Gea
Smash Master
Is it worth the money?
-
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TMNT: Smash Up. A fighter by Brawl developers
- Thread starter Crispy4001
- Start date
Meh, this would probably be a rent instead of a buy. I'm almost all the way through the content (including all unlockables) and unless this game turns out to be very good competitively (which it doesn't currently look like it will be, but maybe), I think the game will die quietly.
I've noticed strong attacks are pretty much the most effective way to fight, combos deal such horrible damage and if you combo into strong attacks it's damage output is severely reduced, a single strong attack will typically do more damage than a whole combo, so from I've found a character with good spacing and quick strong attacks comes out on top. I'm spending a lot of time on splinter for now. His neutral strong and f-tilt strong are both very fast and deal either knock down or stun if they connect.
I've noticed strong attacks are pretty much the most effective way to fight, combos deal such horrible damage and if you combo into strong attacks it's damage output is severely reduced, a single strong attack will typically do more damage than a whole combo, so from I've found a character with good spacing and quick strong attacks comes out on top. I'm spending a lot of time on splinter for now. His neutral strong and f-tilt strong are both very fast and deal either knock down or stun if they connect.
nevershootme
Smash Master
I feel it's not worth the $50 price tag
Crispy4001
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
- Messages
- 730
Want it to rock? I have the game. It's fun and I enjoy it. What more can I really say?
As for being worth $50, if you didn't feel jipped at $50 paying for Melee, you probably won't have much of a problem here. Maybe you'll be dissapointed a little disappointed if you wanted a Smash Bros clone, since that's not really the most apt description of it. It's still plenty deep, the character all have a bigger learning curve at the start than the Smash games, and it should be fairly technical once we all get a better grasp on its combo and grab reversal systems. In a different way than Brawl, of course.
I only wish Brawl could in retrospect be made less laggy online like this game. Not that I still wouldn't recommend trying/buying this game if it was.
Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait... Did you just compare TMNT Smash Up to MELEE? Seriously? You think they are of equal value? Let's get serious here, dude. This game is no where near on the level of Melee, and this is coming from a die-hard TMNT fan who owns a copy of issue #1 of the comics. Melee had 26 characters from a bunch of Nintendo's top franchises vs. 16 that don't even span more than just the most recent series of turtles stuff. Melee had more stages, ended up on a pro gaming circuit, was a best-selling Gamecube title for every month following its release and contained more than 6 years worth of fun. Melee was worth the price of the Gamecube, four controllers, a memory card the game and maybe a TV to play it on. There is no way TMNT Smash Up can match up to that level of value...
Now, is it worth $50? Maybe... if you are getting bored of Brawl, or like fighters in general and are looking for something fun to play, or are a big TMNT fan. But if you are looking for "Smash with Ninja Turtles" then pass on it. It won't be what you are expecting.
Now, is it worth $50? Maybe... if you are getting bored of Brawl, or like fighters in general and are looking for something fun to play, or are a big TMNT fan. But if you are looking for "Smash with Ninja Turtles" then pass on it. It won't be what you are expecting.
Gea
Smash Master
Hmm thanks for the honest answers. I'll probably rent it then. 
Crispy4001
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
- Messages
- 730
I was mainly referring to about the amount of modes and content with that comment. It doesn't have Melee's (garbage) adventure mode. And it does have less characters and stages. On the other hand, there's a good online mode, tag team matches, online tournaments, and I feel like the characters take longer individually to get a feel for at a basic level.
Obviously, I'm not going to put Melee and this game on the same level of quality. Melee's still my favorite Smash game by FAR, and I doubt I'll enjoy this more in the long run. Compared with Brawl I think this game could hold up better. I'm undecided yet on if its is more fun or deep; maybe it's just having better online spoils me. But it definitely can't compare with Brawl's absurd amount of trinkets and do-dads, or the gargantuan character roster. Not that anyone should've expected it to.
So yeah, I don't think many people who bought Melee for $50 would be dissapointed content-wise. Never meant to put these two games on the same level quality-wise. But you do still get plenty for your money I feel. More than most first entries in a fighting game franchise.
Boofy!
Smash Champion
Ok, I see where you are coming from I guess... still wrong... but I understand you better.
I do like the idea of the tag mode. I haven't screwed around with it too much yet but I like it in the VS games so it might be pretty sweet in TMNTSU if its done right. I've unlocked everything there is to unlock minus codes and a couple of art pieces, so I'm just gonna work on tactics with my favs for the next couple of days. Leo, Splinter, Karai, Foot Soldier.
B is totally right about the hard attacks vs. combos. I was playing online this afternoon and people would combo, combo, combo and then I'd do a hard attack and we'd be at equal damage. Someone wasn't paying attention when they balanced this. lol... its going to drive the game towards lots of set-ups for hard attacks instead of playing to pressure your opponents and pushing combos.
Wall jumping online is laaaaaame... lag makes it so hard to get back up on the Manhattan level. I spent half a match trying to time my jumps out of a pit because lag kept screwing me up. The online play really doesn't seem to be that much better than Brawl from my perspective and I've got a good connection. So meh at that...
I do like the idea of the tag mode. I haven't screwed around with it too much yet but I like it in the VS games so it might be pretty sweet in TMNTSU if its done right. I've unlocked everything there is to unlock minus codes and a couple of art pieces, so I'm just gonna work on tactics with my favs for the next couple of days. Leo, Splinter, Karai, Foot Soldier.
B is totally right about the hard attacks vs. combos. I was playing online this afternoon and people would combo, combo, combo and then I'd do a hard attack and we'd be at equal damage. Someone wasn't paying attention when they balanced this. lol... its going to drive the game towards lots of set-ups for hard attacks instead of playing to pressure your opponents and pushing combos.
