Weekly Move Discussion [Week 20~ Up Smash]

[Rockin]

The only possible con is that there's limited use you can probably do with it.

So, which move shall we talk about now?

 

[Airgemini]

The only possible con is that there's limited use you can probably do with it.

So, which move shall we talk about now?

Have to wait until Thursday .
Although I was kinda expecting a bit more from these boards about her Utilt >__>.

 

[Silent_Rain]

What I like to do is, Dair twice at low percentages, then another aerial, usually up-air, land and finish with up-tilt and usually does like 50% in total.

 

[Morrigan]

What I like to do is, Dair twice at low percentages, then another aerial, usually up-air, land and finish with up-tilt and usually does like 50% in total.

That could work against someone really..not smart lol, it's escapable

 

[TimeSmash]

Does anyone know if Utilt outprioritizes Glide Attacks (Pit, Charizard, Meta-Knight)? Although it's really situational, since most opponents would probably aim it more towards your feet, or you could just move away...but thanks to Dekuu's chart, depending on how close the gliding attacker is, you could outprioritize them and possibly KO (depending on weight and Stale Move Decay).

 

[deepseadiva]

How about a FULL list testing out which dairs the utilt beats? I was wondering about Olimar's yellow Pikmin...

 

[tpyo]

I think it would be useful if someone posted frame data on the utilt? I know it has "no lag" but it would still be nice to know startup time, cooldown time, and total number of frames. I have no clue how someone would go about doing that though, but a lot of characters seems to have frame data on all their moves, there must be some method

 

[exidid]

How about a FULL list testing out which dairs the utilt beats? I was wondering about Olimar's yellow Pikmin...

Every attack outprioritizes Pikmin (except on Olimar's uair). You just have to hit the Pikemin before it hits you.

 

[TigerWoods]

How about a FULL list testing out which dairs the utilt beats? I was wondering about Olimar's yellow Pikmin...

Haha on my independent testing utilt really does out prioritize every dair and special move. Now the timing is rather dificult sometimes =/ (maby its because i am an idiot or I am bad at timing with myself(2 controlers one person!)

Don't try it Kirby Stone, a falling Snake C4, and ceartain projectiles (no complete list).

Er Utilt and projectiles (like a droped nikita missile, samus bomb). What happens? Its too fast for me to test myself.

 

[Takumaru]

Edit: Floating and dropping is definitely faster. I really have to apply that to my game now lol.

I just want to hit on this really fast: Floating on the ground and immediately canceling lets peach use just about any attack out of a dash faster than canceling her dash with a shield. Glad someone else has noticed it because I got *****ed at when I first brought it up when brawl was released.


As for the utilt, it has a similar problem that Zamus' utilt has. Fast start up but if someone avoids it they can punish it quite easily. It's not an attack you want to whiff because it leaves you at a disadvantage.

 

[Airgemini]

Oh come on guys, I know you have more opinios/facts about Peach's Utilt! Imagine if you were completely new to Peach and didnt know a thing about her Utilt, tell people who MIGHT be new to Peach what you would want to know yourself.
This discussion will end on Thursday, I should pick a more interesting move so hopefully it might get more people to talk >_>.

 

[exidid]

I think we should change the move as soon as there is nothing more to say. We should change it right now for example.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hmm...how did I miss this? Nice thread airge ^^

Peach's Up Tilt is pretty godly imo. It's got very bizzare hitboxes, stops a ton of moves (even if it doesn't outprioritze them, it's range will get them first) and can be used to finish off series of combos. It comes out pretty much instantly and the best thing is that no one expects it. They always expect an Up Smash.

