The Top 5 Brawl [ US | CAN | MEX]

[Smoom77]

@Mekos, yeah that was me. that first game was too scary.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I also had a REALLY close set with D-Torr in pools. He took a game off me and everything. Too good. He was 3-stocking Ikon too before he got gimped.

Our set was amazing.

 

[DeLux]

I think DeLux should be top 5 ICs also. I don't think anyone knows ICs more intimately than he does, and he's also really good (made it to APEX bracket).

But I lose to King DDD which is like a cardinal sin for an IC main O_O

 

[MVD]

I hate you razer -.- LOL

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

He actually beat Seagull Man in losers

if seagull was wolf losing to ICs is nothing special. if seagull used his mk props to lux

 

[DeLux]

I beat both of them

His wolf scared me more than MK tbh (Wolf goes even with ICs imo if they play the matchup right)

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well he's not known for mk but still it's the harder MU.

also is seriously about teh woflz being even?

 

[CO18]

Like, if the world was going to explode and to stop it we had to beat this random snake, I would pick Gnes over anyone to defend the world, and I'm pretty sure most others would back me up on it.

Naw son, im still coming back and putting the world in my hands.

Gnes is a soft little boy. Tell him to hit the weight room. Tell him to get ***** by mk18 in doubles. Tell him to take that 12.5k check from mlg and buy a gym membership and some food, tell him my 8 year old cousin called..... she wants her jeans back. Tell him hes the smash version of drake, doesnt know if hes black or white. Tell him to get some rogaine.

 

[MVD]

Damn lol but I love Gnes

 

[2-DJeff]

Yea IC vs Wolf is even or slightly in IC favor

 

[NO-IDea]

I agree with u both...but like Kryst said, I don't respect them as a player for doing it and definitely don't think they are good. I'm not trying to get standing inf. banned or anything.

I'm not salty. I know lucas is not a singles viable character for it. I enter singles just for fun and to see what I will get. I focus on doubles. I am a doubles player.
The only thing that pisses me off sometimes is when people like NOid and PLayer-1 who say results is everything say a player that does an easy standing infinite against me and wins, is better than me. That just blows my mind how someone can think that lol. But eh everyone has their own opinion.

It blows my mind people can have this scrub mentality and cry over losing to simple tactics like chain grabbing.

The decision to main Lucas was your choice. To put down DK/Marth/Snake/insert CG character mains for their ability to get past you in bracket because of a standing infinite is insulting and rude. Man up. Saying "a player that does an easy standing infinite against me and wins, isn't better than me" makes you look like a scrub.

To belittle their victory against you is to belittle their skill and mentality. They are doing whatever it takes to succeed, whereas you exhibit hubris in your character. Sounds more like a personal problem, which shouldn't affect how those players are to be gauged in skill.

Again, I think player skill does affect results, but results reflect everything. Your seeding or placement in bracket doesn't matter in the long run as your performance will eventually normalize over several tournaments.

If it comes to a point where you are consistently running into a CG character that is directly inhibiting your performance, that's a good indication that it's time to either learn to become better than the CG tactic or pick up another character. Not cry and complain about infinites.

How you choose to analyze those results, from local to national, is another thing.

And if I'm not mistaken, no Lucas got into bracket but all of you got into r2 pools, correct? I haven't seen you outplace PF in singles once in your career, Mekos.

 

[Luigisama]

It blows my mind people can have this scrub mentality and cry over losing to simple tactics like chain grabbing.

The decision to main Lucas was your choice. To put down DK/Marth/Snake/insert CG character mains for their ability to get past you in bracket because of a standing infinite is insulting and rude. Man up. Saying "a player that does an easy standing infinite against me and wins, isn't better than me" makes you look like a scrub.

To belittle their victory against you is to belittle their skill and mentality. They are doing whatever it takes to succeed, whereas you exhibit hubris in your character. Sounds more like a personal problem, which shouldn't affect how those players are to be gauged in skill.

Again, I think player skill does affect results, but results reflect everything. Your seeding or placement in bracket doesn't matter in the long run as your performance will eventually normalize over several tournaments.

If it comes to a point where you are consistently running into a CG character that is directly inhibiting your performance, that's a good indication that it's time to either learn to become better than the CG tactic or pick up another character. Not cry and complain about infinites.

How you choose to analyze those results, from local to national, is another thing.

And if I'm not mistaken, no Lucas got into bracket but all of you got into r2 pools, correct? I haven't seen you outplace PF in singles once in your career, Mekos.

*likes post* don't forget the awesome feeling you feel after you beat someone that was using cgs.