Wall jumping online is laaaaaame... lag makes it so hard to get back up on the Manhattan level. I spent half a match trying to time my jumps out of a pit because lag kept screwing me up. The online play really doesn't seem to be that much better than Brawl from my perspective and I've got a good connection. So meh at that...
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
On combo's vs hard attacks, there is a naruto fighting game...
I have no idea how to use special attacks in it, unlike the people I fight against.
But I am very good at combo's and never let the opponent get the chance to use special attacks.
...Is it something like that? Where the combos can balance out the hard attacks by disrupting the other character?
Gea
Smash Master
No, he's saying there is little point in learning combos when a single hard attack can do more damage than a string of hits due to move decay while a combo is happening. This is pretty standard affair in many fighting games, but usually the payout for the combo is greater.
Especially since it sounds like strong attacks aren't that hard to land in comparison to combo starters. We'll see I guess.
Especially since it sounds like strong attacks aren't that hard to land in comparison to combo starters. We'll see I guess.
Normally, the payout for a good combo would be better, but this game makes sure this isn't the case. After being hit, I think, 5 times or more, you have an instant combo break option by pressing up that gets you out of any combo (seriously, you teleport out of it and appear way up high with invincibility frames). So there is no way to get the damage high enough to make it really worth while. In addition, it's not a standard move degredation where each time you hit it gets less, its as soon as you start a combo, every move deals as much damage as your weakest attack. It's far safer to use f-strong with the majority of the characters because of the priority and range they have. Weak combos only seem to be useful for counter-pressure if your opponent is too close for comfort, but even then rolling away or grabbing is normally better.
I don't have it yet due to some hilarity (I asked a Best Buy employee, and apparently their copies simply disappeared). However, I was on the phone with a friend last night who acquired a copy, and he got in some games with his roommate and had impressions. He's not much of a smasher (not terribad though), but he's pretty into fighting games, mostly Street Fighter IV, so he is credible to judge a new fighter. We seem to have a shortage of perspectives so far so I'll communicate what I heard for now (though tomorrow I'll be able to confirm/deny). I should point out that he only had the initially available stuff (turtles, Splinter, April, Casey, starting stages) plus the five villains you unlock thought story mode (Karai, Shredder, Utrominator, Foot Ninja, Nightwalker).
He seemed to think the general engine was alright. Apparently it is a big sluggish, but he didn't think it was bad at all... though he did point out that we play Brawl and SFIV, the two slowest paced fighters on the market right now, so while we shouldn't even be a little bothered, maybe some other people would be. Characters have a lot of attacks, but he felt the inputs were less natural than they are in smash bros (things like up-back tilt are strange). In general, combos are also far more practical than in Brawl.
Speaking of combos, his one big concern engine-wise was that for most characters jab combo combos into an aerial follow-up, and that seemed to be a really dominant tactic. He did point out that Splinter was a big exception; with him just jumping around and using his fast aerials seemed like a far better basic strategy (apparently at least one of his jab combos was really bad anyway). Hearing other people really comment on how strong heavy attacks are is actually a relief to me after hearing this sort of impression.
Wall attacks seem really good at first, but he became convinced they weren't good at all. In general, you can jump nair and beat wall attacks cleanly. They have a long enough start up that it's pretty reasonable to do that on reaction unless you are right next to the wall in which case you may be forced to block. Actually getting hit didn't seem to be in his calculations for wall attacks, but he did say the similar attacks you do off the swing-bars on the Manhattan level seemed to be way better due to how fast (and therefore unpredictably) you fly off those bars.
In general, apparently grab range is huge, and grabs apparently do enough damage to be worth it. It sounds like you really need to think of throwing more like in traditional fighters than SSB; he was talking about tic-throw set-ups and the damage the throws do themselves moreso than comboing out of a throw.
In terms of character balance, he seemed to think it was pretty good at an initial glance (i.e. one night's worth of playing). No one stood out to him as especially overpowered, but he did see a few characters he thought were weak. He thought April seemed to be the worst character he had (remember he didn't have Fugitoid or the Rabbids so we can't consider them), and after a pause he said he thought Michelangelo seemed low tier as well. He thought Splinter wasn't bad, but his assessment wasn't rosy either. He figured Splinter was a character who was a good candidate for mid tier but would probably never rise above that. He was really on the fence about Shredder. On one hand, Shredder has plenty of good moves, but Shredder has a disproportionate number of bad moves that he worried might limit Shredder. All the others (Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello, Casey, Karai, Foot Ninja, Utrominator, Nightwalker) seemed to be at rough parity to him, and he wasn't able to figure which ones were stronger or weaker among them.
Apparently Casey isn't the only one with "Aether". April and Karai also have very similar moves with April's being the most similar to Aether (she actually throws the sword and jumps up for it). It should be noted that all of these are actually just ground moves; you can't use it to recover. Comparing Casey to Ike may be fair anyway; apparently Casey is quite the powerhouse.