Whilst the Up Tilt certainly isn't a good killer (you need to have it fresh and even then have your opponent at a fairly high percents), it's excellent for throwing someone off guard and sending them flying. The majority (probably all) of characters Dair approaches are completly stopped by this which a lot of characters make a healthy use of

Simply put, it's an excellent move and should be used instead of Up Smash in some cases. I don't know whether it outprioritzes all characters Dairs but I'm reasonably confindent that it outranges them, meaning that it will get the hit in first. You have to really learn how to use Up Tilt though because if used incorrectly, it can be somewhat punishable. And it's never nice to miss time it and get Link's Dair in your face


Edit: I agree with exidid, most of what needs to be said has been said. Let's move onto another move

 

[Peachkid]

i <3 utilt XD

 

[Takumaru]

Oh come on guys, I know you have more opinios/facts about Peach's Utilt! Imagine if you were completely new to Peach and didnt know a thing about her Utilt, tell people who MIGHT be new to Peach what you would want to know yourself.
This discussion will end on Thursday, I should pick a more interesting move so hopefully it might get more people to talk >_>.

I dunno... there's only so much you can say about a single move. IMO a week is a bit much for a discussion of a single move because after a few posts you mostly have people repeating themselves. We might aswell go until we have a summary of the uses and weakness of the move then discuss the next one.

U tilt is easy to summarize and it's been stated more than once.
Pros:
Good Range
Good Priority
Fast
Flashy hearts (the biggest reason to use this)

Cons:
Horrid horizontal range
Doesn't KO until much higher percentages

Uses:
Stopping aerial approaches
Finishing Combos
Poking through platforms
Lol hearts what more do you need?

Really... what more are you wanting out of this? I'm not trying to be on a downer on the thread. I think it's a good idea but don't expect an essay on most of her moves.

 

[BentoBox]

U-tilt is sexy after d-throws if they don't DI away (in which case f-tilt does the trick at lower %s).

Discuss U-smash afterwards please :D. I even use d-tilt more often than I use u-smash D: (<never). And yet, it supposedly is godly, so yeah, enlighten me!

 

[Airgemini]

Okay people, this week its Peach's Down Smash. I'll contribute later, I have to get ready for school =p.

 

[TigerWoods]

I'll start out with stating the obvious!!

Pros:

-Decently fast startup
-Long Duration(so if you start it and THEN your oponent walks into you XD)
-Decent Range
-Shieldpokes bigger characters
-Can eat shields
-Racks up a bit of damage if more than one hit-hit
-Peach ducks so ceartain projectiles miss if your using it
-Good Priority (will clank with a lot of smashes)
-Good "get off me move"
-It can stage-spike at the ledge
-Can set up into other moves
-It is spinny...I like spinny moves


Cons:

-It cant KO.... ever... the knockback is too low
-At higher percents it will only hit once
-Even at lower percents it sometimes only hits once
-If you whiff it you might get punsihed(most likely by a quick aerial of some sort to the face)

Other tidbit's of information and other thoughts:

-If the move conects it lasts much longer than if it doesn't (much like Zelda's Smashes).
-It can stage spike on the ledge.
-It clanks ALOT with projectiles and other moves etc.
-Against characters that are shielding all 4 hits should hit the shield. Big characters such as Bowser will most likely be shield poked as the shield dwindles.
-Even if only one hit conects, its enough to throw the oponent a safe distance
-It hits four times; The first and third hits launch the oponents backwards, while the 2nd and fourth hits launch them forward.

 

[Zen Basis]

There's better things to do, but I do enjoy spotdodging then following up with a dsmash occasionally and as with most d-smashes, it deals with people who roll often.

 

[chandy]

The d - smash does have a good range but I don't use it often becoz it's way too weak

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Good move to use when you're behind someone and they shielded your attack. Also very good against Dedede, knocks him out of shield almost every time.

Oh, you can stage spike with the downsmash as you could in Melee, it's just trickier due to auto sweetspots. The spacing is just like it was in Melee, right above them while they are holding the ledge and downsmash, they'll get stage spiked and most characters will lose a stock. Works very well in teams.

Downsmash also puts everyone in a position to get down aired if they get by it. I like to downsmash --> short hop down air.

