tiers

[da K.I.D.]

ill try to get some testing done too
i just wanna say that using the second jump so early, REALLY cuts down on your recovery options when trying to get back onstage

 

[infomon]

Yeah, I know (hence my suicide mindgames post )

So it's important to develop a real good sense of where the killzone is and what you can get away with. Using an aerial asap is often enough. If you're really paranoid, and you're being sent at an angle above horizontal, be sure not to fastfall so you gain a teensy weensy bit more distance towards the corner instead of the side (Likewise, fastfall asap if you're being sent below horizontal angle... although LOL good luck getting back to the stage then.)

 

[da K.I.D.]

thats what quick side b into jump is for

 

[infomon]

Yes, but I still think that the extra boost that gives you away from the stage will kill you, when you would've been fine otherwise Unless you didn't need to even bother escaping hitstun with an aerial.

Although it'd be cool to gain that extra height, I guess.

 

[da K.I.D.]

see, this is what testing for

 

[memphischains]

I was talking to Hella today, and he told me this insane thing that happened at axis.

it was the side b glitch on the slanted platform, but prior to glitching he broke the beads with a down throw.
the glitch sent him back to the beads instead of its normal properties.

...

wtf

 

[da K.I.D.]

vids or it didnt happen


im really confused as to exactly whats happening here

 

[memphischains]

vids or it didn't happen

so am i

 

[Tenki]

I was talking to Hella today, and he told me this insane thing that happened at axis.

it was the side b glitch on the slanted platform, but prior to glitching he broke the beads with a down throw.
the glitch sent him back to the beads instead of its normal properties.

...

wtf

slanted platform?
beads?
brinstar?

1
I'm not sure what you mean. You can't use Spring out of hitstun; it's a Special, and during hitstun (the part of hitstun where you can do stuff, which comes some arbitrary amount of time after hitstun starts not sure what determines it lol), you can either airdodge, or use an aerial (A-button) attack. Or throw an item if you're holding one, which is by far the fastest thing to do for everyone, and hence the best to use (to avoid the sides.... not sure if you can fastfall the item-throw or not to avoid the ceiling lol).

2
Hrm, I'm rambling. Anyway, are you trying to avoid the side killzones with the spring, or the top one? You can definitely spring over the top into death, so don't spring thinking it can't kill you. I think the condition is that you can spring much higher than the normal vertical killzone, only if you don't have any knockback-effect on your momentum; otherwise, you probably get that weird extra boost from the Spring into death, lol.

I don't at all see how the spring could save you from the side killzones, although I'll admit I've tried it anyway out of desperation when my 2nd jump wasn't available. And I died, lol. Why do you think it would help?

3
Oh, and for single-charge down-B.... it doesn't make sense. If you're in knockback but out of hitstun, and heading toward the side... you've already regained your horizontal aerial influence. Just leaning towards the stage you'll be using your drift against the knockback on you. This alone can save you without using your 2nd jump, but the jump gives you a really big surge against the knockback, which can save you, but doesn't always. Giving up a jump opportunity (if you have it), or even just your horizontal aerial influence, for the sake of down-B surely wouldn't help, IMO. Because I think if you're in the rare situation where it could help instead of your aerial influence, then you're almost surely in a situation where the down-B start-up lag will kill you before you can release it.

I think. Hmm, I'll have to test that in the morning.

1 well, it works when surviving/stopping meteors, doesn't it? >_> I thought A/airdodge only works when you're not in hitstun,
2 side ko-wall. lol though i have done up-B to star KO before. that's funny.
3 I guess so. Are there any times when you're out of hitstun but fly for an absurd amount of time (>1 sec) while still unable to sufficiently use sonic's failaerial acceleration to save yourself? That's the kind of idea I was going for with the down-B.

I guess I've seen too many F-airs --> get KO'd anyway to fully appreciate it.

 

[memphischains]

...

in the middle of the level there are those "bead" looking balls that you can break to split the level a little.

the side b glitch on slanted platforms... duh
he broke the **** holding it down to make it slanted.

tenkitechnical get with the picture

 

[Tenki]

...

in the middle of the level there are those "bead" looking balls that you can break to split the level a little.

the side b glitch on slanted platforms... duh
he broke the **** holding it down to make it slanted.

tenkitechnical get with the picture

side-B glitch - 'airdash' glitch, right? It can be done on a bunch of levels, not just Brinstar, so... yeah.

I'm not getting the placement you're talking about though. .

Did he try to pull off the side-B while standing on the bridge, then something weird happened?

