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The Top 5 Brawl [ US | CAN | MEX]

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strawhats

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
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Bronx
@m2k: how did your friendlies go vs quiksilver(German native/Italian born samus/zss player) at SRT

Also have u gotten to play Abadango's/Gluttony's warios in friendlies- not including that crew battle u played vs abadango's wario where he started with like 3 stock to your 1

:phone:
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
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10,678
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Pittsburgh, PA
But yoshi is still extremely boring to play against. Especially yours :p. Seriously you camp like mad in friendlies </3

It makes me a sad panda :(
 

Delta-cod

Smash Hero
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May 29, 2009
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Phikarp
Hey man, gotta practice that stuff.

I don't exactly remember playing you, but as of the past 4-5 months I've been more aggressive in general, moreso during friendlies. But obviously Yoshi just can't approach some characters.
 

Mew2King

King of the Mews
Joined
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11,263
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Cinnaminson (southwest NJ 5 min drive from Philly)
vs quick i won 1 stock 30% (but i got a lucky low % KO one of the stocks, okay well not entirely i took a risk which could sacrifice stage control but yeah), and we played a... 7 stock friendly (yup..) and i won 2 or 3 i think 2 stock although i also had two low % kills. he's good, and idk who the best ZSS is all 3 are kind of comparable imo.
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
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Wherever sarcasm can be made
I still don't see why the best character winning the most nationals is something to yell about o_O. The game being more fun/fair/balanced really is subjective to whether or not your character that you play benefits from him not being there. I'd say that a decent amount of the mid tier or lower characters get hard bodied by other MUs that are less commonly seen because MK is legal, and it ends up benefiting them which makes it more fun than playing Snake v Lucas, or Marth v Lucas. MK serves as a repellent in this case, when the opposite can be said if your character is completely shut down because of MK. Personally I'd rather fight MKs than ICs/Olimar any day because personally my character benefits from having MK legal. When it comes down to it, having MK legal is a personal choice whether or not they think he should be banned, rather than it being a fact that the character is broken to a level that's unable to be beaten, in my own opinion.

@The List Nakat should really be #2 Fox at this point, I don't know what Trevonte really has that's relevant at this point. Koolaid should be the first best Pit really but I'm not sure of his results to back up the claim so, meh. ADHD > Gnes? Gnes quit apparently, and ADHD is making his return.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
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6,515
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Why does the MK ban discussion always come up? Nobody is making people go to tournaments. If you don't like it....don't go to tournaments...it's simple.
 

ViperGold42

Smash Lord
Joined
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The Unknown Reaches of Space.
Why does the MK ban discussion always come up? Nobody is making people go to tournaments. If you don't like it....don't go to tournaments...it's simple.
yeah with that logic you make it sound so one sided and you can't argue with people who use this pathetic excuse, well WE DON'T GO TO TOURNAMENTS WHO BAN META KNIGHT but we still have the right to complain about it.
 

KageMurphy

Smash Master
Joined
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3,965
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Swoosh
Stop using this thread to rant about MK you ****ing tools, stay on topic and follow me on Twitter @ ThePhenomenalEE

Jeez.

:017:
 

Keitaro

Banned via Administration
Joined
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Messages
11,941
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Piscataway, NJ
Poyo I also think M2K has the highest potential of any MK player, but then he loses to Trela, Dabuz, ROB, and Pit and I cry on the inside :'(
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
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9,302
WTP, you should put the link to the google docs in the OP or Rules imo
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Joined
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Nov 10th should be the final real consensus for Diddy list.

Let Vato/Lie/Zino/AZ/P-1 continue for their results and stuff until then. Zino/AZ/P-1 should all be there then.

Also, Fizzle will be a top 5 DDD soon.

Seagull, you are a great player, but you are dumb. Keep up the good work tho.
 

Seagull Joe

Smash Legend
Joined
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Maryland
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Once again, you've committed the ad hominem logical fallacy - you're attacking the person, not the idea.
This is irrelevant. You are attempting an ethos appeal, which is invalid in the context of a logical debate over the MK issue. The fact that some people in these regions may object to an MK ban does not support your implied claim that it is illogical to ban MK. Furthermore, it is likely that you are erroneous in the content of your statements: many people in New England favor an MK-banned ruleset, which is why Smashachusetts, Mega Mass Madness, and all the Rhode Island tourneys were MK banned. Clearly, NY is not entirely anti-ban because the state has hosted numerous MK banned tourneys including the Impact series, Struggle Snuggle, etc.No, it's just your biased perception of the Atlantic North, which is askew from reality. Not all the people in NJ and NY are proponents of MK legal. Besides, this is irrelevant as I explained before.