As per stages, he seemed to think every stage was, at an initial glance, fair. The two stages he seemed to like the least were the Jungle and Sewers (the two stages with the crocodiles) since the crocs are nearly instant death if you are on the ground when the warning siren goes off (he thinks if you're in a standing state, as opposed to slammed into the ground, you may have a small window to jump out of the way of the crocs). However, when I asked him if he thought those two stages were fair and played devil's advocate with some arguments, he said he thought they were. His reasoning was that the crocs are similarly limiting to both players, and they aren't particularly random. They're an extreme hazard, but to him they seemed like the sort of thing that skilled play should be able to avoid. He strongly impressed that it would be pretty scrubby to ban any of the initially available stages without careful review by having them legal in tournaments (he doesn't know about the unlockable stages since he doesn't have them!). Other than the crocs, he didn't seem to think hazards were worrysome; I never heard him once complain about them. In fact, the only other time he specifically mentioned a stage is in mentioning that Donatello may be a little ridiculous on the Dojo (basically a flat, box-like stage). Donatello apparently has some combo that does tons of damage involving slamming off the ceiling there. I would guess (he wasn't sure) you could escape it by teching the ceiling, but he did remark that it's really fast so that wasn't easy. Remembering that Donatello is a long range zoning character, the type of character that isn't "supposed to" have many combos...
That's about all I remember from his impressions. It makes me excited for the game, and tomorrow with the official release making the game easy to find, I should have some of my own (we'll be playing online). I hope someone found that interesting; personally I've been thirsty for good info so I figured maybe someone else would appreciate this sort of thing.
EDIT: He just called me today actually, and he adds some notes. He thinks he may have somewhat underrated Splinter and overrated Shredder. He also apparently unlocked Fugitoid and thought he was ridiculous with a ton of multi-hit moves, good range, a great projectile, and apparently at least one really practical hit-confirm . That is, his initial impression is that Fugitoid seems overpowered.
He seemed to think the general engine was alright. Apparently it is a big sluggish, but he didn't think it was bad at all... though he did point out that we play Brawl and SFIV, the two slowest paced fighters on the market right now, so while we shouldn't even be a little bothered, maybe some other people would be. Characters have a lot of attacks, but he felt the inputs were less natural than they are in smash bros (things like up-back tilt are strange). In general, combos are also far more practical than in Brawl.
Speaking of combos, his one big concern engine-wise was that for most characters jab combo combos into an aerial follow-up, and that seemed to be a really dominant tactic. He did point out that Splinter was a big exception; with him just jumping around and using his fast aerials seemed like a far better basic strategy (apparently at least one of his jab combos was really bad anyway). Hearing other people really comment on how strong heavy attacks are is actually a relief to me after hearing this sort of impression.
Wall attacks seem really good at first, but he became convinced they weren't good at all. In general, you can jump nair and beat wall attacks cleanly. They have a long enough start up that it's pretty reasonable to do that on reaction unless you are right next to the wall in which case you may be forced to block. Actually getting hit didn't seem to be in his calculations for wall attacks, but he did say the similar attacks you do off the swing-bars on the Manhattan level seemed to be way better due to how fast (and therefore unpredictably) you fly off those bars.
In general, apparently grab range is huge, and grabs apparently do enough damage to be worth it. It sounds like you really need to think of throwing more like in traditional fighters than SSB; he was talking about tic-throw set-ups and the damage the throws do themselves moreso than comboing out of a throw.
In terms of character balance, he seemed to think it was pretty good at an initial glance (i.e. one night's worth of playing). No one stood out to him as especially overpowered, but he did see a few characters he thought were weak. He thought April seemed to be the worst character he had (remember he didn't have Fugitoid or the Rabbids so we can't consider them), and after a pause he said he thought Michelangelo seemed low tier as well. He thought Splinter wasn't bad, but his assessment wasn't rosy either. He figured Splinter was a character who was a good candidate for mid tier but would probably never rise above that. He was really on the fence about Shredder. On one hand, Shredder has plenty of good moves, but Shredder has a disproportionate number of bad moves that he worried might limit Shredder. All the others (Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello, Casey, Karai, Foot Ninja, Utrominator, Nightwalker) seemed to be at rough parity to him, and he wasn't able to figure which ones were stronger or weaker among them.
Apparently Casey isn't the only one with "Aether". April and Karai also have very similar moves with April's being the most similar to Aether (she actually throws the sword and jumps up for it). It should be noted that all of these are actually just ground moves; you can't use it to recover. Comparing Casey to Ike may be fair anyway; apparently Casey is quite the powerhouse.
As per stages, he seemed to think every stage was, at an initial glance, fair. The two stages he seemed to like the least were the Jungle and Sewers (the two stages with the crocodiles) since the crocs are nearly instant death if you are on the ground when the warning siren goes off (he thinks if you're in a standing state, as opposed to slammed into the ground, you may have a small window to jump out of the way of the crocs). However, when I asked him if he thought those two stages were fair and played devil's advocate with some arguments, he said he thought they were. His reasoning was that the crocs are similarly limiting to both players, and they aren't particularly random. They're an extreme hazard, but to him they seemed like the sort of thing that skilled play should be able to avoid. He strongly impressed that it would be pretty scrubby to ban any of the initially available stages without careful review by having them legal in tournaments (he doesn't know about the unlockable stages since he doesn't have them!). Other than the crocs, he didn't seem to think hazards were worrysome; I never heard him once complain about them. In fact, the only other time he specifically mentioned a stage is in mentioning that Donatello may be a little ridiculous on the Dojo (basically a flat, box-like stage). Donatello apparently has some combo that does tons of damage involving slamming off the ceiling there. I would guess (he wasn't sure) you could escape it by teching the ceiling, but he did remark that it's really fast so that wasn't easy. Remembering that Donatello is a long range zoning character, the type of character that isn't "supposed to" have many combos...
That's about all I remember from his impressions. It makes me excited for the game, and tomorrow with the official release making the game easy to find, I should have some of my own (we'll be playing online). I hope someone found that interesting; personally I've been thirsty for good info so I figured maybe someone else would appreciate this sort of thing.
