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Toon Link Match-up Video and Critique Thread

MaskedAvnger

MaskedAvnger

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two things I saw,

You did a lot of short hop airdodges, I'd try to limit the use of those, they can be punishable.

Also, if you're recovering high, especially against MK, pull a bomb so that you have a better chance at making it back even if you get daired.
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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toon_link_ftw said:
i would love my video on this thread heres the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUhnWERLMM
Click to expand...
The one flaw I saw in your game was that you were being really predictable. If you notice in the beginning, all of your Zairs were being shielded because your opponent could already see them coming. Try to hold off on your air dodges until you actually want to Zair, then hit Dodge->Zair almost immediately. Don't air dodge, wait, then Zair.
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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Pretty much the same advice we gave you before will apply to that match.

Oh, and instead of doing an air dodge to momentum cancel, use Bair.
 
N

NH Cody

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Ashraf-

(match 1)

the match was almost entirely at short hop height. Instead of short hopping, try full hopping and using your double jump. Mixing up your jump heights is very important with TL. Then, when you're in the air, just keep pulling out bombs and sending down angled boomerangs to keep yourself covered as you land. Especially when versing Marth, there is really no need to be right on top of your opponent after throwing one or two arrows and a bomb, or a boomerang. You'd be surprised at how much damage you can rack up by camping. Really, camping is the answer to life. Try running away, then SH > bomb pull > reverse QD. Or, if you want to mystify your opponent, go for the BCAT reverse QD so the arrow goes backwards while you stay forwards. He/she will just stare, thinking, "lolwut? o_o"

Basically, you can feel free to run away and throw stuff as often as you like. And if you want to go aggro, use more aerials and less ground moves, besides a couple like utilt for a special occasion (utilt is good for strings at very low %s and has other situational purposes, sometimes as a kill move, ftilt can be used as a "get off me!" move, since it hits in back of you as well as in front, and dsmash can be used as a gimp at low %s). Nair is great. It comes out fast and it has plenty of follow up options. Use it more, and then mix up the follow ups with FF, QD or DJ then bomb pull. Keep in mind full hop nair works if your opponent is big enough. Probably not on Kirby or Olimar though. After FH nair, immediately DJ and bomb pull, or come up with some other stuff to mix it up. I myself usually FF after a short hop nair so I can start up with other moves but you can do whatever you feel is necessary/will work.

If you're going to SH > AD > zair, be sure to space it so you don't get shieldgrabbed. It works, because it makes your opponent think you're going to do that the whole time, and at that point you can proceed to shock him/her and start doing crazy random stuff like dashing and pivot grabbing or just running up and nairing (either SH or FH, like I said try to mix up your jump heights, taking the stage situation into account for things like platforms that would get in the way of your projectiles after you achieve the height of your jump. Here it's FD so projectile walls are particularly easy in my opinion).

Recovery is another important aspect of the game. TL has limited options for recovery but it's still decent. Instead of up-Bing, try other stuff like throwing bombs and boomerangs, then DJing (if you have it), or grabbing the edge with tether. And once you grab the ledge there's a TON of things to do. You could press A, R, ledge drop > bomb pull > up throw > repeat, ledge drop DJ downward angled boomerang, ledge drop DJ nair, etc.

(matches 2-3)

Again, these matches were mostly at short hop height and in close combat so take into consideration what I said before. BF is a different case, though...because you can't be above the platforms while Marth is below you. On BF, just keep up projectile walls nonstop so your opponent can't approach you, then when you are in close combat, try SH > nair > FF to get him/her off you. Ftilt can be used on a rare occasion but be careful not to have it hit a shield. Not too sure about BF...I'll just advise to SHDA, bomb pull, and boomerang while attempting to stay below Marth. Retreating Bair > reverse QD works, too.

Be more ready to chain and follow up in general. If you see that your zair connects, react quickly and rush in to nair or grab. Or just go for another zair to confuse your opponent. And try to go from utilt at early %s to bair strings. Especially on bigger characters. Not every stock though, because then your opponent will expect it and be looking out to punish it. Always be trying to mix it up. Mix. It. UP. Mix projectiles. I liked how you zaired with a bomb in hand. However, I don't recall seeing you throw your boomerang with a bomb in hand. These are extremely useful projectile mindgames. When you SH bomb pull, always bomb pull as soon as you jump so you can QD when you land. No reason not to, lol, unless you just want the bomb so you can use it when you land. That's another thing. Z-drop your bombs. It works. Leave some on platforms and leave some on the ground so you can pick it up later or just have it explode on your opponent with good timing. I saw you did the upthrow bomb stall when grabbing the ledge. That's good, just try it more.

You're a perfectly good player, just a few things here and there to work on. It's not like you're SDing left and right and throwing out stupid moves and getting killed for it. You know what to do and when to do it, just realize you have more options than you think. =)
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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N

NH Cody

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Twink-I'm focusing on the ROB match since I have no knowledge vs Pit.

keep in mind my thoughts on how Toon Link should be played are put together from observing and analyzing Jash's, Jerm's, a few of Hyro's, and a few other miscellaneous videos of tournament matches. And of course my own experience since December of last year.