 

[Mister Eric]

@ Stingers & Chibo:
I'm curious at why you both feel 8Bit should be higher than me. I'm not mad or anything, just wondering if it's simply riding off of his Pikachu victory.

 

[Krystedez]

But the feeling of losing to some very well known and easy to do technique as if you're some ragdoll?

Feels bad man.

Like I said, he has a right to feel resentment toward players or at least LESS respect for them than ones who beat his character using tactics that require more than ones that even a brain-damaged monkey could do.

I'm really tired of the way people look at how people FEEL about some tactic being broken or ********, and turn it around and think they are scrubs because of it. We have our own opinion of how players approach the game and the game itself, why can't we discuss it and be like "Yeah, that tactic is major gay and I don't respect anyone for it because it takes very little action to do" when all they are doing is having NO respect for the player, NOT DISrespecting the player.

Seriously, when I see someone who claims they know or = read up on metagame analysis and game theory and "Scrub" vs "pro" mentalities make me cringe, because the fact is you're looking way too much into it when you start complaining about someone else complaining.

Mekos never once said it should be banned. Mekos never said "I disrespect/say EFF YOU to players who use it"... He said he has no respect, BUT does HAVE respect for players who use ICs legitly. That's not crying about it.

Tl;dr: Players have a right to withhold respect from players in this community who abuse tactics that are clearly broken but not banworthy. In the same token, disrespecting players because they use it (like screaming at Hbox for camping harder set 2, or yelling at M2K for scrooging) isn't right at all.

 

[NO-IDea]

Until it gets to the point that it affects how he views that player's skill level.

And from there, how he tries to convince others of his opinion.

It's unfair to belittle the players who win due to these tactics simply because he can't handle them.

This wasn't a matter of respect. It's a judgment of their skill level. He's trying to say these players aren't better than him skill wise, when quite frankly, with the way the ruleset is right now and their proficiency in chain grabs, they are.

 

[MVD]

If fyre is a top 5 pit main, then there must not be good pit mains out there....I think I double 2 stocked her pit in pools.....i dont remember much but she didnt really seem that hard at all....maybe she was nervous..idk

She gets nervous hardcore, she needs someone to keep her calm, not so much BIG tourney experience

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

mikeray you almost lost to her game 2. i have the video on my lap top cam. unfortunately i can't upload it because the file is weird. game 1 she suicided as well below 30%. nerves brah

 

[mikeray4]

mikeray you almost lost to her game 2. i have the video on my lap top cam. unfortunately i can't upload it because the file is weird. game 1 she suicided as well below 30%. nerves brah

LMAO NO I DIDNT


Please that whole pool was sandbag city, dont be naive.

I mean I went kirby one of my matches

But now I know that YOU'RE the one who was filming. Which brings me to a question. Are you fyre's boyfriend/lover or are you her brother/cousin? Cause you're like all about her and whatnot.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

me? im just a lowly pit main brah. nothing more nothing less

 

[ErikG]

me? im just a lowly pit main brah. nothing more nothing less

So you're Admiral Pit?

 

[Player-1]

The only thing that pisses me off sometimes is when people like NOid and PLayer-1 who say results is everything say a player that does an easy standing infinite against me and wins, is better than me. That just blows my mind how someone can think that lol. But eh everyone has their own opinion.

Lmao, bro, this is probably one of your most ******** post I've seen.

1. I never said results is everything
2. I never said someone that does a standing infinite on you and wins is better than you.If Player A gets standing infinited and loses to Player B, but beats Players C-Z while Player-b loses to Players C-Z then it's pretty obvious who the better player is. Player A is since he can beat more people than Player B.
3. Now going off what you probably meant to say, that is it blows your mind that someone can think someone who standing infinited you the whole game and won outplayed you. That's NOT AN OPINION IT'S A FACT. Choosing a character is part of playing the game, by choosing a bad character then you're choosing a bad option. That's not to say that the bad option won't work, because you obviously have made it work, but it's still a bad option and if your opponent capitalizes on your bad option then just shows skill on their part.

Character choice is part of playing the game. When you choose Lucas and the other player chooses marth then they're already outplaying you in the character choice aspect and when they start infiniting you then it just means that aspect of skill is just so overwhelming that the other skills don't matter. The traits one uses when determining who is outplaying who are NOT equal. For example, let's just say (and this completely hypothetical statistics) that Mario Vs Mario takes like 20% mindgames, 20% spacing, 20% projectile usage, 20% air game, 20% offstage game when determining who is outplaying who. Well Marth Vs Lucas could be like 80% character choice, 10% spacing, 5% mindgames, 3% projectile usage, 2% (again statistics are just made up, could be more or less percents or more or less percentages), you're still getting outplayed because the character choice was just that much more important. You could have way better mindgames, way better spacing, way better projectile usage game, but in this example none of those things mattered that much when compared to how important the character choice was.

