Unofficial Recovery tier list V1.1

[B!squick]

God, can't we let this thread die? I'm about ready to make my own recovery tier list. :/

 

[XienZo]

It really is Ivy ALWAYS has a way to knock people off the edge with razor leaf, I've gotten Oli's off the edge without a purple and that's never fun for them.

Remember that Oli ALWAYS has super armor while Ivysaur's razor leaf doesn't always hit where you aim and has a predictable speed, not to mention that Ivysaur's a sitting duck to be hit back out again if they decide not to edgeguard.

 

[kevinw0w]

God, can't we let this thread die? I'm about ready to make my own recovery tier list. :/

sounds good, this list is terrible.

 

[Gindler]

Remember that Oli ALWAYS has super armor while Ivysaur's razor leaf doesn't always hit where you aim and has a predictable speed, not to mention that Ivysaur's a sitting duck to be hit back out again if they decide not to edgeguard.

True, but i guess you haven't even played ivy (my fav pokemon to play). You can change the speed of razor leaf, and if I'm being edge hogged I just make it so that I stage spike seeing how Ivy's sweetspotted winewhip is far more powerful than oli's pikmin chain.



but yeah this thread should die, all the oli thumpers finally showed up

 

[Brinzy]

sounds good, this list is terrible.

So says you and several others in this thread who need to be quiet and realize that most of you will never agree.

 

[XienZo]

True, but i guess you haven't even played ivy (my fav pokemon to play). You can change the speed of razor leaf, and if I'm being edge hogged I just make it so that I stage spike seeing how Ivy's sweetspotted winewhip is far more powerful than oli's pikmin chain.

They tested Ivysaur's razor leaf some time ago, and it turned out to be the same as Ink-dropping(AKA tripping), it SEEMED to be controlled, but once you take a control test of 1000 razor leafs under various controls, its statistically proven to be random.

Well, killing your opponent won't help you up the tier for recovering at all, though. I think its better for Ivy to attempt a fair or even turn around and bair them then to suicide with a vine whip stage spike.

 

[woody72691]

shouldnt they have all 3 sepreated on any tier list. pokemon trainer's ivysaur, squrtile, and charzaird

 

[XienZo]

shouldnt they have all 3 sepreated on any tier list. pokemon trainer's ivysaur, squrtile, and charzaird

Only on physical statistics; they are bound together in matches since you must switch after a stock loss and fatigue will also kill you.

 

[woody72691]

thats kinda dumb when they all have a different movesets and all have different recoveries and counters aagainst other characters.

 

[codefelp]

Olimar's recovery with no pikmin is better than with one.
And ROB is way better than Pit.

 

[Brinzy]

thats kinda dumb when they all have a different movesets and all have different recoveries and counters aagainst other characters.

Ok, I'll use this logic that is shared by you and thousands:

Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are bottom tier because they lose a 3-stock match when they die twice, at most, or usually once because some other idiot was out at the time and lost the lives. Not only that, they get fatigued the more they fight. Sounds like a Pichu clause to me, so each Pokemon should be bottom tier, Squirtle at the very bottom for being the lightest.


Why doesn't my scenario work? Because when one Pokemon isn't present, another one is. If I'm Squirtle and I have a horrible match-up, I would use Ivysaur and Charizard instead. Why should you rank Squirtle somewhere else on the tier list? There is no such thing as "Squirtle vs. everyone & Squirtle's tournament results" because 1) the character is PT, not Squirtle, and 2) the performance of Ivysaur and Charizard HELPS Squirtle in the long run. Sure, maybe not that much against a character or two, but in general, when Squirtle is not cutting it, another Pokemon will do better. This is why PT is on the list and not each Pokemon. You have 3 stocks. It does not matter who loses them. Charizard may only get one stock, so why should he be put on the tier list>

What do you think that would say, anyway? "Oh, Charizard is mid-tier." "What!? Why?" "He's underplayed and he has some problems with ______" "liek omg he shud be higher" "At least he does better than Ivysaur against everyone. Charizard is mid tier because of Ivysaur's slack" "That's not true!" "Yes it is" "No it's not!" "Yes it is" "No it's not!"

