The Silly Kyle Video Archive and Critique Thread

[Queen B. Kyon]

Ahh ok, it's something I thought of doing against rob but didn't. If feels so..... boring lol. But yeah I need to learn to do what must be done.

 

[Eddie G]

Lol I know man. Luckily it never lasts too long if you manage to hit 'em enough or waste enough of the clock when you have the lead. They'll get discouraged from doing it and come back to fight you.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Because critiques happen often.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeilBbG7-b0&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAXUJj8HYT4&feature=relmfu

 

[Eddie G]

Only had time to watch the first set so far. When you're pinned to the ledge by ZSS down smashes like that, b-reverse toad from the ledge is a viable option (only when they're already reasonably damaged for decent knockback). It'll hit them away and plant your feet on the stage at the sane time.

You could also go for a ledgehop fair but it can be dangerous to gamble with the timing between d-smashes, do it at your own risk.

I don't suggest going for too many ledgejumps against YbM specifically because he is always at the ready to punish it. Mix it in occasionally at best.

That's all I've got tor now. The onstage fighting wasn't too bad, just beware the bread and butter landing traps she has, and respect her air game enough to cautiously box against her rather than forcing the issue aggressively from a neutral position, the trades will most often be in ZSS's favor. As with matchups like Toon Link, Lucario, Falco, etc.; sharpening your powershielding will help immensely in making an approach.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I watched the first vid... I don't know if you have played that person before but he/she seems to know you well. Your reaction time is abit slow. You allow them to do too much and feel comfortable to do whatever they want. All he did was go in lol. Try using dash attack more against zss. It beats like everything lol. You started to play more faster in game three. I think you just need more control of peach is all. I think you feel limited.

 

[Eddie G]

He's only comfortable because he already has a lot of Peach experience.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Ahh I see lol
floor game is where its at in this mu

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I wasn't really too focused in that set as to where if I was I'd probably do a lot more instead of getting hit by Dsmash all the time <___<. Maybe it's because I don't get to play ZSS, or as a matter of fact offline often.

If I'd gone to as many tournaments as Illmatic in these past (three?) years I'd have some good results due to experience. Any other tips? Those are always helpful. Thank you both.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I decided to actually commentate on vids of people who ask me for advice on them. I think it would be alot helpful and I can give advice on the spot. So if anyone wants me to do this for them for visual advice, let me know and I will gadly start doing this. And yes, im going back to being active again in giving advice on videos.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Dark Pch, I know we've had our disputes in the past, but I would love for you to watch my videos and critique them.

 

[Dark.Pch]

The beef I have with people slowly dies. It still might be there but it is hardly that serious to be an issue. so its w/e

Just give me the vids you want me to give a live credit

 

[Silly Kyle]

Cool, I have some semi-recent matches of my Peach vs. KiraFlax's and that I haven't posted yet

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

My recent tournament matches against Ed and his zelda/shiek.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1hZ9GivXnE Match 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAZ619p7IF4 Match 2

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Silly Kyle (Peach) vs Z (Pikachu)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDetRw3cZ9M

 

[Silly Kyle]

^Great video!

Some more awesome videos from E4U this past weekend:

Silly Kyle vs. SK92
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bydRJm4BTF8

SlayerZ vs. Mr. R
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ee1CcHTSA&feature=plcp

Some of our toughest matchups and we did boss as ****. We both lost to the same people. I lost to SK92 in Winner's and Mr. R in Loser's, and SlayerZ was the opposite of that.

Get hype! Cuz SlayerZ and I are going hard as ****! Better watch out, Illmatic!!

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[LanceStern]

^Great video!

Some more awesome videos from E4U this past weekend:

Silly Kyle vs. SK92
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bydRJm4BTF8

SlayerZ vs. Mr. R
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ee1CcHTSA&feature=plcp

Some of our toughest matchups and we did boss as ****. We both lost to the same people. I lost to SK92 in Winner's and Mr. R in Loser's, and SlayerZ was the opposite of that.

Get hype! Cuz SlayerZ and I are going hard as ****! Better watch out, Illmatic!!

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

I got a chance to announce those matches! So fun haha.

I drowned in pools (shuttle loop)... so I took 1st in consolation (amateur) bracket

 

[Eddie G]

You both played those matchups commendably Kyle! You're getting so damn good man.

 

[deepseadiva]

After watching Slayerz's match, I'm playing vs Marth entirely facing backwards. Simply compare how strong Peach can be with her butt facing Marth, vs how she deals when actually facing him. You do not touch a frame 4 fair wall with a 16 frame one, wow no.

 

[Nordal]

Fair and Bair are both important tools vs Marth. Fair beats everything while the hitbox is out, Bair is for punishing. You can use your *** to hit marth's head after nair. Little things.

