Volleying: A New Type of Game (Updated with Video Examples: Special Guest Darrell)

[Brightside6382]

I dont think anyone has tried this game im talking about

Ill try to get a sample vid

Because it's stupid to begin with. While we're at it how about we just eliminate edge guards in general because that obviously frustrates players in friendlies to.

 

[Ballistics]

ok ok ok wait hold on....

alright, so i see where you're coming from. there are many times when you shouldn't be doing things too seriously. like when i play a friendly match with someone and we're both laughing and having a good time, i just find it plain disrespectful if... say i were falco, and i just do something like Fthrow someone of the edge -> forward smash their double jump -> spike them. that's just ********, and it doesn't make it fun for my opponent, or if he were to do the same against me, i'd just be like... man, it's just not fun playing against you

instead, when i play friendlies with someone, i always try to do a bunch of different things to make everything more fun. for instance... if i was pikachu on FD, and my opponent was fox, i wouldn't just chainthrow them to death, or just Uthrow -> Usmash all the time, i'd try to do something like Uthrow -> Dsmash -> tech chase into a Dtilt -> run behind them and pivot grab, etc etc

or... let's say i'm grabbing the edge against a falco, i know that i could just roll back on the edge and they'll die, but instead i'd try something like ledgehop Uair and land on the stage, turn around, and shorthop Tailspike him, then dropzone Dair his Up-b

just a bunch of random stuff that you probably wouldn't do in a tournament match. this just makes things a lot more enjoyable and fun for everybody. the opponent should react in the same way, and just do a bunch of silly stuff, you know what i mean?

but i don't think you should have rules, such as "no killing your opponent downwards". there shouldn't be "rules" in friendlies, but there are many things that can take away respect from a player

In my position as a pikachu main, no killing downwards would be just stupid, because then that would take away tailspiking, which is a huge part of pika's game

friendlies should just be about doing fun and new things. for instance...

as falco, you could just jump out and Dair your opponent, then double jump -> up-b back onto the stage

but in a friendly, for things to be more fun, you should probably do something like jump out, Dair your opponent, then Dair him a second time for a Suicide kill

ok so maybe that wasn't the best example, but...

basically, there are times when you should play seriously, and there are times when you should just be silly and stuff

if you're at a tourney with a bunch of people that you might not ever see again for a long time, i feel that most "friendlies" you play with someone else, you should probably treat it as a tournament match. when you play with new people, it's generally a test of skill. you don't practice so much just to show someone how silly you can be. you should show someone new the level of skill you have, so both of you have an understanding of who might be the better player. i'm not saying that you should camp the crap out of someone that you just meet in a friendly, but i'm also not saying that you should sandbag to an extreme. i feel that you should just try hard enough to get an understanding of each other's skill

however, if you're playing someone for a long period of time... i feel that you should start out with seriouslies, then gradually continue on to being just friendlies

there are times, however, where you can play someone for a long period of time and have the entire time be serious matches.



alright, in short... don't set restrictions on what a friendly should or should not be. if you don't like playing with the person that you're playing with, i recommend to find another person to smash with. in your situation, if someone thinks that they're better than you, show them that they're not if that's what you truely think. maybe challenge them in a money match. or if you want to play a serious match, just tell them. tell them to try their hardest for a few matches and you'll do the same for a test of skill. then after you guys decide who's better, continue on to friendlies

Very interesting, these little things you add to the match to make it fun is exactly what im doing by not killing down, it makes me play differently and is more fun. But don't worry so much about it as a rule more than a guideline to play, if you die down it doesn't really matter but i find its more fun to build and damage and kill. Instead of tail spikes, use neutral airs and it will probably take an extra 30 seconds to kill them to the side or up.

 

[JPOBS]

i dont really like intentional sandbagging as i find it detrimental to my overall game.

so instead, in seirouslies i only play fox and falco and try to win every match/

And in friendlies, i play falcon, sheik, or whoever else and then if i win good but i dont expect to win with my mediocre secondaries which wills me to doing stupid/inventive combos.

