Wario MU discussion: Diddy Kong

[toobusytocare]

if its only 7-8 frames then how come diddy can interrupt GnWs bair with a banana throw?

 

[tibs7]

Ughhh you're wrong.
He can throw it if inbetween the 2nd last and last hit. There are quite a few frames inbetween them 2.

 

[Krystedez]

the only reason wario ***** "less" than diddy with the bananas is because diddy can pull them out at will.

Beyond that, Wario can simply grab one and use them just as well, and have a MYRIAD of options after diddy slips or gets hit by a banana.

Followups like dair to something else, or kill moves like fart or fsmash, and even gimps, PLUS bananas do not disappear after being blocked, so you can put a lot of the shield pressure you couldn't do with the tires (which is still a lot even then) into the banana game.

Wario will break you.

 

[toobusytocare]

Ughhh you're wrong.
He can throw it if inbetween the 2nd last and last hit. There are quite a few frames inbetween them 2.

yeah on average its like 5 frames but it depends on how they space it (the last hit comes out when they touch the ground

where the **** is praxis?

 

[B.Mack]

And wario ***** with bananas,
but not as much as diddy.

This is the point I was trying to make.

Followups like dair to something else, or kill moves like fart or fsmash, and even gimps.

I addressed this in my post, naner is very useful when you're looking for the kill. Better than the tire for setting up kills, which is still really good.

It's clearly a combination of how to use nanas, "data", and options.
Face it, Diddy can't do !@#$ like Wario can if he steals Diddy's diamonds peelz.

Diddy ***** more with bananas than Wario, his glidetoss is perfect, his throw is super-quick, he has so many options from banana throw and can easily just do a throw-combo to the edge of the stage, grab release to dair on Wario. my point is, you are almost always better off just eating the bananas and punishing him when he tries to pluck more.
As an ex-diddy, I know for a fact that anytime someone got one of my bananas and threw it at me, I'd just shield it, short hop and insta-throw it at them, or do a b-air/f-air OoS to catch the banana and hit anyone trying to follow up. seriously, this is a character who's ENTIRE game revolves around bananas, do you really think he wont have strategies to recover his bananas and strategies to maximise the use of them? If you happn to get a diddy that doesnt know his bananas in the bracket then lucky you, but I challenge you to prove that you can get one of ADHD's bananas and use it better than him/keep him from getting it back.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

This is the point I was trying to make.


I addressed this in my post, naner is very useful when you're looking for the kill. Better than the tire for setting up kills, which is still really good.



Diddy ***** more with bananas than Wario, his glidetoss is perfect, his throw is super-quick, he has so many options from banana throw and can easily just do a throw-combo to the edge of the stage, grab release to dair on Wario. my point is, you are almost always better off just eating the bananas and punishing him when he tries to pluck more.
As an ex-diddy, I know for a fact that anytime someone got one of my bananas and threw it at me, I'd just shield it, short hop and insta-throw it at them, or do a b-air/f-air OoS to catch the banana and hit anyone trying to follow up. seriously, this is a character who's ENTIRE game revolves around bananas, do you really think he wont have strategies to recover his bananas and strategies to maximise the use of them? If you happn to get a diddy that doesnt know his bananas in the bracket then lucky you, but I challenge you to prove that you can get one of ADHD's bananas and use it better than him/keep him from getting it back.

Other plays have shown to have as good as banana control if not better with nana's against ADHD anti and atomsk come to mind. So that's not outside of the realm of possibility. If you've seen Krsyt play I don't think it's a stretch to say it's out of the realm of possibility. Also I'd want to know what makes Diddy's glide toss perfect? Also can't anyone respond the same way to if anyone those a nana at their shield ? It's not as though the options you're naming is left up to only diddy.

IDK if Krsyt can do this however there are techniques that simply **** diddy kong and his nana something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93wxSc8JoCc

But no one is bothered to learn and neither am I but just relax be4 you try and make these wild claims like diddy is God of nana's.

 

[B.Mack]

Anti, atomsk and dojo are all amazing with Manet control... But have they displayed this with Wario? That's the point I'm trying to make... Without clicking it, I'm gonna assume you linked a single naner lock, true, everyone can do it on diddy, but it's VERY hard to do consistently and very few non-diddy mains would bother to learn it...
Wario can do the jump Oos to catch... But wario's jump OoS is 9 frames iirc compared to diddy's 5frame jump OoS.
Diddy's gt is perfect bcos it's not too short or too long, it's what allows him naner-combo across the stage and then end with a semi-charged dsmash at stage edge. Wario's long GT has it's applications, but I still believe diddy's is better all things considered. I've seen krystedez play diddys and he's good, but I dont think it's as a direct result of using the naners.


