Even. We juggle her too well and edgeguard her too well and potentially camp her too well for it to be any worse than that.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Wario's Match-Ups!
- Thread starter xzx
- Start date
Peach is good at outranging us (bair...) and she doesn't have trouble racking up damage. If you're grabbed you're screwed, since she can do an up-smash, up-air and up-tilt (all dependant on the situation) and surely some more attacks. Yeah, Wario is definetily a character Peach CAN kill (imagine that!!). However, Wario can kill Peach pretty "early" with a fresh up-air (and of course the famous waft) and Peach's air dodge sucks, meaning there is potential to try to chase her in the air. Against Wario she is better by doing something else, like dairing. Her air dodge is too punishable. It has 30 frames of "ending lag" which means there is plenty of time for a waft. I like to use the bike and tires in this MU, since they kinda limit Peach's floating approaches. Wario's fair is a great tool too against Peach. Bite is a decent tool (rather than eating the turnips, which Wario hates. He wants garlic.), but don't overuse it. Again, no matter what you do, avoid that ever annoying grab-release, and you'll be fine. Being KO:ed around 100% against a fairly weak character like Peach is heart breaking. -1 for Wario definetily.
DMG: -1
-LzR-: -1
Croi: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
LOE1: -1
xzx: -1
DMG: -1
-LzR-: -1
Croi: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
LOE1: -1
xzx: -1
There's no reason to use Bite with the intention of eating turnips. They move so slowly that you should have almost no trouble instant throwing them.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
0, clear counterplay to everything only its often tedious to execute
once youre comfortable executing the important parts of this MU its hard to advocate a disadvantage
once youre comfortable executing the important parts of this MU its hard to advocate a disadvantage
DMG: -1
-LzR-: -1
Croi: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
LOE1: -1
xzx: -1
Lord Chair: 0
@TheReflexWonder: Maybe not, but if she is holding a stitch facer maybe you could use bite as a panic button! x) And yeah, eating every turnip is not what I recommend, since there is other stuff to cope with them (i.e. bike, catching them etc).
-LzR-: -1
Croi: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
LOE1: -1
xzx: -1
Lord Chair: 0
@TheReflexWonder: Maybe not, but if she is holding a stitch facer maybe you could use bite as a panic button! x) And yeah, eating every turnip is not what I recommend, since there is other stuff to cope with them (i.e. bike, catching them etc).
You have to understand that keeping yourself immobilized is a terrible idea here, since she gets grab release, you don't really get anything useful out of holding it longer than a tapped B button (unless she tries to hard read your mouth closing), and it's not even a safe defense against turnip stuff, since she can Z-Drop and immediately catch the turnip with an aerial. She's not limited to turnip throws with it.
Reflex, what I meant was that if Peach is tossing a turnip against you, you can use bite as a panic button to eat it. I did not mean that we should bite in advance (because it is really dangerous to do so).
Before this thread was active (when we discussed Top Tiers) but now... =(
Before this thread was active (when we discussed Top Tiers) but now... =(
Luigi player
Smash Master
It's even. Basically what reflex said.
Wario can stay below platforms to not get gr-usmashed and camp her. Wario can juggle and kill her well too.
Wario can stay below platforms to not get gr-usmashed and camp her. Wario can juggle and kill her well too.
yea i agree with the even MU as well . Peach can only kill you early at 100 only with a gr to usmash. Otherwise you will get killed at like 140 +. We can juggle her with some tiers and also she die pretty fast.
But still dont get cocky kause her aerials have way more priority than yours. Bair is a pain , try to play really campy and with tires
0 imo
But still dont get cocky kause her aerials have way more priority than yours. Bair is a pain , try to play really campy and with tires
0 imo
Iota
Smash Lord
0 if we can SDI dair. -1 otherwise imo. MU is very campy so don't try to rush it.
And we can, so, 0.
I feel if one side wins Peach does but honestly it's not by much, Wario's gimp game, bite and better recovery make it a close fight, i think if peach didn't have grab release she'd definetly loose. I'd say stage dependent, honestly Peach gets wrecked vs Wario on Lylat and BF but is better on smashville and PS1 where theres less platforms, depends on the stage list of the tournament more than anything i think.
Yoshi however i don't really see how wario can't avoid being grabbed by Yoshi, his pivot grab is massive I think that matchups close too but leans a little toward Yoshi, they seem equal up until theres no platforms and the Yoshi main is good at timing the air release chain grab. Wario can rack up more damage on stage but at killing Yoshi is better simply because his move set is similair to Wario's and is quite heavy himself, and whilst he doesn't have waft GR>waft. He's like D3 he doesn't have any particular trouble pivoting wario out of his aproaches, and those eggs, god bless Wario's air dodge lol, though sooner or later Wario will have to read Yoshi and come down and attack him. which from my experience from both sides can be quite dangerous.