Or did he break the mucus wall thing, do airdash from one of the platforms, and then teleported and got stock to the bridge?

 

[memphischains]

you have no serious imagination

you're the new silent wolf

 

[Tenki]

=^_^=

you have no serious imagination

you're the new silent wolf

=^_^=
;_;
?_?
@_@
-^_^-
>_O

 

[memphischains]

he did a downthrow to break the beads,

broke the side,

side b on it

telephonered back to beads





??????!?!?!?!

 

[Tenki]

=^_^=

he did a downthrow to break the beads,

broke the side,

side b on it

telephonered back to beads





??????!?!?!?!

Oh, you didn't mention the D-throw.

Airdash has a tendency to teleport when passing by other platforms. I haven't worked with it enough to say everything about its behavior, but that's probably what happened (?)

 

[Greenstreet]

who does that star in thier posts? gah my memory sucks...

 

[Mmac]

Stop Copying Azen, Tenki

 

[Greenstreet]

Thanks mariofrogsuit mainer.

 

[da K.I.D.]

vids or it didnt happen

 

[thecatinthehat]

lolololol at this whole conversation.

 

[da K.I.D.]

can i get a list of tourney useable, air dash-able stages?

 

[thecatinthehat]

Pictochat
Corneria?
Pokestadium 2

 

[da K.I.D.]

shouldnt you be at school right nwo little boy...


lolololol

 

[thecatinthehat]

lololol who goes to school?

 

[infomon]

LOL @ Tenki Zagenite

1 well, it works when surviving/stopping meteors, doesn't it? >_> I thought A/airdodge only works when you're not in hitstun,

Meteor cancelling exists in Brawl, so that's categorically different.

Spoiler

Come on, step it up!

If you're meteored, then you can use a midair jump or up-B during the hitstun, but after some amount of time. I'm not sure if that's the exact sime time window that would let you airdodge, aerial, or throw an item; I think you can meteor-cancel even earlier.

2 side ko-wall. lol though i have done up-B to star KO before. that's funny.

Well, the up-B almost sorta makes sense here, because it's like DI'ing towards the corner instead of the side wall. Except that doesn't work. One, because you're just moving more up, it doesn't take away from the horizontal component of your knockback. Secondly, because using up-B in hitstun-escaped knockback also gives you the huge boost up and away from the stage I just tested.

3 I guess so. Are there any times when you're out of hitstun but fly for an absurd amount of time (>1 sec) while still unable to sufficiently use sonic's failaerial acceleration to save yourself? That's the kind of idea I was going for with the down-B.

Well, whaddya know. KID wins, I got a couple things wrong.

1. When you're in hitstun-escaped knockback (everyone alright with that term?), using even a jump, or any of Sonic's specials, gets you an unfortunate magical boost up and away from the stage. Nevertheless, you probably want to be doing any of a mid-air jump, fast-as-possible side-B, or fast-as-possible down-B to avoid the side; the momentum they each regain you is worth the momentum penalty you get for using them in knockback.

2. After extensive testing, it seems that each of those options (jump, side-B, down-B) are equivalent in their ability to save you from the side. So use whichever you like, if you're comfortable pulling off a side-B or down-B as fast as possible.

My experiment is the following: training mode, Final Destination, place DK at the farthest left of the stage, and put Sonic in the middle of the tip of the chevron pointed at DK, C-stick a DK f-smash. At 94%, if Sonic uses his Fair asap in hitstun and leans toward the stage, he still dies. ASAP Fair > 2nd jump, quick side-B, or quick down-B means you survive, up to 102%. At 103% the Fsmash will kill you no matter what.

 

[da K.I.D.]

LOL @ Tenki Zagenite


Well, whaddya know. KID wins.

common son, you act like thats not natural, it happens all the time

 

[Tenki]

Secondly, because using up-B in hitstun-escaped knockback also gives you the huge boost up and away from the stage I just tested.



Well, whaddya know. KID wins, I got a couple things wrong.

1. When you're in hitstun-escaped knockback (everyone alright with that term?), using even a jump, or any of Sonic's specials, gets you an unfortunate magical boost up and away from the stage. Nevertheless, you probably want to be doing any of a mid-air jump, fast-as-possible side-B, or fast-as-possible down-B to avoid the side; the momentum they each regain you is worth the momentum penalty you get for using them in knockback.

2. After extensive testing, it seems that each of those options (jump, side-B, down-B) are equivalent in their ability to save you from the side. So use whichever you like, if you're comfortable pulling off a side-B or down-B as fast as possible.

