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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

MacD

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here's a weird question but directed more so at vanz/kirby kazy/doh and or other people who have expierence and have placed well in tourney

When i'm playing noobs for the first time, i might 2 stock them or 3 stock high percent (assumign they are semi competent but still very nooby). Then next round, i can 3-4 stock a lot of them, but i can't consciously point out what they are doing wrong or what i'm doing better. As I play better people for the first time, the same type of stuff happens.

A long time ago I mm a guy (new to melee but had been playing 64 and training for a little while with his area) and got 3 stocked, barely won on mute city, then 3 stocked him on his counterpick. I couldn't for the life of me tell you how i adapted to his style, but I obvioiusly did somehow.

Now I forget if I asked this in this thread or somewhere so bare with me, but does it really matter i don't see what i'm doing as long as i adapt? Like I've never really been good at reading rolls, and most of my tech reads are based off reaction or what 90% of other people do, but idk if that's a bad thing.

I'm trying to be more conscious about reading people and their styles but i doubt it's going anywhere fast. I guess is this something I should focas on harder, just let it slowly start to build, or say screw it to.

Just curious cuase you have the m2k way and the mango way. I've always felt more like an m2k where i do stuff based on situations and what my opponent does, as opposed to being like mango and reading people. I guess when it comes to mango's thing about checkers and chess, I'm definately a checkers players.

again sorry if i asked already but it's something i've thought a lot about recently
 

Samochan

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I believe it's not as much about adapting (unless you consciously adapt really and punish mistakes with prediction), but more about your psychological need to win. It really drives you to do better than you normally would, which is why you usually do better on tourneys than casuals. Your mind in tournaments can really boost you or **** you up, depending who you're up against and what your confidence level is (lol). Usually against noobs I subconsciously seem to sandbag a bit, I can't seemingly muster myself to play superawesome, while the better the player, the better my performance seemingly unless that layer really effs my playstyle or something.
 

crismas

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Hm, I have a question...

In Peach dittos, what would out prioritize her nair? Or rather, what would be the best option when you have someone approaching with nair? I'm thinking just dair but idk if there are some other suggestions.
 

Samochan

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Hm, I have a question...

In Peach dittos, what would out prioritize her nair? Or rather, what would be the best option when you have someone approaching with nair? I'm thinking just dair but idk if there are some other suggestions.
Nair faster or shield the approach, then do something outta shield like roll when they're like slap and dsmash =) Nair doesn't have as much shieldstun as fair does, so if their fc goes awry like too high, you should be able to get to safety or punish if you time it right.

At low%, you can also cc into dsmash or things. And never forget the awesome wd back/dash dance into things like dtilt or dash attack. :3

But really, you can't exacly outprioritise peach's nair, cept with projectile ofc when you hit after their initial hit (so it won't get blocked). It comes out in 3 frames. But what you can do is outspace/block it and punish. :3

If they approach a bit higher than quick fc nair norm, well timed fc uair, ftilt or upsmash (or even uptilt) should get em.

Fsmash is too good though imo, the leanback is very nice in this matchup and the range in two attacks very good, plus disjointed. :3
 

Rain(ame)

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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
VaNz is definitely the person to ask for that...everytime I think I've got the right idea, he screws me over.
VaNz I want:
2 $0.50 MM with you. Peach Dittos at Pound.
Then I want:
$1 MM Zelda vs. Peach.


You down for it?

Edit: Samo has experience against Armada, xD.
 

Samochan

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Edit: Samo has experience against Armada, xD.
I have experience against zounds of peaches, though I don't usually play vs peach (I used to play though, ages ago). Armada is one of them yes. :p Imo, best way to kill peach fairing is doing a quick nair/rising nair yourself at fair height and then float canceling it, or fsmashing. <3

I guess bair could outprioritise nair... but bair comes out 3 frames later than nair and would prolly just clash, so I don't recommend it.