This is another inappropriate generalization. You cannot verbally attack people or regions and expect it to have any significance in the context of this discussion. If anything these insults serve to diminish your intellectual credibility.

Likewise, you tend to oversimplify when analyzing character matchups by attributing one or two basic qualities to each character...

Personal opinions and matchup preferences do not reinforce the notion that an MK ban is illogical. You cannot use anecdotal evidence like this to support your claim.

Concerning your analysis of MK...you have conveniently neglected to include his positive aspects - his multifarious tools and advantages that make him disproportionately better than all the other characters. Examples include his dominance offstage, his ledge planking, air planking, relatively lagless moveset, and his tornado, each of which requires an entire strategy to deal with by itself.

It is absolutely unreasonable to dismiss ICs as a "completely linear" character. ICs have an immense learning curve that far exceeds the time and understanding necessary to be as successful with "the bat" in tournament. What you have conveniently withheld is that Olimar has a fatal flaw in his offstage recovery. MK has no comparable flaw. Have you not seen DEHF's Falco? Do you think that Falco can kill with lasers? Are you aware that it is not uncommon for Falco players to approach even before the kill?What is possessing you to declare that Diddy Kong has a better camp game than MK?

I assume you are speaking from a lack of information? Raptor allowed a vote to determine whether MK was banned. It was not he who pushed for an MK ban.

Your claim, from what I understand, is that MK should not be banned. However, you have provided zero concrete evidence to suggest that an MK legal ruleset is more logical than an MK banned one. It follows that your comments are null and void, seeing as you have given little to no thought to your brash assertions and oversimplified character analyses. The fact remains: MK is disproportionately better than the rest of the cast and has won every recent national tournament. This is not due to sheer coincidence. It is logical to support an MK banned ruleset because the game is much more balanced, fun, and fair without him.
You just wanted to sound smart by using a bunch of big words. You ain't Verm son. Your opinions have always been super biased. :toonlink: gets thwomped by :metaknight: and that's your fault for using him. Get better. Quit complaining.

:popo: is completely linear. They go for the grab. That is all.

Gimping :olimar: isn't easy and that had nothing to do with what I said about him. You completely negated the hardness of approaching him.

:falco: can't kill with lasers, but that also had nothing to do with what I said.

:diddy: DOES have a better camp game then :metaknight:. :metaknight: just has a better approach game.

The fact that you said :metaknight: should be banned to make the game "Fun and Fair" towards competitive play disgusts me. Stay free.
Nov 10th should be the final real consensus for Diddy list.

Let Vato/Lie/Zino/AZ/P-1 continue for their results and stuff until then. Zino/AZ/P-1 should all be there then.

Also, Fizzle will be a top 5 DDD soon.

Seagull, you are a great player, but you are dumb. Keep up the good work tho.
Why am I dumb? Because his post sounded smarter grammatically/big words usages, but was just filled with intense bias? Did you READ what he posted or just skim through it?

:018:
 

big bad wolf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
396
Seriously guys this discussion is dumb , Joe relax the only ones in ny/nj that push hard for mk banned is house of 3000. Raptor and myself have hosted mk banned due to the increasing popularity to make the numbers.Here in Ny if you don't get at least 250 venue the difference comes out of your pocket ...... So if 30 people say they'll come for a mk banned and 15 for mk it is not rocket science to figure out why we do what we do.
The only thing I know for certain raptor hates is Project M lol

i think the new rankings system for mk legal and mk banned is good. I think it allows those who are good out one or the other to stand out and those who win no matter what to really make their mark.

As for character update I think Lucas could use an update , ninjalink and tear bear don't even use the character consistently in events and I have seen other lucases in events place decently that could hold those slots.

Joe, you don't have to argue or explain a reason for anything.**** happens , different people have different preferences. People don't want to forced into certain options due to matchup deficit. However, people must realize with mk banned there is going to be a rise of straight cp strategy like jband so when you still lose from an even worse matchup lol NO JOHNS!
 

Mekos

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Nah Seagull he actually got u.

It just sounds like he took Analytical Reasoning in college. That class is a freshman lvl class in college by the way. Anyways those words aren't that big.

Don't try and insult his intelligence because you lost the argument. He simply debated your points(showed why they were all wrong). I always say you talk like you know facts when they are really just your opinions or thoughts. Be careful of that.
 

