The Triforce of Toon: A Community Toon Link Guide

[demonictoonlink]

I full hop most of my Nairs vs Snakes especially. Just harder to punish.

Rob too.


BTW Hyro, let mine come out first! I don't wanna be over-shadowed...

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So is it more of a thing to do against tall to medium characters? Seriously. Would you for example use it against MK? Or is it something you do against everyone but it's more useful against taller characters?

(stupid lack of wii. I hate asking for info.)

 

[MJG]

Emphasize the importance of "Full hopping" Nairs.
Not easily punishable.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah I get that and I already plan on emphasizing it. I've only got those few questions about it that I can't answer myself. They are, at what height do characters not get hit by it? Is it still useful if they don't get hit while on the ground. How should it be used in both situations. What are the benifits compared to SH Nairs. Just stuff.

I gtg. I'll need those answers and any more info you guys can think of before I can write this up.

 

[MJG]

Benefits: Not getting punished as easily. You still have another jump (And you will be WAY up in the air) so you have better options. Still..some characters can punish u...thats why you have to mix it up still. Against Olimar, I like to do Nair>Air Dodge>Bair (Thanks Hyro)

 

[demonictoonlink]

Just wanna say that full hop Nair sucks **** against MK. Seriously, I see no time when using it would be better then regular Nair. It's even hard to hit that ****er with.

Just a note, did you guys know when a few character duck we can't hit them with Nair at all? Just felt like sharing. It's late...

 

[Thebest1pj]

off subject but dtl and hyro why are you two making combo vids when the community vid is being made?

.-. just a question dont get all *****y

 

[Hyro]

Full hop nair has nothing to do with height...whatever sh nair will hit, fh nair will hit...

I don't think it sucks against mk at all...i don't think it has to do with MU's...it's just a general strategy.

and i'm not into that community vid.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I'm not either. Way too lazy to send in clips. Still might though lol

And you're right, I was just mistiming it. It hits just the same.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Bingo. That's what I wanted to know. If timed right, does it hit the same height as SH Nair (answer, yes). It seems that I passed it off because the vid I saw it being used in was obviously using it wrong. I should be able to write it up now and on a side note, I'll start using it and fit it into my playstyle.

We is done.

Nair is done.


We are now on to the move that makes me feel like a god when I kill with it XD, Fair. the gtfo move.

 

[demonictoonlink]

BTW Guys please just call me Dylan. I hate DTL so ****ing much.

I just wanna add I think Nair is our best gimping aerial. If they don't know about it, you can usually hit with Nair and then another nair and still recover. God I type fast.

I've been drinking so please excuse my fail posting (possibly)

 

[Hyro]

I think zair is the best gimping aerial, then nair.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Just in-case no one reads my last edited post, we are now on to Fair.

 

[WindMajor]

Fair is a nice kill move, but it has a lot of startup lag. To be honest, the startup lag alone isn't bad really, although compared to our other aerials, it's terrible. It's best to start this attack early.

Something I like to do when I'm high in the air is throw a bomb down to my enemy, have him get hit by it, and as he flies upward, I try to meet with him and Fair. It's such a good kill.

Oh, and by the way, my computer monitor died (it blew up) so I'll be appearing sporadically on Smashboards. So yeah, eat Flan.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I think zair is the best gimping aerial, then nair.

I knew you would say Zair is better, which is why I wrote aerial. Is Zair really considered an aerial? If so, I failed.

Oh and fair is good.

 

[WindMajor]

Zair

Z aerial.

That's two fails in a row, Bob! ^_^

 

[MJG]

What weird about Fair is that we can jump after we SH Fair...but we can't jump after we do a SH Nair...More on fair tomorrow...sleep time

 

[demonictoonlink]

We can get Nair or Bair's hitbox out after shorthop fair.

Nair is our laggiest not Dair/Uair aerial.

**** it, Jacob...

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

What weird about Fair is that we can jump after we SH Fair...but we can't jump after we do a SH Nair...More on fair tomorrow...sleep time

Try using Nair sooner, or reading the guide

Edit: And, Dylan, apparently the frame data says otherwise. It goes like this in order of landing lag. Bair, Nair, Fair, Uair then Dair. (unless of course you want count Zair (it would go first before Bair) which has no extra landing lag, it just has the 2 or 4 frames of normal landing lag depending on if you fast falled or not.)
It's close though.

 

[TLMSheikant]

That's 2 fails, Dylan XD. Daniel's monitor blew lmao u suck. Fair is goodz. It has less ending lag than nair IIRC. Though a lot more startup lag. I <3 bomb to fair. Its also got good range, trades or outspaces lots of stuff.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Goddamit guize...

K but I'm still pretty sure Nair is overall laggier (in the air) then fair. I'd check but I don't want to.

 

[MJG]

lol @ dylan

@Fiod: And im not sure why I said that *tired johns*

In my post, I meant that, Fair's start up time is slower than nairs but the ending lag on Fair is less than Nair

 

[demonictoonlink]

So I didn't fail?

Does anyone know what happened to Rutger's awesome frame data thread? That would answer our question.

 

[Sosuke]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226959

 

[Hyro]

Wow what are ya'll talking about lol, the last page was terrible

You can DEFINITELY double jump after you short hop nair...

Nair is a very fast move...you can short hop fast fall it and it'll be done...try that with a fair and you'll hit the ground before the move is finished...and I'm not positive but I'd put money nair has less landing lag then a fair.

 

[MJG]

I don't think you read the last few posts of this page before posting that.

I stated that it IS possible (and then corrected myself in my last post). I've even done this in some of my recent matches (Portrayed in matches on youtube).

