The Sheik Matchup Thread (read the OP noobs)

[Teczer0]

Don't worry bout it

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Allright I lied

He's almost drunk.

 

[Teczer0]

Huh... I guess....?

 

[Hazygoose]

no moar h8, bro

 

[raychun1]

Sure, I don't really mind at all, a lot of people are better visual-learners anyway.

Falcon is a matter of either camping him with better range and low lag and high priority until you can hit him and kill him, or walking towards him doing F-tilt and D-tilt until he gets scared and attacks and then him dying.

Puff is largely composed of needles x99 and Fair x99 and other aerials x50, jabs x20, and D-smash x40. You can't grab her

Marios are easy, just do D-smash and grab a lot. F-tilt and aerials too, but basically they're just going to try to compete with your ground game because if they ever jump in you will **** them so they'll just do ground-stuff. So just out-ground-stuff them and you'll win.

ok, i agree 100% with the falcon assessment(altho you could have added dsmash and edgeguarding), 50% with the puff, and 20% on the mario.


cap has like no priority, but he's fast so he can space all your moves. if you watch m2k vs any falcon, he just racks up damage with tech chasing and then some tilt to fair. then edgeguard. it's not gonna work all the time, but m2k is perfect with it.

against puff, i space grabs all the time. KK is right about aerials and smash and needles are in your favor, but grab is really essential imo .i don't get how you can possible kill puff wihtout a gurranteed grab. it's not easy to get them, but they should lead to half your kills.

mario is not THAT easy. mario's dmash WRECKS sheik's dsmash. his CC is monstrous. you cannot out-ground him, i disagree completely with that. i do agree with ftilt and aerials. if you try to out ground them, you'll prolly get grabbed anyway. bair and fair are good, so is nair. most of the time, you basically have to outspace him, and make sure he doesn't come back. his recovery is horrible, so make sure you take away that double and it's ova

 

[Teczer0]

Mario <<< Sheik I guess...

 

[KirbyKaze]

ok, i agree 100% with the falcon assessment(altho you could have added dsmash and edgeguarding), 50% with the puff, and 20% on the mario.


cap has like no priority, but he's fast so he can space all your moves. if you watch m2k vs any falcon, he just racks up damage with tech chasing and then some tilt to fair. then edgeguard. it's not gonna work all the time, but m2k is perfect with it.

against puff, i space grabs all the time. KK is right about aerials and smash and needles are in your favor, but grab is really essential imo .i don't get how you can possible kill puff wihtout a gurranteed grab. it's not easy to get them, but they should lead to half your kills.

mario is not THAT easy. mario's dmash WRECKS sheik's dsmash. his CC is monstrous. you cannot out-ground him, i disagree completely with that. i do agree with ftilt and aerials. if you try to out ground them, you'll prolly get grabbed anyway. bair and fair are good, so is nair. most of the time, you basically have to outspace him, and make sure he doesn't come back. his recovery is horrible, so make sure you take away that double and it's ova

I despise D-smash against Falcon beyond egdeguarding and tech chasing because they keep dash dance grabbing me.

I don't think I should have to say "edgeguard him", everyone knows how to edgeguard with Sheik. Ledgehop invincible Bairs that regrab the edge. Throw needles sometimes. Jump at them with an aerial. F-tilt --> Fair. It's all very intuitive.

I'm probably wrong on the Marios, but that's just what's worked for me. I think Sheik's better at dash dancing on the ground and getting grabs than them, but you're right that it's probably better to just be safe and go with Reno's wisdom of "Do spaced Fair".

You will rarely if ever grab a good Puff. If they just sit in shield, though, it's amazing.

 

[Teczer0]

KK makes ZERO sense.

 

[nicaboy]

lolz techzero im so mad i missed you at zp ****...

any way Im sober and can tell you mario is easy unless your playing green mario or something.

 

[Teczer0]

Oh god... make it stop

 

[nicaboy]

I cant spell for my life. To imagine I passed high school lol.

 

[Teczer0]

Well thats that.

