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The Simpsons Mafia || GAME OVER! Who lived hap-diddly-aply every after?

Vinylic.

Woke?
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
15,864
Location
New York, New York
Switch FC
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Damn, this is making me look real bad, I'm telling ya.

Let me just put it this way:

What you did in the past pages was you being lazy, like you stated before.
And then ran was telling you stuff, and I think that you're just blatantly pushing a lynch and lying about all of it, and then then you vote DH.
But, it looks like to me you're still not being pretty sincere, and I might even take word for soup and the rest's thoughts on you.

If ran would keep that argument on you for next time and you're pretty chill enough to do something, what would you do?
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,086
Location
Mass
So you don't like my interactions with baddy because of their wishy-washiness...

quick definition check:
wish·y-wash·y   [wish-ee-wosh-ee, -waw-shee] Show IPA
adjective
1.
lacking in decisiveness; without strength or character; irresolute.

So because I wasn't confident about baddyScum 2 pages into the game (or even now), you think I'm scum? Do you have a confident read on everyone? of course not... even wrt your read on me you say that it's not a strong enough scum-lean for you to want to lynch me. So i don't understand what you're getting at, and why you feel that my 'wishy washiness' is a problem
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,086
Location
Mass
Damn, this is making me look real bad, I'm telling ya.
nothings making you look bad, i'm just having trouble parsing some of your posts.


Let me just put it this way:

What you did in the past pages was you being lazy, like you stated before.
And then ran was telling you stuff, and I think that you're just blatantly pushing a lynch and lying about all of it, and then then you vote DH.
But, it looks like to me you're still not being pretty sincere, and I might even take word for soup and the rest's thoughts on you./QUOTE]

idk what to tell you... it'd be incredibly stupid of me as scum to blatantly push a lynch 2 pages into the game with nothing behind it. It would also be completely against my meta, as soup can tell you from LoM mafia and dh/soup can tell you from catherine mafia.



If ran would keep that argument on you for next time and you're pretty chill enough to do something, what would you do?
vinyl, I'm not sure if I'm the only one having trouble understanding what you're saying... Are you asking me what I would do if ran kept pushing me?

If so, I would just continue to defend myself/point out flaws in his argument but beyond that theres not much I can too cuz ran seems pretty confident in his read and I can understand the emotional need to want to keep latching on me due to him thinking I was scum in crm and me just refuting/ridiculing his arguments.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
5,086
Location
Mass
EBWOP

Damn, this is making me look real bad, I'm telling ya.
nothings making you look bad, i'm just having trouble parsing some of your posts.


Let me just put it this way:

What you did in the past pages was you being lazy, like you stated before.
And then ran was telling you stuff, and I think that you're just blatantly pushing a lynch and lying about all of it, and then then you vote DH.
But, it looks like to me you're still not being pretty sincere, and I might even take word for soup and the rest's thoughts on you.
idk what to tell you... it'd be incredibly stupid of me as scum to blatantly push a lynch 2 pages into the game with nothing behind it. It would also be completely against my meta, as soup can tell you from LoM mafia and dh/soup can tell you from catherine mafia.

If ran would keep that argument on you for next time and you're pretty chill enough to do something, what would you do?
vinyl, I'm not sure if I'm the only one having trouble understanding what you're saying... Are you asking me what I would do if ran kept pushing me?

If so, I would just continue to defend myself/point out flaws in his argument but beyond that theres not much I can too cuz ran seems pretty confident in his read and I can understand the emotional need to want to keep latching on me due to him thinking I was scum in crm and me just refuting/ridiculing his arguments.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
3,739
So because I wasn't confident about baddyScum 2 pages into the game (or even now), you think I'm scum? Do you have a confident read on everyone? of course not... even wrt your read on me you say that it's not a strong enough scum-lean for you to want to lynch me. So i don't understand what you're getting at, and why you feel that my 'wishy washiness' is a problem
Of course I don't have a confident read on anyone. You know who I do have a confident read on? My scumpicks. You have barley pursued your scumpiks, which, at this point, IS scummy. This isn't RVS. There's certainly been enough content.

Also, "Not strong enough" was for my vinyl vote.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
5,086
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Of course I don't have a confident read on anyone. You know who I do have a confident read on? My scumpicks. You have barley pursued your scumpiks, which, at this point, IS scummy. This isn't RVS. There's certainly been enough content.

