Third Party Discussions only

[Carolus Rex]

But why cut him? There could be both Snake and Belmont...
They did a great job fitting him.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Because Snake really isn't a Nintendo character, or associated with Nintendo.

He started on the MSX and had a BAD port on Nintendo, then didn't show his face (In America) on Nintendo until Gamecube with a port

In Japan Metal Gear had some questionably canon sequels after Metal Gear

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well that is true. But the fact that the head developer's good friend asked a favor of him, I really don't think it will change. If anything, they would add Simon alongside Snake.

 

[fogbadge]

i wouldnt be bothered if there no 3rd party characters at all this time

i wouldnt mind sonic returning or the inclusion of the very unlikely professor layton or sora but again i wont be upset if they're not in it

also i really dont want snake to return (though if i could put up with him ssbb i should be able to put up with in ssb4)

 

[8-peacock-8]

The only people who want Snake cut are those who got their collective arses handed to them by him in Brawl.

I want him cut in favor of a character closer to Nintendo. I.e. Bomberman or Simon Belmont.

 

[N3ON]

Sure, Snake didn't really have ties close enough with Nintendo's history to merit inclusion from a "Nintendo All-Star" perspective, but he made it in, and at this point some people wanting his removal might be valid, but expecting his removal is a bit naive. There's no reason he would leave (thinking he doesn't fit isn't a reason -- Sakurai clearly thinks he does), even if other Konami characters would "fit" better alongside Nintendo characters (I agree both Bomberman and Simon do have closer ties to Nintendo).

 

[8-peacock-8]

I expect Snake to return. It's pretty obvious that he will probably return.

 

[volbound1700]

the Zelda franchise isnt very cartoony.(unless we are taling about the Toon Zelda games) its not so much about clashing asthetically. that's not the concern i have cause the fact that Snake made it in the first place contradicts that idea. its that i dont see a good reason to add them. Sakurai has stated that the third party slots are limited and he wont add them willy nilly so as not to lose focus from the game. keeping this in mind, why should Sonic gain a second rep? because he's already in the game? which is something we don't even know ourselves at this point. and if that's the case shouldn't Metal Gear get a second character as well. it is only fair. and there's more than enough characters they could add. is it cause of all the system exclusives he's had since Brawl? Rayman, Layton, Maxwell, and even Cooking Mama have all had system exclusives since then as well. shouldn't they be able to add 2 or more characters as well? my point is it is a coveted spot, and all because Sonic made it into Brawl doesn't mean his buddy's should be able to join the fray. Sonic is all you need to represent his series.

"If we simply add third party character willy nilly, than we start to lose focus of the game."
-Masahiro Sakurai

that's just my two cents. you dont have to agree with me, but that's how i feel on the matter.

Sakurai's translated quote doesn't even support any points you have made. He said he just doesn't want to add characters in general that are not quality from what I gathered. No where did he say a third party would be limited to 2 characters.

Also, IMO, if the third party is a regular and even exclusive on Nintendo systems, then I don't see how they are not a "Nintendo" character anyways. They are not 1st party but they are still associated with Nintendo. Now SEGA does put games on the other systems so they don't always fit that category but they have heavily supported Nintendo systems since they bowed out of the console wars.


Also no where have I ever seen that anyone associated with Smash Brothers had stated they put characters in the game on the prospect of being fair to a franchise. I have seen quotes indicated characters are selected due to their potential in the game irrelevant to their franchise.

 

[volbound1700]

To me Megaman is more Nintendo than Ness or Captain Falcon, he put six games ALONE just on the NES. There are about 4 on the SNES. He actually has a game on the Wii something those two don't have at all. I don't get the hate by Nintendo fanboys for third party characters, I don't mind seeing them make up half of the game as long as they are third party characters we can associate with Nintendo like Megaman.

 

[3Bismyname]

like i said, you dont have to agree. and when did i say there are only 2 spots for third parties. i never said that once. all i said is that there are limited spots. not an official number. i would prefer a better quality character than another Sonic character. cause honestly i dont really like any of the other likely characters they could add sans Knuckles and i dont feel he's diverse, unique, or as hype enducing as any of the characters i listed before.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Solely in terms of character dynamics and playability, I'd rather have Snake remain, and Bomberman and Megaman replace Sonic. There seems to be a higher potential for a good moveset and fun characters with Bomberman and Megaman than what Sonic currently has. Snake is too entrenched the Smash pantheon to remove him now.

