'V'
Smash Lord
The only Brawl tourneys I'll ever host are ISP... Meta Knight allowed of course.
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The SBR official stance on Metaknight.
- Thread starter Hylian
- Start date
- Status
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Xyro, I certainly understand you being upset, and I do agree the communities opinions seems to weigh very little in comparison to the SBR's, but the debate isn't done.
It did say for at least a year, during which evidence can be gathered as well as data, plus Hylian also said MK banned tourneys should be run to check things out.
It did say for at least a year, during which evidence can be gathered as well as data, plus Hylian also said MK banned tourneys should be run to check things out.
A good decision by the SBR.
Some posters have said this decision shows that the SBR is out of touch with the community opinion, but that's bogus. All of the polls have been ~55% in favour of a ban. Such a small majority indicates widespread disagreement on whether Meta Knight should be banned, and in the face of such disagreement, the only rational choice is to be conservative and err on the side of caution: not removing a character from the game, a radical and unprecedented step.
So not only did the SBR make the right choice, it made a choice that reflects the community poll.
Some posters have said this decision shows that the SBR is out of touch with the community opinion, but that's bogus. All of the polls have been ~55% in favour of a ban. Such a small majority indicates widespread disagreement on whether Meta Knight should be banned, and in the face of such disagreement, the only rational choice is to be conservative and err on the side of caution: not removing a character from the game, a radical and unprecedented step.
So not only did the SBR make the right choice, it made a choice that reflects the community poll.
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
Its obvious that pretty much everybody now is a tier *****.
I was in a tournament match yesterday and people watching favored Metaknight over my Jigglypuff.
Its disgusting how people worship him that much.
I was in a tournament match yesterday and people watching favored Metaknight over my Jigglypuff.
Its disgusting how people worship him that much.
person701
Smash Journeyman
Yay, it's over. Nothing was really lost, which is the better part of everything.
Now we need to find the character that matches MK (ie Fox/Marth in Melee).
Now we need to find the character that matches MK (ie Fox/Marth in Melee).
Abbra Cadav3r
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2009
- Messages
- 31
the sbr is not the brawl community, they are part of it but TO's can decide whatever they want.
no offence to the sbr so please dont take this the wrong way, but everyone stop acting like theyre decisions are gods words. A group of people on a forum only have as much say in the community as you let them.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
MANY MANY TO's were waiting on the SBR because they are to weak to do what is right. Now that SBR says meta should stay, at least 80% of those wimpy TO's will keep meta legal.
Nick A
Smash Cadet
80% seems a little low to me... 95% seems more accurate.
Takeover1806
Smash Champion
thank the community for making the most logical decision & not being dumb.. This community would have lost all my respect if he was to get banned
Four Leaf
Smash Journeyman
If you're surprised, don't be. This has been the deal with MK the whole time. He was more in threat of being banned the 1st or 2nd time. He was well secured as soon as he wasn't banned the 2nd time around. Everything is how it should be and the 3rd debate sealed the deal like the second should have. GG
'V'
Smash Lord
weeeeell, no reason for me to bother disadvantaging myself maining characters that actually take skill to use anyomre, and don't break the cp system of smash, might as well main mk in brawl.
lol....i might actually try and jump into the melee scene nwo, least that way if a fox pwns me, i know it was cuz he had skill to do it, that or go into the balanced brawl/brawl+ scene, where i hear they are actually trying to fix the broken character.
*lolflameshield<3*
lol....i might actually try and jump into the melee scene nwo, least that way if a fox pwns me, i know it was cuz he had skill to do it, that or go into the balanced brawl/brawl+ scene, where i hear they are actually trying to fix the broken character.
*lolflameshield<3*
Rajam
Smash Champion
Like 50 % of the community think MK should be banned... I think it would be fair to make 50% of tourneys with MK banned, 50% MK non-banned
Well i'm glad MK didn't got banned. People here in Chile wants to ban him and he doesn't even dominates the tourneys ( Snake is 1st in tournament results here ), and even if some people don't want to recognize it, the US metagame and many rule decisions affects many things we are doing by these sides. I guess it happens in a lot of other countries too
Well i'm glad MK didn't got banned. People here in Chile wants to ban him and he doesn't even dominates the tourneys ( Snake is 1st in tournament results here ), and even if some people don't want to recognize it, the US metagame and many rule decisions affects many things we are doing by these sides. I guess it happens in a lot of other countries too
choknater
Smash Obsessed
wow, what a tough debate
i am on the antiban side so i'm happy this was the result of the vote
rigorous and vigorous! good stuff
i am on the antiban side so i'm happy this was the result of the vote
rigorous and vigorous! good stuff
Limeee
Smash Champion
PurDi
Smash Journeyman
Well, exactly what I expected. *sigh*
I honestly think the smash community is too scared to ban such a big part of the game. TOs will still allow him undoubtedly, so have fun metaknights!
