KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm sad Azen's set wins over Chu's Ice Climbers with Sheik were never once recorded.
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The Sheik Matchup Thread (read the OP noobs)
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
Old or new? That makes me sad too.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
2006 I think, so fairly old.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
I feel like we should talk about sheiks uncommons matchs ups more.
I too cant stand ice climbers to the point where I will use a different charcter. I played uber ice recently and it was recorded (gotta make ballistics put it up lmao) and its tough. Platform camping seems to work really well but as kira said mess up one time get grabed death etc etc. Im afraid to do anything in fear of getting grabed. I cant grab because there is 2 of them. And edge guarding is worse. He does this thing where nana holds the ledge and he waits on stage with popo. Ugh its so whack man. Down smash seemed to work when it connects but when they sheild its gets me grabed.
I too cant stand ice climbers to the point where I will use a different charcter. I played uber ice recently and it was recorded (gotta make ballistics put it up lmao) and its tough. Platform camping seems to work really well but as kira said mess up one time get grabed death etc etc. Im afraid to do anything in fear of getting grabed. I cant grab because there is 2 of them. And edge guarding is worse. He does this thing where nana holds the ledge and he waits on stage with popo. Ugh its so whack man. Down smash seemed to work when it connects but when they sheild its gets me grabed.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Dsmash sucks against ICs unless you have them near the edge.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Agreed.
All it seems you can do is do things that don't involve you being directly underneath them, or that be punished by grab or Shield --> something --> grab.
I agree with Nicaboy that we need to talk more about weird characters but nobody's really contributing. I've said more or less everything I know about the characters I know how to fight except DK and Pikachu and neither of them really matter as characters anyway. If someone with good ICs experience and success against them would like to share, I'd be happy to add whatever limited knowledge I have on the subject.
I'll help with whatever limited knowledge I have.
Just pick a character match up
Just pick a character match up
Twin_A
Smash Champion
You have to play fairly gay against Jiggs imo. I don't have the greatest experience against jiggs but they have a pretty easy time resting Sheik if she gets caught in a Utilt, Uair, etc.
She can also rest you by CCing your dash attacks and crouching under your grabs. So play smart and if they stay back waiting for you to approach then just throw needles as well as possible.
Don't try to rush things too much, one slip up will lead into a rest combo if done right O.o
She can also rest you by CCing your dash attacks and crouching under your grabs. So play smart and if they stay back waiting for you to approach then just throw needles as well as possible.
Don't try to rush things too much, one slip up will lead into a rest combo if done right O.o
pockyD
Smash Legend
usmash out of shield is so legit vs greedy jiggs (who try to cross you up and stuff)
I love fighting puff, i think im pretty good at it cause of Mango and another socal puff main called PsychoMidget (of early brawl fame lol)
i had a whole thing written out about the matchup when i was bored in class but now i cant find that notebook
for tl;dr people, i colored the important stuff
but basically what i look for is,
- If she does an aerial and she lands moving towards you, you can dsmash/dashattack/grab (i recommend not grabbing until kill percent only, since puffs usually duck. so dsmash will rack up more damage and dash attack will combo since they CC. also they will be used to getting attacked and will shield later on which is when you get your grab in)
- if she does an aerial moving away then needle or approach with shield. dont try to punish directly
- approach with shield- she'll do her little aerial then move away again, counter this by wavedashing forward in your shield to dsmash, ftilt, or fair (or dash attack sometimes around mid percents cause it'll combo. puffs are not used to DIing out of combos that much so sometimes they get caught by it). if they move past you (through you) you can either upsmash out of shield like pockyD said, or just nair/bair out of shield. there are some subtle spacing tricks that only mango has ever done to me where he bairs somewhat high above my shield to bait an attack but i dont worry about that from anyone else
- otherwise needle camp a lot, dont jump and needle too much as they will take your jump or get under you (very bad obviously). you want to stay in front of them, never above or beneath. and at low percents always be careful of dash attacking since they will CC rest. just focus on getting that needle damage in and spacing all your attacks very carefully until puff is at high percents
- sometimes sh fair to out-prioritize their own fair or bair
- puff's uptilt shield pokes if they wait for it (mango does this all the time) so roll the **** away when your shield gets low. most non-mango puffs have trouble catching sheik's roll and even if they do they only get a little aerial or throw. plus if you jump or WD out you might get caught which means you get rested
- if you get a grab at low percent do: dthrow > sh fair > ftilt > sh fair > ftilt > fair. they usually DI bad and get caught at least once
- learn dthrow > upair no matter what their DI at kill percents. i dont know the exact % of death if they DI well but it's probably like 80% on most stages before the hit. with good DI (and being in the middle of the stage) puff can live a dthrow slap above 120% on some stages so this is important.