*sonic side taunt*

I think the general idea is you're not as crazy relentless as you should be. Relentless as in nonstop projectiles, one right after another, occasionally following up with aerials. With fastfalls, random unexpected projectile mixups, and other elements like BCAT, pivot grab (for punishing landings or rolling), jab cancels and more bomb tech skill you could play like you're hyper. I think you should give more of a hyper look, so it intimidates your opponents while getting more damage on them with more attacks. So that would be you attacking more, and your opponents getting nervous more. You should never just be floating around in the air or jumping/falling with a bomb in hand when you could be throwing more stuff like boomerangs and arrows, ibombing, or zairing. Like at 2:20...you went towards ROB and baired over and over when you were supposed to jump or run away and throw stuff.

You anticipated bombs exploding and forcing ROB into the air sometimes, like on the first stock you killed with a bomb then a uair. That was good, do stuff like that more. Try to always have a boomerang out, so that you only go for the close combat aerials when you have to. Mid %s you can dair after a dthrow bomb if you see it hits and sends your opponent up. At least when I've done it, it works.

You should space your aerials. At 0:26 you zaired towards ROB instead of spacing it. I think this ROB made a lot of stupid mistakes, like how in that moment he should have shieldgrabbed but he just jabbed instead. I honestly believe you both made a lot of silly mistakes so that's probably why the match wasn't so fast-paced. Especially towards the end, it should have been a lot more intense in my opinion. Or at least I always try hardest at the last stock...

I think you should be more quick to react, so you can handle any type of situation that might happen. You could just get into the habit of running away and throwing stuff, or you could bring yourself to alternate between camping and then getting in close to hit with aerials. When it's time to kill, you'll have to do the latter anyway, if you want to end it with an aerial. Or you could kill from the ground, but switch it every stock or two so your opponent doesn't pick up a pattern.

ROB should have camped more, and he should have camped harder. And I think so should you have. There should always be projectiles up and running so it's too chaotic for your opponent to handle, and you should be mixing up which projectiles you throw after one another and when you throw them. Killing with aerials is solid, just do it more. You're a good player, just be more aggressive (not aggro as in close combat, aggro as in attack more, be it projectiles or anything). Press more buttons :)
 
MaskedAvnger

MaskedAvnger

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Twink, the match against Pit, you did a good job against his arrow spam, I think you could have been a little more aggresive in going for the gimp when he was caught under the stage on the first stock. It can be hard to kill Pit, so you need to take any oppurtunity you can get.

He held control of the spacing for most of the match, and that's why you were eating so many arrows. I need to work on this too, keeping people at midrange is a little tough, especially campy characters, but whenever they're at midrange, we start to rack up the damage, and you started doing a really good job of that near the end of the match, it was just a little too late to comeback. If it'd been a four stock game you would've won.
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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Pit's arrows still overwhelm me.

I didn't really want any critiques but I'm grateful for the ones I already got.
 
WindMajor

WindMajor

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Yeah I know, but I just put up the videos for the sake of putting them up. I'm still gonna use the critiques I got though! :)
 
napZzz

napZzz

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guys twink infracted near for his timeout post lol but look at what he said.​
~*tHe CaLLoUt*~​
 
Rekros

Rekros

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ToonySonic said:
ROB should have camped more, and he should have camped harder.
Click to expand...
I'm don't like camping or spamming, that's why I spammed so much with Pit, I got real frustrated with TWINK's spamming, so I spammed even harder. Next time I will spam with R.O.B. harder too. Thanks for the critique :)
 
N

NH Cody

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Well there's a difference between randomly throwing out stupid moves and camping to win

One is...stupid, and will get punished by better players, and one is avoiding your opponent while throwing stuff so you can give damage without getting it

...well I'm not a ROB player so you're better off asking the ROB boards. :V
 
Rekros

Rekros

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ToonySonic said:
Well there's a difference between randomly throwing out stupid moves and camping to win

One is...stupid, and will get punished by better players, and one is avoiding your opponent while throwing stuff so you can give damage without getting it

...well I'm not a ROB player so you're better off asking the ROB boards. :V
Click to expand...
:ohwell: Yeah OK, thanks
 
K

KunaiX

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Dec 24, 2008
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You can add my Toon link Videos

Hi Guys,

i wanted to send you some stuff of my fancy aggressiv Toon Link Style.

Otherwise, what can i do better?

First Match in a Set
Second Match in a Set

In the last Set (it exist a 3 Setmatch), i know that i made to many failures, so its not use to rate it.

This Videos can also be add for the Name Kunai.

I have another question too.

Do you know many good TL vs Sheik Videos. I have so much problem to face her, even more than MK O.o
 
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