EDIT: He just called me today actually, and he adds some notes. He thinks he may have somewhat underrated Splinter and overrated Shredder. He also apparently unlocked Fugitoid and thought he was ridiculous with a ton of multi-hit moves, good range, a great projectile, and apparently at least one really practical hit-confirm . That is, his initial impression is that Fugitoid seems overpowered.
I hope this isn't the poor shredder user I just played on wifi several times. I'm convinced I get the same 2 people in wifi just because of character selections. He used other characters too, but normally started with shredder, karai, and later donnie. Some of the things you've said seem to be reflected in the way this fellow played as well.
On the subject of the hazards. On random wifi, its really easy to exploit any hazard or ledge. The scoring for wifi goes by kills, not deaths... so you can literally jump off of the side and the other person doesn't get a point... it's pretty ridiculous. Luckily, you can use your own settings (survivor mode) in friend battles.
The two that seem to stand out to be the best right now, for me, are Splinter and Foot Ninja. Splinter I think is a little better because his attacks are less advertised and seem to have less lag; but Foot Ninja has absurd coverage on his attacks. Very wide range, pretty fast and strong, and a pretty sick f-strong > throw "combo" that deals 180 dmg if both parts of the f-strong hit. So far I've only used it on the cpu though, as I don't really play Foot Ninja. I just figured this out doing survival mode to unlock his alternate costume.
Speaking of the cpu, on the highest setting, they seem to be able to break or reverse my throws a LOT of the time. That will be something everybody needs to learn because a typical throw does 100 dmg, stronger than any combo I've seen and on par with the strongest attacks.
He hasn't played WiFi at all yet. His main qualification for using a character a lot in a fighting game is them being good (he's a total tier ***** in every game) so if he thinks Shredder isn't good, he wouldn't be using Shredder much if he's seeking out competition.
I agree with B-Run's assessment of Foot Ninja and Splinter. I wanted to play Leo + Splinter as mains and found pretty quickly that Splinter was better. I also really wanted to play Karai a bit, but after unlocking Foot Ninja I found that she just wasn't as good either. I am still kicking it with Leo a lot because he's always been my favorite turtle, but second to him has been the Foot Ninja because he's good and he feels like a winner.
AA, I pretty much agree on most of your friends assessments, but he's not seeing past his expectations if he's thinking the dominant moves are simple combos into an aerial. Those are the most obvious combos, but as a couple of us have pointed out, the hard hits and grabs are more important. They do the real damage. The string + aerial chase just feels more important. For instance, play through survival mode and you'll be best served by using throws. You even have invincible frames during the throwing animation to keep you safe from multiple attackers.
I disagree on the level hazards though. "Fair," as in it puts equal pressure on both players, does not necessarily mean its a valuable and effective stage for competitions. It puts undue pressure on the players to avoid a certain area and punishes them too severely for mistakes. This is not Mute City we're talking about, its instant death.
AA, I pretty much agree on most of your friends assessments, but he's not seeing past his expectations if he's thinking the dominant moves are simple combos into an aerial. Those are the most obvious combos, but as a couple of us have pointed out, the hard hits and grabs are more important. They do the real damage. The string + aerial chase just feels more important. For instance, play through survival mode and you'll be best served by using throws. You even have invincible frames during the throwing animation to keep you safe from multiple attackers.
I disagree on the level hazards though. "Fair," as in it puts equal pressure on both players, does not necessarily mean its a valuable and effective stage for competitions. It puts undue pressure on the players to avoid a certain area and punishes them too severely for mistakes. This is not Mute City we're talking about, its instant death.
Well you said he had just called you today(er, yesterday now) about saying he may have underrated splinter and overrated shredder. I thought maybe the reason for this change was because he played shredder (when he thought he was really good) and lost to my splinter on wifi a bunch, thus changing his mind about both characters.
copypasta from my thread at the dojo:
Leonardo:
aaa -> j.a j.a combo = 65%
f.A = 100%
>throw = 100%
Did the math with a bunch of characters last night/this morning. You are pretty much always better off working on setting up big hits and then following up with grabs. Combos just aren't going to be successful in this game. Perhaps there's some hidden depth in this, but based on the numbers I feel like this game might end up being a little shallow. Even if you can find ways to combo -> stun -> combo to extend your attack strings, you're opponent can just use the escape system to break it. You would still probably end up being better off focusing on big, single strikes and grab games. *shrug*
Leonardo:
aaa -> j.a j.a combo = 65%
f.A = 100%
>throw = 100%
Did the math with a bunch of characters last night/this morning. You are pretty much always better off working on setting up big hits and then following up with grabs. Combos just aren't going to be successful in this game. Perhaps there's some hidden depth in this, but based on the numbers I feel like this game might end up being a little shallow. Even if you can find ways to combo -> stun -> combo to extend your attack strings, you're opponent can just use the escape system to break it. You would still probably end up being better off focusing on big, single strikes and grab games. *shrug*
ThatGuyYouMightKnow
Smash Champion
So what I've read so far is Street Fighter with bad poke attacks into combos.
Not a good game in my thoughts, especially if following the poke space game. Though from looks I really want to try it.
Anyone care to explain further?
(TMNT+ would be kewl. XD)
Not a good game in my thoughts, especially if following the poke space game. Though from looks I really want to try it.
Anyone care to explain further?
(TMNT+ would be kewl. XD)
darkNES386
Smash Lord
Is this a fair assessment
?
Speed
combos > grab > strong attacks
Damage
Combos < grabs/strong attacks
Grabs can be broken out of
Strong attacks require good spacing/predicting
It sounds rather balanced to me. I am picking up my pre-order tonight.