- DI the rest DOWN unless you think you can live.
- puff usually has to hit and run until mid percents unless she goes for a rest. so you can nair out of her attacks at low percents if she tries to follow up
- at low percents punish rest by charging needles then dthrow slap, at 70%+ just charge upsmash to kill
Overall I just do anything to add damage and play super safe and campy. This matchup takes a lot of focus, because you never have a safe enough lead- one aerial at mid percents leads to combos and you can get rested in a lot of ways, and if they space well you can't CC anything really. i just aim to run out the clock and if i happen to get an opening i'll take it
basically just wait for their aerial, then read their air pattern (either back away, do another aerial, or go past you) and punish accordingly. only puffs with REALLY good spacing will be any problem (at high level puff is almost even with sheik) but anything less than that and puff is a breeze for sheik np
one thing: i dont use bair much unless im just stalling. i just shield camp since sheik can almost run away from her the entire match or at least keep her at bay so just wait it out.
also watch my sheik video thread lol
i had a whole thing written out about the matchup when i was bored in class but now i cant find that notebook
for tl;dr people, i colored the important stuff
but basically what i look for is,
- If she does an aerial and she lands moving towards you, you can dsmash/dashattack/grab (i recommend not grabbing until kill percent only, since puffs usually duck. so dsmash will rack up more damage and dash attack will combo since they CC. also they will be used to getting attacked and will shield later on which is when you get your grab in)
- if she does an aerial moving away then needle or approach with shield. dont try to punish directly
- approach with shield- she'll do her little aerial then move away again, counter this by wavedashing forward in your shield to dsmash, ftilt, or fair (or dash attack sometimes around mid percents cause it'll combo. puffs are not used to DIing out of combos that much so sometimes they get caught by it). if they move past you (through you) you can either upsmash out of shield like pockyD said, or just nair/bair out of shield. there are some subtle spacing tricks that only mango has ever done to me where he bairs somewhat high above my shield to bait an attack but i dont worry about that from anyone else
- otherwise needle camp a lot, dont jump and needle too much as they will take your jump or get under you (very bad obviously). you want to stay in front of them, never above or beneath. and at low percents always be careful of dash attacking since they will CC rest. just focus on getting that needle damage in and spacing all your attacks very carefully until puff is at high percents
- sometimes sh fair to out-prioritize their own fair or bair
- puff's uptilt shield pokes if they wait for it (mango does this all the time) so roll the **** away when your shield gets low. most non-mango puffs have trouble catching sheik's roll and even if they do they only get a little aerial or throw. plus if you jump or WD out you might get caught which means you get rested
- if you get a grab at low percent do: dthrow > sh fair > ftilt > sh fair > ftilt > fair. they usually DI bad and get caught at least once
- learn dthrow > upair no matter what their DI at kill percents. i dont know the exact % of death if they DI well but it's probably like 80% on most stages before the hit. with good DI (and being in the middle of the stage) puff can live a dthrow slap above 120% on some stages so this is important.
- DI the rest DOWN unless you think you can live.
- puff usually has to hit and run until mid percents unless she goes for a rest. so you can nair out of her attacks at low percents if she tries to follow up
- at low percents punish rest by charging needles then dthrow slap, at 70%+ just charge upsmash to kill
Overall I just do anything to add damage and play super safe and campy. This matchup takes a lot of focus, because you never have a safe enough lead- one aerial at mid percents leads to combos and you can get rested in a lot of ways, and if they space well you can't CC anything really. i just aim to run out the clock and if i happen to get an opening i'll take it
basically just wait for their aerial, then read their air pattern (either back away, do another aerial, or go past you) and punish accordingly. only puffs with REALLY good spacing will be any problem (at high level puff is almost even with sheik) but anything less than that and puff is a breeze for sheik np
one thing: i dont use bair much unless im just stalling. i just shield camp since sheik can almost run away from her the entire match or at least keep her at bay so just wait it out.
also watch my sheik video thread lol
soap
Smash Hero
i agree with kiras puff advice. u basically camp.
but in addition to dsmash and ftilt after the wavedash oos, dtilt is amazing. especially if they full hop baired and drifted away. u can eat the second bair if u try to challenge it straight up with a ftilt. dtilt sort of snakes under it, and it combos better
but in addition to dsmash and ftilt after the wavedash oos, dtilt is amazing. especially if they full hop baired and drifted away. u can eat the second bair if u try to challenge it straight up with a ftilt. dtilt sort of snakes under it, and it combos better
Twin_A
Smash Champion
I like the advise to DI left when rested (unless you think you can live of course). That way you can spawn quicker and hopefully get in a hit/combo/kill move before she wakes up. DIing up will cause you to float in the back or hit the screen which takes too long >.<
Hey what about the Peach match up? I have been having trouble with this one as of late.