There's no reason for the Pokemon to be separate. Provide a good reason, because so far nobody has.

 

[XienZo]

thats kinda dumb when they all have a different movesets and all have different recoveries and counters aagainst other characters.

But they always share the same 3 stocks, and thats all that matters.

 

[Gindler]

They tested Ivysaur's razor leaf some time ago, and it turned out to be the same as Ink-dropping(AKA tripping), it SEEMED to be controlled, but once you take a control test of 1000 razor leafs under various controls, its statistically proven to be random.

Well, killing your opponent won't help you up the tier for recovering at all, though. I think its better for Ivy to attempt a fair or even turn around and bair them then to suicide with a vine whip stage spike.

Ah, it might be that it seemed like I was controlling it. I haven't gone to training and fired 1000 razor leafs in a row to find out.

True if I have a jump I'll Fair stage spike (people just keep hanging on because Ivy is "so easy to gimp"). I've won a few matches where both of us are on our last stock and I stage spike FTW though, it's just nice to have a good stage spike like that is all.......but yeah Ivy's recovery is really set back by her SLOWWW aerial speed

 

[woody72691]

Ok, I'll use this logic that is shared by you and thousands:

Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are bottom tier because they lose a 3-stock match when they die twice, at most, or usually once because some other idiot was out at the time and lost the lives. Not only that, they get fatigued the more they fight. Sounds like a Pichu clause to me, so each Pokemon should be bottom tier, Squirtle at the very bottom for being the lightest.


Why doesn't my scenario work? Because when one Pokemon isn't present, another one is. If I'm Squirtle and I have a horrible match-up, I would use Ivysaur and Charizard instead. Why should you rank Squirtle somewhere else on the tier list? There is no such thing as "Squirtle vs. everyone & Squirtle's tournament results" because 1) the character is PT, not Squirtle, and 2) the performance of Ivysaur and Charizard HELPS Squirtle in the long run. Sure, maybe not that much against a character or two, but in general, when Squirtle is not cutting it, another Pokemon will do better. This is why PT is on the list and not each Pokemon. You have 3 stocks. It does not matter who loses them. Charizard may only get one stock, so why should he be put on the tier list>

What do you think that would say, anyway? "Oh, Charizard is mid-tier." "What!? Why?" "He's underplayed and he has some problems with ______" "liek omg he shud be higher" "At least he does better than Ivysaur against everyone. Charizard is mid tier because of Ivysaur's slack" "That's not true!" "Yes it is" "No it's not!" "Yes it is" "No it's not!"

There's no reason for the Pokemon to be separate. Provide a good reason, because so far nobody has.

your there, but i feel they should be seperated in the case of individual fighters right?

 

[shboke]

marth should be up you forget his shield breaker moves him a good distance and he his good up b recovary

 

[Contrary]

What about Solo IC?!

 

[Kage Me]

Ice Climbers should be a lot higher. Have you seen the recovery distance on Squall when they're both present? Belay also covers a neat distance, and they're generally a lot harder to gimp than Fox <_<

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Ice Climbers should be a lot higher. Have you seen the recovery distance on Squall when they're both present? Belay also covers a neat distance, and they're generally a lot harder to gimp than Fox <_<

Kage, the problem with their recovery is what happens if they edgehog to stop your belay and wait for your squall so that they can do a dair on you? Also, if they edgehog and you manage got back on the ground with squall, you are wide open for punishment from an ledge dropped jump to an aerial attack or a ledge get up during you squall to a free smash since squall has to exchange horizontal momentum to increase vertical momentum making it hard to land away from the edge and not get punished by Squall's horrible landing lag.