 

[Eddie G]

To add to what Nordal said - dash attack isn't as devastating against Marth as it is in Melee but it still serves as a handy punisher against mistimed nairs, misspaced fairs, or a followup punish off of a powershield or any other frame advantaged situation at his tipper range. The key is to go for his feet (which are pretty vulnerable in various situations even with good spacing, quite annoying for Marth players in certain matchups).

And...ABUSE his linear recovery. I can't stress that enough. Time your ledgehogs, make him recover on stage and punish his up B landing lag with a ledgefloat aerial (or ledgefloat u-smash if he recovers too high) or whatever else would fit the situation. Use turnips to limit his recovery routes accordingly.

SlayerZ had the right idea that entire set. Those who are wondering how to play the Marth matchup effectively: start by watching that.

 

[Nordal]

SlayerZ played it well enough, but his edgeguarding could have been a lot more effective. Z dropping turnips for gimping is flashy and all, but it isn't practical because it doesn't have much knockback. It 'can' interupt marth's Up B, but it doesn't really send him anywhere and simply because of the location, we usually don't get a hit after from it. Down throw is way superior and IMO should always be used instead of Z dropping (when it comes to edgeguarding).

Down throw turnip toss sends him at a HORRIBLE angle for recovery. In most cases, one of four things will happen. He gets hit by it and you can use your float to edgeguard and gimp him for the stock; he avoids it, but you grab onto the ledge and he makes it back on stage (free Nair/Fair/whatever you want); he goes for the ledge, but you drop off Nair and hit him out of it (he can get stagespiked/sent away further and most likely lose his stock); you drop off the ledge and nair but he gets the ledge (you can usually still recover in this situation).

Whiffed Up B's should be punished on landing with float nair (unless at high % in which case, up smash duh). The reason for this is that I thiiiink at low %'s it legitimately combos into dash attack (which sends marth in the best direction you could want him; diagonal and up from you). Middle-> later %'s, Up B should be punished with side B, unless he lands on a platform, in which case you should use Uair (uair combos, duh).

I love dash attack. I love it so much. While it's a bit inconsistent with beating Marth's Nair head on, it is awesome at ****** his landings. If he lands with Fair, the hitbox is physically going in the same direction as our Fair (swinging from his head down), and our dash attack hits him where the end of his Fair is. It's a game of reaction time, but it's such a good tool for keeping him juggled.

Speaking of juggling, dash attack sends him at a great angle for combos because it puts him at the perfect spot for us to Uair juggle him, and his Fair doesn't serve any use at preventing it. He has airdodges, counter, and Dair, but airdodges will still usually let you get a hit, counter usually comes out too slow, and his Dair does beat our Uair directly, but it's laggy at the end and is risky as hell (so is his Up B which he can also use btw).

I feel like I'm rambling at this point, so I'll try to put some more collective thoughts on the matchup later. I've never thought marth vs peach was anything but even, but I can understand why people think he beats her. It's not an easy matchup to learn, but once you learn it it's so much fun because they just **** each other up.

 

[Eddie G]

I play the matchup from both sides quite frequently, and I believe he does beat her (albeit slightly). I agree with everything you said about the matchup, that is exactly how Peach wants to play it out. If the Marth is any good at the matchup, he'll play it reactionary and won't leave his feet too much (if he isn't using his nair/fair to intercept her, his tilts/jab are fantastic against her, DB being the usual punish and mixup tool as usual) - the exception being when he's swiping Peach out of the air before she can get anything started.

SlayerZ could have edgeguarded better; however in his defense I'll give him a bit of a pass on that since he was playing against one of the two top Marths in the world who recovers safely against s like it's his job, so I can't necessarily blame SlayerZ for wanting to mix it up a bit. The options you suggested with a turnip are the most effective choices for sure though.

 

[Nordal]

No need to make excuses; I specifically remember him Z dropping at one point when he could've used D throw and probably taken the stock. Tilts and jab are okay against her, if they're perfectly spaced. The main thing that would give marth an advantage in the matchup is early KO's from tipper f smash (since he can gimp us almost as well as we can gimp him).

 

[Eddie G]

***** DAT AIN'T NO EXCUSE. HE PLAYIN' MISTAH ARR.

Tipper F-smash is situational, I wouldn't determine an advantage based on something like that. The fact that he can swat her out of the air, interrupt her momentum, make her have to work to get in, make it difficult for her to get off of the ledge, and so on; things like that are what define his advantage. He's considered - lite for a reason.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

No need to make excuses; I specifically remember him Z dropping at one point when he could've used D throw and probably taken the stock

Agreed

SlayerZ did an excellent job (nice use of Turnips) - to add to what's been said, SlayerZ needs to angle his shield up whenever Marth is coming down from the upper diagonal with a Fair etc., he got poked a couple of times

And don't forget that delicious OoS Jab

 

[Nordal]

Marth can swat us out of the air if we're not space appropriately for Fair, but we do the same thing to him with our Bair. And hey, it happens... a lot. Because people aren't perfect.

