Toon Link Stage Counter Picks/Bans {BOWSER!}

[Sosuke]

Kays, done. Thanks a lot to all the awesome Diddy Kong users that helped! ^__^
Donkey Kong is next.

Discuss!

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Ban:
Mansion-DK lives forever, pillars stop projectiles, the stage layout inhibits your air game, and DK can do some pretty nasty stuff with down-b.

CP:
Cruise- DK doesn't like being in the air too often, just be careful of the d-tilt lock on the wall of the boat.

This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure some other DK mains could give you better info.

 

[Mith_]

Donkey Kong:

Don't pick: Jungle Japes(small horizontal blast zones are bad for you, and the huge vertical blast zone makes it even harder for you to kill him. He can fortress hog well on this level and his amazing horizontal recovery allows for great ledge play for him.) Luigi's Mansion (he can block your projectiles with the mansion, and it has a high ceiling.) Brinstar (Don't let DK get a hold of your top or its over.)

Do pick: Final Destination (nothing for him to use against ur spam), Yoshi's Island (I hate this level it is TOO SMALL), Rainbow Cruise (DK has poor vert.)

Neutral stages: Delfino Plaza (sasuke explained it in the matchup thread), Corneria (******** blast zones, bad/good for both of you.)

I hope I helped.

 

[Jmex]

^ I personally love Yoshis Island.

 

[Ragnar0k]

yeah Yoshi's Island is awesome.

 

[Shadow Moth]

I think Battlefield would be good because of the small blast zones and because a small stage makes it easier to get inside the range of DK's arms.

 

[TheNix]

As has been said, stay far away from Luigi's Mansion and Jungle Japes. Castle Seige is also pretty bad for Toon Link in this matchup until the third section.

Final Destination is good for you, just play really defensively. Rainbow Cruise might be okay, but come to think of it, I haven't played TL there very many times. It might butcher your projectile game and allow DK to kill even earlier; pick with caution.

And Mithx, in this forum it should be "Don't let DK get a hold of your bomb or it's over".

 

[Mith_]

And Mithx, in this forum it should be "Don't let DK get a hold of your bomb or it's over".

You're the greatest.

 

[Sosuke]

DK is done.
Thanks DK users!! =)


Time for Falcooooo.

 

[Mith_]

LOL hey I'm a Falco user too :D

Don't pick Jungle Japes lol.

 

[Denzi]

Falco + Jungle Japes = We win (more or less)
Phantasm spam and CG -> spike into the water are too good here.

FD = Laser spam, and lots of it.

Falco isn't too good at Norfair; he has hardly any place to CG, the lava saves you from spikes, and he dies early off the top.

Luigi's Mansion isn't a fun stage to play on.

Rainbow Cruise is also a bad stage for Falco. he has no real CG there except when on the ship, and I know there are other reasons we suck there, but I don't play there enough to know what they are.

 

[Vlade]

I'd say that as a falco player I would probably ban luigi's mansion against toon link. I also try and go for jungle japes (which other players usually ban against me). Otherwise my best bet is usually final destination.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Norfair is good against falco IMO. NO CG, TL usmash kills very quickly, platforms to abuse bair. Delfino can work because his phantasm if u dont sweetspot can fall to ur doom, but good falcos wont have trouble with that. And the terrain is very good for TL. Rainbow cruise is also good against falco for obvious reasons. He cant camp that well, can get gimped, and no CG. And always, always ban FD or (if its not banned in ur area) jungle japes. Oh and frigate orpheon can work too as long as u stay on the left side. Hope that helps .

 

[Crazy Hobo]

Ban Jungle Japes, I think that is Falco's best counter pick. Also, Falco's CG on TL isn't great at all, so don't counter with stages that just weaken his cg. I would probably pick Castle Siege. First phase is small, and your projectiles will do better then lazers. Second phase has the gay statues that our lazers will not pass through, so this is where you'll **** us. TL has an advantage in close range combat. Third stage will probably be where Falco makes his comeback.

 

[Santi]

Like everyone said, ban Japes.
Lylat sometimes throws falco's off with the edges tilting and them having to adjust to sweetspot.
And the platforms can help get around Falco's lasers.
Halberd is kind of the same way except it changes and can be shorter than Lylat which helps if the Falcos like to side B ..side B...into Side B ha.

Rainbow sounds like a good pick as well.

 

[Barge]

For ice climbers, you should probably ban any flat stages (FD, Smashville, Battlefield) since IC's dominate on those.
Pretty much the same as Diddy, since they dominate the ground.
Counter - Rainbow cruise, halberd, corneria/lylat cruise.

You'll want to ban stages where ice climbers have a clear ground advantage, starter stages such as FD/Smashville are perfect ice climber stages, they dominate the ground, so you'll have to pick stages where their recovery is gimpable, stay in the air as much as possible and gimp their recovery on counter stages.

Oh gee: Didn't know this was a weekly discussion, ignore this post then, I'll post later >_>

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Against Falco, ban Japes of course, I guess Lylat's OK, you can get fairly easy gimps here, especially with Falco's mediocre recovery. Lylat's also good for camping and screws up his lasers well. But he can CG you here, so I'd say if you like Lylat, then CP it, but if not, go to:


RC: Short CG, pretty good place to camp, in some areas more than others. Quick kills all around, but this can backfire so be wary.

OR

Halberd: Again, personal preference is important here just like Lylat, like Santi said, it can mess up his Lasers, but he can CG you.


Eh, I don't even use TL...

Might start though...