Also, "Not strong enough" was for my vinyl vote.
Lol you just contradicted yourself... ignoring that

Are you missing what I've been saying this entire time, he was BARELY a scumread of mine. It was literally like my 4th post of the game and I had just been messing around before then. He was just the only person I had inkling of dislike towards at the time.

You have an issue with me for not pushing him strongly off of a lackluster barely-scum read. Ran has an issue because he thinks I was actually trying to push him of a lackluster barely-scum read.

I'm saying that it's completely ridiculous for me to push him and that that's clearly not what I'm doing. DH says I should have been more confident and pushed him, Ran says I did push him and that that is scummy.

DH's position is far more nonsensical and I don't understand how he can legitimately think I'm scummy for not having a confident scumread right at the get go. So DH is scum

all aboard?
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
3,739
"Anyone" was a typo. Even then, reading your post shows that you were talking about "everyone"

Are you missing what I've been saying this entire time, he was BARELY a scumread of mine. It was literally like my 4th post of the game and I had just been messing around before then. He was just the only person I had inkling of dislike towards at the time.
How many times do I have to say it? Your 166 and 189 also say badwolf scum. These aren't from the get go; they've happened after quite some time. Quit trying to use the "it was straight from the get go" excuse.

You have an issue with me for not pushing him strongly off of a lackluster barely-scum read.
It's a scumread, but you're saying stuff like "Idk, various things make me swing back and forth on him." It reeks of you playing it safe. It's nor nonsensical, it makes perfect sense if you're scum with badwolf. Hell, look at celeb, where you had a weak scumread on me (your partner), but hardly pushed it at all. It's the same thing here.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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my 166 and 189 never paint him as scum, I say idk how I feel about that slot. So idk what you're getting at. And plus, both these posts occurred AFTER you had me as a scum read, so you can't try to use that as reasoning for why you thought I was scum. If you're not referring to my first couple posts, why exactly did you think I was scum back then? Your #86, shows that you WERE referring to my first couple posts... so huh?

the ****? it's not a scumread. How are you going to tell me what my own scum read is? wtf. How can you miss what I've been saying this entire game.

It reeks of me playing it safe because badwolf is my partner? Ok this is new, so your reason for me as scum, is because I have a scumread (which I don't) on badwolf and I'm playing it safe because he's my scum partner? So do you think baddy is scum now? Is my being scum solely connected to his being scum? Or do you still think I'm scummy if he isn't scum?

Because the idea that I don't actually have a strong read on baddy is so far-fetch'd to you? You think a better explanation for why I haven't pushed badwolf is because I'm his scum partner playing it safe, rather than because I don't have a scum read on him (like i've been saying this entire time)
 

vanderzant

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
271
Location
Beneath my dreaming tree


"Dad, why'd you take me to a gay steel mill?"



Deadline: 12.01am 30th August EST
With 8 Alive it takes 5 to lynch!


Vote Count
Macman :b::b:: Ranmaru, Dark Horse
Badwolf28738 :b::b:: Яagnarock, SummonerAU
Dark Horse :b:: Macman

Not Voting (3)
Vinyl
Badwolf28738
Ori_bro
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
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Messages
5,086
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What did you mean by "badwolf is bad"?
That he's literally bad, (it was mostly a play on his username which is why I have the 'idk' in parentheses to clarify)

I can understand how this would be confusing to you but I did clarify it when you asked me to, and in that clarification i explicitly say that I don't have a solid read on him. Also this occurred after you said you thought I was scum so this couldn't have been you reason. What was you reason?

and respond to the other q's in my post

and what happened to everyone else today? specifically ran, I want to hear what he has to say/his response to my post.
 

#HBC | BadWolf

Crusader of Ponies
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
974
Location
Right behind you.
That he's literally bad, (it was mostly a play on his username which is why I have the 'idk' in parentheses to clarify)

I can understand how this would be confusing to you but I did clarify it when you asked me to, and in that clarification i explicitly say that I don't have a solid read on him. Also this occurred after you said you thought I was scum so this couldn't have been you reason. What was you reason?

and respond to the other q's in my post

and what happened to everyone else today? specifically ran, I want to hear what he has to say/his response to my post.
Which post? Can't say that I'll get to it tonight but I can try.
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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@badwolf
oh it's cool to see you don't feel like responding to any of the stuff people have said about you

really top notch play, i'm so proud
Can you respond/comment on some of these posts about you?