 

[volbound1700]

like i said, you dont have to agree. and when did i say there are only 2 spots for third parties. i never said that once. all i said is that there are limited spots. not an official number. i would prefer a better quality character than another Sonic character. cause honestly i dont really like any of the other likely characters they could add sans Knuckles and i dont feel he's diverse, unique, or as hype enducing as any of the characters i listed before.

I can agree to that. In my origional Post I indicated that it is unlikely we will have a 2nd character from Sonic. The only way I could see it is if Smash has DLC and they put it in as DLC.

If I had to guess, I say there will be 4 third parties: Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Pac-Man with a small chance for Digdug as a second Namco rep.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Travis Touchdown with his beam katana and various wrestling moves would make a great character.

He also makes sense as one of the biggest new 3rd parties on the Wii in a series that will continue onto the Wii U.

 

[volbound1700]

3Bismyname,

I am just a big proponent for third party Nintendo heavy characters now because I feel that a lot of the good First Party IP has been used up and the third party line-up (Megaman, Rayman, Professor Layton, Bomberman, Pac-Man, Simon Belmont, etc.) is a lot stronger when it comes to additions.

 

[3Bismyname]

I can agree to that. In my origional Post I indicated that it is unlikely we will have a 2nd character from Sonic. The only way I could see it is if Smash has DLC and they put it in as DLC.

If I had to guess, I say there will be 4 third parties: Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Pac-Man with a small chance for Digdug as a second Namco rep.

i can agree with that man. Digdug would be pretty boss too.

and i am gonna just say it again. I really think Cooking Mama should be considered just cause of the good relationship the series has with Nintendo

 

[volbound1700]

i can agree with that man. Digdug would be pretty boss too.

and i am gonna just say it again. I really think Cooking Mama should be considered just cause of the good relationship the series has with Nintendo

I thought Cooking Mama was 1st/2nd Party.

I originally thought Rayman had a huge shot until I found out that most the recent Rayman games were not released in Japan and that killed that as an option.

There are a lot of 3rd party characters that deserve a shot and appear on Nintendo consoles and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't head more into that field since the Wii U has been all about catering to 3rd parties (Nintendo is trying to get them back after they took a hit on PS1 and PS2 which stole most the third parties who were, rightfully, fed up with Nintendo arrogance and mistreatment).

 

[3Bismyname]

nope. Cooking Mama is made by an independent developing company and published by Majesco. the developer is called Cooking Mama Limited

 

[volbound1700]

Solely in terms of character dynamics and playability, I'd rather have Snake remain, and Bomberman and Megaman replace Sonic. There seems to be a higher potential for a good moveset and fun characters with Bomberman and Megaman than what Sonic currently has. Snake is too entrenched the Smash pantheon to remove him now.

I honestly expect and hoped for some change to Sonic's moveset. Sonic was a last minute add to Brawl and his level and graphics aren't on par with the other characters, he looked rushed. This time around, he should be worked on early and will have a new moveset.


I really think Snake and Sonic are safe as I pointed out early there would be a big backlash if either is removed and I don't think Sakurai likes cutting characters (He had models for Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, and Roy for goodness sake and would have had them had he gotten the extension he wanted).

 

[volbound1700]

nope. Cooking Mama is made by an independent developing company and published by Majesco. the developer is called Cooking Mama Limited

Never played her games but not opposed to her being added.


There are some good 1st party adds out there by the way such as Isaac, Little Mac, etc. but I think they pale compared to 3rd party adds.

We got most of the high demand 1st parties that were missing in Brawl (Diddy Kong, Wario, Olimar, etc.)

 

[3Bismyname]

i think that if they were gonna use Snake and Sonic again, they've already figured that out and now have the time to develop Sonic better.

yeah at this point there's only like half a dozen really good first and second party choices, imo. if we could fill the roster up with really any series that has a good relationship with Nintendo (Scribblenauts, Drawn to Life,The World Ends With You, Ace Attorney). that would be great. but i realize the legalities with something like that.

 

[peeup]

I think Sora deserves a mention. Probably just because I'm a crazy fanboy, but also because halfish of his games have been for nintendo devices, he's pretty popular (not so much for Smash, just in general) and his games are founded on the idea of universe crossovers, which is exactly what Smash is.

 

[3Bismyname]

i like Sora and all, I just like other characters more. i'd rather see him in Playstation all stars tbh.

 

[peeup]

Rather see him in smash... cause I'd rather pay for a Wii U than a PS3.