 

[Morrigan]

Down smash is AWESOME, it can rack upto 70% damage, it traps people in it, has awesome knockback, kills at 90%..
OH WAIT

lol, but still, it has its uses. When they shield/roll your attacks you can punish them with Dsmash. Actually that's the only thing I use it for. I barely use it, and I need to learn how to use it more.
It's like I'm playing and forget that move exists, and when it comes to mind, I use it just to refresh other moves (just like jabbing).

I find it more useful for team battles than 1 on 1s.


Oh, and it's great when you're fighting tall characters that can get hit with it through platforms. (battlefield)

 

[Peachkid]

Although nerfed, the downsmash is a excellent move, it has great priority, virtually no lag, and is a nice shield breaker move. it lost alot of its knockback and damage but that if taken into certain circumstances can be a blessing in disguise, cause you could could follow up with almost any other move in peach's arsenal.

but i dont know about this but it seems like it has alittle more range under her now, but idk thats just me.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Down Smash has got a lot of stick because of it's rather nasty power nerf but it's still a great move to throw people off guard or to stop people rolling around all the time. If you're on it, it's pretty much impossible to avoid as spot dodging won't work because it last's a fair while and if you try sheilding it, it eventually hits the part not protected by the characters sheild. A very underrated move that is still good

 

[PKNintendo]

I love this move in Brawl. It was great in Melee, but it's still good in Brawl. Fast, good damage, and has some nice priority.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Rickerdy - people can spot dodge it, it just has to be timed right.

 

[Airgemini]

Ah the Dsmash, one of Peach's biggest changes/nerfs.

Contrary to popular belief when the game was first released, Peach's Dsmash DOES NOT SUCK!

Anyways the Dsmash is still IMO one of Peach's greatest moves, its probably my... third most spammed move. It starts up pretty fast and is a multihit. Its great against sheilds and even better it grants Peach a somewhat spike against edges (although this is probably situational). I mainly use this move when I'm trying to refresh my other moves that I've previously used. 21% is a pretty decent amount for an uncharged Dsmash if all hits connect. And like TW said its attacking animation is longer than its usual one (like Zelda's F and Usmash), it has okay priority, it'll clank with most moves most of the time.

However it does has some disadvantages. It is no where near as good as Melee, it cannot for the life of it kill for ****! It can be DI'ed out of, and its knockback is pretty lacking.

All in all I believe this is still a great move, and I still use it despite its nerfs.

Also, nice to see more activity in this thread. I tried to pick a move that would probably keep this thread alive lol.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Rickerdy - people can spot dodge it, it just has to be timed right.

Oh. Woops. Darn it

I agree with airge that it is not a sucky move that everyone thinks it is. It's certainly not a KO move anymore (which is rather sad though) but still a good move that can actually rack up a bit of damage if used on someone at very very low percents

 

[Morrigan]

It's just that its weaknesses surpasses any other move's advantages, so I barely use the Dsmash. Even the jab is extremely better.

 

[.:~*Momo*~:.]

Yeah when people first played the game they made it sound like Peach's downsmash was one of the most useless moves in the whole game. Of course that was just because it was nerfed pretty badly, still though it's a pretty useful move that I find myself using more than I originally thought when I first heard how badly nerfed it was.
(I thought that'd I'd use it like once every 5 matches. ^^; )

 

[Ex Nihilo]

It's just that its weaknesses surpasses any other move's advantages, so I barely use the Dsmash. Even the jab is extremely better.

I guess it's just a matter of preference... I use it rather liberaly. I know this has been said by EP but its a great combo starter for dair!



Side note: I am not a noob or new to the boards. In fact I am TigerWood's twin sister.... and I've been reading stuff and posting on his account for awhile XD. I just finally decided to make my own account and stuff.....

 

[tpyo]

Yeah, I definitely like dsmash to punish rollers more than anything else (and since I usually play online, with timing things being so much more difficult, the longer the hitbox lasts, the better!), and I also find that it's a very nice setup for punishing your opponent's next step. For example, a friend of mine will always, ALWAYS roll behind me after being hit by the dsmash, making a very nice setup for my semi-charged fsmash, or a dair at lower percentages. Of course he's probably taking the worst of all his possible options, but I just feel like after the dsmash's hits connect, that is when my opponent is most punishable.