I love Texas. no MK for us!
I honestly think the smash community is too scared to ban such a big part of the game. TOs will still allow him undoubtedly, so have fun metaknights!
I love Texas. no MK for us!
Most definitely. Much <3 for Xyro.
This.
Besides, it's not gonna hurt anyone.
a~nd this, except for the last sentence.
We've gotten NOWHERE with this entire ordeal. Pretty much back at square one.
solecalibur
Smash Master
I'm most likly going to ban MK at my tounrys unless I see major meta games stepping up of characters
Its still over 50% in public poll but they want a 2/3 vote even if the public vote really didn't matter (suprized?)
Its still over 50% in public poll but they want a 2/3 vote even if the public vote really didn't matter (suprized?)
Framerate
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,036
OMG they banned MK
Tomkraven
Smash Journeyman
50+% on every poll and almost half of the votes should at least earn him a soft ban or even a test ban to see what would have happen. Mod could say that TO's should try MK banned tournaments but we all know that they could be or a total success or a shameful failure and no one wants to take the risk.
LuigiKing
Smash Lord
RATED
Smash Lord
Wow 4 polls all in favor of pro ban and he's not banned lol
I have no prob with the NO but if next year at this time if he continues being overcentralizing the metagame that would need to change. Btw how many mk mainers or 2nds are on SBR?
I have no prob with the NO but if next year at this time if he continues being overcentralizing the metagame that would need to change. Btw how many mk mainers or 2nds are on SBR?
'V'
Smash Lord
That shouldn't matter...
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2005
- Messages
- 8,189
This question keeps on coming up. And just so you know, it is less then a quarter(from what I remember.) If they wanted to help their mains and just be greedy he would be banned.
Yankee
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 135
And the bickering will continue like it was before the vote. The problem is that if people aren't even open to try at least a temporary or soft ban, we will never know how it will effect the community past our current speculation. With a vote that close its not right to just finish the vote and not change anything at all, its not like half of the community is going to sit back and say "well the vote is over, anti-ban won by a slim margin. That means I have to accept that he is legal and wait a year to make another argument."
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
Well, I guess the next time we have a close presidential race, we should just keep the old president in office until the people come to a significant enough majority to justify going through the bother of the transfer of power...
Look, 55% isn't much, but it's still a majority, and it's been consistent the whole time. The only reason Meta isn't banned right now is because the SBR is made up of self-appointed, self-elected individuals. They don't reflect the COMMUNITY at all, just the top players, and as many people have pointed out, apparently only the opinions of the top players matter in this community. The SBR is a good idea, but it isn't set up to take the community into account at all, and that's the flaw, evident in how Meta won this last decision.
The SBR held their private poll before the public one. They decided before hand the math for how the public poll would effect the private poll. In order for the community poll to have made ANY difference in the SBR's decision, the public pro-ban % needed to be 66%, a minimum difference of 11% from ALL previous polls. There was NO WAY anyone in there thought that would actually happen; they KNEW that Meta wouldn't be banned. There was no way for them NOT to; the math wasn't in the pro-ban's favor. This setup is JUST LIKE the Electoral College in politics: set up expressly so that popular opinion has less of an effect on the outcome.
Basically: Meta got saved by a bunch of elite individuals that really only think that their top-level of play matters, while forgetting that all of the people Meta actually screws on a daily basis... pay for their plane tickets, hotel rooms, and pot money. I can't agree with that... and that's why I'm happy that Xyro's keeping Meta banned here in Texas.
Yeaaaaah, good thing I didn't participate. If I had, i wouldnt've had the money to make it back home, since top 3 split to just get the tourney over with.
And all this because a flood of MKs happened when our top player started maining MK, HDL, and others simply couldn't keep up and felt that it was a waste of time.
Yes, because the SBR was created to make the rules for TOs to follow to the letter, no questions asked. We also ask that all TOs never make their own decisions or follow the requests of their local community over what we
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2005
- Messages
- 8,189
The SBR consists of members who are good in what they do. Just because a ton of scrubs can't beat metaknights, does not mean he should be banned. The SBR saw this and acted on it. They got the publics opinion, they knew what it was and it affected the vote. However, the vote was still in theAntiban favor. If you think that the SBR is just a bunch of hooligans looking for ways to ruin tournaments and make rules that TO's MUST FOLLOW TO THE LETTER. You are wrong. If you read the first post, it encourages metaknight banned tournaments.