BTW WOLF is -1 not -2 on the front page :/
Yoshi however i don't really see how wario can't avoid being grabbed by Yoshi, his pivot grab is massive I think that matchups close too but leans a little toward Yoshi, they seem equal up until theres no platforms and the Yoshi main is good at timing the air release chain grab. Wario can rack up more damage on stage but at killing Yoshi is better simply because his move set is similair to Wario's and is quite heavy himself, and whilst he doesn't have waft GR>waft. He's like D3 he doesn't have any particular trouble pivoting wario out of his aproaches, and those eggs, god bless Wario's air dodge lol, though sooner or later Wario will have to read Yoshi and come down and attack him. which from my experience from both sides can be quite dangerous.
BTW WOLF is -1 not -2 on the front page :/
Iota
Smash Lord
Basically everyone voted for +2 when we were discussing Wolf so no.
The GR isn't what skews the match up in her favor(although it definitely makes her more annoying), it's her better damage racking game at lower percents (because of dair) and her ability to wall us completely when she's in the lead. I also disagree with BF being a good stage vs Peach, it just makes it a lot easier for her to wall us while making it harder for us to do damage.
Not going to respond to Yoshi because I don't want to derail the discussion.
The GR isn't what skews the match up in her favor(although it definitely makes her more annoying), it's her better damage racking game at lower percents (because of dair) and her ability to wall us completely when she's in the lead. I also disagree with BF being a good stage vs Peach, it just makes it a lot easier for her to wall us while making it harder for us to do damage.
Not going to respond to Yoshi because I don't want to derail the discussion.
D-Air is not a good move for damage-racking--It's good because of its range. It's easy to SDI.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
peach' dair isnt close to being a deciding element of the MU
Iota
Smash Lord
For Reflex, I meant it more as a really good combo starter than a damage racker for people that can't SDI it, which is kind of like our FH dair @ lower percents.
For LC, I shouldn't have said it that way. I know it isn't a deciding element, especially if you can SDI it, but it is one of the factors that make her damage racking game better than ours at lower percents. I probably would've edited it to include some other stuff but I had to leave for piano lessons right away lol.
For LC, I shouldn't have said it that way. I know it isn't a deciding element, especially if you can SDI it, but it is one of the factors that make her damage racking game better than ours at lower percents. I probably would've edited it to include some other stuff but I had to leave for piano lessons right away lol.
Peach can do other things when grabreleasing below kill % or a platform. People should learn the GR uair5x. It does a cool 40% damage for free. And when that doesn't work a double hit nair over 20%. Just because you are not at kill % doesn't mean the grab isn't going to hurt. Also Peaches ability to have lagless aerials makes it much easier to get a grab than it should be with her average grab range. Bair is hard to deal with and has no lag.
That's not a thing, either. Wario can SDI out and take no more than two of them, as I found while playing against Excel_Zero. Wario doesn't fall quickly enough for it to be a legitimate combo like it is on, say, Fox.
Luigi player
Smash Master
More like 180+...
Also if you cant sdi her dair it probably is a big deal (in any mu). But people should always do that anyway. And should obv. Be assumed since when talking about mu's we assume top level play.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,861
- NNID
- RicardoAvocado
xzx covered it pretty well imo
Grab release stuff:
- Grab release leads to Up Smash or Nair provided there aren't any platforms for Wario to land on
- GR Up Smash at 85% should not kill you on most stages, even if the Up Smash is fresh. Peach will want to go for about 90-95% to be safe (I prefer 100% just to be sure)
- Peach has a guaranteed GR Up Tilt on Wario regardless of whether there are platforms (depends on the height of them though but certainly for BF and SV this is true)
- I personally don't think the Uair string works very well on Wario in general so I'm sceptical of it working after a GR
You want to camp the **** out of Peach since your mobility is much better than hers
Once you get her in the air, try your best to juggle her as much as possible. I know Uair is a great kill move but it's also a good juggler so use it, use it, use it. You can get your kills from Waft, F Smash/F Tilt or edgeguarding. Bair is also good for suprise kills.