 

[pockyD]

everyone enjoys the game in different ways

if the person you're playing with is making it unfun for you, go find someone else - you shouldn't whine about their fun just because it doesn't coincide with yours

 

[Siglemic]

sorry but this sounds dumb

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

No me gusta

 

[AXE 09]

Very interesting, these little things you add to the match to make it fun is exactly what im doing by not killing down, it makes me play differently and is more fun. But don't worry so much about it as a rule more than a guideline to play, if you die down it doesn't really matter but i find its more fun to build and damage and kill. Instead of tail spikes, use neutral airs and it will probably take an extra 30 seconds to kill them to the side or up.

it might not really be "fun" to the other person if (in fox/falco's case) you just keep Bairing them off the stage. if someone just kept hitting me off the stage and stalling the match like that, i'd just get frustrated -_-

when Vman and i do friendlies, each match lasts about a minute and a half, and they're fun as heck

basically... try to think about what's fun for the other opponent. basically the golden rule: treat others the way you wanna be treated. what's fun for you might not be fun for others. for instance.... chaingrabbing spacies/falcon with pikachu on FD is fun as heck for me, but whenever i do it in friendlies, the people who i do it on hate it, so i just don't CG in friendlies anymore because it takes the fun out of the matches

 

[Smilez]

Yea Derek. I know where you're coming from but friendlies is time for practicing. Meaning practicing new techniques that can include gimping or having ur opponent die at the bottom. Ledgehogging I can understand but if you dont practice gimping in friendlies how do u expect to get a gimp in tournament when ur opponent is concentrating more.

LMAO! You basically told me to stop gimping when we played yesterday b/c we were playing "Friendlies" and I come online today find this quote...your such a hippo Eli. "This is a friendly why are yo shine spiking me?" lol. To think I almost considered suspending my **** to make you feel better....almost.

 

[Trikrome]

Ur gay. and thats all i have to say.

 

[Ballistics]

LOL eli you just got pwned, play my game with dwayne so you don't get frustrated hypocrite

it might not really be "fun" to the other person if (in fox/falco's case) you just keep Bairing them off the stage. if someone just kept hitting me off the stage and stalling the match like that, i'd just get frustrated -_-

when Vman and i do friendlies, each match lasts about a minute and a half, and they're fun as heck

basically... try to think about what's fun for the other opponent. basically the golden rule: treat others the way you wanna be treated. what's fun for you might not be fun for others. for instance.... chaingrabbing spacies/falcon with pikachu on FD is fun as heck for me, but whenever i do it in friendlies, the people who i do it on hate it, so i just don't CG in friendlies anymore because it takes the fun out of the matches

Hmm I would love to keep getting back aired, because it gives you a reason to try to recover. And they are bound to mess up too so it gives you a chance to survive, whereas if you just got edgehogged you might as well not even do your up b.

 

[luno]

MY TAKE ON THIS:

don't do any bull.**** like changing your game, just play to win as always but play 2-stock games.

it's a lot more fun, there's a lot less pressure, and if you lose, oh well, next round. i always play 2-stock games for friendlies, it's fun and there's no pressure involved since the games are so short.

 

[Roneblaster]

listen to axe, he beat PP in falco dittoes.

(and his posts have made the most sense out of any so far)

 

[dudutsai]

The main reason I play friendlies is:

1) So I can judge the difference in skill level between me and my opponent
2) To improve my game

Obviously you can play for fun, but when you travel for a tournament, most people expect something out of the games they play. If my opponent started doing this to me and not going all out I would be disappointed in myself and my opponent because it would feel like sandbagging.
I really don't see any reason not to play all out all the time. If you lose, it's nobody's fault but your own.

 

[Mogwai]

rofl, this idea is TERRIBLE.

you don't like edgeguarding, play a game without edges. Edgeguarding is a crucial part of not just Melee, but all Smash games. only scrubs get upset about getting gimped in friendlies, the rest of us laugh it off cause smash is a silly awesome game. only scrubs brag about winning in friendlies, and only scrubs get upset when someone else starts talking about what happened vs. them in friendlies. and I mean, ****, camping projectiles or the ledge is way more annoying than proactive gimping, why not target those tactics with your rules? I mean, that'd still be stupid and I'd still say you should just play the **** game, but I'm just trying to say it's less stupid than encouraging people to edgeguard poorly and not finish death combos .