All badwolf quotes:

Can you explain how your read went from 'shaky' to scum read in these few posts. Could you also elaborate on why your Unvote seems like you were only voting him to make him care about the game?
Can you please stop posting obnoxious pony images as well, that'd be real neato
Vote:Badwolf
Getting to Badwolf, it's simply not the same case, because Badwolf has a different way of playing this game, through observation I've noticed that Badwolf tends to get really angry or stubborn when someone gives him chase, maybe even a bit sarcastic. Attitude was an important factor to me, but something more important was how he was responding. Remember that talk about consistencies as alignment? Badwolf has his own, but I can't simply read him the same because Badwolf has an anti-town vibe about him that's hard to pin, right now I feel he has that same vibe. It's plausible that he's town but right now I dislike him merely because his overreaction to Vinyl. and him clinging behind his role, there's a guilty conscience there and it seems a bit preserved, Badwolf can be a headache but something sticks out to me especially because it seems like a ruse to seem town. I've tried to get Badwolf to explain his actions but I don't recall (I should possibly re-read) him saying anything about it or simply shrugging it off. The only other factors are between Summoner and Ori, which have both been a bit inactive. I skimmed Summoner's post as much as I skimmed Ori's, but now that I've cleared the fog a bit I'd like everyone to talk about this possibilities of one of them being scum.
 

SummonerAU

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
1,358
Location
.
Badwolf, you need to respond to my post about you. You should also add on how you feel about the DH Macman interaction of the last few posts.

Vinyl, what information would you get from knowing Macman's alignment right now and how would you reads changes on people with each option?

Ranmaru, I'm sure you'll cover this in your next post, but do you have anything else you consider scummy about Macman's posts after your original push on him? I disagree with your original push I and see it as lazy play at the start of the game. I'm interested in your views on his current posts as I think they've been pretty good. For example, what do you think of Macman's current suspicion of Dark Horse while under pressure from a few people. Do you think he's trying to shift suspicion or do you think it's a legitimate point against DH?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
Hey summoner while you're here who else are your picks besides Badwolf
 

SummonerAU

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
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Location
.
Right now, I don't really have any solid picks. I feel ok with Macman, Ranmaru, and you. I was ok with DH a few pages ago, but I need to consider his answers to Macman's questions before I make a decision about how I feel with him. Right now, his point about Macman's 166 and 189 that he read as Macman saying Badwolf is scum is a weird way to read those posts imo and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I'm posting during a uni break since nobody posts when I'm at home at night and the recent macman discussions have dominated the spotlight for awhile. I haven't had much time to mull it over. The only other player left is Ori and Ori has given zip.

tl;dr No picks really. PoE leads to Ori and I'm not sure about DH yet.

Wait up, DH, if you think Badwolf is tied to Macman from macman's play, what do you think about Badwolf right now and do you see anything that supports your ideas from Badwolf's play?
 

#HBC | Mac

Nobody loves me
BRoomer
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Messages
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I can understand how this would be confusing to you but I did clarify it when you asked me to, and in that clarification i explicitly say that I don't have a solid read on him. Also this occurred after you said you thought I was scum so this couldn't have been you reason. What was you reason?
EBWOP: I can understand how this would be confusing to you but I did clarify it when you asked me to, and in that clarification i explicitly say that I don't have a solid read on him. Also those two posts occurred after you said you thought I was scum so they couldn't have been your reason for thinking I was scum. What was your reason?


also sorry for dominating the thread
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
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SW-0654 7794 0698
Lol I fell asleep. I'll be responding to posts now.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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Before I get to them, Soup, what is your stance on Dark Horse?
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
3,739
That he's literally bad, (it was mostly a play on his username which is why I have the 'idk' in parentheses to clarify)
Excuse me while I beat my head against the wall several times due to my own stupidity.

I can understand how this would be confusing to you but I did clarify it when you asked me to, and in that clarification i explicitly say that I don't have a solid read on him. Also this occurred after you said you thought I was scum so this couldn't have been you reason. What was you reason?
I initially thought so do due to your initial "I would pick badwolf." Yeah, it was weak, but I thought that you were serious with "badwolf is bad," which was why I kept pushing you, as that came a lot later.

Summoner's question prompted me to reread badwolf, and I've found that he's actually been pretty damn scummy. Look at his early interaction with Vinyl. The "trying to claim a town role" comes completley out of the blue; before that, vinyl was talking about how badwolf buddy him as scum, and isn't buddying him now, which is far from "trying to claim a town role." In addition, his 98, where he votes macman, is incredibly safe ("This rea is shaky, but i'm going to vote macman"). So yeah, can definetley see badwolfscum without banking on macman scum.

