The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[-Ran]

It's clear that he meant to pause, and that it wasn't an accident. He showboated and should have immediately lost the match because of his poor decision. There shouldn't have been an extra match. I'm a rules robot, and I believe that a tournament thread is a contract between the Tournament Organizer and the Players that enter which require the rules to be adhered properly. The time to change rules isn't during a tournament.

There are other communities that have a rule that covers this situation such as EVO:

Inevitable Defeat rule is in effect. This is defined as when a player has legally won the round or match (i.e. landed a move that will kill the opponent) but pauses the game before the game awards the round won icon, will still be awarded the win. The most common occurrence of this rule is when Player 1 lands a super on Player 2, but the super animation is a grab and the damage isn’t awarded till the final hit connects, but the opponent has legally lost the round. If there is a dispute over whether the move would have knocked out the other player, a tournament official will unpause the match, see the result of the action, and proceed from there. If the attack does not kill the opponent, then the mid game pause rules are in effect.

However, Smash isn't a game that's ended by being simply hit. Our game doesn't end until you've been knocked beyond the stage boundaries. Our life bar is a direct link to our ability to survive hits, which is an option that doesn't exist in conventional fighters. In this situation, I do believe that Logic would have died regardless of the pause button being pressed; however, I do not believe that that this should become a precedent for the pause rule. When it comes to making a rule, we have to ask ourselves:

Is it better to alter a rule so players can celebrate early?​

This is what you're asking for, and I am strongly against it. In doing so, it is very likely that the amount of players that will pause the game early will increase, due to them wanting to have a 'dramatic finish.' This will result in more DQ's due to preemptive pauses when an opponent manages to survive. Stopping the game shouldn't be encouraged, but the wording of the rule should be amended to remove what little grey area there is. It was meant to be understood that 'lose a stock' means that when you're on your final stock, the match is over if you pause. So instead, the rule should become:

Pause can be requested off and that request cannot be denied. If one pauses mid-match, the person who initiated the pause loses their current stock. If the pause causes the opponent to lose their stock (Such as interfering with recovery), the person who initiated the pause loses two stocks. If the stock loss occurs during the player's final stock, the match is immediately ended resulting in a loss.​

We make rules so that things can remain impersonal. We try to avoid creating subjective situations because then it requires more judgements being required by the TO. Clear-cut rules enable the TO to remain friendly with their scene, without being forced to alienate individuals by making a choice where individual bias can be brought in, or where the evidence for both sides may be too great to realistically make a fair decision. Pausing, as it is in the rules, trumps everything in the game world.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Can't we just leave it up to the discretion of the TO? I'd trust their judgement much more than a rule that has caused problems in the past and is evidently still causing problems.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Serious question:

Why isn't pause just turned off? Sure, sometimes it is useful, but I have never once had to pause in the middle of a tournament match for something that just couldn't wait 5 minutes. If I absolutely need to pause then it is an emergency and should be handled with special care, not given the same terrible one-size-fits-all treatment.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If someone walks in front of the TV or unplugs my controller, I don't want the match to keep going.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If someone walks in front of the TV or unplugs my controller, I don't want the match to keep going.

Isn't walking in front of TVs while games are in play grounds for disqualification or removal from the venue? If not, why not? If someone unplugs your controller and it isn't your own fault (ie you pulled on the controller and yanked it out) why isn't that considered an emergency?

Realistically this kind of thing happens so rarely that turning pause off is the best solution. Pausing is against the rules and in most cases these kinds of things can be prevented. Extenuating circumstances can be dealt with accordingly. There's no reason to make every single match more difficult and complicated so that you feel better about some distant minute possibility.

 

[popsofctown]

Everyone has the right to turn pause off. The current unity rules pretty much encourage you to turn pause off. The only way they could favor this fantastic option more is if both players were DQed if they didn't both make sure pause was turned off.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Everyone has the right to turn pause off. The current unity rules pretty much encourage you to turn pause off. The only way they could favor this fantastic option more is if both players were DQed if they didn't both make sure pause was turned off.