Seagull Joe

Smash Legend
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SeagullJoe
Seriously guys this discussion is dumb , Joe relax the only ones in ny/nj that push hard for mk banned is house of 3000. Raptor and myself have hosted mk banned due to the increasing popularity to make the numbers.Here in Ny if you don't get at least 250 venue the difference comes out of your pocket ...... So if 30 people say they'll come for a mk banned and 15 for mk it is not rocket science to figure out why we do what we do.
The only thing I know for certain raptor hates is Project M lol

i think the new rankings system for mk legal and mk banned is good. I think it allows those who are good out one or the other to stand out and those who win no matter what to really make their mark.

As for character update I think Lucas could use an update , ninjalink and tear bear don't even use the character consistently in events and I have seen other lucases in events place decently that could hold those slots.

Joe, you don't have to argue or explain a reason for anything.**** happens , different people have different preferences. People don't want to forced into certain options due to matchup deficit. However, people must realize with mk banned there is going to be a rise of straight cp strategy like jband so when you still lose from an even worse matchup lol NO JOHNS!
Pane with the best post. Thanks Andrew. That's all that had to be said.
Nah Seagull he actually got u.

It just sounds like he took Analytical Reasoning in college. That class is a freshman lvl class in college by the way. Anyways those words aren't that big.

Don't try and insult his intelligence because you lost the argument. He simply debated your points(showed why they were all wrong). I always say you talk like you know facts when they are really just your opinions or thoughts. Be careful of that.
He didn't win. He just used strawmanning in his post.

People these days have no clue.
So both sides give their personal opinions, but now it's being biased?
No, not that. I've known quest for years. He's always posted like an arrogant fool. Look at his sig even.

Anywho, done talking about this. Get back on topic.

:018:
 

RaptorTEC

Smash Champion
Joined
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Seagull he legit argued your points D: Those ain't even fancy words I learned about ethos and all that other stuff in philosophy 101. In the end though, both sides gotta stop *****ing about MK imo.

@Pane You should be more specific and mention the fact that you hosted MK banned with Japanese ruleset, which I still feel like ranting about how stupid that was :awesome: like REALLY??????? :troll:

@WTP LuigiSama for top 5 luigi!

:phone:
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Joined
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Columbus, Ohio
Let me go grab some, but he's been pretty much consistent as usual and outplaced Zino at the same tournament P-1 outplaced Zino at. Even though it was like forever ago.

He was, however outplaced by Zinoto at RAGE though. So they have outplaced each other once each and generally both perform good in their states. AZ's best current wins might be... Fizzle/Blue Rouge? Zinoto's are Ally/Lain.
 

KageMurphy

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
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3,965
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Swoosh
AZ is no where near a top 5 Diddy, don't even waste your time like his wins will be better then anyone already listed.

:017:
 

KT Kasrani

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
2,177
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Philadelphia, Pa
why are words like "fun" and "fair" being used.

if you play this game competetively then your playing to win. if you play with a character who cant beat mk then that's a personal problem. you can just do what players have been doing for years and just learn the MU
 

NH Cody

Smash Champion
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Apr 17, 2010
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2,638
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Kakariko Village, NH
Nah Seagull he actually got u.

It just sounds like he took Analytical Reasoning in college. That class is a freshman lvl class in college by the way. Anyways those words aren't that big.

Don't try and insult his intelligence because you lost the argument. He simply debated your points(showed why they were all wrong). I always say you talk like you know facts when they are really just your opinions or thoughts. Be careful of that.
Thank you Mekos.

Seagull, you introduced no new information in your last few posts. You merely restated your unsupported claims from before. Who's the fool again? This is an example of circular reasoning - attempting to persuade an audience by repeating the same idea many times.
You just wanted to sound smart by using a bunch of big words. You ain't Verm son.
I always post with proper grammar. This is not a first. You, on the other hand, have consistently demonstrated that you possess a limited mastery of compositional English. If you insulting my academic capacity isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is. In addition, do not insinuate that I would ever try to sound like anyone else. I am a unique individual who is not afraid to stand alone in order to do what is right, as in the case of the MK issue.
Your opinions have always been super biased. :toonlink: gets thwomped by :metaknight:
You're not helping your own cause. You don't even have a basic understanding of the words you use. Opinions are always biased. That is what makes them all unique. Whereas I am crafting an argument, you are listing off personal anecdotes and vilifying me in an unsuccessful attempt to prove the false idea that an MK ban is illogical. Moreover, you are making a number of assumptions about me that (yet again) are irrelevant to the topic of whether it is logical to ban MK.