Unvote, Vote: Badwolf
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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@DH: Stance on Soup + Ori?

Can I get a post #?

I'm going to eat now so I'll actually be afk for a bit.
Can you actually read the damn thread and look yourself? You haven't commented on much but the Bad wolf wagon. I want more opinions (not just reads, because even those mostly don't have reasons)
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
3,739
Soup town.

Ori leaning scum. The only things I rememer him doing was questioning people on the badwolf wagon and then put badwolf as scum, which reeks as scum initially trying to defend their partner, then starting to bus when it doesn't work.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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Elaborate on Soup town, DH.

@Summoner: I'll do so once Soup responds.
 

SummonerAU

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,358
Location
.
Oh right, sorry. I'm pretty scattered right now since I'm dealing with my laptop not being fixed after I sent it off for two weeks to be fixed.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
3,739
Soup's town because I find his pushes to be genuine, for lack of a better turn (I.E his push on vinyl), and agree with his reads.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
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@Macman:

It is situational, I agree. But, you did say that that was the reason you were voting me. And the point I was (and am) trying to get through to you is that's a faulty reason for voting me because it doesn't say anything about with regards to being scum if that action isn't more likely for scum to do than town. (I'm not saying you said it was more or less likely, I'm saying that if its not more likely for scum to do than that reason is faulty)
I don't get why I can't just say "I think x is scum because of his actions here, which I think are done so he can ______ [scum motivation]". To make it easier for me to see, can you use two examples of the wrong and right way to illustrate what you are saying.

Your response is that, I'm being general and abstract, while you're being specific in that you think I (specifically) have a reason to leave my vote on baddy. But what you need to understand is that me leaving my vote on baddy is NOT why you think I'm scum/a reason for me being scum. Which is the point I've been trying to make. You say you have reasons for why me as scum would leave my vote on baddy, but the act of me leaving my vote on baddy is not why you think i'm scum, but rather the reasons behind that action are why you think i;m scum. Do you see the difference? and do you see how I'm ****in right? =D
What... :confused: Like I said above, my usual thought process when voting is "I am voting X because I don't like this action, because it seems to me like he is _____________ [scum motivation]"

So, you say that my vote is invalid because I use the actual ACTION as being the reason, and not the reasons behind it (which I also state). I don't see why my vote would be invalid if I also state the reasons, as you can still see my thought process.


I hate you.
:cool:

Not really.
:urg:

I didn't ask you why you think I might do it because you already told me the reason you thought I was scum was because of it. So I was attacking that and showing you the illogicality. Had I known that you had a deeper reason for why I might have done that, and that that deeper reason was why you thought I was scum, than I would have asked. THere was no way for me to have know this though.
Ok then, fair enough.

And obviously I'm trying to force the judgement in my favor. Obviously I would try to defend myself. You think this is scummy?
Sort of. You see, I find one defending themselves is neccessary, yet I don't expect people to try to argue deeply to do so. I just think they would say "I was doing this because of this", or rather that they clarified their actions and showed it was in a town mindset. I just always think of "Would scum do this?" as a way for scum to defend themselves, which is why I found it scummy. (This is why I mentioned wifom, because I was taught that scum will always try to defend themselves with wifom)

Yet, you have given one example of you doing the same as town in that dgames game, so I'm re-evaluating my stance.

obv im defending myself, etc. I'm nott trying to eliminate the possibility of scum doing that, I'm trying to show you that that's not a reason for me being scum. My point was not 'scum wouldn't ever do this'
Ok then.

not tryna justify my vote, etc. This also doesn't really address why you think that I would have actually tried to go with a baddy lynch 2 days into the game based off of no reasoning.
You say that, but your statement "But I do think he is most likely scum" sounds like you were, in a way. Do you disagree?

I'm voting darkhorse because I think his reason for thinking i'm scum is ****ty.

With that said, why do you think I was leaving my vote on baddy? Is it like you said earlier: because I wanted to get baddy/you lynched?
Well, regarding You vs Dark Horse, I do see it as different factions between the two of you. In fact I do have reason to believe it may be him.

The reason why I think you were voting Baddy was because you may have not had as much options on who to vote.

ran: an example of me saying would scum do x, when trying to defend myself



This is just one that I can actually remember, I've also done it multiple times trying to defend other people or trying to delve deeper into someones thought process. (like when I was defending J to Tblock in my last game) This is basically how I think about the game.

