Vers. 1.6.0 Patch Notes

[KenMeister]

Just realized we didn't have a forum for this up until now for whatever reason. Go ahead and post your findings here.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I have yet to confirm these change but these are the rumors I've heard so far:

- Fair does 17% and knockback increased
- Back throw knockback increased
- Usmash does horizontal knockback and kills earlier(?)
- Someone said his knockback was increased on a lot of moves but I don't trust it yet

 

[MopedOfJustice]

- Back throw knockback increased

That would be great. It was much too weak before. Now all we need is a recovery buff

 

[LuCypha X]

I have yet to confirm these change but these are the rumors I've heard so far:

- Fair does 17% and knockback increased <- YES
- Back throw knockback increased <- NOPE
- Usmash does horizontal knockback <- YES and kills earlier(?) <- NOPE
- Someone said his knockback was increased on a lot of moves but I don't trust it yet <- NOPE

Tested it: Mario / FD(mid) / no DI.

 

[KenMeister]

Well, at least fair was buffed. That was one buff I was actually wanting. haha
17% though, isn't that as strong as Ganon's fair now?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Damn I was hoping for more doc buffs.... I also heard unconfirmed:
- Down B less landing lag
- First jump is higher

 

[hey_there]

Fair now does 16.8 at least. After 10 consecutive hits with the sweet spot, Bowser (test subject) was at 168%.

 

[KenMeister]

Well, one thing I can confirm is that down-smash no longer sends opponents in a semi-spike-ish angle, it's more of an upwards diagonal angle...





...That kinda pisses me off.

 

[Runic_SSB]

Someone said his knockback was increased on a lot of moves but I don't trust it yet

That was me, and I made a pretty amateur mistake; I did not label the console I was using in my notes, so I accidentally compared my 3DS notes to the new Wii U version, and got drastically varied results because of it. I just found the other set of notes I had, and the kill percents for everything but Fair were (almost) identical to the ones I got in the new Wii U version (almost because I rounded to 5 last time). Sorry for wasting your time.

 

[Xinc]

Well, one thing I can confirm is that down-smash no longer sends opponents in a semi-spike-ish angle, it's more of an upwards diagonal angle...





...That kinda pisses me off.

First hit or second hit?

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Well, one thing I can confirm is that down-smash no longer sends opponents in a semi-spike-ish angle, it's more of an upwards diagonal angle...





...That kinda pisses me off.

I didn't notice this, I'll have to test it out. If true, I'm disappointed as well. I'm not sure what they had in mind while making changes to Doc, but I feel they kind of missed the mark. They changed things that didn't need to be changed while leaving things that should have been looked at. I haven't had time to really test him out, so I may change my opinion after that. But from what I've tested and been reading, I'm a little baffled (not just about Doc, but the entire "balancing" patch).

Please, Sakurai, hire a balancing team for the next Smash and listen to input from competitive players. The game can be balanced, competitive and still fun for anyone.

 

[KenMeister]

First hit or second hit?

I think it was the first hit, I'm not too sure. Another thing I can confirm is that Doc Tornado went from doing around 9% to 8% damage, which is stupid considering we were just talking about how that move needed to be buffed. Bair also feels a bit stronger, KB-wise, but don't quote me on that. This whole patch in general has already put me in a bad mood today. They somehow managed to make characters like Samus and Link worse in this patch, which absolutely baffles me.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I think it was the first hit, I'm not too sure. Another thing I can confirm is that Doc Tornado went from doing around 9% to 8% damage, which is stupid considering we were just talking about how that move needed to be buffed. Bair also feels a bit stronger, KB-wise, but don't quote me on that. This whole patch in general has already put me in a bad mood today. They somehow managed to make characters like Samus and Link worse in this patch, which absolutely baffles me.

Maybe they can fix any mistakes when Lucas is released (doubtful, I know, but you never know). The fact that Yoshi seemingly had nothing changed is beyond me. The game is so far from being balanced, it's laughable. I still love it and will figure out a way to win, but seriously, if Sakurai listened to competitive Smash players, he'd realize it wouldn't be that difficult to make the game mostly balanced. Instead, I believe they just randomly make changes with no actual rationale behind it.

 

[KenMeister]

Somehow, even with Diddy's nerf, I feel like this game is even more unbalanced than before. Link just went from mid to trash tier just from one major nerf alone, for example.

 

[BasedGamerAce]

I think it was the first hit, I'm not too sure. Another thing I can confirm is that Doc Tornado went from doing around 9% to 8% damage, which is stupid considering we were just talking about how that move needed to be buffed. Bair also feels a bit stronger, KB-wise, but don't quote me on that. This whole patch in general has already put me in a bad mood today. They somehow managed to make characters like Samus and Link worse in this patch, which absolutely baffles me.

I've heard that doc Tornado less landing lag (and maybe end lag). I also noticed this when testing on 3ds version. This may explain the slightly lower damage.