?
Speed
combos > grab > strong attacks
Damage
Combos < grabs/strong attacks
Grabs can be broken out of
Strong attacks require good spacing/predicting
It sounds rather balanced to me. I am picking up my pre-order tonight.
GreenFox
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2007
- Messages
- 663
I don't like the art style they used for the turtles, I wish they had set this up like the 80's cartoon + Arcade Video game(The only thing TMNT imo that was any good)
The new movie and new TMNT games have been lame and they both look like this but if its being developed by parts of people who developed Ninja gaiden and the core Brawl Team it's a must for me because I still have hope for TMNT and this looks like a good title.
I am REALLY hyped for this game I wasn't interested in any Wii or 360 game this year until this.
Smashboards needs a sister site devoted to this game. or some kind of sub forum
Gamecube controller is supported so that is GOOD
The new movie and new TMNT games have been lame and they both look like this but if its being developed by parts of people who developed Ninja gaiden and the core Brawl Team it's a must for me because I still have hope for TMNT and this looks like a good title.
I am REALLY hyped for this game I wasn't interested in any Wii or 360 game this year until this.
Smashboards needs a sister site devoted to this game. or some kind of sub forum
Gamecube controller is supported so that is GOOD
§leepy God
Smash Master
♪ If you look back a few pages than you would know some people's impressions. So far based on my view, this game is good, though a little too overhyped if you expect a lot from this game. And no, it's not better than Brawl, though some people wished it would. †
Okay, I've had the game for a while, and I even got to play a little WiFi. My understanding of the metagame is very thin so please take these impressions as such.
This game's inputs are fairly picky; it takes some work to be able to do even smashes consistently. This really made me mad at first, but I got over it.
In general, the engine really rewards focusing on setting up good grounded spacing, but nairs tend to be really good so jump nair is frequently worth it (you only have three aerials, and dair and uair seem to usually be pretty situational at best).
Combos are being really underrated right now. Combos are not always better than heavy hits, but the combo starter moves tend to be a million times safer to throw out, and the damage tends to be pretty close (other than the really big hits and throws). I know both Foot Ninja and Karai can do over 100 damage with a combo which is more than their throws (slightly) and a bit less than their big attacks but so much safer that it's obviously way worth it. I'm not seeing the big slow attacks as good at all; they get block -> throw punished all day. However, the hype is right about throws; throws are very, very good. Tic throwing as in other traditional fighters is a key tactic as well. In general, my feeling is that this game will be about using your safer moves (which means zoning for Donatello, Splinter, and Nightwatcher... and sometimes Leonardo) and using a grab whenever possible if you can find a combo into it or just exploit the pressure the safe moves provide (but they're REALLY unsafe to whiff so be sure you always hit with every throw attempt).
Jumping can be a dangerous thing to do since it's really high commitment ,and while fastfalling is ridiculously fast, it has a lengthy landing lag. Air dodging just kills your mobility and is somewhat limited in utility it seems. Spotdodging and rolling are in, but both are limited. Rolling is about as good as in smash bros it seems (which isn't bad, but it's hardly spammable), and spotdodging just seems like a really bad idea most of the time, but maybe it will develop into an anti-grab tactic (spotdodges are not invincible enough to dodge pretty much anything else it seems).
As per characters, so far I am mostly impressed with Leonardo, Donatello, Foot Ninja, Karai, and Nightwatcher. Donatello and Nightwatcher are ridiculously disjointed and all around very solid, Leonardo is good in a lot of ways, and Karai and Foot Ninja seem to be all around fast and safe. As per the others...
I haven't explored Michelangelo much at all and really have no idea. I need some human matches with him before I can make an opinion.
Raphael seems mediocre to me. He's really fast, but he has horrible range compared to pretty much everyone else, even the Rabbids. Maybe he's good in some other way, but I know I don't like using him at all.
Shredder is really powerful, but a lot of his moves are nearly Falcon Punch in speed. I think they might be barely fast enough to sometimes hit with, but he's pushing a lot of lines. I don't know how to judge him, but I know I'm not using him.
Splinter seems pretty decent with some good zoning and some good pressure, but I don't like how he seems to come together as much as the guys I listed as seeming the best.
April seems like a flat out worse Karai. She doesn't seem "bad" other than being generally non-damaging, but the fact that she does less damage than Karai and combos worse than Karai makes me really wonder why anyone would use this character.
I find Casey just about the least enjoyable character to use. All I know about his quality is that I hate him and never want to use him again.
Utrominator is pretty awkward, and he seems to have safety issues to me. I don't know what to say about him really.
Fugitoid is interesting, definitely a prospect. He just moves in such weird ways; I think he's probably good, but I think my buddy was overrating him. He has a lot of high commitment attacks is one thing I notice, but I can't really pin down exactly what the deal with him is yet. I'd definitely watch him.
The two rabbids we can unlock now (Splinter Rabbid and Raving Rabbid) are really hard to judge; they're pretty goofy characters. I can't make much of any guess as per how good they are other than that I think Raving Rabbid is better than Splinter Rabbid.
As per stages, I don't think any of the stages were so bad as to be insta-ban worthy. The alligator is really obnoxious, but he's very avoidable. Tech, jump, position properly, and just generally play smart. With a lot of these stages, I get a sense the developers really wanted to specifically test our ability to handle major zoning hazards. I feel that as a community we'd show ourselves as scrubs if we didn't give that style of play a chance and seriously develop the metagame on those stages before rushing to ANY bans.
As per specific stages...
