Wario's Matchups - Free discussion!

[DMG]

Falco doesn't warrant a CP, but it's still a hard MU. Fox is the real one to be scared of though out of the spacies.

 

[\Apples]

Vs Falco, Skyloft is your best CP stage if you feel like getting janky because the uneven terrain can keep his lasering you troublesome. But honestly, I think your best options for stages vs Falco are small stages. Less space for Wario to control and less room for Falco to hop in and out with lasers. No stage is going to free you from his combo game, let that be known. So all you really can do is take him to stages that mitigate your stress from his lasers and boost your neutral game a bit.

Yeah DMG, Fox is seriously no fun unless you get a grab, which is damn near impossible for Wario on good Foxes. Aaand Wario's OOS options get beat by whatever Fox feels like doing as long as he's not making shield pressure mistakes.

 

[arwildcats09]

I'm posting a lot in this thread lately but I wanted to ask another question. How is everyone handling the new Mewtwo matchup?

 

[LOE1]

yeaa i think falco is wario's worst mu, wario just gets **** on lol.
i think he's harder than fox tbh

 

[\Apples]

I haven't had much time to play against Mewtwo yet. I'm hoping I can get in a solid session with Kaostar soon, if I do I'll return with my findings.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Idk I've started to feel way more comfortable in the fox matchup than the falco one. Falco will always and forever wreck my shiz, and also marth, I can't deal with marth. I have absolutely no idea how mew2 would go, since no one in my group has interest in the character except me lol.

 

[0RLY]

Falco is super hard without stage advantage. Meaning you have to win game 1 or else Falco is going to have 2 advantageous stages on you. You want platforms and the smallest stage possible. Best CP is Skyloft and Lylat. Best strategy is to camp at the edge of the stage (not hanging from ledge). Use platforms to avoid lasers. When the inevitable shffl comes in, you want to dash back and pivot grab. Bthrow fh double fair offstage is a free kill. Never approach falco. If Falco tries to shoot lasers at you from a platform on the opposite side of the stage to avoid approaching, side-b off the platform towards Falco and use the lagless landing to get Falco while he's still above you. This is easily forecasted since Falco pretty much must full hop or sh dj to reach any platform and you can use that time to get underneath.

Fox is as hard as MK for me. Except that I can bthrow double fair Fox for an easy gimp. It's just that Fox leaves no openings ever. Nothing he does is punishable except for maybe upsmash, but then I'd have to be at high percents just to bait it and that's a losing strategy.

Wario being that bait and punish sort of character can't punish characters that leave no openings. Good fast characters like Fox, Sheik, MK never gives me any openings. I struggle really hard against these characters, forcing me to make losing trades. The only trades I win are ones with SB, but that gets old really fast since I can't crouch out of it anymore.

I would also like to second sixsaw's post on the previous page. Though extremely concise, it says exactly what you need to know. SB>Spin dash. Do it often enough and Sonic will either stop or lose. Bowser is the easiest character to bite. Jump in, bait that shield, eat him, and bite throw into another bite or fh fair into falling bite.

 

[DMG]

I'm surprised that Skyloft is still legal. That stage is so awkward for MU's in general, I'm very surprised.

 

[0RLY]

Sometimes when Castle Siege and Halberd are legal, Wario can have a field day with Falco there.

 

[\Apples]

I agree, Fox is harder than Falco because there are no openings at all. I've only taken a game off Silent Wolf's Fox like once and that was before he figured Wario out. Perhaps I'm simply the inferior player and there is something Wario can do in that MU, but I just can't see it. Fox is easily my least favorite MU with Wario, I'd rather fight Falco or even Wolf. I think Wolf is harder than Falco, actually. He just never lets go of you once he gets a combo started. I think Wolf's combo game might be like... the best of the entire cast. He has no problems staying on Wario despite his incredible aerial mobility.

 

[SixSaw]

I had the chance to play a few friendlies against CunningKitsune's Fox recently. I'm by no means a particularly strong player, and I did lose every match (lol), but the matchup didn't feel too bad. Certainly winnable, and moreso than Falco or Marth imo. Fox does pretty much deathtouch Wario with a good hit, but that's nothing new. It seems to me that with proper vision and spacing Wario can body Fox not as (but sufficiently) hard.
Priority #1 should be to get him off-stage ASAP. Fox's recovery is stuffed easily by any of Wario's edgeguard options, so that's where your advantage is. Easier said than done though when Fox's on-stage neutral game is so strong. Nair is helpful because it's one of your few moves that can reliably beat out Fox's aerials, and because it can lead into follow-ups at low percents and send Fox off-stage at a good angle at higher percents. For that reason, diagonally above Fox feels like a relatively advantageous place to position yourself. Also avoid using your double jump in neutral as much as possible, and never let Fox get you in shield.
Again I'm no expert, but those are my thoughts.