 

[Hazygoose]

well bears don't eat honey, they eat bee larvae. so bees are just fighting back.
viva la revelution abeille !!!

bears>bees, though. i'd say the matchup is 70/30

 

[Teczer0]

Yea......

Sorry for the random spam in the thread ROFL

 

[raychun1]

don't forget mario can chaingrab, it's slightly better than doc's.

i honestly believe sheik has only one bad matchup: ice climbers. the other matchups sheik basically goes even with or has a decent advantage. after that, it's probably just personal likes/dislikes

 

[KirbyKaze]

Marios can't grab Sheik easily.

You have ranged moves that cannot be shield-grabbed, punished by WD OoS, or CCed.

These are good traits.

 

[soap]

and mario has the body of a little boy.

mario v. ness always cracks me up.

mario is crafty though, he can grab u, don't underestimate him

 

[nicaboy]

sheik vs ness always cracks me up. Its so one sided its funny.

 

[Teczer0]

sheik vs ness always cracks me up. Its so one sided its funny.

I know what can Sheik do about Ness's enormous head?

Ness ***** too hard

 

[nicaboy]

^^^ if this was smash 64 ya his head ***** too hard.

 

[earthadept]

^^^ if this was smash 64 ya his head ***** too hard.

yeeeeeeeeeeees if smash 64 had sheik it'd be the best game evar

 

[soap]

sheik would soil the sanctity of 64

 

[KirbyKaze]

mario is crafty though, he can grab u, don't underestimate him

For Mario specifically:

With the exception of F-smash, everything can be eaten.

Don't get grabbed. Respect his F-smash.

For Doc specifically:

With the exception of nothing, everything can be eaten.

Don't get grabbed.

 

[soap]

everything can be eaten?

haha

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik's legs have angry piranhas attached to them.

Except her Nair, because it's a dead fish.

Logically, we can conclude her Nair has lazy cannibal zombie piranhas because it only eats other Nairs or slow, easy-to-catch moves like Ganon's Fair.

 

[nicaboy]

yeeeeeeeeeeees if smash 64 had sheik it'd be the best game evar

lol no man I dont wanna see what sheik would look like in smash 64.
Megaman should be in smash64.

 

[Adam M!]

who said ICs is a bad matchup for sheik? hellllll no

 

[Twin_A]

subscribing

 

[SonuvaBeach]

who said ICs is a bad matchup for sheik? hellllll no

Play a good IC's and it isn't so good.

 

[Twin_A]

My IC's aren't too bad but I always liked the sheik match up when I was them. Sheik can kill nana easily though. If you're playing as Sheik just make sure you don't spam d smashes and have good spacing and you'll be fine. It's easy to CG a Sheik as IC's.

 

[nicaboy]

So I played a luigi this weekend. I cannot tell you how many times I landed d throw sheild they n air I sheild grab them etc. Thanks kirby kaze.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol Luigi is so silly

 

[Kira-]

sheik can chain grab herself from (according to plank) 0 - 90 without platform interference.

i'm 90% sure you can jump out at upper 70 percents

i've seen isai do it to DSF in crews at OC3, the video is out there but probably hard to find, i've jumped out around there too (but can't do it consistently)

 

[soap]

drephen is always jumping out of my chaingrab around 60-70

good news is u can usmash the DI they use to jump out

 

[Devil Ray]

sheik dittos can become really gay really fast.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Edited .

 

[Kira-]

who said ICs is a bad matchup for sheik? hellllll no

i think it's in ICs favor. i can hit Fly 20x in a row but his one grab erases all the work i just did. if you beat him in tourney i'll reconsider

sheik dittos can become really gay really fast.

its just grab and dont **** up. same thing as marth on fox/falco, or sheik on falcon, or ICs on anyone

just looks a little different thats all

 

[SonuvaBeach]

i think it's in ICs favor. i can hit Fly 20x in a row but his one grab erases all the work i just did. if you beat him in tourney i'll reconsider

Exactly. In a perfect world of perfect players, Sheik has the advantage because she can keep IC's from getting a grab. But I'm not at that level, so I still occasionally get grabbed and lose stocks because of it.