 

[Ballistics]

Mogwai this game promotes edgeguarding just not edgehogging. If anything it increases your edgeguarding skills because you have to edgeguard them until they are dead to the side.

 

[Mogwai]

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EDGEHOGGING IS A GOOD TECHNIQUE FOR EDGEGUARDING. LEARNING TO NOT USE IT IS REINFORCING BAD HABITS THAT ALLOW DEAD OPPONENTS TO LIVE.

 

[Ballistics]

I disagree i think youre overreacting try ze game

 

[Incronaut]

wow over the past couple days ive ran into AXE's posts and i have to say he is an awesome person...

anyway, i agree with mogwai, not doing something in friendlies reinforces bad habits in real play..

if youre playing a friendly and not being serious, thats why people play aggressive and dont camp.. i mean even doing THAT has messed up my laser game haha

but overall i really like that youre throwing out new ideas there. for me personally it looks a little too complicated nor am i good enough to be holding back...

good luck with your game though :D

 

[Ballistics]

Thanks incronaut, I've decided to name this game volleying because a volley in a number of games is when a ball is received and delivered without touching the ground. And its usually casual.

-lol wikipedia for the win

 

[AXE 09]

wow over the past couple days ive ran into AXE's posts and i have to say he is an awesome person...

*smiles really big* =D

 

[Dark Hart]

I just read the OP, and all I have to say is, that's what you call friendlies

 

[Signia]

No, the edgeguarder is not "bound to mess up"... and if you get baired/dtilted/whatever repeatedly and you have to keep upBing into them that would get boring fast, and why would they mess up?

No, this will not improve your edgeguarding skills... no killing off the bottom? That's like trying to keep them alive, the complete opposite of what you're trying to do.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

TBQH this is ********. I save my opponents in friendlies because I'm a nice guy / bored, not because some stupid rule is forcing me to.

 

[Ballistics]

TBQH this is ********. I save my opponents in friendlies because I'm a nice guy / bored, not because some stupid rule is forcing me to.

But we agree that saving is neat? We are ze same

No, the edgeguarder is not "bound to mess up"... and if you get baired/dtilted/whatever repeatedly and you have to keep upBing into them that would get boring fast, and why would they mess up?

No, this will not improve your edgeguarding skills... no killing off the bottom? That's like trying to keep them alive, the complete opposite of what you're trying to do.

You only want to save them to prevent them from dying down, you are stilling trying to kill them as fast as possible though, just off the sides or the top. Its just a different way to play the game

I just read the OP, and all I have to say is, that's what you call friendlies

Yea thats how ive decided to play friendlies from now on. But the majority of the people here seem to want to play friendlies just as hard as playing a tournament match.

 

[Signia]

You only want to save them to prevent them from dying down, you are stilling trying to kill them as fast as possible though, just off the sides or the top. Its just a different way to play the game

Whatever ... if you think it's somehow more fun to kill off the sides or top, and those extra little fun points you're getting is more important to you and whoever you're playing than improving ... then fine, I don't care.

 

[th0rn]

If this helps you feel better when you lose, go for it.

"i wasn't edgeguarding you properly, so this isnt legit!!!!!!!!"

Friendlies arent legit to begin with... but its clear you know that both yourself and your oppenent are trying hard to win, and you cant admit your constant defeat.

So yeah, I guess people who constantly hate losing when trying their hardest should play this game to make themselves feel better... so they don't have to admit to themselves they are indeed a scrub.

 

[Ballistics]

hmm such hostility I doubt youve tried it out th0rn, dont knock it till you try it?


This game was developed with the bored mindset in mind, however yea when you travel and have to play serious matches you wouldn't play this game. There are alot of circumstances where the game is not appropriate, but couldn't anyone at least conceptualize this as warmups?

 

[th0rn]

LOL why dont you just play an infinite stock match instead?