Yeah, it is similar to how the government is set up. But, the reason we select our senators is so that they can weigh their opinion with ours. Just because some people may want A, doesn't mean that A is the right thing to do.
EDIT: Also, I am Pro ban.
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
This is a really crappy comparison.
Really, when people are blasting the decision to use a 2/3rd majority, it show's how completly oblivious they are to the magnitude of the outcome.
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
Just like Xyro already said, the SBR never says that anyone HAS to follow their rules to the letter, but how many TO's REALLY deviate from their approved ruleset? They know this. We all do. Many TO's just follow the rules, no questions asked, and do what the list tells them to. Maybe it's easier. Maybe it's simpler than balancing your own variant. Maybe it's just laziness. Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter: if the SBR wanted to encourage variance and experimentation, they wouldn't have an OFFICIAL ruleset and wouldn't be an OFFICIAL entity.
It took months of research, balancing, testing, and hard work by many people to make a workable item ruleset that's fair and fun to play... but it's sad that I can only point to WHOBO as proof that it works because TO's are too lazy or scared to use it. At least B+ and Balanced Brawl have the excuse that you have to hack the systems to play them. I don't want to turn this into an items thing, because it's not, but my point is illustrated.
As for Sinz's remarks about senators... it's not their job to decide what's right or not (on paper, anyway): it's their job to represent the wants, needs, and opinions of the people that elected them. It's the SBR's self-appointed job to decide what is right or wrong, regardless of whether anyone agrees or not. Again, it's only the opinions of the top of the meta-game that matters here. Forget the fact that if we cater to only the top without cultivating the bottom and middle, 70-85% (guess percentages, btw) of the community gets screwed. Everyone seems to forget that. What's best for the top can effectively kill the rest of the metagame, but what's best for the bottom will never kill the top.
It took months of research, balancing, testing, and hard work by many people to make a workable item ruleset that's fair and fun to play... but it's sad that I can only point to WHOBO as proof that it works because TO's are too lazy or scared to use it. At least B+ and Balanced Brawl have the excuse that you have to hack the systems to play them. I don't want to turn this into an items thing, because it's not, but my point is illustrated.
As for Sinz's remarks about senators... it's not their job to decide what's right or not (on paper, anyway): it's their job to represent the wants, needs, and opinions of the people that elected them. It's the SBR's self-appointed job to decide what is right or wrong, regardless of whether anyone agrees or not. Again, it's only the opinions of the top of the meta-game that matters here. Forget the fact that if we cater to only the top without cultivating the bottom and middle, 70-85% (guess percentages, btw) of the community gets screwed. Everyone seems to forget that. What's best for the top can effectively kill the rest of the metagame, but what's best for the bottom will never kill the top.
'V'
Smash Lord
I'm not always 100% with the SBR and its decisions, but I have to say that it's not like they intentionally want to screw over its community. They're just as much a part of the community as we are except they just happen to be made up of the best players, which says a lot towards the top-level of the metagame itself.
I'm sorry that Meta Knight can utterly destroy mid-level play, but that should just tell everyone that they should try to get better so that they can reach the top-level so that they can experience what's actually going on. Yes at that level Meta Knight is still the best character, but he doesn't seem to dominate all of the best players by himself 100% of the time. Even in high-level play, it's harder than it looks. Obviously that's what most of them wanted us to know.
This decision of the SBR is only recommended. It's not like you have to follow it. Shoot... They even suggested that you try new rulesets and even more Meta Knight-banned tourneys. The TO's should know this by now.
You can't really blame them for putting the discussion off for now either, considering the debate's been going on forever and we've done FOUR polls already. Yes there will be complaining still, but oh well. If you have a problem, YOU do something about it.
I'm sorry that Meta Knight can utterly destroy mid-level play, but that should just tell everyone that they should try to get better so that they can reach the top-level so that they can experience what's actually going on. Yes at that level Meta Knight is still the best character, but he doesn't seem to dominate all of the best players by himself 100% of the time. Even in high-level play, it's harder than it looks. Obviously that's what most of them wanted us to know.
This decision of the SBR is only recommended. It's not like you have to follow it. Shoot... They even suggested that you try new rulesets and even more Meta Knight-banned tourneys. The TO's should know this by now.
You can't really blame them for putting the discussion off for now either, considering the debate's been going on forever and we've done FOUR polls already. Yes there will be complaining still, but oh well. If you have a problem, YOU do something about it.
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