 

[Kira-]

yeah i could use some tips or tricks in the IC matchup

C&P from pacwest forums:

iono i guess im bad at not getting grabbed

i feel like i could win in 80% of the situations but one bad tech or one mis-spaced attack and i lose the stock. sure people have been saying this all the time but this really feels like an uphill battle. if fly CCs one tilt, or gets under my sh fair or knocks me to the ground at all i'm in a very bad place to get grabbed- basically if he hits me i'm at risk of getting grabbed

now that he's learned the matchup a lot better it's really hard to win each positional situation that comes up

puff is the same thing but she moves slower and she has less opportunities to get rests in; less things lead to rest than grab. ICs can WD in at any time and it's pretty quick so I won't be reacting as much as I can against puff.

I think it's the WD and their dsmash/fsmashes that give me the most trouble. i have to guard against these attacks (which do a lot of damage)

mario/doc can cg me too but i'm never worried because there's not a lot to finish me off. Once popo is done chaingrabbing me i get ***** by blizzard then fsmash- not easy to deal with.

i wouldn't go fox because fly has too much experience against fox even though he would be the easy choice. but falco can control the stage a lot better and he can GRAB ICs which is so fukken useful. sheik cant grab ICs for **** so it's really hard to get anything done without getting into a battle of attrition which is bad for me because he only needs one opening while I need like 4-6 in a row.


please send me videos of a sheik playing the matchup correctly. because as far as i know, no sheik main beats an equally skilled ICs main. A lot of sheik mains switch characters, like Vans, Tope, and even Drephen. And everyone always says there's a reason Chu has never lost to a sheik.


also fly that's just the thing- almost all the characters do better against ICs than sheik does lol. you forgot puff too

UMM basically how do you guys approach or play the matchup? or what do you do in very specific situations?

unfortunately not a SINGLE one of my sets with Fly Amanita have been recorded and we play all the time. All the games last 8 minutes lol. I had the upper hand at one time but since he's figured out the matchup he's beaten me the last two times in tournament and it doesn't look like i'm getting closer to beating him.

i used to platform camp a lot but on smaller stages he's really good at taking the platforms away from you, forcing you back on the ground. this makes it problematic because ICs WD is quick and tricky and it's kinda tough to space against it without platforms.

I usually start by the basic sh fair/ftilt spacings, but he'll either wd under my jump and uptilt or he'll CC my tilts and grab me. Sure the easy answer is to "switch up", except I can out-predict him 5 times but if he gets me just ONCE i die immediately so it's a pretty tough matchup.


durr you gotta give me some advice then if "my style isn't the right way to fight ICs" or if "sheik ***** ICs" cause i'm not seeing it


bleh im kinda rambling (super tired johns), just post what you do or what tricks seem to work for you.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

"everything Kira said"

Disclaimer: I'm a bad kid in comparison to you Kira. lol

You described the exact mindset I have when facing Mario/Doc and said all the same exact problems I have. It is even scarier when I think about how I am playing Trail and having such a hard time, and you fly, and then there is Chu's IC's.

I wish there were more GOOD videos of Sheik vs IC's. Plairnkk vs Chu is the best I have seen so far, and that is just one tourny. No one play's Sheik vs IC's, despite it apparently being an even matchup, on top the absence of good IC's.

I think that IC's vs Sheik may be one of the matchups that very few people know a lot about because they oftentimes don't main Sheik or IC's and are just talking about the matchup from a different perspective.

I'm just rambling too. I hope Chu plays Amsah at pound 4 because I don't think Amsah will switch to peach or fox(or would he?). Drephen, tope, and other sheik's probably would.

More knowledge on the matchup plz

Edit: add onto the list that d-smash will work a few times, but let's say you hit them 3-4 times with it. If they read your d-smash, or you flub it, or anything just ONE time, you get CG'd to death.