EDIT: o wait, because then if the person kills you 20 times in a row you realize you're a fackin random.

Which kinda defeats the main purpose of making this game...=/

 

[Antifate]

Eh, there's a point where you cannot follow the rules without killing yourself. Moreover it kind of demoralizes the other person. There are other ways to have fun and be friendly.

 

[th0rn]

Competitive smash is competitive.

 

[Ballistics]

LOL why dont you just play an infinite stock match instead?

EDIT: o wait, because then if the person kills you 20 times in a row you realize you're a fackin random.

Which kinda defeats the main purpose of making this game...=/

Im not sure what you mean by doing an infinite stock match then noone wins.

All im trying to do is get people to try this out

 

[th0rn]

o cool bro

i have some ideas of my own id like to add.

Games are played without spotdodges(****ING CHEAP) and rolls (MEGA CHEAP) That way you can break those habits

Games are played with only TWO dash attacks per game, cause *******s like to spam that. And You also cannot use your c-stick. Its good to not rely on it all the time.

I'm probably going to make threads for these... unless you just want to add them to the front page?

 

[mastermoo420]

Just because you're not playing a tournament match doesn't have to mean you're not playing seriouslies. Also, if the problem lies with the people not being able to switch their mindset, why not change your own? If you expect to make these types of games/rules because they're beating on you, you should be expected to change your mindset, too. They might want to play to win (because, honestly, that's how some people have fun) or they might want to play to judge their skill level to yours. Skill doesn't have to be determined in a tournament, either.

When tech skill and combos are already developed, the game comes down to baiting and waiting.

There's a lot more to melee than tech skills and combos. I've learned that already. You don't necessarily need to bait and wait; you can always initiate an attack. It's not like the first person to attack will automatically lose because they didn't wait. Thought tech skills and combos may be developed, someone else's maturity in those aspect could be greater.

/rant

I don't want to make some super large post so I stop here. Plus, I think I'm out of ideas, lol.

All that aside, I think this is a cool idea and could actually help someone develop their non-edge-based skills. Then again, there's people who main exclusively a character or style based around the edge. I'm sure the problem that's in the OP exists, but I don't think this is the only solution (though I'm sure you didn't meant it to be)

 

[th0rn]

LOL, this is obv a troll thread now.

He made this thread to john about losing some friendlies to his friend

To not look like a complete douche he has to keep playing along like he is rlly into this nonsense he came up with

 

[Ballistics]

LOL, this is obv a troll thread now.

He made this thread to john about losing some friendlies to his friend

To not look like a complete douche he has to keep playing along like he is rlly into this nonsense he came up with

I hope your not usually this mean thorn why don't you just unsubscribe if you don't like the idea

 

[Signia]

What's with the "you don't know how good it is until you try it" nonsense? I haven't tried dropping a bowling ball on my toe but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it.

I like thorn's ideas. Add attacking from the ledge, possibly.

Eh, just work on breaking your own habits whenever you play, any rules should only be self-imposed for your own improvment

 

[TresChikon]

Roy would be top tier since Roy just ***** you off the screen and doesn't need gimps anyways.

A new tier list needs to be defined if volleying becomes intact.

 

[Ballistics]

Haha this would never be used as a tournament game although we do see mango do weird stuff like jab instead of rest just to mock opponents

All that aside, I think this is a cool idea and could actually help someone develop their non-edge-based skills. Then again, there's people who main exclusively a character or style based around the edge. I'm sure the problem that's in the OP exists, but I don't think this is the only solution (though I'm sure you didn't meant it to be)

See I can tell you missed the point of the game, if you can only die to the sides, the number of edgeguards you have to pull off is increased greatly and so you get more practice doing edge based skills.

 

[TresChikon]

Can you still ledgehog for the sake of punishing lag?

Like holding the edge so Sheik has to land with uber lag, so you can kill her off the sides?

On a side note, Falcon would be God tier.

He's too heavy and too much of a FFer to die off the sides and knees knees knees.

 

[Ballistics]

you can do anything just as long as they dont die down, you can definitely grab the ledge and punish her up b

falcon's knee is great for this game