 

[Sosuke]

Kays, well thats done. =)
Thanks to all the awesome Falco mains that helped! ^_^


Onto Fawks.

 

[Conviction]

I'd think FD is better stage for Fox because the size allows us to stay away from your mid range camping. On the other hand battlefield would be better for TL because the stage is smaller.
Overall I think (I can be wrong might want get other Foxes on this but) Bigger stages= Fox camping advantage, Smaller stages= TL camping advantage.


You have nothing on OUR FLAMEDASH!

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I say Lylat.

It's like it is vs. Falco, but worse for Fox since he doesn't have CG.

The tilting messes up his lasers, and you can gimp here easily, as well as camp.

Like the guys above me said "Smaller stages=TL camping advantage" which is true, you can keep him away well here and the platforms aren't too bad either.

So yeah, Lylat's a good pick against "Fawks."

 

[Zhamy]

Ban any of the big stages, especially FD and Delfino. Fox can outspace/outcamp/outwait TL on these stages.

Small stages make everything easier for you.

 

[iRjOn]

I say CP lylat its bad for the space animals...

Ban FD Fox pwns here with his reflector and punny laser spam...

 

[Barge]

Ban corneria for fox, god that place is fox heaven.

 

[Zhamy]

Ban corneria for fox, god that place is fox heaven.

Too true. Low ceilings + Wall? Win.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Lylat Cruise is the worst stage for Fox i think. I hate the wing thingys it screws my **** recovery big time not to mention the ceiling is pretty high. >_<

 

[M@v]

Best fox stages:
FD-Fox can out space you, and he can use his speed to his full advantage
Corneria-Speaks for itself
Frigate orpheon- Fox can space well here too, and the side that has no ledge makes for easy shine spikes

Bad Stages for fox:
Luigi's Mansion- Takes away upsmash, and makes it harder for aerials. Huge ceiling too, making upsmash even less effective.
Lylat Cruise- Fox doesnt have it as bad as wolf or falco here, but there are plenty of stages fox would rather play on.
Brinstar- If fox isnt careful his side b will fall right through the part where the stage breaks(assuming its partially damaged), resulting in death.

Lylat Cruise is the worst stage for Fox i think. I hate the wing thingys it screws my **** recovery big time not to mention the ceiling is pretty high. >_<

Curved firefox says hi.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Bad Stages for fox:
Luigi's Mansion- Takes away upsmash, and makes it harder for aerials. Huge ceiling too, making upsmash even less effective.

Not to mention that walls can hamper Blaster game.

 

[Shadow Moth]

The pillars detract from everyone's projectiles and I think they also weaken physical attacks.

 

[iRjOn]

Luigi Mansion Sucks for Toon Link too...

Basically CP wise I see BF maybe Delfino, and Rainbow Cruise

 

[TheJerm]

Coneria also works for us toon links btw. I did some friendlies with a fox, Cake, and I beat him there since my upsmashed killed so fast. But Its still risky and a but more on his favor. So if you get counterpicked to corneria, there's still hope.

 

[Sosuke]

Fox is done.
Thanks Foxs mains! =)

Onto G&UU.

 

[iRjOn]

I say FD is a good CP
Rainbow Criuse!(Santi!)

Ban? I dunno...

 

[Lobos]

Its funny I play a g&w all the time but we dont cp each other but G&W is a light character so stages with low ceilings might help. That could also be a downfall tho since his smash attacks are stronger and can kill us just as fast if not faster.

FD is a good stage vs g&w but if since its a neutral I would say cp.....norfair

 

[omegablackmage]

the more platforms the better vs toon link the better, fd would probably be my first strike against toon link. If not that then i would probably avoid yoshi's story, given that you could sit under the big platform and throw stuff, and it would make approaching difficult. Also there are no gimps under the stage given that the edge is a wall.

As for cp's? i would take toon link to rainbow cruise, frigate, norfair, corneria, theres a lot of stages gw beats toon link on.

 

[Barge]

Corneria is definitely a GnW ban.

Lasers for him to bucket, low ceilings and sides for easy KO's, weird ledges that he does weird grab stuff I can't even explain with it. Bleh.

 

[Jman115]

the more platforms the better vs toon link the better, fd would probably be my first strike against toon link. If not that then i would probably avoid yoshi's story, given that you could sit under the big platform and throw stuff, and it would make approaching difficult. Also there are no gimps under the stage given that the edge is a wall.

As for cp's? i would take toon link to rainbow cruise, frigate, norfair, corneria, theres a lot of stages gw beats toon link on.

I found norfair, delfino and yoshi story good for me against the GnW's I have played. I know you were at the tourney in ME Saturday. Wish we could have played. Maybe next time.

 

[iRjOn]

I know a good CP Lylat skrews his recovery over...

 

[urdailywater]

Ban Yoshi's Island -- deinetley. His recovery is good there. If he misses he can just hover over the ghost platform 'till it shoots up.

FD is pretty good against him.

 

[Ruuku]

Personally, the only stage that somewhat bothers me against TL is FD.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Same as Ruuku. Final Destination is a pretty good place to take G&W (Dunno if it's the best).

Yoshi's Story is an okay Neutral to fight G&W, TL stays safer on the ledge, and, while it's one of G&W's best ledgecamping stages, Toon Link has a few things he can to stop it. Also, the other recovery options (ghost + walljumping) helps TL get around slow-falled Dairs. Funky terrain helps landing the first hit on TL's dsmash only to get that great knockback.

I don't know how, overall, Toon Link performs on Yoshi's Story. Just throwing an idea out there!

Also hey Jman :D