 

[0RLY]

So, my problem is that Fox has no openings. Since I couldn't solve this problem, I decided to look at it from Fox's point of view. When Wario plays that spacing game, bait n' punish. Fox has it easy. Lasers, nairplanes, I could do whatever I wanted. If Wario is playing more aggressively however, I found myself losing more. Well, not losing games... but losing stocks. Granted, my fox is not as good as my friend's fox and his wario's not nearly as good as my wario but I'm getting somewhere. My buddy overemphasized Wario's throw of death against Fox, as if it was like an Ice Climber chain throw.

Basically, my plan for the future is use SB a lot to get my opponent thinking about it, then try to do one of those fancy extended dash grabs for the free KO. Only problem is that bthrow is what kills, and dash grab may move me too far forward to get Fox offstage.

 

[\Apples]

Dash Attack is really good vs characters with better dash dances, like Fox.

 

[SixSaw]

I'm having some trouble vs DK. Strong Bad is probably knowledgeable about this, so I'd love to hear his input.

For one thing, DK's punish game on Wario is very strong (thankfully the same is true vice versa). He almost feels like a mashup of the worst qualities of Marth and Captain Falcon. Those being: a grab range longer than any of Wario's moves, massive (often disjointed) hitboxes that make it difficult for Wario to get in, an effective dash dance, and enough speed to chase Wario down not only on the ground, but in the air as well.
The saving grace of this matchup is that DK's recovery is one of the free-est edgeguards in the game for Wario. Even at 0%, DK is always one off-stage dair away from death, and he's even courteous enough to flatten himself out like a pancake for you while recovering so as to remove any possibility of missing. However that's a situation that the DK player has no reason ever to put themselves in.
Overall it seems like DK just owns the neutral vs Wario. I get hits, and stocks, when DK overextends, but when he spaces properly, I feel like I can't do anything.

I will say that I don't make much use of c-buffered rolls, which I'm sure will allow me to escape some of DK's combos once I practice them. Still though, ****'s bad.

 

[Strong Badam]

Reflex says Wario vs Falco is even, I'm still not entirely convinced yet but I can see it. I went 1-1 with Kels' Falco with Wario when I was actually playing well (I wasn't at BH3).

I think DK beats Wario but it's not unmanageable. I played Eli in some friendlies and we were going even in that MU since I know DK's weak spots really well.

 

[Whoami40]

The Match up that always gets me is Game and Watch. Maybe it is just me but I can never approach him! When I try approaching from above I get the parachute and when I approach on the ground I get the bacon and chairs. Any advice on this match up?

 

[0RLY]

Strong Bad, could you list some of DK's openings to look out for and what not? Match-up specific things I should look out for? I already learned from experience that dair will usually fail against on-stage DK.

 

[SixSaw]

The Match up that always gets me is Game and Watch. Maybe it is just me but I can never approach him! When I try approaching from above I get the parachute and when I approach on the ground I get the bacon and chairs. Any advice on this match up?

You definitely want to take a more defensive, bait-punish approach vs G&W. His big lasting hitboxes make it easy for him to punish you hard for over-committing, so don't. Pretty much nothing G&W does is safe on shield (except bacon. Don't shield bacon), so bait things and shield-grab him. Grab a lot in general (that includes biting from the air) since G&W has a pretty nasty crouch cancel game. G&W's recovery is good, but very hard to sweetspot with, so use that to your advantage when edgeguarding him.

 

[SixSaw]

So I recently learned first-hand that Fox can in fact waveshine infinte Wario...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

That'll LEARN you.

 

[DMG]

Better SDI that **** good

 

[Nausicaa]

Dash Attack is really good vs characters with better dash dances, like Fox.

Delish.
So delish.

 

[Jreed420]

Dude how is everyone handling mk matchup I find myself scraping just barely beating him through like some dair back chomp throw upair shenanigans he is just so hard to get into sometimes if u know why I mean. Any advice on how to get a more direct approach rather than bait and punish?

 

[Lawn Chair]

Dude how is everyone handling mk matchup I find myself scraping just barely beating him through like some dair back chomp throw upair shenanigans he is just so hard to get into sometimes if u know why I mean. Any advice on how to get a more direct approach rather than bait and punish?