Hey what about the Peach match up? I have been having trouble with this one as of late.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
Nice puff stuff. Imma try upsmash out of sheild since it works for fox never thought it was good for sheik too.
I have a new found respect for ganon and think samus is so stupid(easy however)
I was watching drephen vids and I see he down smashes puff's on the floor. Its so amazin man
I have a new found respect for ganon and think samus is so stupid(easy however)
I was watching drephen vids and I see he down smashes puff's on the floor. Its so amazin man
soap
Smash Hero
don't dsmash at too low percents
they can cc fsmash u
i think ive been waveshield rested out of my dsmash too. not many people are good at that though
they can cc fsmash u
i think ive been waveshield rested out of my dsmash too. not many people are good at that though
Don't DI LEFT, make sure it's DOWN. I used to DI to the side (whichever side I thought I would get sent towards) but sometimes you don't get sent that way (either b/c they are really smart and went to the other side of you, or because of poor spacing judgment) and then you die up. if you hold down, you will die off the side no matter what.
as for peach- watch me vs bladewise lol. there are like only 3 things i ever look for when fighting peach, b/c if i really wanted to i could just needle/platform camp all day and win that way. unfortunately i havent played a peach that can beat me yet (in tournament) so i havent tested my max potential for this matchup (i get impatient and just fight sometimes cause i never feel like i'll lose).
ganon is easy, i think everyone just plays the matchup wrong. they have the worst shield pressure, you can just move away from it all the time. only spacies/marth/and puff have any kind of decent pressure against sheik
samus is also retardedly easy unless you're playing hugs and then all i can say is good luck
mango has shielded my dsmash and rested me out of it O_o so it's dangerous against him but nobody else i've played has done it. however you still could get hit with fair out of shield so dont do it too much
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Thanks for the tips Kira :D
Random question, are you the same Kira from Genesis who I did the magic trick to? (signed your card Deathnote)
I've spoken with probably a dozen smashers who go by Kira >.>
Random question, are you the same Kira from Genesis who I did the magic trick to? (signed your card Deathnote)
I've spoken with probably a dozen smashers who go by Kira >.>
soap
Smash Hero
that john goodman avatar is so pro
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8746843&postcount=5335
So guys. Apparently Falcon's U-throw Knee isn't a legit combo if we DI away. He apparently has to Uair or guess whether we'll double jump (countered by FJ Knee) or not double jump (countered by SH Knee).
So guys. Apparently Falcon's U-throw Knee isn't a legit combo if we DI away. He apparently has to Uair or guess whether we'll double jump (countered by FJ Knee) or not double jump (countered by SH Knee).
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I might have already known this. Explains why I can usually DI away with Marth and fair before the knee hits me.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik is magical. What a stupid character LOL.
Granted he can 50/50 the Knee or just be smart and do Uairs but seriously, hat's hilarious. Sheik is so silly sometimes. It's such a specific thing too.
Granted he can 50/50 the Knee or just be smart and do Uairs but seriously, hat's hilarious. Sheik is so silly sometimes. It's such a specific thing too.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
I never been punished for it at ALL! Its such a good way to rack up damage as well as good neddle play Im starting to feel much better vs puff man. Also what do you know about jab to f air? Is it legit because I have landed it a couple of times but feel I get lucky lol.
Im saying that Im starting to feel that sheik vs ganon isnt that bad for ganon but is still leaning towards sheik's favor. The momment anyone gets grabed its cg season which can mean a stock. Overall though im pretty cocky against ganon's in general. I love the match up and would gladly play any ganon in tourny.
Samus is so dumb. Everything you do just beats her and im not even that experianced against her. Its so bad im not even worried about missle pressure because sheik out beats with like everything lmao.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik vs Ganon is really silly.