 

[3Bismyname]

i already got both so its all good to me lol. but i dont see him appearing in either anytime soon.

 

[Johnknight1]

I think Sora deserves a mention. Probably just because I'm a crazy fanboy, but also because halfish of his games have been for nintendo devices, he's pretty popular (not so much for Smash, just in general) and his games are founded on the idea of universe crossovers, which is exactly what Smash is.

1. That would be a hassle, because Disney (and their expansive universe) and Square Enix (and their expansive demands) would be hard to deal with.
2. It would likely cost a hefty fee to rent Sora.
3. There are a lot better, more popular, and more deserving Square Enix characters.
4. Sora seems better fit for a PlayStation Snore-Stars sequel or DLC, especially given that the main Kingdom Hearts games are PS2 exclusives.
5. Sora is kinda dated. No really, he isn't relevant like he was back in 2005, and his series is seen as just another RPG Square Enix has, like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc.

 

[splat]

I think it's such a shame that Spyro the Dragon is associated more with Sony than with Nintendo. The little purple dragon fit in amazingly with the rest of the Nintendo's colorful ensemble, and the moves he has from his games would be easily ported to a smash game (charging at enemies, fire breathing, his glide, etc.).

It's somewhat of a dream that'd never happen. Oh well, Skylanders pretty much destroyed him either way.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Just for the record, Sora will never be in Playstation All-Stars either.

Also, Ralph would be a better Disney rep for Smash since he has a connection to Nintendo characters like Bowser.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I think it's such a shame that Spyro the Dragon is associated more with Sony than with Nintendo. The little purple dragon fit in amazingly with the rest of the Nintendo's colorful ensemble, and the moves he has from his games would be easily ported to a smash game (charging at enemies, fire breathing, his glide, etc.).

It's somewhat of a dream that'd never happen. Oh well, Skylanders pretty much destroyed him either way.

Couldn't agree more. Shame indeed.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ splat
Agreed. It's a shame he can't even get into PlayStation All-Stars, along with Crash. Him and Crash I think would be very solid 3rd party additions if they were in some newer quality games (I don't count Skylanders, sorry), stabilized as characters, and Smash got all the "big stars" not playable in Brawl playable in Smash WiiU and/or Smash 3DS.

Just for the record, Sora will never be in Playstation All-Stars either.

Square Enix would want someone else, as would Disney. Plus, both parties would probably charge a hefty, hefty fee for Sora to appear. The fact that Sora's series is based around a bunch of Disney (which features classic Disney movies, TV shows, a TV channel Pixar, Marvel, Star Wars, and Indiana Jones) and Square Enix (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc) universes hurts, too.

Also, Ralph would be a better Disney rep for Smash since he has a connection to Nintendo characters like Bowser.

Agreed. I think a Wreck It Ralph cameo would be perfect for Smash IMO. It'd be funny if they made a joke around him, similar to what Battlefield: Bad Company did with Snake.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Square Enix would want someone else, as would Disney. Plus, both parties would probably charge a hefty, hefty fee for Sora to appear. The fact that Sora's series is based around a bunch of Disney (which features classic Disney movies, TV shows, a TV channel Pixar, Marvel, Star Wars, and Indiana Jones) and Square Enix (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, etc) universes hurts, too.

Square would want a Final Fantasy rep anyway. Most likely Lightning due to advertisement reasons. (Same reason as New Dante and Big Daddy. At least Raiden has enough of a connection to Playstation to technically be an All-Star. Heihachi was the only true all-star out of the third parties....thats kind of sad)

Agreed. I think a Wreck It Ralph cameo would be perfect for Smash IMO. It'd be funny if they made a joke around him, similar to what Battlefield: Bad Company did with Snake.

Ralph Kong jokes?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

This is pretty much all that needs to be said. It's what I expect will be the 3rd party outcome of SSB4.

However, if for some reason a different 3rd party was included, my guess is it'd be either Layton or Slime, though really, I very much doubt any 3rd party not a veteran, Mega Man, or Namco.

Personally, my 3rd party choices (excluding Megaman) would be Bomberman and Banjo. However, in Bomberman's current state... that won't be happening, and Banjo is likely doomed forever.

I'll honestly be perfectly content with Sonic and Snake returning, and the addition of Mega Man.

Considering that Hudson died and Konami would care more for their posterboys Metal Gear and Castlevania than Bomber Man, it isn't that surprising.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I think Konami should just give Bomberman to Nintendo. At least they would care for him.