 

[Deleted member]

I can confirm Fair does 16.8%, as 5 sweetspotted Slam Jams do 84% total.

 

[Roostertone]

I am fairly certain the sourspot towards the end of Doc's fair has been removed, and now hits just as hard as the sweetspot. The sourspot on the very first frame of the attack seems to still be there, but that means the sweetspot lasts for ~60% longer.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Was the Tornado's lift changed? When I didn't hit anyone, it felt more generous than I remembered

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Was the Tornado's lift changed? When I didn't hit anyone, it felt more generous than I remembered

That's what I thought, too. A lot of people are saying it's not different, but it definitely feels like it either has more lift, or it's just easier to move with now.

I only play as Doc and he feels different in many ways, but it could still just be a placebo effect. Either way, I didn't have any issues playing as Doc today (other than getting used to the new upSmash mechanics).

 

[Zegend]

Is the change to upsmash for better or worse, Doc mains?

 

[Dobbston]

SH Bair still whiffs on very short characters like Kirby.

Is the change to upsmash for better or worse, Doc mains?

Unless there's a bunch of new combos you can do out of Usmash now, it seems like a nerf.


Edit: Reverse Usmash to Jab combo (24 dmg) combos on Fox at 29 percent now.

Edit2: Just got reverse Usmash to Up B (29 dmg) to combo on Fox at 29 percent.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Is the change to upsmash for better or worse, Doc mains?

I guess it really depends. I'm not sure if it's stronger or has more KB. I can still chain 2-3 together occasionally, depending on the opponent. Also, if you're facing the right direction, it can KO offstage instead of upward. Overall, I wouldn't necessarily call it a nerf, just a different mechanic than we're used to. It'll take a little time getting familiar with it, but so far, it hasn't caused me much problems (KOed a Mewtwo at the edge of the stage at around 70%).

 

[KenMeister]

I guess it really depends. I'm not sure if it's stronger or has more KB. I can still chain 2-3 together occasionally, depending on the opponent. Also, if you're facing the right direction, it can KO offstage instead of upward. Overall, I wouldn't necessarily call it a nerf, just a different mechanic than we're used to. It'll take a little time getting familiar with it, but so far, it hasn't caused me much problems (KOed a Mewtwo at the edge of the stage at around 70%).

I don't think Mewtwo would be a good example to prove that with, because honestly there's two factors that need to be weighed in:

- Mewtwo is one of the lightest characters in the game
- Did he DI correctly?

I'm guessing it's a neutral change, it just depends where you're at on the stage I guess. I mostly use Upsmash to read ledge get-ups anyway (it's especially good vs. the space animals' sideB) , so this'll probably be beneficial to me.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I don't think Mewtwo would be a good example to prove that with, because honestly there's two factors that need to be weighed in:

- Mewtwo is one of the lightest characters in the game
- Did he DI correctly?

I'm guessing it's a neutral change, it just depends where you're at on the stage I guess. I mostly use Upsmash to read ledge get-ups anyway (it's especially good vs. the space animals' sideB) , so this'll probably be beneficial to me.

I know, I'm just saying that because it now hits somewhat horizontally, I most likely got the KO in that instance when I'm not sure hitting him vertically would have done it. Basically, it's just something different to keep in mind while fighting rather than being beneficial or not. Just depends on the circumstance, I guess.

 

[Deleted member]

Is the change to upsmash for better or worse, Doc mains?

I play Dr. Mario from time to time, and I feel like the only thing he gained from this patch was the stronger F-air. The new up smash isn't that good compared to the old one. It's situational, and I've yet to find anything it can combo into. Plus it's harder to kill with now.

 

[Doctor_Mario]

I just tried the down throw + up air combo, down throw seems to have a bit of more ending lag to me.

Also, tornado is giving the same damage output.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Docter mario has so much trouble killing now because of his new up smash
That nerf was not nessacery in anyway whatsoever
I don't care what buffs he got, if I can't kill, I can't win.

 

[Gidy]

I am slowly realizing that his new Usmash is good for killing on the sides of the the stage after getting some Usmash reads from the ledge. It also is good for follow ups, similar like in melee. Guys, Usmash may have gottten a lose as a KO option from the top but it can put people off stage, possibly kill better horizontally, and can put people in bad positions for follow ups.

Considering Doc had a weaker Usmash then the other Mario Bros. I think this differentiates his and adds more applications to it. I consider this as a buff.

 

[hey_there]

I agree. I actually really like the new usmash angle a lot. The old usmash took forever to kill anyway, and this new angle really messes with DI.

 

[Aurora2698]

I am fairly certain the sourspot towards the end of Doc's fair has been removed, and now hits just as hard as the sweetspot. The sourspot on the very first frame of the attack seems to still be there, but that means the sweetspot lasts for ~60% longer.

Unfortunately, this isn't true . Just tested it in Training: the very end of the attack still deals a meagre 10%.