LET ME SUM IT UP.
the disadvantage of nanerless diddy is greater than the advantage of Wario with naners. This is my belief.

 

[Lord Chair]

The length of Wario's glide to is fine. His throw animation is just garbage.

Also, his jump is 7 frames, not 9.

 

[B.Mack]

Hence the iirc, I wasn't sure... and yeah, wario's garbage throw animation doesn't help at all.
I mentioned that his glidetoss length has applications, especially for landing smashes and the like, but he can't combo like diddy can...

 

[Blue Rogue]

I don't think you should be eating naners if you want get rid of them, it leaves you open if he's ready to approach or lets him pull one sooner while you're stuck digesting it.
I z catch em and throw them off stage or away from diddy while moving towards him.

 

[Player-1]

Wario, I feel, is one of the characters that can do better with bananas than most of the cast. Not nearly as good as Diddy though, as said earlier, diddy's data and the character himself is better than any other character. Wario's aerial movement helps A LOT with banana control and utilizes the bananas completely different from Diddy.

Overall, I think it's pretty even. I could see where both parties would say 55-45 in either of the chars favor or even, it's DEFINITELY not 6-4 in either char's favor either though. Wario is one of my best MUs so I could write a lot about the MU, but I don't feel like it really >.>, I'd rather just address topics as they're presented.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I don't think you should be eating naners if you want get rid of them, it leaves you open if he's ready to approach or lets him pull one sooner while you're stuck digesting it.
I z catch em and throw them off stage or away from diddy while moving towards him.

Actually, If you want to occupy his naners you should keep them in hand. Throwing them away allows him to pull more out. With diddy it's something liek this Diddy with 2 nanas > Diddy with 1 Nana> Diddy with no nanas. You don't want diddy to have any nanas and you don't want diddy to have to out. You can throw em up or throw em down however, I wouldn't suggest throwing them away. If your percentages is low enough and you already have a nana there's no reason not to eat a nana. I'm not saying to eat them and give him a free kill but there are circumstance when eating a nana isn't bad. Of course you can always shield then airdodge and grab it.

 

[B.Mack]

maybe its because I havent tried this out against any super-pro diddys... but all the diddys I've played so far... if you eat their naners and punish them everytime they pluck, they eventually give up on plucking naners... if theres a naner on the floor I'd suggest you pick it up, but WHILE he's plucking them, you can just jump and eat one, then f-air or nair him while he tries to pluck the second. the next time I play a diddy I'll get a video so I can show you guys what I mean.

 

[Blue Rogue]

AL - I agree; however some Diddies(?) are really lols bad when they can try to go pull one + I suck at keeping Diddy away from them and suck at playing while always holding one ;(.

As for eating them as he's pulling them, just hit him then throw them away afterword instead lol

 

[Krystedez]

Okay then, since this is all beliefs and opinion, it's my firm belief that until a Diddy competes with ME in a banana to banana steal fest with moves set up to kill, that I won't believe a Diddy has "more" potential than Wario has with his own item from my own experience in the matchup.

You can throw frame data at this situation all you want, but that isn't the only thing that determines the advantages Wario has with the bananas in hand versus the advantages Diddy has with the bananas in hand. That's all I'm trying to say. Wario has a lot more potential to "****" with the bananas than not only every other character in the game, but also the character who even pulls them out. I'm basically repeating myself here, so I'll just leave it that I guess...

Also, note, I never eat Diddy's bananas, I always use them as efficiently as I use the tires, placing them as traps, and they excel my glide-toss game much further than the tires because bananas instant trip, and are not DIable.

 

[B.Mack]

thats a fair point tbh Kryst... *goes to sleep*

 

[Count]

I do want to say that whoever says that Battlefield is a good counterpick for Wario is silly. I consider that Diddy's second best stage in this matchup.

Diddy's strength in this matchup is camping under platforms, which reduces Wario's aerial approaches. Ask kryz about playing on Yoshi's Island vs Diddy . For us, upthrowing bananas is good even if they do not connect with wario, in this case at least Wario's movement is altered. I try to have a banana in front of me a lot of the time because otherwise I get bitten or something to that nature. Kryz is good at baiting Diddy's fair for a fart KO; I feel like this would be a good tactic against most Diddy Kongs as fair will be used a lot in the matchup for us as it is our safest move/aerial. bair oos is also key for Diddy Kong in this matchup.

Those are just a few tid bits about the matchup that I've picked up on.