 

[N3ON]

^^Agreed. I know it would've been unlikely due to Konami already owning Hudson before the absorption, but I wish Nintendo had bought Hudson instead. I mean, they had pretty close ties to Nintendo, having been the third-party to develop the most Mario titles. Chances are they wouldn't have let Bomberman die (or be on the path there).

 

[8-peacock-8]

Bomberman would have lasted a lot longer and we would have seen him on the Wii U and 3DS by now. (We were so close to the 3DS Bomberman yet they fell before it could be finished)

Bomberman is a brother from another mother to Nintendo.

 

[Johnknight1]

Square would want a Final Fantasy rep anyway. Most likely Lightning due to advertisement reasons. (Same reason as New Dante and Big Daddy. At least Raiden has enough of a connection to Playstation to technically be an All-Star. Heihachi was the only true all-star out of the third parties....thats kind of sad)

Agreed. Plus, they'd want to turn everything into an advertisement for their games; they are notorious for that.

Ralph Kong jokes?

Perhaps. Or like in the story mode, he is seen (off screen) by a playable character or boss (on screen), who's like, "HEY BUDDY! STOP JUMPING GAMES!!!"

I think Konami should just give Bomberman to Nintendo. At least they would care for him.

Agreed. Bomberman would do great with Nintendo, and would fit in great in games like Smash Bros. (Bomberman in Smash Bros would be a dream come true!), Mario Party, Mario Sports games, Mario Kart, and various Wario titles, which would thus advertise him, and make him bigger.

I also think Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft should have jumped on some of THQ's assets/IPs/franchises, instead of letting 3rd party companies eat them up. They had some seriously valuable franchises and IP's which they could get a lot of money out of. Also, I think Nintendo should try to go ahead and buy Platinum Games from SEGA, or just buy SEGA.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Agreed. Plus, they'd want to turn everything into an advertisement for their games; they are notorious for that.

True.

Perhaps. Or like in the story mode, he is seen (off screen) by a playable character or boss (on screen), who's like, "HEY BUDDY! STOP JUMPING GAMES!!!"

That would definitely have to be Bowser.

Agreed. Bomberman would do great with Nintendo, and would fit in great in games like Smash Bros. (Bomberman in Smash Bros would be a dream come true!), Mario Party, Mario Sports games, Mario Kart, and various Wario titles, which would thus advertise him, and make him bigger.

The best part is that bomberman in Wario games would make a lot of sense while being in Mario party would be a nice reference to Hudson before it died.

I also think Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft should have jumped on some of THQ's assets/IPs/franchises, instead of letting 3rd party companies eat them up. They had some seriously valuable franchises and IP's which they could get a lot of money out of. Also, I think Nintendo should try to go ahead and buy Platinum Games from SEGA, or just buy SEGA.

I think Platinum got Darksiders. The rest of the games went to miscellaneous third parties and Ubisoft.

 

[3Bismyname]

it would be smart for Nintendo to buy out Sega completely. problem is right now Sega is kind of on an upswing. they've acquired some good ips and the newest games each sold pretty well so i dont see Sega selling at the moment. but in a couple years who knows.

 

[Johnknight1]

That would definitely have to be Bowser.

I was thinking K. Rool or Dedede, actually. They are good humorcharacters, and they seem like better talkers, especially after Bower's English voice in Super Mario Sunshine.

The best part is that bomberman in Wario games would make a lot of sense while being in Mario party would be a nice reference to Hudson before it died.

Seeing as how Hudson made Mario Party forever, that would be epic for Bomberman to show up there. And, again, Wario in Wario games just makes sense.

I think Platinum got Darksiders. The rest of the games went to miscellaneous third parties and Ubisoft.

Many lesser known 3rd party companies are positioning themselves to be the next THQ in terms of the success (not the bankruptcy) by getting their big name IP's and employees.

 

[N3ON]

Just to clarify, Sega doesn't actually own any of Platinum, they just entered a publishing agreement with them for a few (I think it was three) IPs. *checks* It was four, Bayonetta, MadWorld (and Anarchy Reigns), Vanquish, and Infinite Space.

Platinum is privately owned, so if they were bought by Nintendo, Sega really wouldn't have much to do with it. It's also quite possible they'd retain the IPs Platinum made.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Kind of wish that Nintendo got Saints Row because of how WTF that would be.

EDIT: Also, i can see Nintendo buying SEGA at some point.