I played you at the tourney we went too couple of habits I picked up on

1. You went for dair way too much especially on my shield you could have grabbed or used pressured waiting for me to get out it somehow
2. Howard is really good on being unpredictable with his side-b mix ups and punishes grabs really hard ( downthrow side-b and upthrow into uair )
3. I think you use waff way too much comparing hits and misses you missed a lot more than hits

Other than that you were a tough fight I can't wait to play you again, thanks again for the props about my Metaknight really makes me want to get even better

 

[Jreed420]

I played you at the tourney we went too couple of habits I picked up on

1. You went for dair way too much especially on my shield you could have grabbed or used pressured waiting for me to get out it somehow
2. Howard is really good on being unpredictable with his side-b mix ups and punishes grabs really hard ( downthrow side-b and upthrow into uair )
3. I think you use waff way too much comparing hits and misses you missed a lot more than hits

Other than that you were a tough fight I can't wait to play you again, thanks again for the props about my Metaknight really makes me want to get even better

Thank you for the advice ive been practicing a lot since believe it or not got a few new tricks for next tourney

 

[Whoami40]

The newest match up I am having issues with is Link. He keeps me out with all of his boomerangs, bombs, and arrows. Then if I manage to get in he beats my range with his sword. Any advice on this match up?

 

[Lawn Chair]

I think that your side-b clanks with arrows and boomerangs

 

[SixSaw]

The only advantage of clanking boomerang with sideb is avoiding the initial damage in some hypothetical worst-case scenario. More than likely Link will still get a followup if he was in position for one in the first place due to the hitlag.

You must accept that Link is OP and you're gonna have to respect the 'rang.

 

[A6stringthing (A6ST)]

Why haven't I looked into this thread sooner? I had always wondered why my Wario always get wrecked by Marth. Anyone know anything about a Wario/Ganondorf match up?

 

[SixSaw]

Ganon is pretty free to Wario imo (moreso than he is to most other chars lol).

His slow air speed and movement in general mean you can easily stay right up in his face and punish anything he does. Ganon gets combo'd really hard due to his weight and is pretty easily edgeguarded/gimped, so as long as you're mindful of the range of his fair and other big attacks and don't approach recklessly, you don't have much to worry about.

 

[\Apples]

Use your aerial mobility to keep distance. Especially from his fair and uair. Tell us more about what problems you've been having in a particular matchup, it'd be easier for us to target where you may be struggling. Help us help you.

That goes for everyone here, rather than bring up a matchup by asking "what do you guys think about X matchup?" Do that, but continue by outlining where you struggle against that character that way the information shared in this thread stays less redundant overall.

 

[A6stringthing (A6ST)]

Thank you guys so much! I wasn't really expecting such quick replies! Now I know what Wario's Strengths are, one last question, is there a textbook Wario playstyle, or is that still being developed?

 

[Lawn Chair]

Play Wario like Jiggly puff, mix up approaches with tomahawk grabs and rest (side-b) to punish

 

[SixSaw]

is there a textbook Wario playstyle, or is that still being developed?

No. One of the exciting things about playing Wario, and PM in general, is that there isn't one "right" way to do things yet (although what Strong Bad does is generally more right than most). You have a lot of freedom to get creative and make the character your own.

 

[A6stringthing (A6ST)]

No. One of the exciting things about playing Wario, and PM in general, is that there isn't one "right" way to do things yet (although what Strong Bad does is generally more right than most). You have a lot of freedom to get creative and make the character your own.

Oh, I played some Wario today, made better use of his areial game, played with better spacing and used side b as a frame trap when my opponents tried to recover or run away. I just watched a video of strong bad playing wario. How does he use bite so well? I can't seem to incorporate it into my playstyle. Haha

 

[\Apples]

Rising through platforms with bite is great when they're teching. Also any time you can bait their shield, it's the trump.

 

[SixSaw]

I faced a MK player for the first time ever yesterday.

Holy ****.

I thought the Marth MU was hard, but this feels character-switch worthy. Like MK can just rush Wario down with transcendent aerials and there's nothing he can do about it.

 

[victra♥]

can't you cc most of mk's moves?

 

[DMG]

^

CC works against a lot of MK moves, and forces him to grab more (not that huge of an issue admittedly, since he's pretty dang good at getting a grab too)

 

[Lawn Chair]

If you space nair correctly; CCing is futile. Punishing with CC followup, it does not work you have to fight MetaKnight