The Dojo is an obvious starter stage. It's a totally non-interactive box, and it seems very fair.
Manhattan is really big, but it contains no loops. The hazards are a joke here; you suck if you have trouble with them. We should look for stalling being an issue here, but in general, I get a counterpick vibe from this stage.
Turtle Base is a platform filled stage that seems like an obvious starter to me. It's a cool stage.
Sewer is one of the two stages with the alligator, and I think it's the better of the two. The first part of the stage can have its ending hastened by attacking the left wall, and in the second stage, you have a lot of platforms that extend quite high that you can keep the fight to (so you are really choosing to take a risk if you go to the bottom, and it's totally avoidable to ever go to the lower area). I think if we put fairness and not an aversion to instant death hazards at the top of our priority list, this stage will show itself to be a fair counterpick.
The Train is an amazing level. It automatically scrolls to the right, but you can make it scroll faster by moving right. You can break off cars by attacking switches, and you take damage and get launched right if you go off the side. You get pinged against walls sometimes, but I don't think you are ever "doomed". I think this stage could go to either starter or counterpick.
The Cruise Ship is a stage I don't like at all, but I think it's fair. The camera is just awful, but the "hazard" is basically just a bottom blast zone. I'm feeling counterpick here; the way you have such a dangerous lower blast zone, awful camera that seriously does obscure information, and the "abandon ship" push this more toward counterpick than starter.
The Jungle is an... interesting level. The first part breaks very easily, and then you're in for it. The game is very much about controlling the platforms both in terms of position of characters and actually destroying the platforms. The level is a metagame all of its own, and it should be taken seriously.
The Castle seems pretty fair all around. The pits are a risk, but they seem mostly avoidable. Once it breaks, the pits become even less dangerous. This seems like a good starter candidate to me.
Enemy Base is a very interesting stage. The first form can go on a very long time since the pillars take a lot of damage and generally aren't the best idea to go after (they're really dangerous as they fall, and whoever breaks them is generally in the worse position). The second form has a very fun gimmick involving the switch where, if it takes enough damage, it randomly decides a player to target and then, if the switch isn't hit within a fairly large time window, it shoots a seemingly unavoidable electric bolt at them (testing required on avoidability). This stage is in a starter/counterpick limbo IMO, contingent on how the metagame here develops.
Western Town has a pretty odd and probably character biased layout that makes me see it more as a counterpick than a starter, but the hazard is a joke (good luck ever activating the hazard; you deserve a medal if you can exploit it).
Space Lab is deceptively terrible stage as far as I can tell. The platform is solid and has ledges that make it really inhibitory of jump nair tactics. It's so plain and simple that starter is a serious consideration for it though.
Garbage Dump is really obnoxious, and the randomness of the falling things may be too much. It seemed pretty tough to avoid as you played aggressively, but we need to see this metagame develop more. Definitely riding the CP/banned line.
Warehouse is a stage I haven't explored much at all, sorry. It doesn't seem obviously broken, but I could see the hazard really developing into an overbearing factor. We need to play on this stage seriously and develop the metagame here to know for sure.
Of course, we still haven't seen Ninja Rabbid or the Technodrome stage so who knows what direction those elements will push the game.
I'm optimistic about this game, but it's really, really young. Everything anyone is saying (including me) could prove completely wrong even in the next few weeks; the game is still too young, and it's pretty significantly different from smash bros (having some background in other fighters really helps). I do think it deserves a shot as a serious tournament game though. Of course, I doubt it's better than Brawl, but then again, Brawl is amazing so that's a meager statement.
This game's inputs are fairly picky; it takes some work to be able to do even smashes consistently. This really made me mad at first, but I got over it.
In general, the engine really rewards focusing on setting up good grounded spacing, but nairs tend to be really good so jump nair is frequently worth it (you only have three aerials, and dair and uair seem to usually be pretty situational at best).
Combos are being really underrated right now. Combos are not always better than heavy hits, but the combo starter moves tend to be a million times safer to throw out, and the damage tends to be pretty close (other than the really big hits and throws). I know both Foot Ninja and Karai can do over 100 damage with a combo which is more than their throws (slightly) and a bit less than their big attacks but so much safer that it's obviously way worth it. I'm not seeing the big slow attacks as good at all; they get block -> throw punished all day. However, the hype is right about throws; throws are very, very good. Tic throwing as in other traditional fighters is a key tactic as well. In general, my feeling is that this game will be about using your safer moves (which means zoning for Donatello, Splinter, and Nightwatcher... and sometimes Leonardo) and using a grab whenever possible if you can find a combo into it or just exploit the pressure the safe moves provide (but they're REALLY unsafe to whiff so be sure you always hit with every throw attempt).
Jumping can be a dangerous thing to do since it's really high commitment ,and while fastfalling is ridiculously fast, it has a lengthy landing lag. Air dodging just kills your mobility and is somewhat limited in utility it seems. Spotdodging and rolling are in, but both are limited. Rolling is about as good as in smash bros it seems (which isn't bad, but it's hardly spammable), and spotdodging just seems like a really bad idea most of the time, but maybe it will develop into an anti-grab tactic (spotdodges are not invincible enough to dodge pretty much anything else it seems).
As per characters, so far I am mostly impressed with Leonardo, Donatello, Foot Ninja, Karai, and Nightwatcher. Donatello and Nightwatcher are ridiculously disjointed and all around very solid, Leonardo is good in a lot of ways, and Karai and Foot Ninja seem to be all around fast and safe. As per the others...
I haven't explored Michelangelo much at all and really have no idea. I need some human matches with him before I can make an opinion.