Oh, and for stages, Wario has Frigate, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair (depending on how liberal your region is), and numerous other stages that would be better than Battlefield. Even though I typically love the normal Diddy stages of ps1, sv, and fd, my two favorite stages in this matchup are BF and YI

 

[Dynomite]

^ OH SHI-- this guy is my avatar's alternate ego!

 

[Krystedez]

ONE BANANA. TWO BANANA.

HA HA HA. I LOVE COUNTING!

*hides*

 

[volume]

it would seem the bike is huge help in this MU.

 

[Waymas]

sup guys long time i dont post in here , so yea like kryz said usin bananas for glide and traps is awesome , i sumtimes eat em kause it makes diddy angry lol.

Anyway yea 60-40 and wario has more power killin since u can smash di the fsmash

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=71176 << kinda outdated but ill prolly update soon my opinion in matchups as wario

 

[B.Mack]

Bike is HUGE in this matchup btw... when diddy has a banana in hand and we bike towards him, their only option is to shield it or spotdodge, bcos they have no options to punish a biking Wario(assuming you wheelie for more coverage I guess)
the bike also goes over grounded nanas which is pretty good for smacking away a diddy who is trying to get to a nana to pick it up.
Biking when diddy throws a nana can be good for a surprise retaliation as the bike will absorb the nana and it completely throws off the diddy's momentum. f-air and nair gimps are REALLY good in this matchup so never let a diddy go free offstage.

 

[Lord Chair]

They can really just bair OoS with the proper reflexes.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Bike is HUGE in this matchup btw... when diddy has a banana in hand and we bike towards him, their only option is to shield it or spotdodge, bcos they have no options to punish a biking Wario(assuming you wheelie for more coverage I guess)
the bike also goes over grounded nanas which is pretty good for smacking away a diddy who is trying to get to a nana to pick it up.
Biking when diddy throws a nana can be good for a surprise retaliation as the bike will absorb the nana and it completely throws off the diddy's momentum. f-air and nair gimps are REALLY good in this matchup so never let a diddy go free offstage.

they can throw a nana at you and make you fall off the bke....

 

[Lord Chair]

they can throw a nana at you and make you fall off the bke....

They can't.

Seriously do you even bother thinking about what you write down :X

 

[B.Mack]

They can really just bair OoS with the proper reflexes.

I said "with a naner in hand" so obviously they cant bair... the best they could do is Z-drop it and then bair I guess... but they'd probably be roadkill by then.

they can throw a nana at you and make you fall off the bke....

lolno. I mentioned "assuming ur doing a wheelie for more coverage" but even if you arent doing a wheelie, they'd have to jump and then throw the naner for it to hit Wario.

They can't.

Seriously do you even bother thinking about what you write down :X

I lol'd.

 

[Lord Chair]

lolignorethis

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm almost certain that your notion that bike is good in this MU is an horrible approach to the MU if you want to deal with nana's there's a better way to deal with them.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Bike isnt horrible imo but its not the best option.

also does anyone know if we can do the new infinite on diddy?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Bike isnt horrible imo but its not the best option.

also does anyone know if we can do the new infinite on diddy?

this infinite ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93wxSc8JoCc

It's a pretty horrible option.

 

[Juno McGrath]

no the new one. hold on ill find a link.

 

[Juno McGrath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6OejhNp9F4

a lot of characters can do this to diddy because his trip is the exact same length as MK's

Ive been trying to test this on diddy but i cant really instant throw as consistently as needed to make sure its legit.

So someone please get on this :D

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

LoL this is the wario boards no way you going motivate anyone to do anything like that. You're better of trying it yourself n*ggas is lazy around these parts.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Ive been trying it but i need other people to do it to make sure its legit.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Ive been trying it but i need other people to do it to make sure its legit.

If you can replicate it then it should be legit. If you can get a vid up of it then it may generate more interest.

 

[B.Mack]

Noone is even gonna learn it... ADHD still hasn't ever applied it yet. Loads of players in the Japanese scene do it though.

 

[xzx]

I would say the MU is 50:50.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Noone is even gonna learn it... ADHD still hasn't ever applied it yet. Loads of players in the Japanese scene do it though.

Not the same infinite, this one was just found like last week dude.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I would say the MU is 50:50.

13 post after being on the site for almost 2 years and you post to tell us your a MU is even.......

 

[tibs7]

I think it's in wario adv. Tbh. Slightly to 60:40.
Wario has a free win cp which is a huge adv I think.
His mobility, kill moves, BITE, and weight are all to much for diddy.

Where's tedeth? He knows it quite well I think.