It's not difficult at all getting in on marth.... lol. Especially with a character that has hitboxes like Peach (then again I'm used to using pikachu vs Marth). Our run speed makes it a little harder than it should be, but with Fair, Bair, and Dash attack, I've never really felt too much difficulty. It's hard for peach to get off the ledge vs any character. Marth is no exception (though he is a tough one to get past).

SlayerZ did have a cute turnip game, but he needs to work on Float Nair OoS. When you have a turnip in hand and are that up close to Marth, it puts you at a HUGE disadvantage if you don't have this tool. He can dance and pressure and do w/e the hell he wants to your shield while you're stuck in there because glide toss takes too long to come out. Float Nair helps alleviate A LOT of the pressure, and it really does wonders vs a lot of his aerials on shield (as long as it's not spaced far away, which is won't always be because people aren't perfect).

 

[Marcosplay]

Hi!
i'd like you to give me some advices about the following replays.
Grand Finals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of8fHbZs8k4&feature=g-all-u
Looser Finals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms_mzRaOUH4&feature=relmfu

Inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQcVvH1_Fw&feature=my_favorites&list=FLuYezhQKiPFCnnrcKN9uhJw

 

[Eddie G]

Nair OoS vs Marth? Nooooo lol. I don't care how imperfect people are, no one worth their weight is going to consistently space that badly. A lot of Marths will simply bait stuff like the Nair out and punish with DB, a tilt, or a jab.

 

[Nordal]

You're an idiot; read what I typed. When you have an item in hand, your SH nair option is eliminated, and people tend to play around your shield more (I sure as hell do as pikachu; SH Fair <3). Float nair eliminates a lot of pressure that people put on you for having an item in hand and hiding in your shield. Float bair is nice too, but the hitbox is way smaller in the front (and the positioning for both is different).

Float nair obviously isn't the answer to everything. It's an option to relieve some shield pressure every peach but me and Silly Kyle feels when they have a turnip in hand and are hiding in their shield.

 

[Marcosplay]

Hi!
i'd like you to give me some advices about the following replays.
Grand Finals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of8fHbZs8k4&feature=g-all-u
Looser Finals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms_mzRaOUH4&feature=relmfu

Inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQcVvH1_Fw&feature=my_favorites&list=FLuYezhQKiPFCnnrcKN9uhJw

any advice?

 

[LanceStern]

You're an idiot; read what I typed. When you have an item in hand, your SH nair option is eliminated, and people tend to play around your shield more (I sure as hell do as pikachu; SH Fair <3). Float nair eliminates a lot of pressure that people put on you for having an item in hand and hiding in your shield. Float bair is nice too, but the hitbox is way smaller in the front (and the positioning for both is different).

Float nair obviously isn't the answer to everything. It's an option to relieve some shield pressure every peach but me and Silly Kyle feels when they have a turnip in hand and are hiding in their shield.

1. Why you have to call people idiots?

2. If the marth is spacing right (watch Mr. R vs Slayerz) you won't have time to short-float and nair. He can bait on your shield and while you're inputting the button combination to ground float he'll have dancing bladed or hit you with another retreating fair.

 

[Nordal]

1. I don't sugarcoat. He's looking at this game in black and white (this doesn't work often cuz everyone just spaces so well and no one decides to cross up on shields and radda radda ra) and all smash games have sooooo much grey area it's not even funny.

2. GF nair should come out in about 3 frames if you buffer everything right. It's ****ing fast when you actually practice it, trust me on this.

You people also need to read instead of seeing GF Nair and then assuming I'm saying you can punish everything he does with it. It's a tool that's useful to punish mispaced aerials or attempted crossups (European marths love landing behind you) and it's a much, much, MUCH heavier punish than SH Nair or glide toss OoS due to the combos you can get from it (I think it actually does cancel fast enough for some legitimate combos).

When SlayerZ had a turnip in hand and was in his shield, Mr. R wasn't afraid to get close. Glide toss takes time to come out, and you can get grabbed/ tilted, w/e'd before item toss actually comes out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DzYbnvXbcTU#t=72s

I'm not saying the Uair was spaced well. I'm not saying I'm just so much better at the matchup, or that Trevonte's marth is anywhere near the level that SlayerZ had to play against. It was just us ****ing around in a friendly. I'm just showing that:

1. Nair does come out fast, and don't you ever forget it
2. Almost every other peach in that same situation would have glide tossed away. I saw plenty of OoS nair used by SlayerZ (particularly when Mr.R would aerial Side B his shield), and a float nair might have worked better since it could've stringed into dash attack and other stuff.