Ganon's approach is really slow and awkward so most of them just camp and zone with Fair and Bair. Sometimes Fair or Bair is followed by a jab or F-tilt (or another aerial of some kind), but the bulk of their stuff will begin with an aerial. If you wait for that aerial and punish it (needles, DD grab/dash attack, etc), or hit him before his moves come out (especially valid vs his Fair) then you'll get some of the easiest combos of your life and win.
Ganon's Fair has almost double the L-cancel lag of Marth's Fair and many of his quick moves (jab) are beaten by crouching, so you have plenty of punishable things to work with when he's trying to undershoot his Fairs and wall you.
I strongly feel his Bair is much, much more problematic because of the much faster startup and much less lag, but that's another matter entirely. It's dealt with the same way, but it's just overall harder to punish.
Ganon's approach is really slow and awkward so most of them just camp and zone with Fair and Bair. Sometimes Fair or Bair is followed by a jab or F-tilt (or another aerial of some kind), but the bulk of their stuff will begin with an aerial. If you wait for that aerial and punish it (needles, DD grab/dash attack, etc), or hit him before his moves come out (especially valid vs his Fair) then you'll get some of the easiest combos of your life and win.
Ganon's Fair has almost double the L-cancel lag of Marth's Fair and many of his quick moves (jab) are beaten by crouching, so you have plenty of punishable things to work with when he's trying to undershoot his Fairs and wall you.
I strongly feel his Bair is much, much more problematic because of the much faster startup and much less lag, but that's another matter entirely. It's dealt with the same way, but it's just overall harder to punish.
soap
Smash Hero
lol, ive been getting uthrow kneed for years
not even trying to get out
just taking it and tryng to DI
not even trying to get out
just taking it and tryng to DI
Ryzol_
Smash Apprentice
Do you think the sheik vs fox matchup is about as even as the fox vs falco matchup (wrt fox), or is it closer to the marth sheik matchup (wrt marth)?
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
I'd say it's closer to Fox/Falco. Both people can mess each other up pretty well, it's just a little easier for Fox.
That being said, you could probably crank up the gay.
That being said, you could probably crank up the gay.
Twin_A
Smash Champion
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Just a note on the Sheik/Fox match-up. Wavedash back to ftilt stifles a lot of Fox's aggressive aerialing. Azen was using this on me with a significant amount of success in friendlies.
Afro_Chris
Smash Ace
anyone wana give me some tips on how to beat sheik as falcon :D as impossible as that sounds?
Afro - Don't get grabbed.
Don't approach recklessly with nairs. Try to force Sheik to throw needles in a bad spot and punish with SH dair into stuff.
Make every edgeguard count, hold the edge and make sure you punish sheik and hard. Or just reverse knee her off the stage and repeat.
If you get grabbed try to ASDI up and miss the tech. Rotate the stick and you can get out of the jab reset situation.
Pick a big stage.. uhhh........
If the sheik likes to spam ftilt run then shield the tilt then go for grabs.
Lemme see if I remember more
Don't approach recklessly with nairs. Try to force Sheik to throw needles in a bad spot and punish with SH dair into stuff.
Make every edgeguard count, hold the edge and make sure you punish sheik and hard. Or just reverse knee her off the stage and repeat.
If you get grabbed try to ASDI up and miss the tech. Rotate the stick and you can get out of the jab reset situation.
Pick a big stage.. uhhh........
If the sheik likes to spam ftilt run then shield the tilt then go for grabs.
Lemme see if I remember more
unknown522
Some guy
Afro's asking how to beat KK.
use falco.
use falco.
=( I can't beat KK either so nvm then
unknown522
Some guy
lol, KK's pretty good.
Gives me trouble, especially if I slip up for a second.
Gives me trouble, especially if I slip up for a second.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
i **** all sheiks that aren't phatgamer or z
as sad as this sounds .... CF vs sheik sounds easy to manipulate sheik into throwing those tiltsAfro - Don't get grabbed.
Don't approach recklessly with nairs. Try to force Sheik to throw needles in a bad spot and punish with SH dair into stuff.
Make every edgeguard count, hold the edge and make sure you punish sheik and hard. Or just reverse knee her off the stage and repeat.
If you get grabbed try to ASDI up and miss the tech. Rotate the stick and you can get out of the jab reset situation.
Pick a big stage.. uhhh........
If the sheik likes to spam ftilt run then shield the tilt then go for grabs.
Lemme see if I remember more
Twin_A
Smash Champion
Red rover red rover send teczero, Mew2king, or Kira right over
Actually I caught myself throwing a lot of tilts against scar.
Thats probably a good reason why I lost with sheik at Saffron.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
My sheik your what ever mm?