Which is why I think its ridiculous when you say **** like I'm trying to 'slander' you or 'twist things to my favor', when all I was doing was my basic way of reasoning about mafia.
Ok then, thank you. Like I said above, because of this I'll have to re-evaluate my stance on you but I will keep you on IGMEOU. Same as I did with Rake in gheb's game. In fact, I think I may be starting to get a town read on you. You'll see why in my next post. (Basically it's PoE)

sorry for this long drawn out crap with ran everyone.



which i do all the time.. :rolleyes:

twist things in my favor? you mean by defending myself and arguing with you?
Yes, I have already explained above why I found it scummy.

Unvote
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
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SW-0654 7794 0698
On Soup/DH:

If you vote Vinyl.

He just votes Vinyl and wants me to get on his wagon without much of a reason. I didn't really know what he was going for, but this is something to keep in mind with the rest of his actions. In fact, Soup: Why did you vote Vinyl and want me (and maybe others) to join the wagon?

Unvote; Vote: Badwolf
Here it seemed like a quick reaction to Badwolf's response to me when I said I saw him viewing and not post yet. What soup doesn't realize that it seems Badwolf has GENERALLY been playing safe, and not just per his alignment. Remember Gheb's game? I told him to be more serious because he was starting to be a hindrance to his alignment (Scum or Town), and he said he would take the advice to heart. So I didn't really find his response as scummy, it made sense. I felt Soup's jump on Badwolf was opportunistic.

Wow that wasn't the reaction I wasn't expecting at all honestly.

There's nothing really to post about Badwolf, I was just prodding you to see what reaction I could get and hopefully start discussion, I tried the same with Vinyl. as he's more telling with his reactions to things but you kept your head cool for this one.
Here, Soup shows that Badwolf showed a reaction he didn't expect. Yet, how did that reflect on his reads? He says he was prodding to get discussion up (which did) but I don't feel like that was the reason he was doing so. He says Badwolf kept his head cool for that, so that must mean it wasn't scum motivated or what? Soup, can you explain your thought process here? Was this a scum reaction or town reaction?

Macman is welcome on the brocrew. broteam. brogang. Whatever.

I really wish you didn't have to take an hour to respond Badwolf but I'll wait.
I didn't like that Soup was already accepting Mac into the brocrew without much content from him or Soup attempting to read him. This felt like buddy connection here, at first.

I was surprised that you had such surface reads regardless of treating this as RVS, why are some things more telling than others in your eyes? Macman only made one joking post about buddying me and then a vote on Ranmaru for some reason.
I don't see what the point of Soup critisizing Bad's reads for being surface level even though it was still RVS. I felt this was Soup trying to make a connection between Mac and Bad, even though Soup was fine with Mac already. Soup, can you explain why it was important to ask Badwolf about this? How did it help you find scum?

Vote: Vinyl

Dead serious here



Wait a sec...
Dark Horse votes Vinyl yet doesn't express why, yet says "Dead serious here"

I get the feeling he's still joking around.

Come to think of it, consider my vote on him in spirit



Aiight
I ask him, yet he cuts the question out from the quote and doesn't answer, yet does say he has a vote on Macman in spirit. I feel this may be scum motivated in re-reading. I felt at the time it was him agreeing to support me, yet he says that wasn't focused on my push on Mac at all. So, Dark Horse: What exactly did Macman do that set your alarms off besides my push on him?

Unvote, Vote: Macman
DH's vote here seems like DH trying to get on macman's wagon since he said he'd support me in spirit, yet he hasn't given the reason why he did before, since Macman said that AFTER DH said he already was considering Mac. It doesn't line up. I feel this is a bit opportunistic.

I voted mac because I didn't like his interactions with badwolf, he had said that he thought badwolf is scum, yet the reads useless as he hadn't done any scumhunting. And now, after he's done joking, he still thinks badwolf's scum, though he says IDK.

I voted you because I disliked your origional interactions with badwolf; they reminded me of my noobscum interactions in celeb rehab. Though I wouldn't consider it telling enough to lynch off of right now, I did feel like pressuring you further, via the dead serious vote.
Bold + Underlined:

I don't see the point of him voting Vinyl because of how he himself acted in Celeb. Everyone acts and thinks differently so this seems like him trying to justify his vote on vinyl with a bad reason (him trying to apply his own actions to other people's thoughts+actions, no other way I can explain it), especially since he didn't consider it enough to lynch. Also consider DH's "Oh I was doing it to pressure" is on the same line's as Soup's early pressure as well, and consider DH voted Vinyl (right below the bad vote) on page 1 as well.