 

[Nike.]

I'm such a P1 fanboy now that I met him.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

So you're Admiral Pit?

100% no. im not even close to being admiral pit. i just troll people. he's....... on a different level

 

[Krystedez]

Until it gets to the point that it affects how he views that player's skill level.

And from there, how he tries to convince others of his opinion.

It's unfair to belittle the players who win due to these tactics simply because he can't handle them.

This wasn't a matter of respect. It's a judgment of their skill level. He's trying to say these players aren't better than him skill wise, when quite frankly, with the way the ruleset is right now and their proficiency in chain grabs, they are.

I was specifically looking at the disrespect vs lack of respect thing. Whether Mekos thinks he's better than someone or not is his own business. But even then I guess I'd disagree, especially when you say "their proficiency"... What proficiency? You either grab again or you don't. That's how simple those grab infinites specific to ness and lucas ARE. I will never understand someone who thinks that that specific part of knowing the matchup means they are "better" in skill.

What it DOES say is the lack of knowledge of one's skill. Mekos can't say he is better or worse than someone who abuses that tactic, and neither can the player abusing it.

Just like how P1 was dividing up percents of skill level in specific traits' importance, I can divide the amount of "oomph" a win has between players based on a character.

Lucas beats Marth. This means the Lucas majorly hard-read and hard-out-played the opponent OR the opponent did not CG infinite OR the opponent chose not to. ALL THREE of those instances would be rated differently. Let's say that Lucas outplayed them. That means a lot more than if the Lucas only beat them because they didn't do the chain grab. Skill level between each of the two, IF IT MATTERED, would be measured solely on the 20 percent of skill traits left AFTER character choice!

Marth beats Lucas. How important is it? Well, if the Lucas got grabbed all three stocks for kills, then that means either the Marth was perfect with their spacing and grabs, or the Lucas was just so bad that he LET himself get grabbed. Any other instances matter MORE, because they didn't rely on that 80 percent character choice.

HOWEVER!!!

I can't rate any of these skill levels between DIFFERENT characters much, because this is rating how well each character beats others COMPARED to others in the same line.

So if Mekos ends up beating Marths that don't CG infinite usually, while FAE beats Marths that DO, that means FAE was either doing something to avoid being grabbed and means more than the matches that Mekos ended up winning.

So in turn, I WISH it weren't there, I WISH it was bad enough TO ban, but since it ISN'T, it brings a whole second layer of how to rate wins and losses between characters.

 

[vato_break]

In a tournament setting where the players are playing for money, expect them to play to win.

 

[Chuee]

Infinites don't affect the game enough to warrant a ban.
Only reason you should ban them is for crowd factors and such like the reason MLG banned them.

 

[Krystedez]

I'm not expecting otherwise. I'm just saying that with the CG, it is sometimes impossible to adequately rate a player in THEIR own right in a top 5 thread of their character.


Mekos
PinkFresh
NinjaLink
Galeon
FAE

If FAE keeps having to fight pocket Marths who know the CG, and he either losers or is forced to switch, does that mean he is less skilled than say Galeon who ends up fighting no Marths in bracket?

 

[Two-Ell]

Krys, Galeon should be off. He hasn't played in over a year xD

 

[Mekos]

Thanks Krystedez but I've learned to just ignore this guy...what I'm saying isn't too hard to comprehend but some people like him always take what I say out of context. U get what I'm saying but it is just going in one ear and out the other for this guy. Yer Fae example is perfect but no "Results are everything" lol.

Guess I'm just belittling people now since I don't respect that tactic. I never said I'm better than people who use that. I said I can't understand how people like u think they are better than players skill wise that do those tactics. I understand Noid you are PF fanboy but u need to chill sometimes. IF we compared results like Player vs Player data u would see mine are way better. We have both played alot of the same people. For example, I never got 6 stocked by Nairo or 3 stocked by Esam. I'll leave it at that cuz PF is my boy. Were not even talking about top lucas and u always try to start something. Grow up. I gave the lucas example cuz that is who I use.

@Player-1 - To me Outplaying = more skill = better than your opponent

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I agree with Player-1. If you lose at the character select screen (so to speak), you're getting outplayed in that moment. It may not be the greatest showing of skill, but, who cares? Sticking out bad matchups doesn't matter if you're still losing because of it. That's consciously making a bad decision, and being a good player is all about making good decisions.