Overall, SlayerZ is a FANTASTIC player and he played the matchup decently. There were just A LOT of things he could have done to have prevented a convincing loss. These include:

Proper edgeguarding (none of that Z dropping bull****)

Recovery in general. He was always facing the stage, and reverse toad off stage makes life so much easier vs marth. Always use float first and save your double jump. Float will cover the distance you need to make it back on stage, double jump + Bair will let you punish attempted Fairs that he'll use to knock you back off stage (if he does hit you with Fair I THINK it always clashes unless it's tippered). You also have double jump airdodge since he'd expect the Bair.

Punishes in general. I saw him going for float nair combos when marth was landing after a missed Up B, but then he'd jab after and get up B'd in the process. Nair-> dash attack is beautiful at low %'s. If you're not comfortable with that then hump him with side B.

 

[-LzR-]

Can't you just throw the turnip OoS and punish pretty much everything? /goes back to lurk

 

[Nordal]

No, turnip OoS takes longer to come out than Nair.

 

[-LzR-]

You sure? I mean, you don't have to input jump to throw a turnip and unlike nair turnips go quite far.

 

[Eddie G]

Sugarcoating or not...choose your words wisely next time or we're going to have a ****ing problem. It's called mutual ****ing respect Nordal. I am one of the last people who would be considered to look at this game in black and white (have you forgotten some of my wacky suggestions or strategies in the past?). One instance/disagreement/misunderstanding does not define my entire outlook on this game. I read your post, my response still stands.

Heed my words. Address as you would in person. Second and only chance at civility.

 

[LanceStern]

It's not about sugar coating, it's about showing some respect to a fellow board-user and not flaming people for any reason under the sun.

That Nair was fast, but there's a problem with the video you posted:

1) You powershielded (no shieldlag or push whatsoever)
2) He daired (meaning he has horrible landing lag) with HORRIBLE spacing

Your nair was destined to hit. But if either one of the two things I mentioned hadn't happened, you'd be looking at a fair, fsmash, DB, Dolphin slash or jab to the face.

 

[Eddie G]

Indeed, and let's not forget that while those crossups are definitely something Marth likes to do - it's not something he should do too much against characters with strong OoS games. The ideal way for Marth to play the matchup is to abuse his range with his quicker options as designated punishers, and keep her in front of him. The formula hasn't really changed from Melee, just replace his old godlike grab with his now improved DB. If you have any questions, just ask Illmatic or any other Peach about the simple yet effective way Darc plays the matchup.

 

[Nordal]

It's not about sugar coating, it's about showing some respect to a fellow board-user and not flaming people for any reason under the sun.

That Nair was fast, but there's a problem with the video you posted:

1) You powershielded (no shieldlag or push whatsoever)
2) He daired (meaning he has horrible landing lag) with HORRIBLE spacing

Your nair was destined to hit. But if either one of the two things I mentioned hadn't happened, you'd be looking at a fair, fsmash, DB, Dolphin slash or jab to the face.

That wasn't flaming. Believe me, that wasn't anywhere near flaming. My nair wasn't "destined" to hit; I had a turnip in hand. If he had done a well spaced Fair/Uair, guess what? I probably would have glide tossed away.

1) I did powershield, but everyone should be powershielding SOME stuff. It's not exactly difficult to do.
2) He used Uair, not Dair, which usually has more shield push, but as you did point out, I powershielded.

Indeed, and let's not forget that while those crossups are definitely something Marth likes to do - it's not something he should do too much against characters with strong OoS games. The ideal way for Marth to play the matchup is to abuse his range with his quicker options as designated punishers, and keep her in front of him. The formula hasn't really changed from Melee, just replace his old godlike grab with his now improved DB. If you have any questions, just ask Illmatic or any other Peach about the simple yet effective way Darc plays the matchup.

Crossups are more player dependent, especially if the person loves staying in their shield. Peach's Bair helps counter the style you described, but both should be hitting each other about equal amounts. The "best" way for marth to play the matchup is to keep Peach off stage or in the air where he REALLY ***** her.

And no offense, but I think Illmatic would be the last person I would ask questions about concerning marth.

 

[Eddie G]

That much I can agree with...on both points. (no offense Illdawg, I remember you hate Marth lol)

Most of what I referred to was what he would rely on from a neutral position in order to create those advantageous positions you described, but those are definitely the positions he wants to be in against her for sure.

And Darc just ***** Peach in general. He's all "bite the pillow, I'm going in dry" with it lol.