Oh and right, dash attack when timed right should take out peach nairing, cause ground moves > aerial moves in priority (same reason why dash attack > fox nair when it leaves the ground).
 

KirbyKaze

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I usually don't recommend this, but you're a fast learner. So I'm gonna say just go watch vids. Based on what I THINK I know about your playstyle, Vidjo's early Peach might be best for you. Here are some to get you started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFj62RpRvXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joetKLv_oGc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOAz0msAJeQ

Another Idea would be to train with Vwins more. I've learned alot of characters (Notably Young Link + Sheik) just by playing good ones (Jash + Grill)
I love Vidjo. One of my favourite Peaches ever. I love how good his Fairs are. I want to have Fairs that good someday.

ty Vanz.

Please kill my Peach at Pound in friendlies after I play Sheik vs your characters so I may learn Peach and become good with her ^.^

MacD I will reply to your post later because it's a hard set of questions.
 

crismas

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Yeah I figured nair wasn't something to exactly out prioritize but I could use some more knowledge on Peach dittos as when I play, if the other Peach is faster I sometimes don't know my options and nair can be a bump in the road lol.

Thanks Samo :)
 

lloDownedu74

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macd, I've seen that happen sometimes. I think it's just mind games and smartness. Once you learn how your opponent plays, you subconsciously "counter" them. A while ago, I played a Marth player (I think it was KM) in friendlies, and in the first match, I was doing pretty well. I had killed him in the first stock early, and was winning, but then he proceeded to two stock me.... I don't know how, but he just played smarter than me... I don;t know exactly how it works, but once you learn your opponent, it becomes 10x easier to beat them
 

MacD

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yea, i just think it's weird that i can't point out a single thing i learned you know

like oh he rolls under pressure or always jumps in this situation or always dsmashes on platforms ahahaa

and since i'm full of questions, smash DIing foxes stuff do you

a. try and time it
b. spam and it works or
c. try and do it and prey but really don't know what you're doing and die lots but sometimes get out

... guess which one i am, i have trouble getting my left hand to rotate the control stick fast in half circles
 

ConnorTheKid

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McCain, I think you just do the right things at the right time. You probably just adjust without knowing it. I think being able to adjust consciously is what separates the good from the great.

Also, a new Peach technique: the DADS [Dash Attack Dsmash courtesy of MacD]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olOvSWcIaJA#t=2m56s

this is playing dumb at it's finest.
 

Rosedemon

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So uh....

Alan, MacD, Xelic, and DoH.

ALL IN THE SAME ROOM AT POUND 4?!?!!?!

Can you say....FABULOUS!
 

GSUB

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McCain, I think you just do the right things at the right time. You probably just adjust without knowing it. I think being able to adjust consciously is what separates the good from the great.

Also, a new Peach technique: the DADS [Dash Attack Dsmash courtesy of MacD]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olOvSWcIaJA#t=2m56s

this is playing dumb at it's finest.
Peach <3

Playing my peach against your fox was really fun, I could tell you weren't trying, but it was still fun :)

dtilt -> upsmash <333
 

MacD

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can you say full room??

idk when you ask of when i invited you (ie niether happened) but if hugo and larry bail or you guys really wanna squish be my guest

and dam it connnor, i wanna be one of the best... stupid think attack :/

oh and that whole stock looks like me but in pink, the random upsmash, the stupid platform getting in the way of that nair, the billions upon billions of dash attacks
 

The Irish Mafia

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MacD I first look for tech patterns, then DI, then jump timing, then roll situations. Tech patterns are the easiest thing to follow up on so I find them first

I was wondering, in peach dittos, when someone's trying to do midheight float-> ff fair, can I beat that with utilt? I've been using the attack more and it's just really useful.
 

Quaz

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Mafia I DO hear that in dittos peach's reverse utilt will beat a floating dair for some odd reason. Lol utilt is such a crazy weird move. it seems risky to use though.
 