Fair is an excellent poker and forces her to face you meaning she can't retaliate with a quick Bair
Be vicious with your edgeguarding - even if you don't outright kill her, you can still harrass her and get her on the ledge. When she's on the ledge go for Uair if she goes for a jump get up or F Smash/F Tilt if she goes for a ground get up or Fair from the ledge
Peach's main tactic will involves trying to wall you out with Fair and Bair. If she whiffs her aerials, use your superior air mobility to punish. If she gets very careless with her spacing you can run underneath her and shield grab as she lands, Wario's grab is pretty decent imo. You can harrass her with Dairs but watch out for Up Tilt/F Tilt. DI up if she catches you with her Dair
Stage wise - avoid FD like the plague for obvious reasons. If you do somehow end up on this stage, use tires as much as possible to interrupt her approaches/Float since there's no platforms for you to dance around and do shenanigans. I also don't think YI is a good stage for Wario when fighting Peach but that's just my opinion. Take her to Lylat, everything else is fair game
This is a very tedious MU because the person who throws the first punch can often find themselves getting punished for offering up their hurtbox so consequently it becomes a game of baiting by throwing aerials out at...nothing
Be immensely patient and defensive in neutral situations but once you get her in an unfavourable position in the air/offstage, really go for it because getting the lead early on puts you in a very advantageous position
tl;dr Camp camp camp
Grab release stuff:
- Grab release leads to Up Smash or Nair provided there aren't any platforms for Wario to land on
- GR Up Smash at 85% should not kill you on most stages, even if the Up Smash is fresh. Peach will want to go for about 90-95% to be safe (I prefer 100% just to be sure)
- Peach has a guaranteed GR Up Tilt on Wario regardless of whether there are platforms (depends on the height of them though but certainly for BF and SV this is true)
- I personally don't think the Uair string works very well on Wario in general so I'm sceptical of it working after a GR
You want to camp the **** out of Peach since your mobility is much better than hers
Once you get her in the air, try your best to juggle her as much as possible. I know Uair is a great kill move but it's also a good juggler so use it, use it, use it. You can get your kills from Waft, F Smash/F Tilt or edgeguarding. Bair is also good for suprise kills.
Fair is an excellent poker and forces her to face you meaning she can't retaliate with a quick Bair
Be vicious with your edgeguarding - even if you don't outright kill her, you can still harrass her and get her on the ledge. When she's on the ledge go for Uair if she goes for a jump get up or F Smash/F Tilt if she goes for a ground get up or Fair from the ledge
Peach's main tactic will involves trying to wall you out with Fair and Bair. If she whiffs her aerials, use your superior air mobility to punish. If she gets very careless with her spacing you can run underneath her and shield grab as she lands, Wario's grab is pretty decent imo. You can harrass her with Dairs but watch out for Up Tilt/F Tilt. DI up if she catches you with her Dair
Stage wise - avoid FD like the plague for obvious reasons. If you do somehow end up on this stage, use tires as much as possible to interrupt her approaches/Float since there's no platforms for you to dance around and do shenanigans. I also don't think YI is a good stage for Wario when fighting Peach but that's just my opinion. Take her to Lylat, everything else is fair game
This is a very tedious MU because the person who throws the first punch can often find themselves getting punished for offering up their hurtbox so consequently it becomes a game of baiting by throwing aerials out at...nothing
Be immensely patient and defensive in neutral situations but once you get her in an unfavourable position in the air/offstage, really go for it because getting the lead early on puts you in a very advantageous position
tl;dr Camp camp camp
DMG: -1
-LzR-: -1
Croi: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
LOE1: -1
xzx: -1
Lord Chair: 0
Luigi Player: 0
Buff: 0
Iota: 0
I wanted to go over to Pit but now we have ended up in a tie of whereas the MU should be -1 or even. If Rickerdy could have left a ratio it would have been all solved now. I hope he does (if he ever returns to this thread). Otherwise let's wait.
-LzR-: -1
Croi: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
LOE1: -1
xzx: -1
Lord Chair: 0
Luigi Player: 0
Buff: 0
Iota: 0
I wanted to go over to Pit but now we have ended up in a tie of whereas the MU should be -1 or even. If Rickerdy could have left a ratio it would have been all solved now. I hope he does (if he ever returns to this thread). Otherwise let's wait.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,861
- NNID
- RicardoAvocado
Lol you honestly don't have to wait for me to give a ratio, it's your MU thread after all I just play this MU a lot and sort of enjoy it...in a way
Overall I'd say I'd say 0 because whilst Peach can wall Wario pretty well, Wario is a mobile little bugger and can get kills much easier. That's taking into account that the MU will most likely never be played on FD too
I always think the MU is Peach's advantage until I get killed at like 60% by that ****ing crazy powerful waft or I finally grab Wario and realise there's a platform above, ruining the chance of an Up Smash. Catching Wario can be a real nightmare and whilst Turnips can help, it's an effort to regain the lead if Wario takes a stock off early in the game
If you want to get more info ask Illmatic or KB cause I think they know the MU pretty well but tbh I don't think the MU has changed very much
I just play this MU a lot and sort of enjoy it...in a wayOverall I'd say I'd say 0 because whilst Peach can wall Wario pretty well, Wario is a mobile little bugger and can get kills much easier. That's taking into account that the MU will most likely never be played on FD too
I always think the MU is Peach's advantage until I get killed at like 60% by that ****ing crazy powerful waft or I finally grab Wario and realise there's a platform above, ruining the chance of an Up Smash. Catching Wario can be a real nightmare and whilst Turnips can help, it's an effort to regain the lead if Wario takes a stock off early in the game
If you want to get more info ask Illmatic or KB cause I think they know the MU pretty well but tbh I don't think the MU has changed very much
+1 Wario is hard as **** to kill if you are Pit. LGL/scrooging rule takes care of those other issues. Shooting arrows from the edge is risky, gives Wario free time to build up fart. Arrows in general suck in this MU, Pit's ground spacing and gameplay is what he should focus on here. Tilts, backing up moving around, not SH Nair Bair etc.