My claim that an MK ban is logically necessary does not stem from my preference for Toon Link. Your statement does nothing to contradict the notion that MK should be banned because he is disproportionately better than all the other characters.
and that's your fault for using him. Get better. Quit complaining.
This yet another instance of an unwarranted attack and an ad hominem logical fallacy. You are failing to remain within the bounds of the discussion. Your comment is irrelevant. Even its content has no meaning: complaining has nothing to do with my argument that banning MK is logical, and MK has an advantage over all characters, not just Toon Link.
:popo: is completely linear. They go for the grab. That is all.
Ask any high level ICs player and you will discover that there is much more to the character. This is an implausible oversimplification.
Gimping :olimar: isn't easy and that had nothing to do with what I said about him. You completely negated the hardness of approaching him.
This comment supports my argument...if I " completely negated" what you said before, then, fantastic! That's what I meant to do! It's good that you admit you were wrong and see that Olimar's fatal flaw puts him significantly below MK in competitive viability, even when it is difficult to approach him (sometimes).
:falco: can't kill with lasers, but that also had nothing to do with what I said.
No, it was absolutely relevant to your assertion that Falco just runs away. He uses lasers when he runs away, does he not? However, he cannot run away for the entire match because he has to get in close quarters to kill.
:diddy: DOES have a better camp game then :metaknight:. :metaknight: just has a better approach game.
I can see where this is going. You're not going to provide any evidence (because there is none to support your invalid claims). Hence, I am going to take the rest of this to PMs or VMs with people who would like to discuss the issue rationally with me. You are not the person with whom I care to discuss the issue any further, primarily because you have proven incapable of raising any relevant evidence at all.
The fact that you said :metaknight: should be banned to make the game "Fun and Fair" towards competitive play disgusts me. Stay free.
This is another ad hominem logical fallacy, mixed with personal anecdotes that are not applicable to your defense of an MK legal ruleset.
Why am I dumb? Because his post sounded smarter grammatically/big words usages, but was just filled with intense bias? Did you READ what he posted or just skim through it?
Funnily enough, you have repeatedly labeled me as "biased," but you have neglected to cite any errors in the text. I wonder why. Oh wait, I know why: because your entire argument rests on the invalid premise of the aforementioned circular reasoning. You have reiterated your fallacious claims without any supporting evidence. Aristotle defined the argument in terms of two parts: the claim and the supporting evidence, the latter of which you have shown none. Therefore, your argument is incomplete and holds no significance.
He didn't win. He just used strawmanning in his post.
Quite the opposite: you are the one who is committing the straw man logical fallacy. It is evident that you are unaware of the word's meaning, so I shall enlighten you.

The straw man fallacy occurs when somebody presents a distorted or oversimplified version of his or her opponent's argument, and attempts to contradict that version of the argument. I find it extremely distasteful that you have the nerve to suggest that I change my language in order to sound sophisticated. In reality, I always post with refined grammar and precise diction when discussing any serious topic or character matchup. Conversely, you are only doing yourself more of a disservice by doing exactly that of which you have accused me: trying to incorporate eloquent vocabulary when you actually have no inkling of its meaning.

No, not that. I've known quest for years. He's always posted like an arrogant fool. Look at his sig even.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You, of all people, labeling me as an "arrogant fool" is a malicious lie and an example of hypocrisy to the highest degree. The only way one may perceive me as arrogant would be by interpreting my last few posts as condescending when replying to you. I was merely trying to explain the errors of your statements and your ways of thinking about this subject. More importantly, I am not a fool. It is inappropriate and unfair for you to describe me as such. I am perfectly capable of discussing any controversial topic calmly and rationally. It takes two to tango: I have not responded to your slander with more slander for a reason. Do not provoke me and then attempt to depict me as belligerent. It will not work.
Anywho, done talking about this. Get back on topic.
Firstly, I apologize to the other members of the thread if I have strayed from the topic of top 5 players. As I have stated, I will continue the discussion with those who are interested through VMs and PMs. However, I will not tolerate it when people like Seagull put their final defense in a thread and follow up right afterward with a post that urges the public to get back on topic, conveniently right in time to prevent the other party from replying. Do not do this again as it was a conceited move on your part, Seagull.

KT - that's easy for you to say, because you're unusually good at fighting MK. He's still banworthy simply because he's disproportionately better than all the other characters and because his absence would make the game significantly more balanced. I didn't start this discussion...but I'm finishing it.

I'm done.
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
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2,957
Location
New york
wow who cares about freeknight. The only thing that matters is that Player 1 still hasn't gotten number 1 diddy.

Btw follow player 1 on his Twitter @ ThePhenomenalEE
 
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