Rain(ame)

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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
Quaz, it DOES beat it out. I just forget to do it half the time. Sometimes I just CC Upsmash as well. That's only at low %. Peach Dittos are so much fun, xD. Well...technical Peach ditos.

VaNz and Crismas are mad fun to ditto. Shakugan...well...sometimes he is...other times he's not. It was hilarious when I beat him on his own favorite cp, Japes. 3-stocked =p.
 

Rosedemon

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can you say full room??

idk when you ask of when i invited you (ie niether happened) but if hugo and larry bail or you guys really wanna squish be my guest

and dam it connnor, i wanna be one of the best... stupid think attack :/

oh and that whole stock looks like me but in pink, the random upsmash, the stupid platform getting in the way of that nair, the billions upon billions of dash attacks
I dont wanna be in your room silly.

Im just sayin, we're all gonna be together, and some unfortunate soul at the tournament is gonna get the look.
 

thesage

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There needs to be a place where all the Peach mains can meet up and hang and teach each other things at Pound 4.
 

TheGeneral

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I might go to Pound 4. I got my ticket, but I lack housing for Friday. I'd really like to meat some more Peach mains. I met the general yesterday, but we didn't talk that much cuz I had a nub tournament to win =DDDDDDD.
Haha, despite that tournament taking way too long, it was fun. Good job on the come from behind victory.

I wish I could go to pound 4. I also wish that I could beat falcon more consistently without having to try so hard. :(

Hopefully when epsilon uploads his match footage I'll have some more recent vids to show everyone.
 

thesage

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General he's uploaded ur match vs. krnred...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JyOQcvkQXs

You're pretty good. If I remember correctly you almost sent Rico to loser's and I was scared cuz I don't like Peach dittos cuz I have very little experience in them. This must be rectified at Pound lol.

Just cg Falcon and spam bair and don't get hit. Act like every hit = death.
 

TheGeneral

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I'm not sure who Rico is, but if it was the guy that counter picked young link on me, then yeah. I would have much rather peach dittoed him. That's what I get for losing the first match, though.

edit: oh, nm, he was the really good cf main. Yeah, I wish I could have that match back. But he was too legit.
 

DoH

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Our room is going to explode with glitter.

Also I'm a redhead now so if we get a brunette we'll have one of every color.
 

Quaz

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crismas the only person I know of in your pool is 18 spikes who is a very decent doc. He beats my peach... al ot actually

I suck though, so don't get disconfident just yet.
 

Cia

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Crismas *****. She holds her own against me in dittos (Which is quit a feat :laugh:) I predict she'll get first seed in her pool.

and on a different note, i don't think i'm making it out :( :(

AND LMFAOOOOOO @ DADS
<33333 MacD
 

Rain(ame)

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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
I got Lucky, Pakman, and The Lake. Yaaaaay.


VaNz...how the HECK do I fight Luigi?

For Lucky, I'm gonna Pray.
For TheLake...well I've got some Zelda experience. I know that's a match-up Zelda players like. However...when I did face a Zelda in tournament I was able to adapt. Any advice there?
 

Rain(ame)

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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
My sheik sucks...

lay off the turnips, don't get too close, remember she's floaty, too. Watch out for the muva effing toe. Watch out for empty short hops. (God I need to remember that one) If you get grabbed...something's wrong.
 

thesage

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Any Shiek advice?

Is it just a spacing battle, where both characters try to outcamp the other?
 

Rain(ame)

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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
Get her off the edge and dsmash? xD I remember someone adviced that before. Sheik is a tough as balls match up for Peach. Especially against someone like VaNz or Tec0 who know Peach quite well. She's faster, and also has a good Dsmash.

As you said, watch your spacing....don't rush, but don't let her take control either. Also remember that she can recover abnormally far on a vertical aspect. So don't get greedy. *shudders and remembers the gimp that Tec0 did at 16%* Her Uair kills floaties, so be wary of that. Use turnips wisely.

I think someone else can be more indepth than me.

Edit: It just hit me. How the heck do I fight Yoshi for that matter!?
 
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