The killing disparity imo is what makes it Wario's favor though. Pit can't force Wario to eat Fsmash or sweetspot Bair, and nothing else will kill reasonably.
Been a longgggg time since I've done the MU though. No one really plays Pit anymore. Safe to say we have at least some small edge though.
The killing disparity imo is what makes it Wario's favor though. Pit can't force Wario to eat Fsmash or sweetspot Bair, and nothing else will kill reasonably.
Been a longgggg time since I've done the MU though. No one really plays Pit anymore. Safe to say we have at least some small edge though.
ぱみゅ
❤ ~
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2008
- Messages
- 10,010
- Location
- Under your skirt
- NNID
- kyo.pamyu.pamyu
- 3DS FC
- 4785-5700-5699
- Switch FC
- SW 3264 5694 6605
This is the first Time I see someone comparing a +1 to a 65:35....
*goes away*
*goes away*
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
+1 55:45.
Will stick around to discuss reasonings.
Will stick around to discuss reasonings.
ShadowAzure
Smash Journeyman
I'll say +2 Wario.
As long as Wario has control and patience, he can be all over Pit in so many ways. We can dodge his arrows all day if we need to, he has trouble keeping us away from him as long as we aren't too obvious, and he doesn't have much of anything to approach. His only reliable option is a campy ledge game that does nothing but stall, and MAYBE a little bit of damage. He'll either break lgl (if applicable), or eventually have to approach. We can just wait him out. It gets even easier if we pick up on the Pit player's habits, as we can easily bait them out (often with tires) and punish. On decent DI we don't have much trouble living over 150% (unless we get hit by bair). He can up air our dair, but our dair isn't really essential at all. Throw in a good bite game, and we will give Pit far too many problems for me to ever think of this as only a +1 for us.
As long as Wario has control and patience, he can be all over Pit in so many ways. We can dodge his arrows all day if we need to, he has trouble keeping us away from him as long as we aren't too obvious, and he doesn't have much of anything to approach. His only reliable option is a campy ledge game that does nothing but stall, and MAYBE a little bit of damage. He'll either break lgl (if applicable), or eventually have to approach. We can just wait him out. It gets even easier if we pick up on the Pit player's habits, as we can easily bait them out (often with tires) and punish. On decent DI we don't have much trouble living over 150% (unless we get hit by bair). He can up air our dair, but our dair isn't really essential at all. Throw in a good bite game, and we will give Pit far too many problems for me to ever think of this as only a +1 for us.
waldorf2007
Smash Ace
ahhhh scotty finally appears on the boards. definitely +1 wario, easy to avoid almost anything pit has, just don't get hit by bair.
though I don't support biting pit. pit's fsmash moves himback slightly, and unless you space it perfectly if oyu were to falling bite, pit can step dodge to fsmash and actually hit you through bite, without a problem.
hell, pit's fsmash is the only thing I really hate in the matchup (maybe cuz I can't consistently DI it) because of the upward hit, that can hit you as you fall on pit.
though I don't support biting pit. pit's fsmash moves himback slightly, and unless you space it perfectly if oyu were to falling bite, pit can step dodge to fsmash and actually hit you through bite, without a problem.
hell, pit's fsmash is the only thing I really hate in the matchup (maybe cuz I can't consistently DI it) because of the upward hit, that can hit you as you fall on pit.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
i actually think bite is fairly good because he has to commit to shielding a lot even though it doesnt really net him concrete counterplay
meaning you dont have to fear strong counters like MK's upb
meaning you dont have to fear strong counters like MK's upb
Luckay4Lyphe
Smash Master
Dumb matchup, wario too fast in the air. 60:40 wario
Iota
Smash Lord
+1. Pit has decent damage racking and arrows can be annoying but he can't kill at all outside of Wario running into bair/f-smash.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
wario isn't going to gimp pit unless pit willingly gives up resources for no reason
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
True @ Gimping. It's not THAT hard to land a kill move. it's landing a kill move at exact % at the best stage position for it to actually kill. Pit can land bairs on wario all day. But it's doing it in the right place at the right % for the kill that is the issue. This matchup would be even if not for waft pressure. The presence of waft forces us to ignore some options.