (especially helpful when B-Reversed with Ryu's back facing the stage due to what seems to be a little more forwards momentum which comes from the B-Reverse), akin to Mario's Cape or the first swing of Marth's Dancing Blade when they first use it in the air.

Combining that with a Dash Canceled Focus Attack (forwards) I believe really helps Ryu's recovery horizontally since Tatsumaki can be unreliable if recovering at around ledge level without using right after a Double Jump (of course, you'd Dash Cancel the Focus Attack well before this height, because doing it there would essentially mean death because of Focus Attack's slower startup before the Dash Cancel can come out).

Ryu has so many ways to recover it isn't even funny. It's as versatile as sheiks off stage gimping ability. We can use Focus attack, Hadoken, Tatsu, you can even use input SRK so they really can't gimp you lmfao.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, may have been noted by now but Dair on a grounded opponent has very very low knockback (pops the opponent up right in front of Ryu), so it can essentially lead to a free grab, it has untrue combo follow-ups into Strong U-tilt, U-Smash, and Shoryuken at low/mid percents although this become true as % goes up. (Example: will true combo into Shoryuken on Falco as low as ~65%, and can potentially kill Falco this early if you connect with the 18% hit, although connecting with the 16% spot will more likely true combo).

Same goes for weak U-tilt although that begins true comboing at lower percent.

To give you an idea of how low the knockback is when it connects on the ground, it doesn't kill Falco at 822% if Ryu hits him on the ground.

It has more landing lag than Nair but the predictable trajectory IMO would make it the better option for starting combos at mid/high percent since at that point Nair starts to knock the opponent away even if the late hitbox (4%) connects.

 

[onehundredhitz]

Ryu's traditional SRK is going to be vital for his metagame, instead of his up B version. I don't know if this has been posted yet, but if you dash forward and do DP, he'll instantly cancel dash and uppercut. If you try this with up B (dash + up B), it won't work. You have to wait for him to stop his animation, then it'll come out. This can be a great offensive/punish tool because of the immediate cancel and the invincibility frames on DP.

 

[NofroTwist ProteinfartPie]

I've been assuming that the strong Version of DP KOs earlier than the weak Version (because logic), but has anyone confirmed this?
Also, is there any difference in the amount of invincibility frames depending on the version of the attack (I'm talking about holding the button down, not the input)? The reason I'm asking is because the medium version has the most invinicibilty frames in SF4, which makes it the most reliable version to use for anti-airing and such.

 

[onehundredhitz]

I've been assuming that the strong Version of DP KOs earlier than the weak Version (because logic), but has anyone confirmed this?
Also, is there any difference in the amount of invincibility frames depending on the version of the attack (I'm talking about holding the button down, not the input)? The reason I'm asking is because the medium version has the most invinicibilty frames in SF4, which makes it the most reliable version to use for anti-airing and such.

Strong True DP kills Lucina at 83%. Gonna test on everybody else in a second, but you can assume it kills earlier.

 

[ArcDawn]

With some rage I was able to kill a lucas at like 60-70% with input DP

Wasn't sure if it was bad DI though

 

[~Burst~]

The kill difference of up b to Input DP is about 17% give or take 2-3 on some characters.
With no rage, input DP kills as low as 69 on characters like Kirby.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I never got the timing to FADC in the air;.. but sometimes charging the Focus while falling (in a safe place, obviously) can be very useful.
I wish Ryu had Solar Plexus Strike somewhere in his moveset.. in SFIV, I normally link that after a successful Focus.

 

[Deleted member]

I never got the timing to FADC in the air;.. but sometimes charging the Focus while falling (in a safe place, obviously) can be very useful.
I wish Ryu had Solar Plexus Strike somewhere in his moveset.. in SFIV, I normally link that after a successful Focus.

(Assuming you're talking about FADC in Smash):

I've found that you can really cancel it almost whenever you want, the key is really just to hold down the Special button and not rush the dash inputs (IMO)

I've been able to cancel it before even his Stage 1 strike comes out, for example.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Oh.. thanks for the tip; I'll try later!

 

[Champ Gold]

Up Smash is an underrated move but that down Smash is horrendous.

I'm not asking for a kill move but the fact that it can't stop roll spamming and doesn't combo into anything as of I know of.


His heavy jab move is so damn good

 

[Elessar]

I've been assuming that the strong Version of DP KOs earlier than the weak Version (because logic), but has anyone confirmed this?
Also, is there any difference in the amount of invincibility frames depending on the version of the attack (I'm talking about holding the button down, not the input)? The reason I'm asking is because the medium version has the most invinicibilty frames in SF4, which makes it the most reliable version to use for anti-airing and such.

I was labbing kill percentages yesterday and the difference between ssb SRK and sf SRK is amazing. SF SRK KOs from 80% approximately in Ryu's stage, while ssb SRK doesn't kill until 115%.