My experiment is the following: training mode, Final Destination, place DK at the farthest left of the stage, and put Sonic in the middle of the tip of the chevron pointed at DK, C-stick a DK f-smash. At 94%, if Sonic uses his Fair asap in hitstun and leans toward the stage, he still dies. ASAP Fair > 2nd jump, quick side-B, or quick down-B means you survive, up to 102%. At 103% the Fsmash will kill you no matter what.

aw@ up-B giving the boost. too bad ;l
That's good, you have a testing method lol. I can only play on weekends as my roommate took home his wii during one of the breaks lol. Does charging the down-B give you a boost too?

can i get a list of tourney useable, air dash-able stages?

Delfino (dome shaped tower)
Brinstar (slanted platforms; also on the right main platform, if you do a side-B going left, you'll do an invincible SDR > invincible ASC)
Pokemon Stadium 1 (water: windmill, slant on the right side of the stage - i think it lets you airdash going to the right; playground: sides of the trees, the little slanted parts on the ground except for the very left one?)
Rainbow Cruise (right side of the ship; pendulum platform; hills on the sidescroll part)
Brawl Yoshi's Island (edges, lets you iSDR across the stage - if you fall off, you do an iASC)
Melee YI (hills - do a single charge side-B and the hill will change your direction, pipes)
Corneria (fin)


that's all I can think of atm. lol

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

common son, you act like thats not natural, it happens all the time

Common son. LMAO

I know you meant C'mon son but Common son is just SO much better.

Also Tenki. I thought you were like 16 why do you have a roommate?

 

[Tenki]

16 and 19 kind of look the same, but I guess if you kind of look at 6 and 9, they're rotated.
see, it's like a yin yang image: 69

like perfect harmony.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Well I picked the number out of thin air. I thought you were a High School kid I guess would be what I SHOULD have said.

 

[Tenki]

12/f/gA

yEaHz : ))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[thecatinthehat]

12/f/gA

yEaHz : ))))))))))))))))))))))

I thought you were serious. Shame on me.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

12/f/gA

yEaHz : ))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[memphischains]

I was talking to Hella today, and he told me this insane thing that happened at axis.

it was the side b glitch on the slanted platform, but prior to glitching he broke the beads with a down throw.
the glitch sent him back to the beads instead of its normal properties.

...

wtf

tenki wtf dude

 

[infomon]

lmao @ thread.... I'm almost embarassed I started "trolling" here with legitimate posts about complicated brawl game mechanics lol

uhmm, steak is liek yummy 'n stuf amirite!? tenki r kuuute! :blush: :blush:

Does charging the down-B give you a boost too?

Yes. So you're almost certainly best off to use Fair to escape hitstun asap, then asap release a side-B towards the stage.

AFAICT the start-up lag for side-B and down-B are actually the same. Anyone care to refute?

Edit: On second thought, it doesn't make any sense to me that using your 2nd jump wouldn't be strictly superior (in terms of survivability) than using a side-B or down-B. The jump has no start-up lag, and fights pretty strong against the knockback, although obv not as strong as a spindash once it gets going. Humm. Might only matter for a sub-percent difference at high percents with high-knockback moves that send you a great distance across a huge stage. The optimal strategy might be to aerial > jump > side-B all asap lol, idk though.

And down-B might be actually better than side-B; even though you'd have to get the timing of it quite precise, you can actually lean the charging state of the down-B towards the stage..... hrrrm, well actually in the time before it gets a single charge (so you can actually release it), I'm not sure the aerial influence has an effect on it, so maybe that's wrong. Does anyone know?

 

[Tenki]

tenki wtf dude

@_@;

it's possible to D-throw and break some of the beads, but the opponent just falls through the floor.

What I've been yelling 'CP BRINSTAR!' for is for doing D-throw to break the bridge altogether.

But how does he teleport back on the beads if he broke through the bridge? Are they gone? etc.

 

[memphischains]

yeah they were all broken

 

[da K.I.D.]

infzy
single charge down b only works if you hit the c stick for a spin shot which uses jump2 and goes against what we were trying to do in the first place

terios
your right im awesome, and your pic is too good!

MC
vids or it didnt happen, no johns

 

[memphischains]

meta john .

 

[R4ZE]

using your second jump before an ASC or ASD is almost always a bad idea.... in fact using sonic's aerial jump should be avoided if possible. because it renders ASC and ASD a lot less usable as they would no longer be cancelled until you touch the ground.

sonic's air jump is VERY important.