 

[AvaricePanda]

What the heck at Diddy being that low. Lower than Fox...who's lower than Samus and Lucario, wut?

Monkey Flip and Rocket Barrel in conjunction go much farther than Fox's Rising Fair to Firefox or Illusion, and if you DI up and to the corner far, you can add in a Peanut Gun in the beginning for extra distance, like Marth's sheildbraker.

As long as you don't do a kick during the Monkey Flip, you can Rocket Barrel right after it.

Plus, Fox is more easily punished by his recovery than Diddy. If Fox tries to illusion for the ledge (which is usually predictable) you can edgehog, and if he illusions off the stage, you can attack them in their landing lag. His Rising Fair and Firefox are pretty good, but you can only use Rising Fair if you have your double-jump, so you can gimp him out of that recovery, and Firefox is usually easily edgehogged.

But I'd imagine both recoveries are better than Samus's and Lucario's. What are you basing the recoveries on. Just distance? Or that in conjunction with gimpability, punishability, readability, reliance, etc.?

 

[woody72691]

i really cant stand the ICs, u take one out and u still got another, and if u hit the other one, they dont take damage. i'm like WTF??

 

[Brinzy]

The other takes damage. You just can't see it.

 

[eboz74]

very accurate lol would be 100% if lucas was moved up

 

[eboz74]

What the heck at Diddy being that low. Lower than Fox...who's lower than Samus and Lucario, wut?

Monkey Flip and Rocket Barrel in conjunction go much farther than Fox's Rising Fair to Firefox or Illusion, and if you DI up and to the corner far, you can add in a Peanut Gun in the beginning for extra distance, like Marth's sheildbraker.

As long as you don't do a kick during the Monkey Flip, you can Rocket Barrel right after it.

Plus, Fox is more easily punished by his recovery than Diddy. If Fox tries to illusion for the ledge (which is usually predictable) you can edgehog, and if he illusions off the stage, you can attack them in their landing lag. His Rising Fair and Firefox are pretty good, but you can only use Rising Fair if you have your double-jump, so you can gimp him out of that recovery, and Firefox is usually easily edgehogged.

But I'd imagine both recoveries are better than Samus's and Lucario's. What are you basing the recoveries on. Just distance? Or that in conjunction with gimpability, punishability, readability, reliance, etc.?

diddy should be a lot higher though

 

[B!squick]

List is garbage. TC is a scrub for explaining nothing. Please let this thread die.

 

[Brinzy]

The thread doesn't need to die because of the original poster, because he didn't shape this list. No, what needs to die is the mass of morons running into this thread, crying over something, and then try to write something off as "OMG THIS IS GARBAGE" instead of explaining why someone should move up or down or why they disagree with most of the list. The people posting in this thread shaped the list, and you need to realize that this is a TIER LIST of RECOVERIES, something that is going to be hotly debated and very opinionated. Stop blaming the person who used to edit this thing and stop posting nonsensical bull****.

 

[Greasy]

Lower Pit, it may go far, but if he's touched during it it stops.

 

[.Marik]

Move Kirby up to where Jigglypuff is.

And Bowser is too low.

 

[B!squick]

The thread doesn't need to die because of the original poster, because he didn't shape this list. No, what needs to die is the mass of morons running into this thread, crying over something, and then try to write something off as "OMG THIS IS GARBAGE" instead of explaining why someone should move up or down or why they disagree with most of the list. The people posting in this thread shaped the list, and you need to realize that this is a TIER LIST of RECOVERIES, something that is going to be hotly debated and very opinionated. Stop blaming the person who used to edit this thing and stop posting nonsensical bull****.

I supported my opinion as to why Bowser should be higher with many posts several pages ago and the list hasn't changed since 12/24/08. TC is still a scrub for not explaining how he came to his conclusions. List is still garbage. My posts start here if you're curious: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209374&page=24

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Someone active needs to make a tier list for Recoverys. <-<