 

[Mekos]

Reflex I understand the whole character select screen. I'm a doubles player as in I focus on dubs. Yall seem to not read everything I posts. I am playing singles simply for fun.

I'm not complaining or anything. I just have my own opinion for judging people who use that.
For example, I respect Malcom so much as a player. He refuses to use gay tactics and still is a top player. He is so amazing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Respecting a player for not using certain tactics is...silly. If a player feels like focusing primarily on tactics that fall outside the norm is the best way for him to succeed, so be it. If a player feels like focusing primarily on tactics that have proven to work time and time again, so be it. I don't see how arbitrarily refusing to use certain tactics in tournament is an admirable trait--It shows a lack of concern for improvement.

There is a lot to consider in the road to improvement, but adamantly refusing to consider an option for no reason that benefits you is foolish.

 

[Krystedez]

Respecting a player for ANY reason is fine, Reflex.

DISRESPECT is different.

Well, let me take that back. RESPECTING a player for a positive reason is not hurting anyone. If you respect someone because they're a douche, then lmao XD

 

[Player-1]

@Player-1 - To me Outplaying = more skill = better than your opponent

being able to CP an opponent's character correctly is a skill.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Maybe I am too competitive to understand, but, disliking people who are doing something available to you in the game doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe the ruleset sucks. Maybe the game is bad. That's no reason to like or dislike someone who refuses or abuses it.

I can appreciate low tier players who legitimately feel like their character stands a chance in some ways; the people who grow and push their character past the limits that everyone else thought they saw. You find out whether or not it's worth it over time; sometimes, the answer is not what you'd like. The important thing is that you stick with your goal.

If you just want to be the best of a certain character, that's cool, but, how can you fault someone else for choosing to pick top tier? If you just want to use suboptimal tactics, that's your prerogative, but, what is there to appreciate in someone else doing so? More importantly, though, what is there to dislike in someone else choosing not to handicap themselves?

 

[Shaky]

Now going off what you probably meant to say, that is it blows your mind that someone can think someone who standing infinited you the whole game and won outplayed you. That's NOT AN OPINION IT'S A FACT. Choosing a character is part of playing the game, by choosing a bad character then you're choosing a bad option.

Yes, choosing a character is part of playing the game but 1. Some people chose their characters way before these infinite shenanigans were discovered and 2. Some of these characters have actually a lot of potential if it weren't for the GR's and infinites. If, for instance, a new infinite was discovered tomorrow with X character and someone who has never used X character uses it and infinites me for the win I wouldn't consider that as them outplaying me.

And, just for reference:
out·play (out-pl)
tr.v. out·played, out·play·ing, out·plays
To surpass (an opponent) in skill or in scoring points.

 

[AllyKnight]

Just put Razer #1. I honestly don't mind where I am. Just glad other Snake players are doing better than before.

 

[Mekos]

Reflex I never said I dislike the person who does that on me to win. Read what I wrote and don't just read what NOid wrote. Also, with the comments yer making it blows my mind that your pro-ban for mk.

Shaky has a good point. A player at apex specifically went DK to try and infinite me.
If I would have lost some of you would think he is the better player for all those reasons u mentioned. The kid didn't even main DK. He just knew who I was before hand.

 

[AllyKnight]

Honestly, as of right now, I think Nairo is the best or second best MK in the country. M2K hasn't been putting in a lot of practice into the game and he isn't anywhere close to as quick and precise as he has been in the past. The same applies to Ally- he's a brilliant player, but his style is kind of sloppy. Anti is incredible. Tyrant recently started working and is playing a lot less- although I've felt Nairo should have been above him for awhile.
Given recent decreases in M2K and Ally's skill levels (no offence to either or them- they're both amazing players and were they to put any effort back into their game again aI have no doubt they'd reclaim their former positions), I'd honestly put the list with Nairo, Anti, and M2K as tied for first. Since you don't want ties though, I put the list at Anti, Nairo, M2K, Ally, Tyrant.
Yes, it's kind of radical. Yes, it seems ridiculous to see M2K at anything but first, but both him and Ally aren't putting in the necessary work. However, I honestly feel as if it's the case. Nairo now looks like M2K in the past- he's quick, aggressive, perfect spacing, a solid defense game when needed, and almost most importantly, has a near untouchable follow-up game.

I recognize that very few- if any- people will agree with this, but, oh well.

Nairo got destroyed by Nietono worst than me on their 2nd encounter. Placing doesn't = consistancy. But at this point idc. I just play and do my thang.

 

[z00ted]

Reflex you said all of that so beautifully.

I think I shed a tear.