 

[TLMSheikant]

It IS possible and very easy to DJ after a nair, that's like 08 stuff manz.

 

[WindMajor]

I thought we were talking about Fair.

Nair comes out quick, has some ending lag, little landing lag.

Fair has a lot of starting lag, ends somewhat quickly, has bad landing lag if you are still in the animation.

If you can arrow cancel it, you can DJ it. If you can arrow cancel a Nair, you can most likely DJ it.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Oh I see what's wrong here.

We can get Nair or Bair's hitbox out after shorthop fair.

Nair is our laggiest not Dair/Uair aerial.

**** it, Jacob...

You meant to say it has a longer duration then Fair. Lag is different. In which case, you're right. Nair does have a slightly longer duration the Fair. But Nair has more landing lag then Fair, that's what I thought you meant when you said lag.

For the record.
Nair has a longer Duration the Fair.
Fair has longer landing lag then Nair.
Nair hits faster (In fact, even the second hit of Nair hits faster then Fair by 1 frame), while Fair ends quicker.
Fair has a slight frame advantage over Nair in the air and when landing.
Fair in general deals out more damage unless you hit with both hits of Nair.
Fair obviously has more power.

And just in case this is still unclear, yes, you can double jump out of both SH Fair and SH Nair.

But that should cover the comparison. Now we need to know some more Fair specific things.

 

[WindMajor]

I kinda already said most of that. ^_^

Btw, walking off the stage then Fair kills so well.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah I just wanted to officialy clear things up cause the last like ten posts were mostly Nair <?> Fair related. (at least that's the impression I got when skimming through....)

I agree. Run off stage Fair, if they avoid it, you double jump Fair/Nair. It's awesome.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Fair is a really good kill move.

A get a lot of cool bomb>fair stuffs.

Kills well off-stage as mentioned.

Not a "horrid" spacing move, but we have better.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok. That's over and done with. Fair is up and written along with the basic info for our next move......... The Bair.

Let's please try to keep it on topic. If you have anything further to say about any of the moves previously dicussed, then talk about it out of this thread (just for now, until the whole moveset is done) or PM me (yes, you'll still get credit if you PM me and I use your ideas).

So Bair. Yep. You gotta love it. How, why and when do you use Bair? Discuss strategies, uses, misc, whatever, as long as it has to do with bair. Go.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Bair is probably one of our best moves tied with bombs and zair. So spammable and when spaced properly, its unpunishable by most of the cast. Also, has incredible combo/pressure ability. Can also be our safest kill move if not stale. YES it kills not until the 160% mark but it still kills. You can also use it to RQS or jerk but I still dont see what's so good about that. :/

 

[Hyro]

You can say jerking is useless if you are really good at raring..but RQS isn't. Adding speed to your game is never useless.

Even if your bair combos aren't TRUE combos...9 times out of 10, if you do it right, you're opponent won't be able to airdodge out. I highly doubt anyone else bair combos like I do though. What I do is sh bair with the control stick and A. That way, I'll never accidentally buffer a jump with the cstick. Then, for my second bair, I fast fall with the control stick, and bair with the cstick. If you use A for the second bair, it'll be too hard to fast fall. Right when I hit the ground, I immediately go back to the control stick and A. This is where the true combos come in, since a bair autocancels, you can immediately bair again. I just alternate between these two so it's a chain of bairs that are VERY fast...with no chance of error.

After a bair you can get out a zair. Use airododge + A. If you try to just press Z, you'll airdodge since it's so soon after the bair. I also use the control stick and A for this because you need to buffer the bair asap so you have enough time to get your full zair out...otherwise it'll be short.

Bair -> footstool dair -> dair bounce -> zair -> grab/nair

^like 54% combo everytime

Bair true combos into aerial up B when you do it right. You'll kinda just feel it when it'll work. Don't be afraid lol

 

[WindMajor]

Wouldn't you have to hit with the front hitbox for that to work consistently?

Now that I'm done enjoying my 1,000 posts, I can get back to contributing to crap.

Bair.
Bair bair bair bair bair bair bair.
Toon Link is Bair.

The bair is super disjointed, quick, versatile, and spammable.
Two fit in a SH, and it can be fast-falled so it's quicker.
It's quick enough to arrow cancel.
It can be chained into another Bair.
At low percents, it can combo into and out of a Utilt.
It can kill when fresh. I don't care if it's considered a true kill move or not.
It's our momentum cancelling move of choice.
Bair -> DJ -> Dair works when you want to recover high.

 

[Hyro]

I haven't mentioned it yet but I only momentum cancel two ways now:

1. The most common, bair, DJ, bair

2. Bair DJ dair

Not when I went to recover high...but when there's NO way I can make it back. You know how sometimes you'll miss the DI on something, usually dsmashes (G&W's, Falco's, Jiggz maybe?) and you get sent into the lower corner to the point where even if you jump and up b, you're not gonna make the edge? Well the last couple months, whenever I've been in that situation, I randomly thought to bair DJ dair...and I get carried back to the stage to the point where I can time my up B and recover. It's tooooo good.

 

[WindMajor]

If you're getting hit by Dsmashes that send you low, just DI down and tether.

Edit: Just a thought. We should rate our moves on a scale of 1-5, like the ZSS Guide does.

One would be:
Five would be:

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Bair is done thanks to the incredible feedback. Which means we can move on to Uair. Tell us all you know about everything to do with Uair.

(As for the rating system, I'll consider this after I've finished the guide. First things first.)

 

[WindMajor]

Uair kills extremely well. IDK how well percent wise, but it's best to keep this move fresh. The hitbox lingers, so it can punish air dodgers depending on your spacing.

It has rare priority. Beats out every dair except for Lucario's (if I'm not mistaken).