Playing mafia is fun.

Anyways, I asked the inactivity question because I've got way too many town-reads currently right now, I'm reading DH/Macman/Ranmaru as my main ones and leaning town on Vinyl. I still dislike Badwolf a ton but I believe that Vinyl/Badwolf aren't aligned and I'd like to get rid of one of them to solidify the other, I'm fairly confident in my reads on the formers I mentioned simply because they each have specific tells I look for.

Right now, I disagree with Ranmaru's push but his general anxiousness and willingness to play the game is townie, it's understandable to come to conclusion that meta isn't a tell here, but some players are just really simplistic about it, I don't see an inconsistency with RanmaruTown as usual. Macman has been addressed, and DH falls under the category of his willingness like Ranmaru and kind of Vinyl., these are all players I can read easily simply because of their consistencies as alignment.
I also don't like that Soup has a weak reason for having a town read on DH. DH also has soup as town yet doesn't give a reason at first, and once he does it is also weak.

166. It's an issue because of your... "wishy-washyness?" in posts such as 189.



...I was talking to vinyl

I honestly haven't been paying that much attention to ran's push on mac. Give me a sec...
I thought you have. :c Please read my question above to you.

I have a scum read on DH and Soup from all this. Individual tells and connections. If DH flips scum I deff think Soup is scum with him. Badwolf is an option to look into afterwords, but I don't think so now. I mean I had a town read on him but his unvote on Mac was a bit weird, since it was inconsistent with his reads. Yet, I can see it as Mac just seeming town to him (since he started caring) so that could have been why Baddy unvoted. I like Summoner's initiative here.

Vote: Dark Horse

ALL ABOARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD
 

ranmaru

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@Summoner: Yes, as you can see I started to re-evaluate my stance on Macman. Initially, I had a scum read on Soup very early in the day but pursued Macman first to see how Soup would react to it. (I thought they were scum together at first but could see this as Soup just giving a town read on Macman just cuz, and to throw me off) Thankfully, I got a solidified read on Macman and can see the possibility of him being town. I see Soup as scum, and had started to see DH as scum after re-evaluating my stance on Macman. Basically, I see that Macman may also try to argue things as town just because he likes to see into people's minds, and I have no other reason to believe he is scum.

Now then, I would like for you to look into Dark Horse, do you agree with my reasons on him, and on Soup as well?

Also, I want to know. How would you feel if we lynched Dark Horse over Badwolf today? Would you be ok with it?
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

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Ran, the reason I had voted vinyl without expicitly stating reason was because the moment you mention pressure, it's gone. If noobscum see them be voted for no reason, they get nervous that that person has evidence against them. Mentioning that it was pressure would show that I actually had nothing good against vinyl. Of course my point against vinyl was weak, hence why I decided to presure vinyl to see if I could get any other tells.

For the "vote in spirit," it was pressure because I felt macman was still joking around, and wanted him to get out of that. The vote was because I thought that he actually was serious, and had done something scummy.

Also, if everyone acts and thinks differently, then why are there things such as scumtells? I felt as though what vinyl was doing could potentially be a nobbscum tell, hence why I pressured him.

Also, I feel like I need to yell this, now that I have an opporitunity:

IF YOU VOTE SOME ONE AND SAY IT'S FOR PRESSURE, YOU ARE ACCOMPLISHING VERY LITTLE, AS SCUM KNOW THAT YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH AGAINST THEM. IF YOU DON'T MENTION ANYTHING, SCUM COULD THINK THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING, AND BE A WHOLE HELL LOT MORE TELLING.
 

ranmaru

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Sure sure. What is your read on Vinyl then? I also don't see you as the type to pressure vote. Unless your vote on Badwolf in Gheb's game was a pressure vote? I'd expect you to vote accordingly with reasons. Now then, I would think you would have a legit vote AFTER all that but I don't really see it that way. Check this out:

Summoner's question prompted me to reread badwolf, and I've found that he's actually been pretty damn scummy. Look at his early interaction with Vinyl. The "trying to claim a town role" comes completley out of the blue; before that, vinyl was talking about how badwolf buddy him as scum, and isn't buddying him now, which is far from "trying to claim a town role." In addition, his 98, where he votes macman, is incredibly safe ("This rea is shaky, but i'm going to vote macman"). So yeah, can definetley see badwolfscum without banking on macman scum.