Raphael seems mediocre to me. He's really fast, but he has horrible range compared to pretty much everyone else, even the Rabbids. Maybe he's good in some other way, but I know I don't like using him at all.
Shredder is really powerful, but a lot of his moves are nearly Falcon Punch in speed. I think they might be barely fast enough to sometimes hit with, but he's pushing a lot of lines. I don't know how to judge him, but I know I'm not using him.
Splinter seems pretty decent with some good zoning and some good pressure, but I don't like how he seems to come together as much as the guys I listed as seeming the best.
April seems like a flat out worse Karai. She doesn't seem "bad" other than being generally non-damaging, but the fact that she does less damage than Karai and combos worse than Karai makes me really wonder why anyone would use this character.
I find Casey just about the least enjoyable character to use. All I know about his quality is that I hate him and never want to use him again.
Utrominator is pretty awkward, and he seems to have safety issues to me. I don't know what to say about him really.
Fugitoid is interesting, definitely a prospect. He just moves in such weird ways; I think he's probably good, but I think my buddy was overrating him. He has a lot of high commitment attacks is one thing I notice, but I can't really pin down exactly what the deal with him is yet. I'd definitely watch him.
The two rabbids we can unlock now (Splinter Rabbid and Raving Rabbid) are really hard to judge; they're pretty goofy characters. I can't make much of any guess as per how good they are other than that I think Raving Rabbid is better than Splinter Rabbid.
As per stages, I don't think any of the stages were so bad as to be insta-ban worthy. The alligator is really obnoxious, but he's very avoidable. Tech, jump, position properly, and just generally play smart. With a lot of these stages, I get a sense the developers really wanted to specifically test our ability to handle major zoning hazards. I feel that as a community we'd show ourselves as scrubs if we didn't give that style of play a chance and seriously develop the metagame on those stages before rushing to ANY bans.
As per specific stages...
The Dojo is an obvious starter stage. It's a totally non-interactive box, and it seems very fair.
Manhattan is really big, but it contains no loops. The hazards are a joke here; you suck if you have trouble with them. We should look for stalling being an issue here, but in general, I get a counterpick vibe from this stage.
Turtle Base is a platform filled stage that seems like an obvious starter to me. It's a cool stage.
Sewer is one of the two stages with the alligator, and I think it's the better of the two. The first part of the stage can have its ending hastened by attacking the left wall, and in the second stage, you have a lot of platforms that extend quite high that you can keep the fight to (so you are really choosing to take a risk if you go to the bottom, and it's totally avoidable to ever go to the lower area). I think if we put fairness and not an aversion to instant death hazards at the top of our priority list, this stage will show itself to be a fair counterpick.
The Train is an amazing level. It automatically scrolls to the right, but you can make it scroll faster by moving right. You can break off cars by attacking switches, and you take damage and get launched right if you go off the side. You get pinged against walls sometimes, but I don't think you are ever "doomed". I think this stage could go to either starter or counterpick.
The Cruise Ship is a stage I don't like at all, but I think it's fair. The camera is just awful, but the "hazard" is basically just a bottom blast zone. I'm feeling counterpick here; the way you have such a dangerous lower blast zone, awful camera that seriously does obscure information, and the "abandon ship" push this more toward counterpick than starter.
The Jungle is an... interesting level. The first part breaks very easily, and then you're in for it. The game is very much about controlling the platforms both in terms of position of characters and actually destroying the platforms. The level is a metagame all of its own, and it should be taken seriously.
The Castle seems pretty fair all around. The pits are a risk, but they seem mostly avoidable. Once it breaks, the pits become even less dangerous. This seems like a good starter candidate to me.
Enemy Base is a very interesting stage. The first form can go on a very long time since the pillars take a lot of damage and generally aren't the best idea to go after (they're really dangerous as they fall, and whoever breaks them is generally in the worse position). The second form has a very fun gimmick involving the switch where, if it takes enough damage, it randomly decides a player to target and then, if the switch isn't hit within a fairly large time window, it shoots a seemingly unavoidable electric bolt at them (testing required on avoidability). This stage is in a starter/counterpick limbo IMO, contingent on how the metagame here develops.
Western Town has a pretty odd and probably character biased layout that makes me see it more as a counterpick than a starter, but the hazard is a joke (good luck ever activating the hazard; you deserve a medal if you can exploit it).
Space Lab is deceptively terrible stage as far as I can tell. The platform is solid and has ledges that make it really inhibitory of jump nair tactics. It's so plain and simple that starter is a serious consideration for it though.
Garbage Dump is really obnoxious, and the randomness of the falling things may be too much. It seemed pretty tough to avoid as you played aggressively, but we need to see this metagame develop more. Definitely riding the CP/banned line.
Warehouse is a stage I haven't explored much at all, sorry. It doesn't seem obviously broken, but I could see the hazard really developing into an overbearing factor. We need to play on this stage seriously and develop the metagame here to know for sure.
Of course, we still haven't seen Ninja Rabbid or the Technodrome stage so who knows what direction those elements will push the game.
I'm optimistic about this game, but it's really, really young. Everything anyone is saying (including me) could prove completely wrong even in the next few weeks; the game is still too young, and it's pretty significantly different from smash bros (having some background in other fighters really helps). I do think it deserves a shot as a serious tournament game though. Of course, I doubt it's better than Brawl, but then again, Brawl is amazing so that's a meager statement.
ThatGuyYouMightKnow
Smash Champion
I dunno if this is known, but J Cancel has been confirmed.
http://www.turtledojo.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=350
Cancel lag on a FF using DJ right when you land. Completely.
http://www.turtledojo.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=350
Cancel lag on a FF using DJ right when you land. Completely.