I was also wondering if there's some kind of trick to getting all the hits of it to connect? Is it based on how close the opponent is? Behind or in front? Something harder to plan in advance? I'm very rarely getting more than 1 or 2 hits from this

 

[BurtonEarny]

Realy I only use it to punish rollers... other than that it seems like there are better options to use. I'm probably wrong I just dont use it. Its a good for damage, I just dont use it very often.

btw. arigemini, I dont think the thread was going to die, but after about everything about a move has been discussed, the thread will slow down. This is a good thread... props

 

[Airgemini]

I was also wondering if there's some kind of trick to getting all the hits of it to connect? Is it based on how close the opponent is? Behind or in front? Something harder to plan in advance? I'm very rarely getting more than 1 or 2 hits from this

Try using it when you're on a platform and the opponents body is inside you, you should get more hits that way. Also against heavier characters like Bowser chances are you'll get mroe hits.

btw. arigemini, I dont think the thread was going to die, but after about everything about a move has been discussed, the thread will slow down. This is a good thread... props

Thanks.

 

[TigerWoods]

Well since the first and 3rd hits knock your oponent back and the 2nd and fourth hits knock them forward.... you kind of need to have enough knockback without going over to move from one hitbox too another... It really is no use to try to get them all in... but a good 2 hitter still hits for 15....as much as youd get out of a peachbomber

 

[Excel_Zero]

Good when Peach is on top of a platform and ppl approach you from below. Also good for getting foes out of you, as somebody else mentioned before. I don't use it so much since it's punishable.

 

[deepseadiva]

Although nerfed...

Down Smash has got a lot of stick because of it's rather nasty power nerf...

Ah the Dsmash, one of Peach's biggest changes/nerfs.

Yeah when people first played the game they made it sound like Peach's downsmash was one of the most useless moves in the whole game. Of course that was just because it was nerfed pretty badly...

I think if we can all move past the fact that Melee's moveset was different (and I know a lot of you have), and we can actually start talking about the Brawl dmash in it's own light - instead of as a shadow of what used to be - this discussion would be more productive.

It's just that its weaknesses surpasses any other move's advantages, so I barely use the Dsmash. Even the jab is extremely better.

What are the dsmash's weaknesses?

 

[TimeSmash]

Like Momo, I use DSmash much more than I thought I would. It's not terrible by any means, and is always nice for a surprise. Like Peachkid said, the low knockback can be good because you can follow up with something else at certain points.

Like any multi-hit move though, it can be DI'ed out of, so you can be outprioritized by a quicker high-priority attack. I think I use DSmash at inopportune points occasionally. I might miss my target completely if I was being to agressive, and if the move fully misses it can be punished well by skilled players. I myself need to learn more about DSmash and when to properly use it.

EDIT: Took out the line about Melee. Gotta move on.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

I think if we can all move past the fact that Melee's moveset was different (and I know a lot of you have), and we can actually start talking about the Brawl dmash in it's own light - instead of as a shadow of what used to be - this discussion would be more productive.



What are the dsmash's weaknesses?

If you mess up and the move doesnt conect, your probably going to get slaped with Marth's Fair etc. You really cant punish dsmash with a charge smash though(maby unless your wolf), the dsmash is still pretty decently fast.

As excel and tw said I think it's more of a fast "LEAVE ME ALONE" move rather than an offensive one. I think its only offensive use is to shield pressure. I know it sets up into combos(like dair as someone said) but I doubt your going to be landing it offensively much.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

You know you can downsmash to dodge falco's lasers on the gruond LOL I just figured this out. At least I did it, maybe his laser wasn't a totally grounded laser, it was the double laser that falcos usually do, that comes out of his chest. Could this move possibly duck through lots of attacks and projectiles? It DOES send her lower than a crouch.