I was thinking about the viability of mapping shield to X or Y. This would allow to shield faster and easier which might be essential to master Ryu's parry. If he can parry multihit moves then being able to input shield fast, accurately, and easily will be pivotal. I'll be testing this button layout but I'll appreciate if someone double checks this with me.

 

[.Shìkì]

Up Smash is an underrated move but that down Smash is horrendous.

I'm not asking for a kill move but the fact that it can't stop roll spamming and doesn't combo into anything as of I know of.


His heavy jab move is so damn good

Well at least it is the fastest smash. and has a little reach...

 

[Deleted member]

Up Smash is an underrated move but that down Smash is horrendous.

I'm not asking for a kill move but the fact that it can't stop roll spamming and doesn't combo into anything as of I know of.


His heavy jab move is so damn good

Yeah all things considered I do find myself a little surprised that it actually seems to be the worst of his Smash attacks. Considering that, as a Down Smash it doesn't hit both sides, you'd think it would have some other redeeming property, but F-Smash reaches further and kills earlier (save for small characters like Kirby who can probably crouch under it) and U-Smash also kills earlier.

On that note I do agree on the U-Smash, I really feel like that thing has a deceptive hitbox because when you look at it it doesn't seem to reach that far but it actually covers a surprising amount of space, IMO.

And of course it hits very hard.

 

[~Burst~]

Only thing I've found down smash useful for is attacking people who re-grab the ledge.

 

[Elessar]

Actually, iirc, dsmash connects as a combo with nair, so if you manage to land a nair you can combo it into a dsmash. Can be nice to send the opponent off stage when they're not in kill % yet.

Just double check that it does combo. I can't recall well enough now.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, iirc, dsmash connects as a combo with nair, so if you manage to land a nair you can combo it into a dsmash. Can be nice to send the opponent off stage when they're not in kill % yet.

Just double check that it does combo. I can't recall well enough now.

It does so even at 0% yes.

Just checked it.

Fresh Nair starts to knock the opponent away at higher % but the late hitbox keeps them close enough for it to true combo as high as 100%+ if you have a running start into it.

EDIT: I've been able to get at as high as 113% using the weak hit of Nair on Pikachu, you may be able to push this like 5% higher but the window becomes very tight to get the D-Smash out before they fly out of range.

I'm testing this with Pikachu, btw.

Pikachu because I just went random in training mode.

EDIT 2:

Running Late Nair -> F-Smash true combos on Pikachu as high as 140% and maybe more.

Due to Pikachu's height this will start connecting at around 85% because before that he'll actually end up sliding just under Ryu's foot because the % isn't high enough such that he'll actually be lifted high enough off the ground.

Running fresh Nair at what seems to be the last possible frame before the ground true combos into F-Smash on Bowser as low as 20%.

I'll be testing all the other characters here in a minute.

 

[mimgrim]

Why bother with Usmash when you can just do an SF motion Dragon Punch, though? Usmash is pretty much completely outclassed by that move, tbh.

 

[.Shìkì]

Why bother with Usmash when you can just do an SF motion Dragon Punch, though? Usmash is pretty much completely outclassed by that move, tbh.

Easy : if they shield or you whiff, in case of up-smash you can shield or get away, in case of DP you just set yourself up to be smashed offscreen.

 

[mimgrim]

Just tap DP so he doesn't go up as high and comes down faster (with no landing lag) ending lag is comparative to Usmash then.

 

[PChron]

Easy : if they shield or you whiff, in case of up-smash you can shield or get away, in case of DP you just set yourself up to be smashed offscreen.

His fastest up smash is only three frames btw (if i read that frame information correctly), much faster than anything you could command input.

 

[Kanzaki]

Any opinions yet on Ryu in doubles?

 

[ZeroSnipist]

not sure if this was said before
The hitboxes of nair (and maybe fair) clash with projectiles and nullify them. This could be great against characters with lots of projectiles such Link, Toon Link, etc.
I'm not sure which projectiles it clashes with and which it does not so that would have to be tested.
I only know of Toon link/link and pit/dark pit whose projectiles clash with nair (and possibly fair).

 

[Emblem Lord]

Up Smash is an underrated move but that down Smash is horrendous.

I'm not asking for a kill move but the fact that it can't stop roll spamming and doesn't combo into anything as of I know of.


His heavy jab move is so damn good

His d-smash is a poke.

Think outside the box.

 

[Astronut]

Has anyone figured out if it's possible to do a SF Shoryuken oos? As in jump-cancelled?

 

[Elessar]

Just tap DP so he doesn't go up as high and comes down faster (with no landing lag) ending lag is comparative to Usmash then.

Tapping also reduces dmg, not just height, so you'd have to check which one kills earlier. Besides, usmash can be used for a fast, safer move. It is our classed, but I'd hardly call it worthless. Specially considering that you will mostly have it fresh.