You can agree to any rule change you want. You can set the timer to 15 minutes, add another stock, and play on Hyrule Temple if your opponent agrees. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be suggested settings.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You can set the timer to 15 minutes

As a TO, I wouldn't let my players do this.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

As a TO, I wouldn't let my players do this.

Pretty sure it's within their rights. I haven't checked in a while but there used to be some kind of "if the players agree" clause that lets you do almost anything.

 

[popsofctown]

You can agree to any rule change you want. You can set the timer to 15 minutes, add another stock, and play on Hyrule Temple if your opponent agrees. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be suggested settings.

I misremembered the way the rules are layed out, I thought the pause rule was set out next to "8 minutes" and "3 stocks" and such. I agree, no-pause should be set as a default setting in the unity ruleset so it's clearer and more emphasized.

 

[Krystedez]

I agree Supermodel, pause should be off. To make a point, when I played my match after there's on livestream, I turned pause from ON to OFF back and forth and then left it on off.

Ran, this^... If snowboating occurs too often, turn pause off. It's not neccessary. And I'm not aware of Judo snowboating at all. All I know of is him with a blank stare.

Also, if pause is that neccessary have someone put a designated wii remote for matches like that nearby for emergencies using HOME button.

OR, better, turn pause off on your tag, an immediate rule that can be put into effect, and hook a third controller in to be able to pause the game at a refferee's will.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

OR, better, turn pause off on your tag, an immediate rule that can be put into effect, and hook a third controller in to be able to pause the game at a refferee's will.

While this is a little impractical because it requires everyone to make a tag, something that wasn't previously enforced, I DO love this idea.

We should at least start doing this in bo5s.

 

[Ghostbone]

Wait
Judo paused before the up-smash even hit.

I can't tell from the stream, but did only the sweet-spot hit Logic? Because if not, he could of SDI'd it.

But anyway, Judo paused waaaay too early, and I'd say that's a game loss for him, shouldn't even be debated >.>

Edit: Oh and the worst part about this is people saying Logic should have felt the need to give Judo the win.
No player should be pressured into letting their opponent break the rules, I don't get that.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Edit: Oh and the worst part about this is people saying Logic should have felt the need to give Judo the win.
No player should be pressured into letting their opponent break the rules, I don't get that.

Because this is kind of a grey area, you know?

 

[Ghostbone]

Because this is kind of a grey area, you know?

I don't really care.
This mirrors the situation where people were hating on Cheese for actually counter-picking people.
And how people hate on M2K for camping.

They're playing within the rules to win, Logic shouldn't feel forced to let his opponent win.
Judo apparently purposely paused.
I mean it's one thing if it's accidental, then it's kind of like..."eeeeeehhhh"
But he did it purposely, and he knew the consequences of that.

Anyway the rules say Judo loses his stock, he paused before Logic died (well it's impossible to pause after he died cause then it's game! >.>) so Judo loses.

 

[Ussi]

Judo prob missed the memo that you pause when you lost as it doesn't matter then..

 

[popsofctown]

Wait
Judo paused before the up-smash even hit.

I can't tell from the stream, but did only the sweet-spot hit Logic? Because if not, he could of SDI'd it.

But anyway, Judo paused waaaay too early, and I'd say that's a game loss for him, shouldn't even be debated >.>

Edit: Oh and the worst part about this is people saying Logic should have felt the need to give Judo the win.
No player should be pressured into letting their opponent break the rules, I don't get that.

If the brawl community had a very strong play to win attitude it'd have way fewer problems than it does.

At least this here that's so. Should I move to Australia? I just got told eleventeen times that I'm a "bad player who uses Meta Knight as a crutch to win" and I'm getting fed up.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Nah, Australia still looks down upon people who play gay.

Ghost and I are just amazing.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I just realized, wasn't Judo the one who handed over like $5 to a kid that couldn't hang out with them after winning a tournament, and got carded for that because TO considered it "technically splitting"?

If he was, he just have a REALLY bad luck with Unity's vagueness

 

[Ghostbone]

If the brawl community had a very strong play to win attitude it'd have way fewer problems than it does.

At least this here that's so. Should I move to Australia? I just got told eleventeen times that I'm a "bad player who uses Meta Knight as a crutch to win" and I'm getting fed up.

Australians are just as scrubby.