Well, there's a topic on Ubi's forums about the question marks on the main site in the character slots. Ubi has said that they are "unlockables" to be discovered. While 3 of those slots represent rabbids, the other four seem to be a "mystery." Many have looked at the game files and can see that there are only 26 character files; 16 for the characters, and 10 for the alternate costumes. This would leave most to deduce that they are saying "unlockables" in order to cover their tracks instead of saying "unlockable characters".
I think Ubisoft might just have something else in store for us. If you look at the character files, they are numbered 00-30, skipping a few numbers in between. The numbers run 00-15 (the 16 playable characters), 20-28, and 30 (being used for alternate costumes). I wonder if there are (or were) more intended characters. The distinct 4 number gap(16-19) between the characters and costumes could represent 4 "missing" characters, one of whom having an alternate costume (29).
There are only a few reasons this would happen. Perhaps they were originally intended to be in the game but were scrapped due to deadlines, bugs, etc... and the site simply couldn't remove the additional question marks on the characters page without causing an uproar from the general populace. My only rebuttal to that would be what are the chances they just happened to be the older peripheral characters instead of anybody else?
Another possibility is that the gaps are sipmply there for organizational purposes and possibly to cause confusion to people hacking the CD image intentionally.
The final, and most hopeful, reason would be that they intend to implement these characters at a later time via DLC. I discovered a file in partition:0 named _update.inf. I don't know enough about Wii games and structure to know if this could simply be something any wii game or wifi-enabled game would have, or even if its location implies it can't be what I'm speculating... but there is a slight possibility that in order to keep the whole game from being hacked, and to give Ubisoft more hype control (though, admittedly, it's not working very well, or maybe it is... i AM posting about it after all), they are planning to release the characters at a later time, giving the fans a reason to stay interested in the game.
I'm more inclined to believe they scrapped characters over the possibility of DLC, but I thought I'd throw that out there. If DLC isn't the case, I'm afraid the roster feels very much like:
I think Ubisoft might just have something else in store for us. If you look at the character files, they are numbered 00-30, skipping a few numbers in between. The numbers run 00-15 (the 16 playable characters), 20-28, and 30 (being used for alternate costumes). I wonder if there are (or were) more intended characters. The distinct 4 number gap(16-19) between the characters and costumes could represent 4 "missing" characters, one of whom having an alternate costume (29).
There are only a few reasons this would happen. Perhaps they were originally intended to be in the game but were scrapped due to deadlines, bugs, etc... and the site simply couldn't remove the additional question marks on the characters page without causing an uproar from the general populace. My only rebuttal to that would be what are the chances they just happened to be the older peripheral characters instead of anybody else?
Another possibility is that the gaps are sipmply there for organizational purposes and possibly to cause confusion to people hacking the CD image intentionally.
The final, and most hopeful, reason would be that they intend to implement these characters at a later time via DLC. I discovered a file in partition:0 named _update.inf. I don't know enough about Wii games and structure to know if this could simply be something any wii game or wifi-enabled game would have, or even if its location implies it can't be what I'm speculating... but there is a slight possibility that in order to keep the whole game from being hacked, and to give Ubisoft more hype control (though, admittedly, it's not working very well, or maybe it is... i AM posting about it after all), they are planning to release the characters at a later time, giving the fans a reason to stay interested in the game.
I'm more inclined to believe they scrapped characters over the possibility of DLC, but I thought I'd throw that out there. If DLC isn't the case, I'm afraid the roster feels very much like:
Gea
Smash Master
I lol'd at the landmaster.
ThatGuyYouMightKnow
Smash Champion
So since SU uses .pacs too, can't we hack it just as much? SmashBox won't show anything inside the .pacs though.
Devildigimon
Smash Lord
Edit:
TMNT SMASH UP IS A TERRIBLE GAME!!! Your better off getting a SNES emulator and playing TMNT Tournament Fighters.
TMNT SMASH UP IS A TERRIBLE GAME!!! Your better off getting a SNES emulator and playing TMNT Tournament Fighters.
where are all the moves that chain into each other?
why do these moves have the same utility (even between all the characters)? some moves i don't even know what the purpose of them are...
characters don't feel different.
music is gross.
air battle suck.
crazy red pole attack.
wall cling/attack is silly.
not better than brawl.
why do these moves have the same utility (even between all the characters)? some moves i don't even know what the purpose of them are...
characters don't feel different.
music is gross.
air battle suck.
crazy red pole attack.
wall cling/attack is silly.
not better than brawl.
§leepy God
Smash Master
♪ Well, at least this game is more enjoyable than Turtles In Time Reshelled for 360/PS3. Though I guess everytime I play this game, I feel like playing Smash Bros more. :/ †
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
LOL! That is exactly what IGN said in its review. TMNT is nothing more than an ad for Brawl. XD
Mr.Victory07
Smash Lord
So I played it at a friends house for a few hours and am thinking, like IGN said in their review, why play this when you can play the better Brawl?
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
Coming Soon: TMNT+
lol. I hate hacks.
Nintendo Power had the same to say about it. They rated it a 7.5 only because it's similar to Brawl (which seems to both hurt and help the game). A definite for TMNT fans, but, and I quote them, "Smash-Up isn't likely to replace Brawl as anyone's primary four-player fighting game." I'd like to at least try it out. Not sure if I'm going to blow my money on it though. It'd be nice to support the devs (seeing as how they worked on Brawl), but I'm not sure if it's going to be money-well-spent. A rental would probably be best.