Has anyone figured out if it's possible to do a SF Shoryuken oos? As in jump-cancelled?

While I haven't tried it, I don't think you can jump cancel it since it is his recovery. However, it still doesn't matter since if you jump you'll still connect the move just as effectively as if you had stayed grounded. Also, you can always hit confirm with weak utilt oos before combing into a SF SRK.

 

[Deleted member]

While the endlag is similar for SRK and U-Smash, I honestly do feel U-Smash is a lot safer when going for say run-up U-Smash as opposed to SRK simply because that split second where Ryu is coming back down after SRK IMO leaves him more vulnerable.

Also FDAC is such a wonderful feint into F-Smash because of F-Smash's horizontal reach.

 

[Kanzaki]

Is the 3DS stages different from WiiU? I read that Ryu can't make it to BF/Dreamland platforms with 1 jump, but I was able to on the 3DS.

 

[Deleted member]

Just some quick character specific things:

Ryu can Tatsumaki through a full Sun Salutation.

Sonic can Spin Dash right under Hadouken, any variant of it, making Hadouken not much of an option here.

 

[PChron]

Just some quick character specific things:

Ryu can Tatsumaki through a full Sun Salutation.

Sonic can Spin Dash right under Hadouken, any variant of it, making Hadouken not much of an option here.

I think it's clear Hadouken shouldn't be used as a traditional projectile at this point, and only as a combo extender.

 

[Conda]

I think it's clear Hadouken shouldn't be used as a traditional projectile at this point, and only as a combo extender.

I feel this way too. You can combo into it, which is a much more reliable way to actually land it than to use it in any other circumstance.

I speak a bit about my impressions on Ryu in this video, if anyone's interested. Keep up the good discussion, this subforum is shaping up to be an invaluable resource.

 

[Kanzaki]

A lot of people are focusing on how to play Ryu, but any discussion on what Ryu struggles on so we may have an idea who are the bad match ups?

 

[meleebrawler]

A lot of people are focusing on how to play Ryu, but any discussion on what Ryu struggles on so we may have an idea who are the bad match ups?

Characters with big mobility that can camp Ryu out and those with stronger projectile games.

Yoshi will make you feel like you're fighting Akuma with his downward air fireballs (eggs), demon flip mixups
(armoured double jump with egg lay grab mixups and kicks) and great mobility.

And in the first version of the game he could teleport with a glitch.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Why bother with Usmash when you can just do an SF motion Dragon Punch, though? Usmash is pretty much completely outclassed by that move, tbh.

Switch it up so you don't stale the move

 

[Mark_got_woodz?]

As a SF vet, I cannot comprehend Ryu being in smash bros, there's just no way Around projectile heavy characters, playing sf doesn't help much in smash bros, ryu is just too "twitchy" hopefully I see a decent ryu in FG soon otherwise it just given up all hope

 

[mimgrim]

Ok Usmash and weak SF DP kill at the same time and DP has less startup and less endlag (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vw-lQktgLoE6tspDhOwju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/htmlview?pli=1#). SF DP also has invincibility frames as well. There is no real reason to use Usmash when DP existst. And even staled DP is 10x better the Usmash (still has 2 frames less startup, much less endlag and still has good kill power). Seriously SF DP is godlike even when staled.

 

[PChron]

Ok Usmash and weak SF DP kill at the same time and DP has less startup and less endlag (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vw-lQktgLoE6tspDhOwju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/htmlview?pli=1#). SF DP also has invincibility frames as well. There is no real reason to use Usmash when DP existst. And even staled DP is 10x better the Usmash (still has 2 frames less startup, much less endlag and still has good kill power). Seriously SF DP is godlike even when staled.

You're forgetting the fact that DP puts you in the air, which isn't advantageous when it doesn't kill your character.
Additionally, I think I read that the weak up smash (do smash attacks even have weak/strong variations? I haven't tested this as I only c-stick) is only three frames.

 

[mimgrim]

Smashes don't have weak/strong variants. Usmash starts on frame 8, and only frame 8. Don't know where the frame 3 thing came from. Go to the link I provided and click on Ryu. The endlag of DP is 12 frames, I presume 5his is the time it takes to get back to the ground/into helpless state after use as hit the groubd from it looks almost lagless.

 

[PChron]

Smashes don't have weak/strong variants. Usmash starts on frame 8, and only frame 8. Don't know where the frame 3 thing came from. Go to the link I provided and click on Ryu. The endlag of DP is 12 frames, I presume 5his is the time it takes to get back to the ground/into helpless state after use as hit the groubd from it looks almost lagless.

Regardless, a grounded up smash is still very useful. I can totally imagine not killing with the DP and getting punished accordingly.

 

[Humanity]

I'm getting good followups off of crossup Dairs. Upsmash also comes out super fast and has been my primary tool for punishing predictable rolls.