But hang with us anyway

 

[BlueXenon]

When is the decision going to be made if mk is banned or not?
I think instead of banning mk, his tornado's should be banned. He would still be the best by far, but he won't be as good. If thats not possible, then I want mk banned.
MK destroys most of the characters chances of becoming good. The only characters he helps are wolf and fox. MK does not require as much skill to be good with as all the other characters. To be good with MK, you need to learn his combo's, learn how to use tornado with out being predictable, and learn how to edge hog. MK has almost no cons. MK has no bad match ups or even match ups. MK has the most pro's: Gliding, fast running speed, almost all attacks have little or no lag, 6 jumps, unpredictable and excellent recovery, great DI, has no disadvantageous or even match ups, fastest shield roll, can glide twice, great edge guarder, many combo's, tornado is the best move in the game, great camper, great grab game, great air dodge.

Efdjfhdkjfhdjhkjdkjfndjfhkjdsfheriufhiodjflodn

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Go away.

Please.

 

[BlueXenon]

Go away.

Please.

You all are lucky to have a player as great as me in this thread.
I'm going to leave this thread anyways because im going to mariokart wii forum now.

 

[Ghostbone]

Wait, BlueZelda has been a purposeful troll this whole time, and not just an idiot?

I got trolled hard, well played sir.

Your dedication is inspiring to trolls everywhere.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^This x1000000

 

[MechaWave]

lmfao.

Ahem. Why did Judo pause in the first place? Was Judo so astounded at what just happened or what? =/

 

[BlueXenon]

In a few years, im going to win a tournament and you will all want to apologize to me for saying that.

Definition of troll:
1.
to sing or utter in a full, rolling voice.
2.
to sing in the manner of a round or catch.
3.
to fish for or in with a moving line, working the line up or down with a rod, as in fishing for pike, or trailing the line behind a slow-moving boat.
4.
to move (the line or bait) in doing this.
5.
to cause to turn round and round; roll.

I am not a troll.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I can't help but notice that all of these trolls use Link avatars.

 

[MechaWave]

Y'all just called BZ a troll and now BZ is just playing along.

 

[DMG]

Im banning him




In my mind

 

[Player-1]

The thing that makes it funny though is that his logic is still better than jebus's

 

[Judo777]

Wait, Wait, Wait. What? Yea I would totally give up probably the coolest kill I have ever gotten because I felt the need to pause? People are trying to say I paused on purpose? I paused because I whaled on the cstick up with my thumb about 3 times trying to get the usmash out and bumped the pause button.

 

[CT Chia]

The entire livestream was told multiple times that you paused on purpose.

 

[Juushichi]

That's weird because everyone in the building knew that Judo wouldn't have paused on purpose.

 

[Deleted member]

The entire livestream was told multiple times that you paused on purpose.

Who was telling the livestream this? That's just ridiculous.

 

[mikeHAZE]

i don't remember hearing that it was on purpose, but to be fair Tyrant, Tearbear and I were looking for Midwest smashers on watching To Catch a Predator while the drama went on.

 

[MK26]

New rule: Pause off, all the time. Period. A player may request to turn pause on if he has a valid reason to assume he may need to pause during the course of the match, but his opponent may veto that request if he so chooses.

End of story.

(My bad for taking hearsay and regurgitating it as fact in the tourney thread)

 

[Coney]

The entire livestream was told multiple times that you paused on purpose.

yeah, i was confused by that too. i said a few times that i wasn't sure why he paused, but when alphazealot said at one point it was on purpose, i went along with it thinking we might have received some information that i missed, with everything going on at the time.

i think what made it ambiguous was judo's reaction--after a few moments he stands, looks at the commentary booth, says "i lost..." in a defeated tone, maybe was misconstrued by some as a confession

very sorry to relay the wrong information

 

[ぱみゅ]

In any case, nobody can judge if Judo did it on purpose or not, no matter what he, Logic, or any witness says.
Rules are Rules, and Today made the right choice by sticking to them whatsoever.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You know, if someone paused on me on accident, I'd probably just let it go. If I paused on accident on a crucial moment, ICs CGing me, I'd SD my current stock.

Then again not everyone is me I guess.