 

[UberMadman]

Not to be that guy, but the title says version 1.6.0 patch notes. I think you mean 1.0.6.

 

[BasedGamerAce]

Now that I've gotten used to the new up-smash, I don't mind it. I would use fsmash or fair to kill more often anyways. If opponents don't know about this change, this up-smash could be used as a surprise K.O, or we could use it at low %'s to follow-up into up-special, or jab combo anyways. So it was an unnecessary change, but a change I don't mind.

 

[MonkeyArms]

I am slowly realizing that his new Usmash is good for killing on the sides of the the stage after getting some Usmash reads from the ledge. It also is good for follow ups, similar like in melee. Guys, Usmash may have gottten a lose as a KO option from the top but it can put people off stage, possibly kill better horizontally, and can put people in bad positions for follow ups.

Considering Doc had a weaker Usmash then the other Mario Bros. I think this differentiates his and adds more applications to it. I consider this as a buff.

I would consider calling it a "buff" if doc had an off the top kill move before 150%

 

[Gidy]

I would consider calling it a "buff" if doc had an off the top kill move before 150%

It never killed well before in the first place. I never used USmash to kill.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

It never killed well before in the first place. I never used USmash to kill.

Same here, but I did get a fair amount of kills with upSmash. Now, I'd say it's about even, but it is situational. I've killed opponents much quicker on near the sides, but only if I was facing the proper direction. Yesterday, the new upSmash hurt me in a match with a DeDeDe. He was at 130% and I read his get up properly. When I hit him with upSmash, it sent him to the other side of the stage, thus not killing him. If he had been sent to the side we were on..... goodbye. I even believe there's a chance he would have been KOed had he been sent upward, but maybe not. Either way, I'm really enjoying whatever they've done with Doc. I swear, he really feel a bit quicker and I get better (or, at least) easier movement on the Tornado. If it's a placebo affect, I don't care.

 

[NerdThomas3]

I have yet to confirm these change but these are the rumors I've heard so far:

- Fair does 17% and knockback increased
- Back throw knockback increased
- Usmash does horizontal knockback and kills earlier(?)
- Someone said his knockback was increased on a lot of moves but I don't trust it yet

F-Air knockback has indeed increased.
I didn't see a difference in knockback for B-Throw.
U-Smash does have horizontal knockback, but doesn't seem to kill earlier.
All but his Nair, Uair, Dair, jabs and D-tilt have knockback.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I am super disappointed the custom sets down have 2311 and 2111 for doc. I want my fast pills and regular tornado that got buffed.

 

[Kisatamura]

So essentially the patch brought these confirmed changes to Doc:

-Fair getting a slight damage increase so that it's rounded to 17% more often. Also, it may be just me, but it's easier to hit with the sweet spot now.
-Tornado dealing now 9% or being more easily rounded to that percent, and having less end lag. I really don't notice the landing lag however
-USmash's angle now sends the opponent at a more diagonal angle.

I think the biggest changes here are Doc's fair being easier to sweet spot, and the new USmash trajectories. Another important thing is that this move becomes a fast attack to send opponents near the edge if Doc is inbetween the edge and opponent due to the attack sending opponents behind Doc. The move also doesn't flip the opponent, resulting in opponents being sent flying behind Doc without turning! This is good against Ganon and other characters who need to turn around in the air to recover.

USmash's new angle at low percents allows some new setups, like USmash into Tornado

 

[waterfall6464]

Ever since the patch I've felt that f-smash seems to have slightly longer range than before. It might just be placebo or something, but I wonder if anybody else have noticed it?

 

[KeeblerGuy]

I tested this and unfortunately his Up B got nerfed. The sweet spot range got reduced. A LOT. In fact, I sometimes don't even get the sweet spot during the opening frames, I just get the sourspot. This never happened to me in the prior patch. I'm actually surprised no one has mentioned this yet because this is the best move Doc has.

I hate the new USmash. With the old one on Medium to Heavy characters, you could string two USmashes together from a DThrow based on an airdodge read then finish off the string with a DSmash. That's ~40%. On the new one, the trajectory is literal **** and stringing together anything doesn't compare to it, also it's harder to do. The old one could kill off the top of maps very easily and now it can't.

The only buffs I've noticed is his Dair and Fair. Dair in general is faster and has a lot less ending lag when landing. % DMG is the same. Fair does more DMG, but I rarely ever used it anyways as it's too risky and he's not fast enough to punish with it. Down B does not have shorter landing lag. He does not jump higher and does not run faster.

Until he gets changed in the next patch, I think it's safe to drop him currently. Two moves that were, to me, the things that held him together got hit really hard. I guess I'll wait for my PM Main to come back in June then we'll see what happens. It was fun being able to play Doc in two tournaments, especially since I won 3 sets at each one. I made new friends playing him and such, but his legacy is over. Thanks Sakurai for nerfing an already mediocre character. Sorry for the negativity fellow Doc players, I really didn't want it to come to this.