Was sonic's recovery nerf for the better?

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I meant what I said about recovering with no Double Jump I think it is a 90% chance you will die like you sweetspot but you have to be frame perfect or you can do move slightly back and slightly forward (Jeff dip,Falcon Players do it ) besides that it is a 1000000000000000% of losing a stock

 

[shores]

It is possible to uncurl a side b by pulling backwards on the control stick even when you have to no jump so it isn't an instant SD everytime. A down B, however, is always death without a double jump. Not that using a Side B without a double jump is practical, it's better to homing attack repeatedly back until you get onstage.

At first you blew my mind by telling me this, I thought you had rid me of accidental SD's forever.... and then i tried this out in practice. Sorry to say you don't uncurl and after the ball animation there is a considerable amount of time afterwards where you can't act without jump cancelling the side B. A side B is an instant SD without jumps.

 

[shores]

It is possible to uncurl a side b by pulling backwards on the control stick even when you have to no jump so it isn't an instant SD everytime. A down B, however, is always death without a double jump. Not that using a Side B without a double jump is practical, it's better to homing attack repeatedly back until you get onstage.

At first you blew my mind by telling me this, I thought you had rid me of accidental SD's forever.... and then i tried this out in practice. Sorry to say you don't uncurl and after the ball animation there is a considerable amount of time afterwards where you can't act without jump cancelling the side B. A side B is an instant SD without jumps.

 

[Solharath]

At first you blew my mind by telling me this, I thought you had rid me of accidental SD's forever.... and then i tried this out in practice. Sorry to say you don't uncurl and after the ball animation there is a considerable amount of time afterwards where you can't act without jump cancelling the side B. A side B is an instant SD without jumps.

It's a bit better, but not mind-blowing. Just remember the moment Sonic uncurls, start pressing forward again to regain some horizontal distance.

 

[Star ☆]

Precisely why I said it's unpractical. It'll only be useful if you're up very high, and even then other options are better.

 

[Solharath]

Precisely why I said it's unpractical. It'll only be useful if you're up very high, and even then other options are better.

Lllllike what? If you say homing attack/blast attack, your usually opponents aren't even close to the level of skill you're going to run in to down the line. HA/BA has hella lag after using it, and some opponents will use the fact you lock on to make sure to finish you off completely. Fox will Bair/Nair/USmash, Falco will drill, Marth will dair, Falcon will knee/nair, Sheik gets the slaps, Zelda the kick/Dsmash/Nayrus.... From far away, it can help, but if you want to get better you have to make use of every tool to keep your opponent guessing. SideB is dangerous, but you retain the ability to weave, where as a non-locked HA or a BA will leave Sonic immobile for frames upon frames.

 

[Star ☆]

Lllllike what? If you say homing attack/blast attack, your usually opponents aren't even close to the level of skill you're going to run in to down the line. HA/BA has hella lag after using it, and some opponents will use the fact you lock on to make sure to finish you off completely. Fox will Bair/Nair/USmash, Falco will drill, Marth will dair, Falcon will knee/nair, Sheik gets the slaps, Zelda the kick/Dsmash/Nayrus.... From far away, it can help, but if you want to get better you have to make use of every tool to keep your opponent guessing. SideB is dangerous, but you retain the ability to weave, where as a non-locked HA or a BA will leave Sonic immobile for frames upon frames.

I mean it's impractical to Side B if you don't have any double jumps left unless you're up high or low down but want to risk SDing. Yeah, I know that Side B is a great tool to keep Sonic's recovery from being predictable. And I mix it up all the time between the Down B, Side B, Homing Attack etc. Don't get me wrong.

 

[Solharath]

I mean it's impractical to Side B if you don't have any double jumps left unless you're up high or low down but want to risk SDing. Yeah, I know that Side B is a great tool to keep Sonic's recovery from being predictable. And I mix it up all the time between the Down B, Side B, Homing Attack etc. Don't get me wrong.

Iiii'm talking as an alternative to Blast Attack when you're double jump is already gone. I am specifically talking about the thing you're calling impractical. Blast Attack/Homing Attack is a mixup at best at high level play, or against certain characters, but if you're high enough to start using that strategy, you're better off using sideB first and pulling back to uncurl to get the distance and keep your ability to weave, because Sonic is a sitting duck out there if you try anything else against skilled opponents.

 

[Star ☆]

Iiii'm talking as an alternative to Blast Attack when you're double jump is already gone. I am specifically the thing you're calling impractical. Blast Attack/Homing Attack is a mixup at best at high level player, or against certain characters, but if you're high enough to start using that strategy, you're better off using sideB first and pulling back to uncurl to get the distance and keep your ability to weave, because Sonic is a sitting duck out there if you try anything else against skilled opponents.

Uh huh, I occasionally use it when I'm up high but sometimes (depending on the character) I feel like it's a little unsafe. To each their own though.

 

[mtmaster]

I still can't decide, I really don't think his recovery nerf makes him a viable character anylonger. True there were plenty of nerfs that effectively destroyed a single meta-game (don't quite remember, I think it was side B into Fair spike KO, but I don't recall), however, his side B has extremely poor vertical recovery unless he's above the stage. His Up B is already extremely easy to edge-guard and has very limited vertical recovery, so why nerf his only viable vertical recovery option? It no longer jumps upward to give slight horizontal gain to recover onto the map. True it was too effective, but it was nerfed very harshly, almost unusable in many situations (since you can't Up B into Side B). Does anyone agree with this nerf?

Sonic's up+b is a little nerfed, but his recovery overall is nowhere near as bad as you say. In fact Sonic has some of the best recovery options in the game. From personal experience as well as watching other Sonic players play it seems to be kinda hard to actually stop Sonic from successfully recovering to me, unless you can go out there yourself and prevent it and recover yourself, or unless you have some pretty good aim with characters like Link or Falco (just a personal view on the matter).

You think Sonic's recovery is bad, I'd argue that Toon Link's is way worse.