Unvote, Vote: Badwolf
Bold, I don't see how this is scum motivation? Did Badwolf ever call Vinyl scum? Also, check these quotes: (below Badwolf's quote, the quotes of you)

Underlined, I find you trying to twist Badwolf's words into something scummy so you can jump on him. Now that we add the quote + context:

Vote: Vinyl

Dead serious here



Wait a sec...
You bold Soup's statement that everyone would just claim vt in this setup, to justify his own reason that Badwolf must be trying to softclaim a pr as scum, which I didn't see at all. It seemed here like you were also wondering the same thing... Yet...

You just say "ok" once Soup replies that town or scum won't want to die at night so it must mean they would all claim vt, you just go along with it and it doesn't seem like you were really questioning it at all, which seems a bit fake to me. I would think that anyone could get defensive when it comes to people possibly rolefishing, and to me it seemed like a misunderstanding...

Now then. You NOW vote Badwolf because you think that his claim thing came out of the blue, right? Yet why didn't you mention this at all when Soup was pushing it?
 

ranmaru

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Hey Ori_Bro I saw you viewing. I want you to give me an opinion on my Soup/DH case, please. Also you said you were going to read yesterday, so did you do that?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Ranmaru said:
He just votes Vinyl and wants me to get on his wagon without much of a reason. I didn't really know what he was going for, but this is something to keep in mind with the rest of his actions. In fact, Soup: Why did you vote Vinyl and want me (and maybe others) to join the wagon?
To get reactions. I'm one of the people who hates RVS and actually has purpose behind the things I do; I use RVS as an excuse to do different things however. I had no specific read on Vinyl. and I already explained my reasoning as to why I did that in #21.

Here it seemed like a quick reaction to Badwolf's response to me when I said I saw him viewing and not post yet. What soup doesn't realize that it seems Badwolf has GENERALLY been playing safe, and not just per his alignment. Remember Gheb's game? I told him to be more serious because he was starting to be a hindrance to his alignment (Scum or Town), and he said he would take the advice to heart. So I didn't really find his response as scummy, it made sense. I felt Soup's jump on Badwolf was opportunistic.
Vinyl. didn't respond yet, and I voted Vinyl. as he was still viewing, he didn't show interest in my vote so I switched to Badwolf to see what reaction I could get out of him too, mostly because he reminds like Vinyl. and his reactions are a lot more telling than the content they produce. I thought Badwolf was going to get upset and sarcastic like his usual self but he kept his cool, he had a good reaction for the time being and there was no reason to push it further because I already got what I wanted out of it. Why are you so hung up on these small instances that have already been explained?

Here, Soup shows that Badwolf showed a reaction he didn't expect. Yet, how did that reflect on his reads? He says he was prodding to get discussion up (which did) but I don't feel like that was the reason he was doing so. He says Badwolf kept his head cool for that, so that must mean it wasn't scum motivated or what? Soup, can you explain your thought process here? Was this a scum reaction or town reaction?
It reflected as null-town. I didn't have reason to push Badwolf there after a good reaction like that. Also yes, in a way I was prodding both of them to move discussion and get out of RVS but I also had my own intentions there.

I didn't like that Soup was already accepting Mac into the brocrew without much content from him or Soup attempting to read him. This felt like buddy connection here, at first.
Macman openly offered to buddy me in the game and I like mac, there's your highly detailed answer. Why the hell are these things such a concern to you? I seriously don't understand your disposition to comment about all these things or merely wait to comment on them if they bothered you at first-hand, you're not a player who does this often Ran.

I don't see what the point of Soup critisizing Bad's reads for being surface level even though it was still RVS. I felt this was ]b\Soup trying to make a connection between Mac and Bad,[/b] even though Soup was fine with Mac already. Soup, can you explain why it was important to ask Badwolf about this? How did it help you find scum?
What? I was surprised that a player in the middle of RVS could have such surface level reads when he says he doesn't care for RVS or finds it pointless, his jump on pretending like he knew everything there bothered me. How was I trying to do that? Where do you see this? I had no concern with Mac and was only focusing on what I wanted with Badwolf for the time being.

I'm gonna read your case on DH too, but looking at it doesn't make me really like it.
 
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